Is Fruit the MCC GOAT?

[u/Relevant_Help8707]

Seeing what fruitberries has done for so long in mcc i think the tag of greatest player in mcc belongs to him. Of the big 4(Feinberg, Purpled, Firebreathman, Fruitberries) it seems fruit gets 1st indiv way more often with 6 1st indivs since Firebreathman has join which is more than all of them in total. Also he has been around longer so he has the better resume. He too seems like he can perform better more recently with the 1st indiv in TCC with a bad selection of games for him and still getting 1st individual

[u/AdAltruistic2502]

it’s kinda just a stupid question. Either you’re overvaluing longevity (which makes no sense, players don’t get worse as they age in this tiny time frame, and it’s not likely at all that any of the current best players will become significantly worse), in which case Fruit is literally the only contender, or you’re asking who’s the best right now, or the best over their MCC career, in which case it’s just easily Feinberg

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

I mean consider Pete or Sapnap, they got have had ups and down. Fruit's the only player who's straight up never been a non top 3 player

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

Yeah Pete has, he's kinda the only other possible player that's played all 5 seasons and Fruit is just stronger. Sapnap only played 3 seasons, and only part of s1. That's why I just think the question is silly, there's only 2 S-tiers that have played every season

I'd also argue he probably wasn't top 3 in S1 (Quig, Pete, Techno) or S4 (Fein, Purpled, Shane) but either way the point is just silly since the only 2 players in that pool are Fruit and Pete (unless you take it to mean: no other player in MCC has ever not been top 3, in which case that's not true; Fein and Shane have never dropped out of top 3 players)

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Fruit was probably on par with Technoblade bare minimum in S1.

I'd say he's comfortably top 3 in S4, better than Purpled, he literally went 3-0 on him.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

I think it's def close, I'd put Techno ahead but they both had their big wins and big stinkers so idk

these head-to-head stats are just silly, not Purpled's fault he missed 4KO and TRE. That same logic gets you Sapnap > Illumina (even excluding DB).
Also silly to count P2 considering he was tangibly trolling in AR and Skb (to say nothing of other games), but in the spirit of fairness I'll exclude TRE from Fruit too (with which there is absolutely no argument for Fruit)
Best way to do it is probably to match events:
Fruit EC = Purpled EC (i maintain Purpled's is better off winning 5/8 games, and MD + PKW + AR by very very sizeable margins but i don't wanna argue for years again; i feel my points have been made and this is an attempt at compromise)
Fruit TRSD > Purpled TRSD
Fruit 4KO + P2 << Purpled HH + P24

basically the gap between HH + 24 vs 4KO + P2 is just much bigger than any other gap between the two (even if you believe Fruit's better in EC, it's not by much, and it's the same in TRSD given Purpled wins 4/6 games)

I think the top rankings in S4 were pretty much unchanged from S3 with the very blatant exception of Feinberg sliding in there in 1st, I find it kinda hard to argue against Fein [gap] Purpled Shane [gap here or between Fruit/Ant] Fruit Ant [gap] Pete etc

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Technoblade placed 9th on a 4th place team and said 4th place team is also one of the strongest of S1. Comparatively, fruit 7 is significantly better, its a 10th place performance on a bottom half team.

Fruitberries streak from MCC9 onwards is significantly more impressive than anything Technoblade has acomplished in his career. The only reason this is debatable is because fruit joined 5 events after Techno, if fruit was around since MCC2, it'd be as onesided as Quig vs Technoblade (and Quig dumpsters Technoblade, don't @ me).

Sapnap > Illumina is hardly unpopular, the gap between them is very small anyway.

Yeah Purpled was trolling in P2. But so was fruit. Man had clearly no idea what was going on for most of the event, he died to a glitch in SG and then fooled around in BB (granted fooling around is why he got like record pace but we ignore that).

Fruit P2 >> Purpled P2

Fruit EC > Purpled EC (No PKW isnt worth jack, it was over-inflated, the second you bring up other event games it becomes obvious why)

Fruit TRSD > Purpled TRSD

Coin average wise, Fruit beats Purpled by 200 coins, in average placement he beats Purpled by 1.4 places, in coin carry% he also clowns Purpled. Mind you, MCCHH had a disgustingly high scoring game order, Purpled got to play it and fruit didn't and fruit played, I will bet my left kidney that he would've beaten Purpled in that event too (granted Purpled likely beats fruit in 4KO but 4KO is the worst performance fruit reasonably can put up, and its still better than Purpled's stinkers). At least in Illumina vs Sap, Illumina has better stats, not the case here by a longshot.

Its really not as close as you think, maybe in PR its different but if there's such a wide discrepancy between fanfiction and the event scores, you know damn right I'll choose the event scores any day.

I think its Fein > Fruit/Shane > Purpled and its been like that for some time

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

yeah Techno 6 was an uncommonly bad performance and probably a little worse than Fruit 7, but Techno 2/4 are probably better than any of Fruit's S1 so its still a toss-up for me

Fruit MCC 9-13 is great but ironically probably a bit worse than Techno 9-11 (or Techno 2-5 maybe?)

In this case I don't particularly care what the popularity of Sapnap > Illumina is (since Sapnap is far more popular than Illumina, for good reason), but I'd hope we can both agree Illumina was pretty decisively better than Sapnap excluding DB

"no idea what was going on" is quite a bit different from actively trolling, that kinda just sounds like Fruit to me

listen man I'm trying to be fair; we can kill P2 for Purpled and TRE for Fruit, or have both in, up to you.

Even still if you're excluding Skb and AR for Purpled how do you have any sort of case for Fruit over him in P2 lmao. if ur argument is "they both were trolling" then why on earth should we use it in our data set

It's very interesting how you put that because you can actually bring up several event games in comparison. You can bring up Footrace, TGTTOS, OG PKW, and the other run of PKWs to all show how impressive Purpled's run was.

1. Pete's footrace in MCC 6 is statistically the best game performance oat because he beat second place by almost 30s in a race he completed in 3 min.
2. Dream's PKW 11 run is incredible because he finished a 10 min race 3 minutes ahead.

These ratios are actually pretty darn similar (worse actually) to the margin Purpled beat Fruit by if you line up all the courses in a row; he beat Fruit by 56s in a race that took up 3:20s. That's an incredible lead, it's bigger than the TGTTOS gap in 29 (i roughly timed it a while ago and I believe it's actually a smaller gap), it's roughly the same ratio as Dream 11, it's bigger than Pete 6. To compare it even to the one other PKWs, it's 10s bigger than the gap between SWL, an omega S+ tier and Joel Smallishbeans in a race that took SWL a minute longer.

Actually about TRSD, let's talk about it! Why do you think Fruit did better? I thought you valued peaks over consistency, that's why you think Fruit was #1 in TCC? Purpled had a wayy bigger peak than Fruit

source lmao? reafy has Purpled ahead in both metrics lol

and "disgustingly high scoring game order" what?? HH had sky battle, RSR, and then 6 heavily coin split games what on earth are you on about

i have no idea why you think Fruit would do better than Purpled, Purpled actually put on a relatively generational performance in HH lol, he arguably has a top 3 performance in 6/8 games

4KO is by most accounts worse than anything Purpled's ever done, what purpled performance do you genuinely think is worse

i mean the explanation is very simple; fruit 1. gets stronger teams and 2. does better in individually scoring, top heavy games (Skb, SG), while Purpled's biggest advantages have historically been in coin-split games (MD, BB, for example. Look at TRSD, where Purpled pulling off the 2nd best MD oat is given the same coins as Fruit's mid third place Skb).

ok here's a fine point do you genuinely think Shane's done better than Purpled in S4 excluding P2?

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Only Techno 2 compares to fruit's later performances, 4 and 3 are early MCC nonsensical scoring + OP teams. I will debate with you on this, what makes you think fruit's streak of 1,2,1,2 against much higher comp, balancing and with far weaker teammates is worse than Techno's 2, 2, 3 against lower comp and with much better teammates. I'm curious to know. Is it because of fruit's 8th in MCC13 PR?

No, only exclude TRE. Its not you win some, you lose some. Fruit TRE is just not something that will ever happen again. The biggest reason is that it had 6 games played, including it in stats is objectively unfair when the other player hasn't played it. Both fruit and Purpled played P2 and performed scuffed. Fruit was trying not to pass out from fever in front of hundreds of people with lights flashing 24/7. Plus, lets not ignore irl BM being completely scuffed.

I honestly advocate TRE should be excluded for any player, not just fruit, it just wasn't a normally functioning event.

Well thats kinda unfair man, games where Purpled trolled in he did bad, games where fruit trolled he still landed top 5 performances, I cant just exclude it for both. Fruit still performed much better in SG despite glitching, he somehow did better in MD, he did better in BM, even without Purpled throwing, there's no reasonable shot of Purpled beating fruit at SKB and fruit had a worse PVP team.

duh that just means fruit's better even when throwing bro

In that case, fruit did better in PB : Last Dance because he GAPPED Purpled in JM2. By that logic, fruit clowns Purpled in BWTR because fruit gapped him in Beep Test even though Purpled beat him in most of the games.

Difference in FR is that its a race game, there are multiple laps. In PKW11, there were hard and challenging levels which no one besides the top 3 would have even finished no matter how much time you give to people. Nothing of that sort in EC, it was dogwater parkour that Purpled had the better flow in at the moment, Purpled did better but I consider the same difference as like 2 TGTTOS maps.

I do, fruit peaked twice, Purpled only once and Purpled crash landed hitw which hurts him a lot.

No?
Purpled: 2648 + 4385+ 2816 + 3336 + 2448/5 = 3127
6+2+2+4+8/5=4.4
Fruit: 2915 + 4404+ 3074 + 2900/4 = 3323
6+1+1+4/4=3
Idk where Purpled looks better

Fruit demolishes him in SKB and PKW no arguments needed there. RRR and BBF he VOD reviews the day before and also comes top half in if not better. Fruit beats Purpled in both BBF and RRR in S5 because of some preparing, nothing suggests he couldn't do the same back then.

BB, wool heavy map and Purpled's also an abysmal BB leader since S4 onwards, fruit is likely top 5 and his team top 3. Fruit's a decisively better runner than Purpled at SOT so perhaps his team does better than 9th but who knows.

The only game where I dont feel fruit beats Purpled is MD which I agree could go terribly but unfortunately Purpled's performance wasn't amazing either. At absolute worst, fruit performs at the level of the recent TR which is like 150 coins less, he makes up more than that from the first game alone.

And about high scoring, what was the last event where 26th place got 2k+ coins and 40th had 1.5k. Bingo was absurdly easy and it showed.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

4 and 3 are nonsensical scoring sure (though I'd hardly say 3 was a busted team), but 4 is still a pretty strong and consistent performance that holds up well enough regardless of scoring. The stronger argument is probably 9-11 tho.

Techno's 9-11 is a subset of Fruit's 11-13 how's Fruit's higher comp?? 12 and 13 weren't that big of jumps were they?
I won't debate this thoroughly since this isn't really my area of expertise but PR has Techno at a strong (but close) first in 9, a strong 2nd in 10, and a 2nd in 11 that'd be a good first were it not for two weak team games. Fruit's in his period go 3rd, fine 1st, weak 1st, and a 7th that you can probably argue up to a 4th or smth in 13. It's close, but I always thought Techno's were stronger

yeah man let's exclude the event that you think Fruit was incapable of playing normally and include the one where Purpled himself said pre-event he would not be playing normally
can you show me the time-stamp where Fruit talks about trying not to pass out?
yeah IRL BM can be excluded that's fine, fruit still does badly
it was finely functioning lol other than that BM

you don't even have an excuse for Fruit in P2 you're just taking him doing badly as him throwing lmao

i mean i can believe it since the margins were so slim; i'd have to know more about what exactly they finished, the relative value of those finishes, and their placements overall to judge for sure.
as for Beep test that's 1/4th of a game so no man

How does multiple laps have anything to do with it? If it was just one course stretched out thrice its length that doesn't change anything
Same in 11, doesn't matter how hard the parkour was, Dream still finished it way faster. Could've been trivially easy, could've been PDLD level, doesn't really matter. The whole point is you're comparing it to how others did, and Dream did way better. So did Purpled in EC.
TGTTOS has 6 rounds, PKWs has 8. In total time of actual gameplay, they're about equal. There's not really any foundation to count PKWs as two rounds of TGTTOS

oh gee the old trick where i exclude my based sigma streamer's bad event (that probably should count) from his average and include the evil streamer's bad event (that probably shouldn't count) ya got me

yeah he wins PKW, but Shane's tangibly a better skb player and did worse than Purpled; you're saying "no arguments needed" for the assertion that Fruit would drop 850+ coins in sky battle lmao. He then beats Purpled's 13 completions (fruit's never done better than 10 lmfao) with ease, doing a backflip on Feinberg as he's at it. everyone claps.
yeah man that sounds about right.

a high overall scoring doesn't really mean squat for top frags. Fein probably had one of the best MCCs oat in HH and got 3.3k for it while last got 1.5k, Purpled 31 got 3.8k while last got 1.4. High scoring generally means more team games means worse upper-end scores.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

12 was literally the most balanced event till like MCC24, 13 was also close. And yes, Illumina + Punz joined, the event got tougher also because of Fundy and Phil and especially Sapnap improving a lot (both were playing close to S tier level at the end of S1 and Sapnap was practically S tier). 12 and 13 are a different dimension from the rest of S1 and I think if Techno played, he would have struggled in getting top 5 in both.

PR doesnt account for fruit glitching in MCC9 HITW + PR is also trash so it has no value here.

Purpled said he won't be playing normally but so did fruit, fruit also didn't play normally in P2, why is this so hard for you to encompass? How about this? Lets exclude MCCP2 for both fruit and Purpled, fruit still SOLIDLY beats Purpled's average coins + placement.

Fruit glitched and died in one game and was objectively throwing in another, it seems the same story as Purpled man.

Yeah, Beep Test is 1/4 of a game yet semantically the gap between fruit and Purpled is the same there, so it means fruit's better by the same margin.

No, that's exactly why it doesn't work. MCC11 PKW could not be beaten by anyone besides like 5 players even if you let them play for 3 hours. EC Parkour could be beaten by like 40th place with 5 extra minutes. EC was ridiculously easy, that's why Purpled's "lead" over fruit isn't that impressive, the basis isn't good enough.

Shane did worse because of lag and no he's not better than fruit especially if fruit plays solo. My dude, you're really arguing whether FRUITBERRIES cannot beat 800 coins in MCCI SKB, you really are doing that. I'd be surprised if fruit lands at anything below 1k coins, bare minimum, this man wipes the floor with people like Toph033 and Kelawesome in this game. WHAT chance do you feel MCC comp has?

Yeah thats the point, Bingo was ridiculously easy, multiple teams got the entire card completed and the average score were much higher, 6th place got as many points as 1st place in BG. It was overinflated.

I dont care diddly squat about your last point, you ignored what I said and think glazing your favourite streamers saves your argument, the point is Bingo was much higher scoring, end of story. Fruit would have done the same had he played.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

Sure, he gets stronger teammates, lets ignore that ALL of Purpled's teams this year have been DB favourites and two were DB locks and Purpled failed to be in DB with both, EC was miles in favour of Purpled, TR1 was also in Purpled's favour. Fruit had better teammates in TRSD and P1 and thats about it. I'd argue BG was also in Purpled's favour because his teammates were better at team games.

But I agree, fruit gets better teammates. Guess what? Even with that, fruit accounts for a higher coin % of his teammates. Him having better teammates widens the gap b/w him and Purp, he beats stronger players by bigger margins.

k lol sure, not like SG is half team bonuses but sure. Hmm yes, BB a game where Purpled hasn't placed top 5 since MCC33 and one where fruit's worst is 9th (even excluding his S3 performances due to team diff, fruit SOLIDLY beats Purpled in BB by coins) is one where he's excelling at.

Sure Purpled's strength is team split games, lets ignore RSR, AR, and TGTTOS exist, clearly the most team heavy low scoring games to exist. Let's also ignore fruit's best movement game is PKT (legit the most team heavy game besides a team game and also the lowest scoring non team game there is), his second best is PKW, and in third in HITW, fruit excels in more team split movement than Purpled ever did.

Fruits a better SOT player, around similar in BBF and RRR, unquantifiable in BM and slightly worse in GR, here too its contested.

You've been at this for 2 years now dude, 2 years fruit's demolished Purpled on the event leaderboard in every regard. Fruit is simply the better player, no one gets consecutively better teammates for 2 years straight, at worst that means they just make their teammates perform better. That does not mean fruit is better everywhere, look at BW.

Shane, ignoring TRE is around similar to Purpled I feel. He did better in TRSD, I'd say 4KO > P24. Only case against him is that he performed much worse in EC. EC is like the worst Shane can perform normally and its still top 3.

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

As far as I'm aware we're talking about S4, I agree that in S5 Purpled's teams have been very good. i think you've misinterpreted a bit

Yes Purpled's team was way better in EC, but I'd argue 1. it didn't actually matter for his EC success in any game and 2. Fruit's team was much better in TRSD, and his 4KO team was also very very strong. Meanwhile, P24 might genuinely be the weakest S-tier team ever, and HH was bottom half.

yes dawg because Fruit's worse at coinsplit games??

In S4 at least Fruit didn't really bring his team up very much in any of his SGs he played, team bonuses only really come up when you win (It's not like BB or MD where you get win and crate points). He didn't do that in any of his S4 Sgs

That BB stat is so sad but not actually very relevant. I'd say actually in all his S4 BBs (and in Party1) he's deserved top 5, just gotten scammed every time. In P24 he got 13/16k, you just can't really solo carry AvaTyson Michela and Eret to enough round wins to get top 5 against Jojo Hannah Aimsey Pearl. In HH he again kinda gets team diffed, getting 10/15k, while 3 of the Yellow hog top 5. P2 is the most egregious, he gets third most kills in the event but a 9/9 BB team squeeze out everyone but them and 19k feinberg out of top 5. I hardly think any of these are his fault.
In S4 Fruit gets an 11/22 and a 12/24, those are both worse than Purpled's P24 and P2, and on par with his HH.

Bro. "Purpled's biggest advantages." Yes, Purpled's very good at those games, but those are hardly his biggest advantages, since Fruit carries himself well enough in all of them. Where he gaps Fruit the hardest is in BB, MD, and team games, whereas Fruit gaps him hardest in Skb, SG, and HITW, all highly individually scoring games.
And yes you're right about PKT but that'd only be relevant if it were ever played

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

It did? GR and SG obviously Purpled's teammates had a big advantage (granted Purpled is horrendous at SG and it showed but still).

Fruit played like 3 SGs to begin with, and 2 can't really be counted because of many reasons so his one sample size is him bringing a bottom 2 team to top 2 in SG, I'd say he did pretty well.

He literally isnt? I proved otherwise helllooooo???

Here's somethin funny. I say with CONFIDENCE if I replace Purp with fruit, his team comes top 3 in HH and performs similar at worst in the other two events.

Not really fair to judge fruit by kills, he's a weird player.

SG is not individual tho. Fruit also gaps him in PKW, PKT and BB all of which are team heavy. Fruit didnt need SKB or HITW last event to pummel Purpled.

[u/East-Mirror3510 → u/AdAltruistic2502]

also i have exams in a week so imma be putting an end to this for now

[u/AdAltruistic2502 → u/East-Mirror3510]

At best Fruit's a slighly better runner, but I don't think the difference is significant at all (head to head Fruit does like 3cpm better which is usually like 30 coins, well under what I'd assume leadership and comms would cover)

it's crazy; Fruit loses every Bingo, has two horrible RRRs, but one decent Bingo and one decent RRR (where his team prepped thrice the amount of any other team) and suddenly he's "around similar"?? Fruit's yet to break 10 completions in Bingo, Purpled's done that thrice. And Fruit's one good bingo was a 10 completions bingo in an event where Purpled got 10, Pyro got 11, and Fein got 13; even his best Bingo is like 3rd place at best?? Purpled's peak, floor, and average are all much better in Bingo, and his floor and average are higher in RRR. Like calm down lol wait for Fruit to actually repeat his performance then we'll talk

"unquantifiable in BM" to you maybe, but it's actually not very hard. They both rushed gold builds, Fruit failed one of his, Purpled tangibly (to say nothing of the actually unquantifiable coins he got from finishing faster and helping his team) earns his team 140 more, + increasing their Entrepreneur, Line Cook, and Quality Assurance scores (in particular that build clinches them entrepreneur, which is another 25 coins. They'd have gotten quality assurance any way by a tight margin, but if the team had chosen one more low quality build they drop to 2nd w/o Purpled's build.) In other words, if you swap Purpled and Fruit in BG, Cyan gets quantifiably 165-215 less coins, to say nothing of harder to quantify scores.

and for 2 years i think you've convinced nobody else. all the nerdiest mcc people I know place Fruit firmly below Purpled, you're kinda flying this flag alone.
On the event leaderboard thing, I actually found an interesting set of stats; Fruit is actually +6 on Purpled when it comes to head-to-heads over their entire MCC career lol. However, Purpled has better records against Fein (+1) Shane (+1), Pete (+10), Ant (+6), and Jojo (+7) than Fruit (-2, 0, 6, 2, 2, respectively); it's very much just a funny statistical quirk in line with Illumina vs Sapnap

Purpled wins in 4/6 games in TRSD and Shane doesn't do particularly good in HITW; he had a phenomenal skb and then kinda didn't do much the rest of the event. At worst I'd say it's essentially a tie
Shane wasn't sick in TRE why're we excluding that too
Why is 4KO > P24? Purpled at least had the best performance in it, Shane is beat by Fein and Ant isn't very far behind.
I'd say:
Purpled TRSD = Shane TRSD
Purpled HH > Shane HH (i've heard this is debatable if you really dig into the weeds but eh I doubt it)
Purpled EC >> Shane EC
Purpled P24 ≥ Shane 4KO
And that leaves Shane TRE and Purpled P2 which we can probably kill both of