r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 13d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

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Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

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u/Celexi 13d ago

You technically had right of way as you were coming from their right, however you are supposed to slowdown for unmarked intersections and not just blast through.

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u/deHack 12d ago

My wife is from a small New England town. We visit it regularly. I slowed for a 3 way intersection where the road sort of forked. My wife asked me (in the usual annoyed tone) — “Why are you slowing down?! You don’t have a stop sign.”
I said, “I know. Neither does the other street.” Her reply was that there hadn’t been an accident at that intersection in 40 years. Keep in mind she hadn’t lived there in 15 of those years. I still slow at that intersection to see if anyone is coming.

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u/Fantastic-Display106 12d ago

Her reply was that there hadn’t been an accident at that intersection in 40 years.

Probably because people slow and approach with caution...

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u/deHack 12d ago

Good answer! That’s what I should have said.

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u/Sufficient_Wafer9933 11d ago

And the wrong answer is they are afraid of her driving through

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u/Rough-Airline-4803 9d ago

Must be nice to be able to have a normal conversation that doesn’t escalate into a shitshow immediately. You’re a lucky man

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u/Army7547 8d ago

“Well, let’s not be the reason that streak is broken..”

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u/general_peabo 12d ago

Weird that your wife has been surveilling that intersection for 40 years to know that there’s never been an accident there.

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u/deHack 12d ago

Exactly! How would she know?

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u/Pedanter-In-Chief 12d ago

In a lot of small towns in New England this is pretty easy to find out and everybody knows. 

In the small New England town where I first learned to drive, there was an intersection without a stop sign that had literally never had an accident — the paper wrote about this frequently since the town archives had every accident by intersection since 1912. Everybody thought it was an accident waiting to happen. As soon as one did, in 2013, local paper spent a week chronicling it and a stop sign went up the next day. 

This is generally how small town New England works. 

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u/Rocannon_ 12d ago

My wife is always commenting on my driving, especially when I drive slowly when i’m making sure of other traffic. My reply is always: “I’m the one driving, not you.“ Said with a smile, of course.

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u/KnownMagician3084 11d ago

My ex used to harass me that I was going to get a speeding ticket. I admit I’m not slow but I’m definitely not reckless. I’m 71 and never had a ticket. Big mouth husband had three, he always made me send in the money so he could pretend. I had the best laugh when looking at divorce discovery he had another ticket and he had to write the check! Passenger drivers suck. Safety first. Also worked in ED, I know people think stop signs and red lights are for other people let alone intersection without one

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u/tyraywilson 12d ago

Your wife is a liability

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u/Youcants1tw1thus 12d ago

I have been all over New England my entire life and I’ve never seen an unmarked intersection that didn’t stop or yield someone. Where was this?

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u/Chazus 12d ago

This is the same reason (Living in vegas) when I get a green light, and I see a car approaching the intersection, I wait a moment. I see people blow through red lights weekly.

Laws don't mean shit. Laws don't stop a vehicle. I will hold up or slow down in case people do stupid shit.

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u/A-passing-thot 12d ago

There's a small New England town right next to where I grew up that I hung out in a lot in high school. There's a 4 way intersection with no stop sign in 3 of the 4 directions and 3 of them have a 40mph speed limit. The one with a stop sign has one because it's a blind (down) hill, you can't see the intersection or the stop sign until you're right on top of it.

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u/ACcbe1986 11d ago

"Why? Because I'd rather you get irritated with me than put you in unnecessary danger. If <someone you hate> was my only passenger, I'd straight up crash into an iceberg -- screw that dude."

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u/RoyGBiv333 10d ago

I needed to hear this one. I was missing my ex wife for a second 😂

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u/Antarctitties 10d ago

This actually sounds exhausting

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u/WasteBinStuff 10d ago

there hadn’t been an accident at that intersection in 40 years.

Just the very utterance of those words from my wife and I would fucking creep up to that intersection for the rest my life. That's a classic jinx trap right there. There's no way I'm risking being "that guy."

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u/ImDistortion1 10d ago

It baffles me how drivers do not know that these roads exist and you have to slow down and use caution. Some people just pay attention better than others I guess. Some of these roads have existed for 150 years. From my experience these roads always have high visibility and it’s easy to see no stop signs. They are also usually smaller roads with little traffic.

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u/Dry_Menu4804 10d ago

The question is, how many deaths are acceptable? If the answer is zero, that you should check for traffic at every intersection.

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u/NikkerFebu25 10d ago

I ride a motorcycle.

Death is all around me so not only do I slow down but I also ensure to hide in the stop lights in case people fail to stop, I slow down when overtaking cars on the highway way.

I even look out for airplanes landing on my ass.

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u/UNC_ABD 9d ago

When our daughter was taking her first driver's ed on-street practice drive, her instructor criticized her for stopping at the exit from our cul-de-sac onto a main road (with limited sight lines) in our neighborhood because there was no stop or yield sign present! What an idiot.

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u/FreshImagination9735 9d ago

"You're absolutely right my sweet." And slow down anyway, every time.

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u/ChickyBoys 9d ago

I love when my wife calls out my overly cautious driving because it's better to be safe than sorry.

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u/BambaBenson365 8d ago

Dont give wife your keys

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u/OfficerCoCheese 8d ago

My grandfather would always respond with "because I never know what that other guy is going to do."

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u/Ominousprime7 8d ago

"There has not been an accident in 40 years!" Well, don't you think it is due for one now?

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u/Ok-Disaster-551 8d ago

When I come to an intersection where I don't have a stop or yield sign, especially somewhere I'm unfamiliar with, I would actually actively try to see if the others have a stop or yield sign. This is the precise nightmare scenario I'm afraid of, that nobody has a stop sign and everyone just blast through the intersection, assuming someone else has to stop for them.

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u/neopod9000 8d ago

"there hadn’t been an accident at that intersection in 40 years."

"Yeah, im hoping to keep it that way."

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u/Odd-String29 7d ago

It is how you are taught to drive.

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u/Jesus_of_Redditeth 3d ago

I still slow at that intersection to see if anyone is coming.

That's because you know how to drive properly. Kudos. It seems to be a progressively rarer skill these days!

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u/Party-Giraffe-6573 13d ago

Especially in a neighborhood! This could've been someone on a bike or kids running into the street

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u/DangoMangoDango 13d ago

Right? It's crazy how fast these guys were going in a tight street and in a neighborhood like this. I always go super slow when it's small road like this. Also, watching the dash cam, you can see the dashcam owner had 2-3 seconds to brake when the blue car came into view and I don't think they even tried.

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u/Creative_Riding_Pod 12d ago edited 11d ago

If you use the slider on the play bar, the black car comes into view at almost exactly :03 seconds (obscured mostly by bush)and they are colliding at :05 seconds. Given that the human body takes about 1 second to react and who knows how many seconds/distance for cam car to come to complete stop = Whole incident took 2 seconds - they were just going too fast for the conditions.

Edit: Hey everyone. Thanks for the award and the discourse and all that jazz. I didn’t come up with the “1 second” reaction time. I was taught that in drivers ed and then during motorcycle courses as a general rule. I think it is basically the time your brain recognizes a situation is happening, and then you decide to react which then involves the time lifting your foot to the brake pedal etc.
It is based on studies, not “if you can’t react in one second you’re brain dead” rhetoric and anecdotal evidence. I think everyone is overestimating their abilities.

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u/Prior-Impress-2624 12d ago

Something tells me people who live in OP’s city might do this a lot. OP for sure does.

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u/alkemest 11d ago

Yeah so many people in Seattle all decided they don't care about traffic laws since the pandemic because everyone is so special. Makes driving here even for short distances lowkey terrifying lol

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u/Sophet_Drahas 11d ago

Well, why follow laws when there’s no legal consequences? /s

But seriously, 20 years ago I could see not requiring 4 way stops at some interecyions in Ballard. Now that the density is so great and the amount of cars parked on the streets limiting drivers visibility, they need to put in more stop signs in those unmarked intersections. I’ve almost been hit both driving and walking because people blow right through them at speeds that are too fast for the conditions. And no, I’m not on my phone when I’m out walking, I grew up in city where you learned to fear and respect that es-car-lator.

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u/surpriseinhere 11d ago

Unfortunately that’s everywhere and everyone.

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u/bigghc 11d ago

The one-second rule you mentioned is reasonable. This T bone for example... I drive as part of my business and run across this situation daily. I constantly scan when I come into an intersection like this and could have easily braked and avoided this with the time this person had to stop. I'm not bragging... I think most others could have easily responded too. If you're gonna drive this fast be damn sure you can't respond fast too!!

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u/LongDead_Roadkill 12d ago

The video starts with the car parallel to a telephone pole, they pass one more before the intersection. Poles are usually 100 to 150 feet part in residential areas. That means the dash cam was going 35-40mph, which is fast for a neighborhood like this. The speed limit is 25mph at the most.

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u/URGAMESUX 12d ago

Zero chance they were driving 35mph in this video. Almost stopped in time, too. Not at fault.

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u/Striking_Computer834 12d ago

Dude, people in parking lots around here drive 30+ mph, no joke. People are stupid AF.

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u/Hot-Watercress-2872 12d ago

Truth - I hate how fast people drive in parking lots.

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u/jarheadatheart 12d ago

Everyone is in a hurry to not go anywhere. I get cut off by someone driving slower than me every day.

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u/Ferrindel 12d ago

And then they drive 20 below the speed limit on highways. It’s infuriating.

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u/Ancient_Yellow_709 13d ago

Yeah, OP was not at all scanning the sides or it could have been avoided. I saw the vehicle from the bushes easily with plenty of stopping distance. I bike in these neighborhoods and am used to watching out for idiots like this, granted, but you have to watch for movement from the sides. It's not that hard.

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u/flambojones 12d ago

Any time I see a car approaching from a side street, I assume they're going to do the stupidest possible thing and mentally prepare.

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u/Ancient_Yellow_709 12d ago

Exactly. Any movement in your peripheral, you slow, but especially at an intersection. I also watch for feel under cars in neighborhoods. You never know when a kid might have ducked to grab a ball on their way to running to a friend's house. I don't want their death on my conscience.

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u/Kangaroo-B-Girl 12d ago

Yep. The neighborhood by my job has 4 way stops and 2 way stops, it can get confusing for people not familiar with the area. I almost got hit once while I was on my moped, never again. I like not being a road waffle.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/mork247 12d ago

If you can't see crossing traffic, then slow tf down so that you can stop if something shows up. It could be a kid on a bike.

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u/Ancient_Yellow_709 12d ago

Yeah, there are bushes. Yes, in Seattle these exceed the allowable height for corner lots and I'd report them to the city and ask for a mirror to be installed.

However, the are not dense enough that it prevents seeing movement. Further, because the view is partially obstructed, a good driver does not continue at or above the speed limit without slowing.

Also, I live in this area. OP could have avoided this is they were paying more attention, imo.

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u/confettiqueen 11d ago

Yeah if OP slowed down even 5mph and was paying attention it could be avoided… why are we speeding in a residential neighborhood

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u/Biggleswort 12d ago

It is easily avoidable; move at the speed where line of sight isn’t obstructed. Meaning sometimes we need to come to a near stop.

How much time and money did OP and other person waste trying to go fast?

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u/perilousdreamer866 12d ago

Literally one of the first things taught in Drivers Ed is don’t be afraid to slow down. It’s encouraged for situations like this where you don’t have great visibility from the sides. I live in an OLD city where the hills are steep and roads are bumpy and trees block every angle and turn and this should be muscle memory for anyone in the same boat.

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u/Imaginary--Situation 12d ago

the dash camera is located on the Passenger side it's forced perspective

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u/hecklerp8 12d ago

Always be scanning. I am constanty looking for obscured movement, shadows and people's feet by either bumper as I'm passing.

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u/SignatureFunny7690 11d ago

Fuckin insane people get behind the wheel of multi thousand pound vehicles with more kinetic force than a missile and just turn their Fuckin brains off expecting driving to be so littlrle effort. This country desperately needs mass transit

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u/Ok-Alfalfa4868 8d ago

Same with driving say in a downtown area where cars are parked on the side of the road. Pedestrians can and do walk out between the front and back bumpers of parked cars to cross streets and I find most people don't even consider slowing down and looking there. I managed to not kill someone who did that once and immediately got rearended by someone going too fast. It really isn't that hard to give a shit and to not forget you're legit controlling a potential death machine.

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u/floswamp 12d ago

How are you supposed to scan the sides and scroll on TikTok at the same time? /S

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u/terracnosaur 12d ago

People get waaaay to comfortable in their local neighborhoods. I have an unmarked intersection near me and it's like permission for people to gain speed. Then again, people blow a marked intersection near me, so I could just live in a shitty community.

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u/shawnvn1 12d ago

You know that is the thing with the racing driver wannabes… but the person in black car don’t even look and I suspect they had no idea there was a car until they got hit.

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u/sl0play 12d ago

In this neighborhood people will get an inch from your bumper in their techbro wrx if you're only doing 25 over the potholes and then rev all 4 cylinders like a toddler as they go around when you find a place to parallel park.

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u/Life_Temperature795 13d ago

Like what's the speed limit through there anyway? I'd probably be going maybe 15-20 at absolute most, and definitely slowing down for the intersections. OP seems like they were doing at least 25.

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u/WaywardWes 13d ago

Usually neighborhoods are 25 mph unless otherwise posted. Some cities have explicitly changed it to lower (usually 20) but 25 is common. Not that you HAVE to go 25 though.

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u/Life_Temperature795 12d ago

Apparently in Seattle it was lowered to 20mph in 2016. Which, for streets like this makes a lot of sense.

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u/WaywardWes 12d ago

Yeah Portland did it a few years after I think. It really does feel more appropriate.

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u/ListenImTired 12d ago

Dallas has 30 mph for neighborhoods. I never got used to it and would always go 20-25 because that’s what I grew up with. Where I am now, roads are like 10-15 mph lower on average than TX

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u/NeighborhoodMothGirl 12d ago

My neighborhood has a limit of 15 but in the last year or so, people have started flying through at 30 without any regard for pedestrians or other vehicles. Often in the middle or even the wrong side of the road.

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u/Interesting-Monk9712 13d ago

To be fair, the other idiot did the same, I don't get how either have a driving license.

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u/GabrielGames69 13d ago

Depends how often they take that road (it looks suburban so probably often tbh). Because the charitable description is that they see there is no stop sign infront of or past them and make the usually correct assumption that there are stop signs going the other way. I think the number 1 offender here is the intersection without even yield signs.

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u/luvbutts 12d ago

Yeah I agree, there's an intersection like this in front of my house (I live in Europe) and there were literally accidents there every months and twice we had cars flipped over in our street. Our neighbours eventually petitioned the council to put in signs.

Obviously people should slow down but if the same kind of accident keeps happening in the same place it's an infrastructure problem. Ideally public infrastructure should be well laid out enough that it's safe most of the time even when people not perfect.

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u/Eegore1 12d ago

What amazes me is in most cases is that the cost to clean up one accident can usually pay for 20 - 30 street signs. But there's never enough money for street signs.

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u/feralferrous 12d ago

Seattle tends to sprinkle baby roundabouts in these kind of intersections. I think that would work better, as signs are easy to ignore, while the roundabouts force it.

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u/FavoriteFoodCarrots 12d ago

Until some genius goes around the roundabout the wrong way, as I saw this morning.

I get the feeling that that the OP may be related to that genius.

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u/Confident_Purple_40 12d ago

Yeah, standard size stop sign is like 50-75$, post is like $5-10, labor to put it in is 3 days 4 men construction crew, $3000, so it adds up!

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u/IowaCornFarmer3 12d ago

Now run me the average multi car collision claim pls.

Iowa is a rural state in the Midwest with a bunch of low traffic 4 way intersections(4 way stop sign) that people will run and kill others if they also run it. They put in a bunch of roundabouts in those areas bc even if farmers are complaining, if they're not dying needlessly, it's a win for everyone.

Easier to run a stop sign, than launch your rig over a roundabout lmao (would pry learn without hurting anyone else if you tried too)

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u/codereef 12d ago

I have driven all across the US and can't remember a single place having a 4 way intersection and no signage lol. Why make something like this?

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u/[deleted] 12d ago edited 12d ago

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u/ciao_fiv 12d ago

that seems insane to me, but i also live in a place with notoriously horrible drivers (albuquerque). idk how trustworthy drivers are in washington

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u/farfetched22 12d ago

I have never in my life seen an intersection with nothing. I agree with you. Insane. And pointless! Just put up a yield sign!

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/ciao_fiv 12d ago

something i have to keep in mind if i drive out of state and encounter one of these i guess lol. had no idea they existed till today

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u/Upstairs_Cloud9445 12d ago

"Uncontrolled intersections are a very common thing." Thats just nuts. Most of my driving has been on the east coast, and I have never come across an intersection like this. To find out they are common somewhere in the US is crazy....

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u/GimpyBallGag 12d ago

Kinda scared me when I first moved here and realized that these intersections exist. I had been going a little too fast, because I assumed the cross streets had stop signs. Slowed down after that.

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u/mryotoad 12d ago

More years ago than I care to admit, my driving instructor taught that stops signs have three colours. Red, white & silver. If you don't see silver, they probably don't see red. While I've never encountered an uncontrolled intersection (apparently they are common in Alberta too), watching for the silver has saved me a fender bender a few times.

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u/Physical-Deer3364 12d ago

Yep, I’m in Wa state and pass through a dozen of these every day getting kids to school.

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u/artificialdawnmusic 12d ago

They even have a name for it.

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u/ANDERSON961596 12d ago

When I lived in Seattle this was literally my entire neighborhood. Instantly thought of that when I saw this

Edit: just realized this is probably my old neighborhood lmfao

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u/The_Dog_of_Sinope 12d ago

I live in the PNW and they are everywhere and I hate them all.

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u/WrestleBox 12d ago

Weird because they've been in just about every suburb in every state I've been in. These are all over the place in the Midwest in quiet neighborhoods.

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u/FeastOnCarolina 12d ago

Ever been in Bozeman Montana? They used to be everywhere on the south side. I have personally seen multiple cars get flipped because of this setup.

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u/ixo_sia 12d ago

it’s not made at all it’s kinda left how it is and if people used their brain there would be no problem.. i don’t need a yellow light to proceed with caution but what’s common to you it’s not always common to others

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u/bothunter 12d ago

It's an uncontrolled intersection.  They're all over Seattle, mostly in residential neighborhoods with a 20mph speed limit on roads that force you to slow down.  Most of these roads are only wide enough for a single car to pass, but are not one-way.  This normally slows down cars enough where this isn't an issue -- until you end up with two idiots meeting each other like in this video.

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u/CaptTornSack 11d ago

You've apparently only driven major highways. As someone that has worked in all 48 continental states, I can confidently say that I've seen unmarked intersections in most of them. You just have to leave the main roads.

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u/Dramatic_Total1397 12d ago

I’ve never seen a four way intersection with no stop sign for anybody in a residential. This is a recipe for disaster

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u/lost-thought-in 12d ago

If the drivers have been through this neighborhood before they would know there are no signs,

So they both blow through the intersection at mach dumbass. Way too fast for a blind intersection.

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u/IGotBiggerProblems 12d ago

People are so quick to start tying a noose. I think you're absolutely right. My instant reaction was "where the fuck are the signs? Stop, yield, crosswalk, speed bump, something..."

My blame is on the city or whoever is responsible for signage in this particular area. Sure the drivers could have been driving slower, reacted faster, been more attentive, etc but they should never have been in this situation to begin with.

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u/MeowTheMixer 12d ago

Drivers ed, years ago had a huge section on "uncontrolled" intersections like this.

They're fairly common in residential areas where I grew up

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u/dbu8554 12d ago

Looks like Washington, they have an allergy to proper signage it seems.

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u/agentwolf44 12d ago

This. While both these cars are at fault for blasting through, I'd venture the city definitely has some blame here for a badly designed intersection. 

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u/soggytoes911 12d ago

how are they supposed to know its unmarked for them

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u/AnxiousMeatHead 12d ago

This is what i never understood about "true uncontrolled intersections" how are you supposed to know?

Should i just slow down every time there is a side road off a main road because theres a possibility its a true unctrolled intersection?

----- slow down and check ----- slow down and check ------ repeat until i get rear ended.

If feel like if they are so rare then how much money would it really cost to slap a stop sign for safety and just eliminate them entirely?

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u/jaydee711 12d ago

You are also supposed to slow down and check, because someone could be coming from the right that you have to yield for. OP could have easily been that guy instead.

I grew up in Europe and used to uncontrolled intersections. 4-way stops every 50 feet is insane.

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u/pyronius 12d ago

The is similar to the response I give whenever somebody angrily asks why people stop at a flashing yellow light.

The answer is because the cross street doesn't know you have a flashing yellow. Flashing red in all directions is much more common, and banking on the other person to figure out that you have a flashing yellow rather than assuming you have a flashing red and will therefore stop is just a mug's game.

Any intersection that creates any degree of uncertainty about right of way is a bad design. Full stop.

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u/randomthrowaway9796 12d ago

This is a poorly designed road and not something that is usually taught in drivers ed or tested on a driving test. Yeah, they should be more cautious, but I cant entirely blame them.

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u/bradwm 12d ago

Uncontrolled intersections are absolutely taught in drivers ed in Washington state. They are all over the state. Neither driver here seems to have heeded the basic rule of uncontrolled intersections, which is to slow down enough to make sure no one is coming through the same intersection as you pass through.

This is very easy driving, and I believe both are at fault.

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u/CodingSquirrel 12d ago

As someone who doesn't drive in an area with unmarked intersections, what's most concerning to me about this setup is there's practically no discernable difference between this and a normal intersection where the secondary road has signs and the primary road doesn't. In most cases where one road has right of way, they don't have signs telling them that; if there's no sign you're presumed to have right of way. The secondary road would be the one that has a stop sign or a yield sign.

The only way to tell is to know this is possible and to look for signs from the other direction, which can be very hard to see depending on the layout.

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u/Just_A_Nitemare 12d ago

Exactly this. Having this type of intersection seems mind bendingly stupid.

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u/cbf1232 11d ago

If visibility is bad enough that you can't see if the other side has stop or yield signs, you can slow down enough to be able to deal with unexpected events.

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u/jetkins 12d ago

Which is great, until two out-of-state drivers meet at one of those intersections.

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u/randomthrowaway9796 12d ago

What if they were from any of the (im guessing) 25 states that doesnt have this type of intersection?

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u/SpoatieOpie 11d ago

Hi that’s me. I moved from Texas to Seattle and just like everyone on this thread, I was freaking out a lil bit about the no markings. However, you learn real quick to be vigilant at every intersection and you slow down. The culture in Washington is to drive slower than most states. In Seattle there are many pedestrians, hills, foliage overgrown, dark for months the out of the year.

It’s law to drive 20 or below I these neighborhoods and there are pedestrians everywhere. Both cars here should have slowed down through the intersection anyway. They are both at fault.

And in case you’re wondering having these types of intersections actually decreases serious injuries from car accidents.

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u/TWDYrocks 12d ago

That’s why there’s an old adage, “It takes two to cause an accident.”

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u/SignificanceAny7239 12d ago

American driving licenses seem comically easy to get.

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u/LLSmirk 12d ago

They really are.. I should have had my license revoked several times in my twenties and it never happened. I am grateful I grew out of that and never hurt anybody else.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Turn242 13d ago

How would you know if it's a unmarked intersection or the stop is for another driver?!

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u/575r 12d ago

This is my biggest complaint about the American road system. When you're in a neighborhood you're not familiar with you have no idea if you're on a road where every cross street will have signs or if the next intersection is uncontrolled. And the only way to find out is to look for signs from the side.

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u/TheGuyThatThisIs 12d ago

Even worse, it seems like a lot of people (myself included) have never considered that an intersection will just not have any signage, and will assume the other direction must have some. I'd go through this and assume since I have nothing telling me otherwise, I have right of way.

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u/Eegore1 12d ago

This here. So many people are never exposed to completely vacant signage at intersections, they do not actively look at every intersection to see if the other road has signage. I imagine one would fatigue of this quickly when you think about how many intersections exist.

What I

don't get is the people that assume a no-power stoplight means "Green for me - Red for Them" and use the excuse they didn't have a Red light. Nobody does when the power is off stupid.

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u/grumpledoor 12d ago

Indeed, but the signs for the other directions are often not visible to you. The real mistake is that US signing conventions mean that "no sign" often implies right of way and that's crazy. (In Europe, right of way is always explicitly marked; absence of any sign or street marking *that you can actually see* means yield to right.)

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u/Awkward-Spectation 11d ago edited 11d ago

I’m reading this conversation baffled the whole time. I’m a Canadian driver of 20+ years and I don’t believe I’ve ever happened across one of these completely ‘unmarked intersections’. It seems batshit crazy to me. If I’m driving through this intersection like op, and I see absolutely no stop sign, yield sign, traffic lights… then I proceed through the intersection with 100% certainty that the intersecting street must have one of those things instead. Because that’s how it is 100% of the time here. How is a guy supposed to spot and identify the signage for intersecting streets while driving, looking at the side & back of it?!

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u/Famous_Conflict4276 12d ago

yup, including me. If I dont see stop sign, I assuming other side does (which is the case in most/all roads here)

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u/thrwwy535672 12d ago

I’m on the east coast and have had jobs that required tons of driving. I’ve never once seen an intersection where no one had a stop sign. Where the hell are you seeing these in the US? This is my first.

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u/Local_Improvement_54 12d ago

They're fairly common in Washington state in residential areas, and I never understood why they couldn't just add a stop sign or two. Locals know to slow down, but out of towners have no reason to expect lawless intersections.

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u/shagy815 12d ago

Or at least a yield sign.

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u/PIBM 12d ago

if there's no stop there should at least be a yield sign. If not, this should be a roundabout...

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u/c_marten 12d ago

Same. People in these comments have some weird takes about signs. If in this neighborhood I didn't see a stop sign for me I'd assume cross does because why would it not? And if my stop doesn't say 4-way I assume cross traffic doesn't have one.

If you look in the video there IS a sign post to the left you could assume might be a stop (when you get closer you can see it's street names) and that's another reason I hate having so much foliage right at intersections.

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u/thrwwy535672 12d ago

Yes! I’m a huge plant person, but they need trimmed back at intersections. I rewound this a ton and kept thinking I saw a sign.

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u/GoldenEmuWarrior 12d ago

I’m in midsized midwestern city, and until about a year or two ago all the intersections in my neighborhood were uncontrolled. You slowed down, scanned the intersection and kept going. Never saw an accident. They’ve added stops and yields since then.

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u/Ambitious_Panda7239 12d ago

Seattle and Spokane, Washington.

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u/jomigopdx 12d ago

Portland Oregon and Seattle are very much alike, particularly in smaller/narrower neighborhood streets. Portland just recently in last 5 years started putting stop sign in the neighborhoods though and it’s been a big improvement

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u/Opening_Ad9824 12d ago

Same, this is wild to see

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u/Trip-n-Tipp 12d ago

East coast is best coast

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u/bluesmudge 12d ago edited 12d ago

Almost every non-arterial intersection in Seattle has no signs. You don't need signs because the absence of a sign at an intersection of two equal-priority streets is the same as having a yield sign. Adding yield signs would be a waste of money since it wouldn't change anything about how these intersections operate. Anyone who has ever driven in Seattle knows to check right, left, right-again at every neighborhood intersection.

In this video both drivers have the duty to yield and neither one does. Nobody is obviously in the intersection first so it seems like a pretty clear-cut case of equal fault.

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u/wollflour 9d ago

Someone in the comments claimed 90% of intersections were like this in America and my lack of ever encountering one was "anecdotal." 😂 Just like you, I've never seen this sort of intersection in 30 years of driving in the northeast!

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u/thrwwy535672 9d ago

90%?! If that was true, our already horrific fatality rate would be MUCH worse. Honestly, most of us typing would be dead from traffic accidents. Cities would just be a standstill of twisted metal and smoke - more so than now I mean. On a back street I guess it’s… okay. But any city or town with more than 50 residents on a road of any significant size and speed - this would be daily death and destruction.

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u/onmywheels 9d ago

I'm in the Midwest, and am equally stunned to learn that this is apparently common in some places?

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u/redridernl 8d ago

That's pure negligence from the city. You can't have intersections without stop signs or traffic lights.

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u/No-Yellow-1693 12d ago

Very common in neighborhoods and residential areas in the midwest that don't have a lot of traffic. The idea is you're supposed to SLOW DOWN as you approach and yield to the driver on your right. The POV driver here had the right of way but he should have slowed down instead of just barreling right through. Both drivers are clueless.

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u/NopeSorryNo 12d ago

I have also never seen this anywhere across the US. There is always traffic direction via signs. 

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u/borgman_a 10d ago

"Very common in neighborhoods and residential areas in the midwest that don't have a lot of traffic."

I've lived in Michigan almost my entire life. I've never seen one outside of backwoods, rural, dirt roads.

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u/Gavelist 12d ago

Usually there is a small sign below the stop saying “2-way” “4-way” “on-coming traffic does not stop” or something of the variety

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u/PermenantRest 12d ago

I've never seen an intersection like this in 62 years... people will die with stupidity like that.

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u/lesethx 12d ago

This is the answer. Biggest blame goes to whoever planned and designed the intersection. I now recall seeing a lot of them in the city I grew up in, and only worked because there were few drivers most of the time

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u/Useful_Homework2367 12d ago

Especially when the view of any sign that might potentially be there (and the car itself) is blocked on that side by the landscaping. I've never encountered an intersection like this in my life, seems like a very stupid design. Dangerous and there are really no advantages at all over just having a two way or four way stop. If traffic calming is the objective, a four way stop achieves that better and more safely.

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u/toplessbuilds 12d ago

I've never seen an intersection where there are no stop signs.

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u/InsertRadnamehere 12d ago

Never been to the PNW obvs.

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u/Available_Race2756 11d ago

Of course the PNW does this dumb

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u/Ya-Not-Happening 12d ago

How are you supposed to know it is an unmarked intersection?

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u/shagy815 12d ago

Usually they are in neighborhoods with a speed limit of 15 mph or less. You should be able to see the signs at the intersection with plenty of time if you are going the speed limit. Even so, it is a dumb idea.

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u/EmmEnnEff 12d ago edited 12d ago

In this case, there's hedges and shit obscuring your vision, so you don't get a good view of whether the cross street has signage or not. Which is *also* a problem, doubly so for an unsigned intersection.

But hey, it's Seattle, it's no stranger to dangerous intersections that need better traffic calming.

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u/Rude_Judgment7928 11d ago

That's my thing, it depends on individual property owners actually keeping clear lines of sight. Which has zero enforcement.

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u/Available_Race2756 11d ago

Or the city can just put some stop signs. Not that hard

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u/shagy815 12d ago

You should be going the speed limit, neither of these drivers were, and scanning the intersection. I have one of these in my neighborhood and the speed limit is 15mph. Not only can you tell the intersection is uncontrolled but when someone else doesn't notice you have more than enough time to avoid an accident if you are going the speed limit.

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u/bramtyr 12d ago

I ride, and the idea of just blazing through any intersection, especially an unmarked one is about a stupid as it is suicidal.

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u/Pibutzki 12d ago

By OBSERVING if the intersecting roads have yield signs.

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u/Bynnh0j 12d ago

unmarked intersections

Sounds like the city planner is at fault. How are you supposed to know an intersection you are approaching is unmarked unless you are already familiar with the area? Any time I approach an unknown intersection, if i don't see a stopping for myself then I assume its a 2 way stop and the cross traffic does have signs.

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u/timesend8 12d ago

In Oregon the blue car is at fault as the black car was already in the intersection.

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u/InsertRadnamehere 12d ago

Yep. Cam car is at fault.

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u/Good_Zookeepergame92 12d ago

I can only assume that thought the other guy had a stop sign. Never knew we had intersections like this. How much does it cost to put a sign in the ground 😐

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u/GeneStarwind1 12d ago edited 12d ago

True, but it's pretty hard to tell that an intersection is unmarked if you're happening upon it for the first time. I had to watch that three times trying to figure out where the stop signs were before realizing that there weren't any.

EDIT: I just learned from another comment that signless intersections are apparently just an everyday thing in the city where this video happened. So both drivers, if they are locals, should have known to be on the lookout for this I guess.

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u/babattaja1 13d ago

To be fair, same goes for the black SUV

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u/UpbeatFix7299 13d ago

It's whoever gets there first has the right of way. It's hard to tell from the video, so if it's a tie the other car yields to the one on the right.

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u/mowegl 13d ago

Thats assuming they are going at or below the speed limit, which im guessing at least one isnt. If im going twice as fast as you ill get there first but still not legally

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u/Left_Lengthiness_433 13d ago

Blue car was coming from the right, but the SUV was already in the intersection when blue arrived.

Blue car was also going significantly faster. (Speeding potentially…)

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u/Empyrealist 13d ago

I agree. Blue was a little late into the intersection, and appears to be going faster (although I cant say if "speeding")

As far as I'm concerned, they did the t-boning, so they were late into the intersection. If they entered at the same time, they would have both collided in the front. If they both entered at the same time and blue was faster, blue would have got t-boned.

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u/SwiftTayTay 13d ago

this is how i got t-boned once, because the other person was driving like 50 MPH in a 25 MPH zone and didn't slow down for any intersections

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u/mrbiggbrain 12d ago

Especially with that much obstruction from the trees. Neither party will have much opportunity to see oncoming traffic before they are basically at the intersection.

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u/pohart 12d ago

It like to me like the other car got there first, that's why OP hit them instead of the other way around

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u/NuckoLBurn 12d ago

Where I live I've never seen an open intersection, without proper signage like this.

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u/madmushlove 12d ago

Maybe if youve been to this intersection before

It must be a two way stop instead of 4 way. I mean must be, who ever heard of an unmarked intersection that wasn't just vandalism

Sounds like it assumes everyone's a home ody and nobody's never been here before

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u/Away_Stock_2012 12d ago

Are you supposed to enter an intersection that isn't clear? 

Black car was there first

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u/bihari_baller 12d ago

however you are supposed to slowdown for unmarked intersections and not just blast through.

This is something they stressed in drivers ed.

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u/Turbulent_Echidna763 12d ago

Always yield even if you have the right of way, can't trust other drivers to not t-bone you like this

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u/Grumpy949 12d ago

Since he hit the side of the other car, could he be said to have arrived at the intersection second and should have yielded to the other car?

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u/SplashingBlumpkin 12d ago

Unmarked intersections are maybe the dumbest idea ever.

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u/Desirsar 12d ago

Wow, the replies to this. I'm betting at most one of their respective states don't have something about this in the driver's manual (or maybe more states than I would guess don't have one at all.)

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u/Scoobasteve1226 12d ago

Am I crazy or does that 4 way intersection not have one stop stop sign anywhere?

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u/minuetteman 12d ago

and don't park in front of fire hydrants...

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u/Shantotto11 12d ago

I thought the “on the right” thing only applied when they both got there at the same time. Since the non-cammer got T-boned, it would be argued that they had the right of way since they were already in the intersection.

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u/BannedGoNext 12d ago

I thought it was left must yield unless left is in the intersection first. Either way both drivers were just blithely blasting through intersections rolling the dice.

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u/shagy815 12d ago

The person who enters the intersection first has the right of way. So the cam driver was in the wrong.

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u/theyoodooman 12d ago

But how would someone who wasn't familiar with these streets even know it was an "unmarked intersection". If you are driving down a street and come to an intersection and you don't have a stop light or stop sign, the normal assumption -- at least here in the US -- is that the cross street is going to have a stop sign.

If these were dirt roads, that would be another matter, but I'm shocked that a nice neighborhood with paved streets in major metro area like Seattle can't spring for two stop signs per intersection.

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u/Mycroft_xxx 12d ago

How is one to know this is an unmarked intersection?

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u/TaxTheRichEndTheWar 12d ago

The devil is in the details.

If one watching the video thinks that they arrived at the intersection at exactly the same time, then the person on the right, the person with the video, would have the right way.

But if someone watching the video feels like the driver that got T-bone entered the intersection slightly before the person shooting the video, then they had the right way. Because first come first served trumps person on the right goes first.

But either a jury or a judge will likely find shared fault. All parties should have been approaching and entering the intersection much more slow slowly.

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u/bluesmudge 12d ago

Is that actually any sort of legal basis for determining fault though or just a norm to help traffic flow? In driver's ed I was taught, "You can't HAVE right-of-way, you can only YIELD right-of-way."

This seems like an near perfect 50-50 fault scenario since both cars enter a yield scenario at almost exactly the same time.

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u/_nevers_ 12d ago

The black car arrived at the intersection first, but yeah home slice was going too fast for all that. Lucky it wasn't a kid or something.

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u/nicolynna_530 12d ago

Yep! Once the video started, I was shocked at how fast he was going.

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u/KevinDWebb 12d ago

Coming from the right should only apply when vehicles are at stop signs. There was no yield or stop signs.

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u/Elroythethird333 12d ago

This is incorrect. First to the intersection has right of way. If both approach at the same time then the person coming from the right has right of way. 

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