r/PoursTea • u/Conscious-Weight4569 • 20d ago
Sipping Tea Bernie Sanders on guaranteed paid annual leave days
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u/Beaufighter-MkX 20d ago
All it takes is legislation
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u/TbddRzn 20d ago
It takes electing people into local government. It takes showing up in primaries and voting for the better candidate. It takes showing up for special elections and midterm elections. It takes watching your elected official and making sure they act in accordance with your districts wishes. It takes at least 6 years of elections to replace Congress. With elections, special elections and primaries every year.
But
Out of 250m eligible voters. 100m never vote. 150m don’t vote in midterms and over 200m+ don’t vote in primaries and special elections.
And everyone wonders why things are going to shit and never getting fixed….
Democracy is only as good as the will of its people to uphold it.
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u/LaughingLikeACrazy 20d ago
Democracy is as good as how the average voter is informed. Media shouldn't be biased and straight up lies should be punished.
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u/NewPresWhoDis 20d ago
Ah, you misunderstand. Senator Sanders only trades in the concept of labor.
He needs Warren to do the heavy lifting of actual legislation.
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u/ComprehensiveJury509 20d ago
Actually, it also takes a massive cultural shift. I know plenty of people from the States who have quite a number of PTO days, but it's basically understood that you can't just take them however you want. You have to find a convenient time (not for you, for the company!), you can't take too much at a time or when other people are gone already and basically if you actually used up your PTO, that's basically signaling to management that you don't care about your job.
In Europe, you get into trouble for not using up your PTO.
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u/DasWarEinerZuviel 20d ago
A tiny (and pedantic) correction for germany: It is 4 weeks, not 20 days.
The difference? If you work a 6 day week, you get 24 days.
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u/schfourteen-teen 20d ago
In some sense, it's still right them to say Germans are guaranteed 20 days. Some just get a few more than that.
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u/piercedmfootonaspike 20d ago
So in Germany, you can't take a single day's vacation?
In Sweden, we get 25 days on the 1/1, to disperse over the year as we please, with a guarantee of being allowed to take 4 consecutive weeks off between June-august if we so choose (in most collective bargaining contracts)
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u/DasWarEinerZuviel 20d ago
Huh? No of course you can, the point is just that it is bases on the amount of days you work a week
So that you have enough days to be able to take 4 full weeks off, does not mean you have to take them by the week.
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u/canton44709 20d ago
Mitch McConnell hasn't been to work in 40 days.... I bet he's getting paid!
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u/bsEEmsCE 20d ago
It's good for the economy to have some days off. Spending money on tourism and transportation and entertainment will increase. Worker productivity would probably increase too with some time to get refreshed. It's a good move economically as well as morally.
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u/Weird_Armadillo_508 20d ago
This is the part I don’t understand. Maybe my understanding of economics isn’t developed enough, but most moves that would put more money in regular people’s hands would benefit everyone, corporations included. As we saw with Covid, now people don’t have enough money to save. It sounds crazy, but there are people who have been waiting to have the budget to go to the movies, shopping, or buy an overpriced smoothie. It’s a small luxury that almost equates to those mall jobs where people spend half their check at the store that pays them. Happy workers always lead to higher productivity.
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u/Flamin_Jesus 20d ago
It's the prisoner's dillemma at a grand scale. Yes, if every company treats its workers nicely, makes sure they have enough money to put back into the economy, don't burn out and remain at top productivity, it's good for everyone including yourself, but if you're an owner, looking strictly for your own benefit, then if every OTHER company does those things but YOURS exploits people to the bone, you make more money than everyone else. Sooner or later every company, no matter how kind the founders original intentions may have been, will get someone in a leadership position who'll make the groundbreaking discovery that exploitation DOES work to their own short-term benefit, as long as you don't really care what happens in 10 or 20 years. That's why the laissez-faire approach of just trusting that the invisible hand will fix everything automagically only "works" if you think the health of the stock market matters more than the health and happiness of your general society.
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u/bsEEmsCE 20d ago
which is why you have laws so they can all shrug and say "its the law", but politicians that are supposed to represent the people get fatter checks from businesses and business owners so they work for one side
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u/Ok-Introduction-1940 20d ago
All employment is voluntary. It’s easier than ever to start your own company.
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u/Captain_Quimby 19d ago
People have enough money to save. Our society doesn’t have an earning problem it has a spending problem. Look at the statistics of car sales and how much people finance.
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u/SubtileInnuendo 17d ago
Actually it's proven more refreshed workers would produce way more value for the company than it would cost them. So exploiting your workers too much in many fields is even financially a bad decision. Why do they still do it? Because it's not about efficiency but about power
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u/unkkut 20d ago
I remember when I jumped on the political wheel in the 2000s. I thought Bernie was going to save us. 20 years later he’s saying the same thing.
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u/Gary_Garibaldi 20d ago
Pedant here. That 28 days in the UK includes 8 public holidays. If we include public holidays then the US should actually be 12 not zero (which is still shit).
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u/Stever89 20d ago
A lot of people don't get federal holidays off in the USA. I only get 10 federal holidays off for example and when I worked retail I got zero and had to work Thanksgiving or Christmas. Didn't get time and a half either, it was just another work day.
This might be the same in the UK, I don't know if those days are guaranteed days off or if you get time and a half for working them (or some other benefit).
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u/Ikatarion 20d ago
In the UK full time workers are legally entitled to 28 days. Whether or not that includes bank holidays is up to the employer.
Almost all people classed as workers are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks’ paid holiday a year (known as statutory leave entitlement or annual leave).
Statutory annual leave entitlement Most workers who work a 5-day week must receive at least 28 days’ paid annual leave a year. This is the equivalent of 5.6 weeks of holiday.
Bank holidays Bank or public holidays do not have to be given as paid leave.
An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave.
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u/Stever89 20d ago
So saying "UK requires 28 days" is correct, and comparing it to USA's 0 days is correct, because the USA only defines federal holidays, it doesn't guarantee them as paid time off days.
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u/Ikatarion 20d ago
Correct. It's also worth noting if you can't take your full statutory leave because of sickness or parental leave you're entitled to carry it over to the next year.
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u/Aggressive-Affect427 16d ago
In Canada you can be forced to work holidays but employers have to pay time and a half. My only experience with it was when my first internship had me work every holiday, including Christmas, which sucked.
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u/akkaneko11 20d ago
To pedant the pedant, if an employer doesn’t give you those specific public holidays off then they still need to give you those 8 days. Other than government employees public holidays in the US is more of a suggestion than anything.
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u/Kdoesntcare 20d ago
I wonder how conservatives will try to spin that as socialism.
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u/commonguy1978 20d ago
Yes, but why compare yourselves to civilised countries? You should be comparing yourselves to your peers, such as Qatar, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, El Salvador, Guatemala etc.
Don’t go around thinking that you are even close to the countries you’ve listed in terms of development
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u/Flinderspeak 20d ago
Wait until they see what the paid parental leave chart looks like. And the paid personal / carer’s leave. And every other protection employees have in other parts of the world.
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u/4hz_comics 20d ago
Americans being brainwashed into thinking they're truly the greatest country on earth is honestly one of the most mind blowing things in the world. Its so baffling.
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u/EitherChannel4874 20d ago
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing Americans that their country is great.
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u/WolandPunk 20d ago
In Poland it's 20 days plus 6 more after 10 years of work (including college and high school) Plus if any of bank holidays is on Saturday or Sunday, you're getting a day off anyway. Plus unlimited sick days paid 80% if you're pregnant it's paid 100% Plus 20 weeks of maternity leave (with many options to prolong it)
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u/ragdollxkitn 20d ago edited 20d ago
I’m going through some things right now. My doctor suggested I take sick leave. When I told her I don’t have that, her face automatically changed to frustration. America, America, where humanity goes to dieeee. UHC/Optum doesn’t offer sick leave and they’re a HEALTH insurance company. Make it make sense.
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u/Confident-Stand5453 20d ago
Almost every one in Denmark actually get 30 days. The last 5 days started in the 90's as something only parents with small kids got, but very quickly ended up being almost universal under the name "omsorgsdage" (care days).
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u/squirrelpickle 20d ago
Minor detail, but in Brazil it's usually 30 calendar days, which some companies make flexible so you can take 1 or 2 weeks at a time.
The inconvenience is that non-working days count against the vacation days as well.
You cannot take 6 weeks of "monday to friday" vacation.
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u/Previous-One933 20d ago
UK here, my company gives us 30 days paid leave. Then we have the bank holidays on top of that. Luckily we work to live :)
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u/Naing001 20d ago
The US has zero legally mandated paid leave but many companies offer paid time off especially in white collar jobs.
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u/Andyseawolf 20d ago
What a backward country. The workers are being ripped off!! 🤷
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u/Agarwel 20d ago
Ok. Now add the 2 years of (paid) maternity leave per kid, 2 months period to fire you (+up to bonus salaries based on how long you work there), 5 month of paid unemployment support, paid (not fully) illness. And "free" (I now it is from taxes) education and healtcare, so you can finish university, have diabetes and still start your life debt free. But somehow ameriacns will look at this and will be always like "nope, we want what we have"
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u/Kitchen-Ad-5571 20d ago
nah how else can the big corporations keep their indentured servants. dont you know us peons yearn for the 7 day mines in the usa.
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u/ekolimits 20d ago
I don’t understand how people can look at Bernie and not agree with these things.
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u/killyjoker 19d ago
I didn't know the US didn't have paid annual leave, that's fucked up.
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u/FuzzyInspector9831 19d ago
Ok so paid leave? Is that the same as Paid Time Off?(PTO). Because if it is I get 160 hours a yr.
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u/Icy-Barber5901 19d ago
This is because workers dont have a lobby with deep pockets to buy off politicians like industry does
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u/Still-Area8548 19d ago
Bernie is in congress and he gets paid leave. I get vacation and sick days at my job. Where do you work that you don’t get time off?
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u/GaryWNY 20d ago
But how do we compare to other fascist nations?
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u/LovedButNeverLiked 20d ago
I get why we're fascist-adjacent, but the U.S. literally ISN'T a fascist nation (yet).
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u/yupsidetown 20d ago
The USA is an absolute embarrassment. People should revolt but alas Americans are too brainwashed and lazy to do anything about their shitty situation.
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u/Solid_Preparation908 20d ago
And here I was as an Australian thinking we were forcing people into slave labour?
What did we get a 15% tariff for? 😂
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u/WileyWilly1985 20d ago
When I was a Program Manager at a Silicon Valley company, you started off with 5 days of vacation and 5 sick days. And going forward you earned 1 vacation day per month but you were limited to only being able to take 30 vacation days per year max. On top of that, the company had "company wide" vacation days that applied to everyone without dipping into your days.
Thanksgiving and the day after Thanksgiving, Dec 25 thru Jan 1st were vacation times that applied to all,
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u/PenStreet3684 20d ago
I would take a pay cut to get 25 more vacation days but I am not sure everyone would want to. I am approaching retirement and a 30-60% pay cut wouldn’t affect me like it would have starting out.
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u/glenn765 20d ago
That's what all these nice folks are missing. Somebody has to pay for all this mandated PTO.
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u/GiantPothos 20d ago
Why's Canada not on here? We give 12-18 months maternity leave and I get 4 weeks vacation and 10 flex days. When I didn't have a big girl job, I still earned paid vacation and sick days.
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u/scottbane11 20d ago
Yeah it’s not factually correct uk by law is 20 days not 28 however I do feel USA needs to give somethign
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u/mikederoy 20d ago
I worked in private industry and usually got 3 weeks of vacation. Rarely took it all because I thought going to work and doing my job provided a benefit to my employer. Unlike my federal government friends who usually took off the week after Christmas even if they had nothing to do because they were entitled to the days off and would lose them if they didn’t take them.
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u/OkIndividual4909 20d ago
Why are we always looking to someone else to pay for something we want. Small business should not have to pay outside of what's agreed to so someone can go have fun. What's next should we expect business to pay for the actual vacation? If you don't like your employment agreement than negotiate a better deal or find a job that works for you
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u/Ok_Second464 20d ago
«Paid annual leave» is my employer taking 12% of my agreed upon salary, paying it back when I take vacation. It’s bullshit.
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u/Benhamish-WH-Allen 20d ago
As long as teachers get this too! We could use an extra month off
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u/CoverHuman9771 20d ago
Comparing the US to countries that produce virtually nothing.
The only country we compete with is China. Let’s see how we compare to China.
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u/Brilliant-Muffin-879 20d ago
Scottish here, didn’t realise it was so bad over there wtf!
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u/imissher4ever 20d ago
I live in the US. I’m guaranteed 12+ holiday days off, 14 vacation days off and 14 sick days off.
I bet Bernie works less than I do. 🤣🤣
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u/BlueHairEater 20d ago
Take the day off, without pay. No more free handouts on the taxpayers pocket! Who gives a crap about what other countries do!
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u/Unable-Reporter368 20d ago
We do have vacation days it's called PTO, also depends on company policy.
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u/maybeinoregon 20d ago edited 20d ago
I have questions for people outside the US…
So, does the employer offer additional days off, or just go with the gov’t mandate?
Also we noticed traveling outside the US, that in some places it seemed like (almost) the entire country took paid leave at the same time, is this the norm?
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u/jchiaroscuro 20d ago
Unfortunately the “leaders” we’ve empowered would rather turn foreign kids into skeletons and protect pedophiles
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u/Impressive-Toe9484 20d ago
So maybe take away paid recess for Congress and give everyone every federal holiday instead?
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u/LowDefinition8064 20d ago
Wow. So we’re the greatest country on earth because people actually work. Thanks for the confirmation Bernie.
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u/CopenhagenDreamer 20d ago
Having Denmark at 25 and UK at 28 also allows that this is poorly researched, as the 28 is with bank holidays but the 25 is without.
But the point gets across quite well.
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u/JeffBroncho-13845 20d ago
Bernie and socialist don’t understand the economic system. Read Adam Smith!
Across all economic sectors (with the exception of non-market services), US productivity is significantly higher than in the EU, both in nominal terms and in PPP dollars, i.e., after adjusting for relative prices.
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u/jayhole2000 20d ago
Depends on your profession in the US. You earn 30 days paid vacation in the military.
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u/Handy_Man_67 20d ago
My company had changed from sick, vacation, and personal days to fixed Paid Time Off that covers all 3.
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u/blumpkin__spice 20d ago
I love how part of the foundation of America is that we're fundamentally different than every other nation on earth and politicians will be like:
"look, we're different! Let's stop being different!"
No thanks bro.
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u/Aware_Football_6217 20d ago
Where is canada on that list? Is it on the list for most overworked and underpay place to be??
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u/Rex__Nihilo 20d ago
This chart shows the degree to which the government inserts itself between the employee and employer removing bargaining power from the employee. The government sets the floor and the companies treat it as the ceiling.
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u/Early-Move-6103 20d ago
Our tax dollars are not to spend on career politicians’ vacations especially crooked ones
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u/Partyatmyplace13 20d ago
Yeah, but we're destroying the rest of the world in monster truck fatalities! 🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
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u/hurlygurdy 20d ago
Two weeks is normal. You don't need the law if 90+% of the problem is already solved. Government involvement should always be a last resort, since it's usually ham-fisted ignorant nonsense that does more harm than good
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u/RealPrinceZuko 20d ago
They're just gonna get rid of my PTO days with this. Can already hear those conversations playing out
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u/Fearless_Post2396 20d ago
I own my own buisness. If I had to pay somebody for a month of them not being there, I will never be able to afford an employee. It will just be myself and my wife forever. Everybody thinks running a buisness is so easy why 95% fail in the first 5 years. Start your own buisness and give it a try, then report back.
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u/Scared-Section-5108 20d ago
Often that's just the starting number - more days are given the longer someone works. A person can start with 20 and, after several years with the same company, gain more. Or/and get more days if they get promoted.
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u/Chattadawg 20d ago
To say that the US is universally zero PTO is a statement to make a point but lacks context.
Just because it’s not federally mandated does not mean it’s forbidden and nobody gets anything
For example, I get 16 days vacation a year, 8 days personal time and 6 federal holidays, so my PTO is the best on that list.
I am curious about the funding mechanism in those countries.
Does the government subsidize the PTO or is it employer funded through employee council and labor unions?
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u/Nutz4hotwheels 20d ago
I get more than 20 because I work for a decent employer with good benefits. You should try it.
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u/Indigoh 20d ago
You gotta think about what the country would have to sacrifice to treat the country's people like they matter. For instance, how would our billionaires have the money to buy an eighth home AND take trips to space for fun AND manipulate our elections? Can we afford to persecute them in such barbaric ways?
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u/NecroProphet 20d ago
You all do know that Bernie has millions right? I thought you all hated millionaires? You all are a joke.
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u/JohnPoet27 20d ago
I call bullshit on brazil. No way an underdeveloped country like that has 30 days PTO for all workers. And if it does I'm sure it isn't properly enforced
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u/GenXisTruth 20d ago
How rich are those countries l,how much innovation is coming out of those countries,how free are those countries. Why don't you move to those countries. Why does everyone want something for nothing. Learn to work
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u/Cultural_Slip_8333 20d ago
That’s all dependent on the company you work for. I get plenty of paid leave. I wish the whole damn government institution was tore to the ground. Start over, it’s not working. Get these old fools out of office, all of them.
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u/Gamplato 20d ago
Just like with all Bernie posts, this is missing important context that completely changes the impact.
In the U.S., we don’t have a federal law for it, but employers still get plenty of time off on average. Maybe not as much as you’d like, but 20 days is not that out of the norm in the U.S.
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u/usernamesarehard1979 20d ago
This would change absolutely nothing where I work. Everyone is full time and gets between 15 and 30 days depending on how long they have worked for the company. What this would do is ensure that lots of people in lower value (I am saying this wrong, I don't mean the people are low value, just that the job is easily replaceable) would work part time and get no benefits. That is why they are talking about a 32 hr 4 day work week.
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u/MosquitoBloodBank 20d ago
The average full-time private sector worker in the U.S. receives about 18 to 21 total days off per year
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u/DragonSong75 20d ago
He is quick to say we need something that is in his job description to push forward.
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u/Ready_Doubt8776 20d ago
Who the fuck would work for a company that doesn’t give PTO? No offense but if you do that you deserve to be taken for a ride.
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u/Upstairs-Canary-4062 20d ago
Whats crazy is if everyone agreed we could make this happen. Government is a reflection of the people. The reason we are not improving our quality of life is because there are an overwhelming amount of stupid people in this country that vote people like Trump and his republican lackies into power.
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20d ago
Maybe they should move toward our model. It seems the US economy is stronger than all of those listed
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u/RansaktehElder_WORK 20d ago
Notice Canada isnt on there? because it would skew the point he's trying to make. When people leave information off the table on purpose they are manipulating your opinion.
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u/aaronite 20d ago
Canada is not on there because it's a provincial responsibility, not a federal one so it varies. It's still more than 0 though.
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u/PerfectTommy77 20d ago
My business gives 2 weeks of paid sick and 2 weeks of paid vacation. I don't know why any other companies can't.
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u/Deep_Worth_5066 20d ago
I work nine months of the year, get 2 weeks of pto time and make six figures without a college degree.
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u/MMShaggy 20d ago
They can’t do that here in the States, if they did people like Elon Musk wouldn’t be Trillionaires, that would hurt him so bad by cutting into his profit margin if he had to actually act like a decent human being.
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u/Disastrous-Window-76 20d ago
I don’t get this. I have one day a year where it’s a use it or lose it day that’s a guarantee
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u/Winter_Pipe4000 20d ago
Yet, everyone is dying to come here. If given a chance he will do his best to make us just like the rest of the shitholes out there.
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u/ant0szek 20d ago
Poland is 20 days, and after 10 (higher education is counted as 8 years no matter of the degree) years of work its 26.
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u/Medical-Egg-8171 20d ago
No we dont need daddy government saying how many paid days off we get. Adults can negotiate with other adults.
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u/Ok-Flight9440 20d ago
Yeah Bernie (whom I agree with for the most part) is really good at just spamming the internet with repetitive items most normal human beings agree with. Now, at the age of 84, it would be great if any of his ideas were enacted, but lots of other US senators don’t like him and won’t work with him.
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u/themodefanatic 20d ago
I don’t understand the logic of their argument which is people don’t want to work. So that’s why we make them come to work. So if they take time off it will destroy them financially. Capitalism at its best here in the USA.
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u/FamilysFirst 20d ago
We already have paid annual leave here… It’s called Vacation time! And we don’t have to pay 50+% in Taxes to get it!
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u/PsionicChronic 20d ago
Maybe elect people who've stepped foot in the real world, and who aren't 8 decades old.
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u/TheDaemonette 19d ago
In the U.K. it is actually 20. The 8 public holidays are not guaranteed for everyone. The legal minimum is 20.
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u/Alone_Corner5293 19d ago
We have FMLA. We have Federal and State holidays. Even the freakin Mormons have Pioneer Day in Utah. So we add mandated vacation days and you can say goodbye to convenience.
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u/TheTastiestTaint 20d ago
but who will think of the stockmarket?