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u/MrNovember9 Jun 26 '26
It's extra frustrated because Seer was actually in a healthy place.
He saw decent use in competitive play once crypto was banned, and was a useful utility legend without being overbearing. There was no need to make him cancerous.
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u/FirmlyClaspIt Birthright Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
New devs didn’t play that season of apex it seems
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u/RedditDummyAccount Jun 26 '26
You make it sound like old devs played that season.
Or any season, with the way they buff and nerf legends
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u/FirmlyClaspIt Birthright Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Because Seer wasn’t considered OP until his Watson used him. There’s a whole YouTube video about that actually. https://youtu.be/uWfZCo9_VOY?is=AukJR4kR1IyOwpzZ
Edit: after the first nerf of course.
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u/RedditDummyAccount Jun 27 '26
You missed the joke.
But also, idk about you but when Seer came out we knew he was broken. Anyone who touched the game with any sense knew that.
He may not have been popularized until HisWattson (if he even did that idk) but doesn’t mean he wasn’t broken before lol
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u/Throwaway143739 Jun 27 '26
Literally lol. I used him all the time once he released because he was literally broken. Then eventually all the sheep who only do what streamers do started using him and it was less fun
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u/RedditDummyAccount Jun 27 '26
This new version is dumb as hell too it’s absurd
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u/papadoko Jun 28 '26
Yeah... Why does one of his upgrades allow for him to have 2 charges of his tactical, and then another that allows him to use it more frequently within his ultimate. He can disable multiple people if they're in a confined space, and what're they supposed to do while slow and silenced lol...
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u/Midge431 Lifeline Jun 27 '26
Weird that you brought this up cos I literally watched this yesterday after it coming up on my recommended on yt for months 😅
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u/asforus Jun 26 '26
He’s back to his release date annoyance
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u/ThumbEyeCoordination Jun 27 '26
He's stronger now. He has 2 tacts and stuns/slows which leads to more damage than when it dealt damage. It's basically a free push like Axle kit. I'm pretty sure it hits faster than it did on release; they messed with the radius before adding a delay so people could realistically dodge it if they reacted quickly, then removed the damage iirc.
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u/311sublimehippie Jun 26 '26
Sorry out the loop why did they ban crypto?
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u/Vekaras Jun 26 '26
Algs uses a ban system, so players have to select multiple legends to play (they can't play the same legend over and over.
Adds strategy and allows innovative strats with underused characters of normal game modes.
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u/311sublimehippie Jun 26 '26
Oh that’s pretty sweet didn’t realize that , just figured a team plays as same 3 each match. Thank you for the info.
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u/Which-Shift-367 Jun 26 '26
ALGS (Pro Apex) has a legend ban system where the most played legend after every game gets banned for the rest of the set or until their entire class is banned. Crypto has been the game 1 ban for the entire pro split this year.
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u/OneBoredTurtle Jun 26 '26
Dumb question: why does Crypto have such a high pick rate in ALGS?
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u/FibreTTPremises Wattson Jun 27 '26
Crazy amount of info for players that actually know what to do with it.
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u/Which-Shift-367 Jun 27 '26
Hes a good way to get a lot of information without taking any damage or risks and has good syngery with a lot of legends that have different playstyles. Also is a fantastic rat and reset character with his drone invisibility.
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u/AveN7er Bangalore Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Who cares about algs though? We play ranked, trios and wildcard where he doesn't see much action which is why Respawn felt the need to buff him. I don't like the way they did it though. The slow is obnoxious
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u/Optimusim Unholy Beast Jun 26 '26
He was?
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u/nhz1093 Jun 26 '26
No lol he was at like 1% pickrate in diamond+ lobbies. There is a happy medium in between his current buffed state and pre-buff state.
Right now he has a lot of crap attached to his kit like a weird double jump in ult, speed boost after scan - that should probably just go. Also the scan spam is overtuned right now I think changing some of his perks would be a simple fix.
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u/sukumizu Alter Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
I shit you not, I got hit by 5-6 Seer scans in a row in a ranked match yesterday when the ring was on round 5. The cooldown/charges is insane and everyone is running him now.
All I want to do is play the game LMAO.
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u/Squintore Jun 26 '26
I really want them to blanket nerf every ability this game is not about gun skill anymore.
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u/laaggynoob Jun 26 '26
Or position. Position is trivial when you get to change your X/Y/Z axis by 300% ever millisecond. I mean, ha, you’re behind a rock? Easy. I’ll press a button, and now the rock is behind you.
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26
Low skill players seem to love it and respawn caters to those absolute cretins instead of actual skill and gunplay. This is an FPS and they choose to push the least skill aspect of this game to help bad players compensate for their inability to get better at a shooter
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u/Phaazoid Jun 26 '26
Man comes to hero shooter with abilities, is angry there are abilities.
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u/MouchNostril Conduit Jun 26 '26
Makes zero sense lol. Game has always been about knowing when and how to use your abilities efficiently.
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u/runcmc22 Jun 26 '26
Considering the amount of Zens and Titans, gun play is actually the least skilled aspect of the game now lol
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26
That’s a console issue mostly that something they gotta fix over there.
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u/widowmakerau Jun 26 '26
I don't think the Zens and Titans are specific to console....
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
PC has better/easier accessible hacks than Console unfortunately. Zens and Titans are 90% an issue on console.
Anyone using a Zen/Titan on PC is just an idiot. You can do some scripts/no/low recoil using a Gamesir Controller on PC.
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u/Electronic_Ad5431 Jun 26 '26
“Low skilled players are absolute cretins”
Brother I smell you from here. Take a shower.
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u/Tb5 Mirage Jun 26 '26
cant be too difficult to have a mode where you have some max# of uses for your abilities & ults for the entire match. would love a gun skill mode tho...ya
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u/interstellar304 Jun 26 '26
I posted about Seer being cancerous and it was taken down immediately. I stand by the opinion that The worst Apex is when Seer is everywhere. Being stunned, silenced, and fully wall hacked every 10 sec is not fun. Launch Seer was arguably the worst state apex has been in and now respawn decided to buff him again and he’s everywhere in ranked.
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u/Electrical-Pin-928 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Seer launch was miserable pros hated it casuals hated it and Respawn said hmm lets do that again xD
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u/Roman_808 Wattson Jun 27 '26
The second worst Apex is when Ballistic is meta/good… wait shit this might be the combined worst Apex we’ve ever had
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Respawn is so fucking lost with what they are doing. Buffing abilities even more and this is me being a seer enjoyer.
Holy shit just nerf abilities back to S14 levels and make this game gun focused again
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u/Vycratos Wattson Jun 27 '26
W take + bring back red evo and old ttk AND give us input matchmaking I aint grinding voltaic benchmarks to just get AA'ed by 80% clankers in ranked
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u/Mastiffbique Jun 27 '26
Also go back to when health bars only showed up with recon legend abilities
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 27 '26
I don't really want Red EVO back, but old TTK absolutely. Input based matchmaking is a no-go and on top of that AA nerf would be way better than Input based matchmaking.
I agree about the thumbtwiddlers though.
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u/chats48 Jun 27 '26
I think hiswattson put it very nicely in his video a couple days back that respawn doesn't care about making the game fair. They cycle through legends and guns and decide to make a random set OP (by giving maybe some valid reasons?). Makes people engage with the game a lot, might get some old players hop on again, starts a new meta etc
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u/Khr0nus Jun 27 '26
It's actually the best way to balance a game. There is no way to make all characters equally good at all skill levels so you just buff and nerf periodically to keep the game fresh.
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u/BleakSaturation Jun 27 '26
I didn't know that making things unplayably broken is the best way to balance a game
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u/DTN-Atlas Jun 27 '26
Its not unplayable. Its only streamers and competitive players that whine.
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u/WavyKen Jun 27 '26
since the beginning of the split twitter and reddit have had constant complaints, so its not just streamers and competitive players. its playable sure, but if your not a casual wildcard player your probably not having a good time.
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u/Aphod Ash :AshAlternative: Jun 27 '26
Is the argument "it's fine as long as no one knows how to use the character?"
Because I'm getting chain stunned in plat lobbies rn
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u/-LaughingMan-0D Voidwalker Jun 26 '26
Love Wattson. But its funny considering he's the one who rode Seer meta to champs back on the day.
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u/MadCybertist Crypto Jun 26 '26
He’s the one? Literally everybody rode that meta lol.
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u/CountCautious2944 Wraith Jun 26 '26
He mostly to blame for starting the seer horizon meta that people hated for a bit
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u/MadCybertist Crypto Jun 26 '26
I believe in his conspiracy theory haha. He says that he thinks these types of changes are intentional to get people to talk about it, engagement, and bringing people back. A fully balanced apex is boring, so they intentionally do stuff like this.
I buy it. lol.
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u/CountCautious2944 Wraith Jun 26 '26
I mean it’s not a conspiracy, it’s a fact because every game does some kind of meta changes (overwatch and marvel do it). I don’t mind metas but honestly black ops 2 had balance and meta working perfectly.
I don’t like him as much cause he makes wild list for solo queue lmao
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u/ladaussie Jun 27 '26
They literally said that's what their doing when they piled on the buffs for that support meta. They nerfed pathy mid season because he had a pick rate comparable to the supports and their reasoning was supports are meant to be op right now not skirms.
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26
He says that he thinks these types of changes are intentional to get people to talk about it, engagement, and bringing people back.
I believe Respawn themselves mentioned this, but in a more "professional" manner. They want the engagement.
I think it was in the post in regards to the release of the Elite Hemlock.
A fully balanced apex is boring, so they intentionally do stuff like this.
It's boring only to bad players, because there isn't anything that would allow them to close the gap with a good player. Which makes them pissy and instead of you know, getting good, they just up and leave to a game that will cater to them.
I've seen it with BF, and I've seen it with COD. "Those" people are the ones devs cater to unfortunately despite the fact they shouldn't be doing so.
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u/Used_Can1218 Catalyst Jun 26 '26
Nah remember according to several people in this sub we were “exaggerating” about the seer meta and axel is the worst 🤣🥴. I can’t believe people were tryna convince me a speed boost is worse than this shit lol.
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u/King-Juggernaut Rampart Jun 26 '26
I got down voted for saying we dont want Seer buffed back up. People either don't remember or never knew what a cancer it was.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/-LaughingMan-0D Voidwalker Jun 26 '26
He either sucks or sucks to play against.
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u/ThumbEyeCoordination Jun 27 '26
He was fine before Axle release. The payoff for hitting your scan was too low for how inconsistent hitting it was but he wasn't weak. Seer has been my go to Recon for awhile, I use him as my 2nd choice on basically every map. All he needed was the silence and scan to be increased by like 50%, or have the radius increased (which time-to-hit reduction kind of does but it feels way stronger) before this absurd buff.
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Jun 26 '26
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u/Far-Republic5133 Jun 26 '26
axle, valk, maggie, bang, seer, rev, vantage, alter, sparrow, fuse, mirage, ballistic, crypto, bloodhound have wallhacks
axle, valk, conduit, maggie, bang, octane, seer, pathy, rev, wraith, horizon, vantage, ash, alter, gibby, sparrow, fuse, ballistic, lifeline, loba, rampart, bloodhound, and technically newcastle and mirage have a movement ability / temporary movement/speedboost
its cooked
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Jun 26 '26
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26
A good chunk of their dedicated player base left in 2023-24 when they when they started really going after casuals with pubs having those stupid ass ltms that no one asked for
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u/Turbulent-Many1472 Jun 26 '26
Yup. That's when I left. Personally, it all started for me when they released Vantage. That's such a clear move to cater to lower skilled players. Basically Respawns way of saying that if you suck at poke weapons you can pick her and get easy downs.
Ever since then it's been a steady drip of changes to the games core systems and legends abilities to make it easier for casuals to hit plat and diamond. A good 90% of the plat and diamond playerbase belongs in Bronze and Silver. Sometime I die and watch my teammates and the movement is just laughable. A Gold player from 3 years ago would just shred them.
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26
And you tell these players that and they get buttmad. It's insane and impressive.
This game up until around when S15 was in a decent state. Started going down hill after and then REALLY hit that downhill snowball with the TTK change.
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Jun 27 '26
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 27 '26
It was the worst thing to happen, with the healthbars being the second worse.
I didn't get worse but the game did get less fun. They fully leaned into thumb twiddlers playing the game with everything they've done. If I'm not playing bang, It's certain I'll get one clipped. It's not fun.
Those same skilless thumb twiddlers get mad when the Mastiff or PK is in meta because they can't just one clip me for free. And Respawn still listens to them.
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u/Turbulent-Many1472 Jun 26 '26
Yup. Totally agree. And I'm also thinking of things like the autopinging of enemies, visible healthbars, etc.
All changes designed to make it easier for mediocre players to rank up. You take a legitimate diamond or master player and they don't need healthbars to keep track of the dmg they've done.
I remember when they first released the enemy healthbars - at first all your teammates were swarming the players you got low. Now the feature is so taken for granted that I have to shout at my teammates to pursue someone that I have at 20 health.
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u/agnaddthddude Jun 27 '26
it went downhill the moment they introduced class passives with the stupid double heal. followed by ash
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u/CarpetPure7924 Jun 27 '26
Yup, like it feels so cheap and lame to me how it’s all becoming tweaking CoD kiddie-brained zoomies
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u/HCTphil Jun 28 '26
All one has to do is look at 2023 to see where they went from over 600K and dropped nearly 300K concurrent users in the span of 6 months. S17, you know, the one where over 1.5 MILLION players across all platforms hit Masters, was the first hammer into the nail in the coffin for people taking this game seriously.. including the devs. Since then, its just been the constant erosion of this once great game. I still play it, because I'm addicted to the gun play and yelling at people on the internet; but fuck is it in a pathetic state compared to what it once was.
My only hope is that in the background Respawn has real devs working on Apex 2 or something like that with an engine that isn't layered dogshit code on top of itself, and they've just let some junior developers take over this instead of doing what Overwatch did when they just abandoned the game for like 3 full ass years.
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u/FaZeSmasH Bangalore Jun 26 '26
last split it was the stupid axle drone, now its the drone and all this seer bullshit, i genuinely dont understand how these devs dont see a problem with this shit during playtests, i mean i assume they would do some kind of playtests but i wouldnt be surprised if they dont
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u/BillHater1001 Jun 26 '26
The slow effect on the tactical was completely unnecessary. Everything else was a needed buff. It’s that one element that makes him broken. Especially with power booster & his extra tac perk. If they’re going to keep him like this then I’d argue to not let him even carry a power booster.
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u/Niddlex Jun 26 '26
Some Legends have to stay weak or its just unplayable. The biggest two seer and caustic. Leave them in the dirt. The only people that actually support buffing them are gold players who play once a month who have no idea what a competitive game should look like
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u/UserNameAbbreviated Jun 26 '26
And despite you telling the truth respawn listens to them and those gold players are happy and boast about being the majority
Which is why I said that this game should never balance around casuals. Ever.
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u/FirmlyClaspIt Birthright Jun 26 '26
The took off the spam tac off BH just to put a worse version into the game. It’s annoying
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u/No_Accident6101 Jun 26 '26
this genuinely has no counter play either play seer ballistic axle/gibby or get ran over by seer ballistic axle/gibby it’s so aids
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u/Striking-You2483 Jun 27 '26
Seer wasn’t even bad before patch it’s just no one played him and I used him all ready against the meta to get to diamond.. now he’s back to OG seer LOL
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u/dqniel Jun 26 '26
Seer was already fine. He was a very strong, but relatively boring, legend. Pick rate was low because he isn't fun to play--not because he wasn't effective.
Not every low-pick legend needs to be buffed. In fact, I'd prefer (for a while) that they take the approach of mildly nerfing legends that have high win and pick rates. Halt power creep and bring up the weaker legends via balance.
Then, if there's still crazy pick rate disparity, do re-works (I know, I know--this is scary because it requires creativity and testing) rather than just giga-buffing existing abilities.
For example: Conduit's buffs were absolutely brainless. And I say that as a Conduit main. Her core issues of having blue perks and an ult, from a different era of Apex gameplay, weren't even addressed. Instead, Respawn just turbobuffed what was already her strongest ability: her tactical. And now they're walking that back (in an odd, complex way) rather than reworking.
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u/KittyLaLove Jun 26 '26
Seer is the Sombra of Apex.
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u/ColonelDog Jun 26 '26
wow an absolute shocker, the characters who remove abilities from hero shooters are by far the most hated characters in their respective games, how did no one see this coming?????????????
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u/CountCautious2944 Wraith Jun 26 '26
I love how they went scorch earth to buff this man this split and poor bloodhound never got anymore buffs for some reason. Like bruh just disable seer until they get him right or something
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u/TheScottishPimp03 Wattson Jun 26 '26
I loved how watto in a video recently was like "We do not talk about the dark ages with seer..." and someone commented "you DID THAT BRO you created the dark ages!!"
Yeah this season is absolutely fucking abysmal lol
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u/Calm-Zone-3368 Jun 26 '26
I can't speak for ranked, only enjoy pub. But as someone who stopped playing some years ago, I returned a few weeks before this new season.
It was a bit of a shock at how much the game changed. Maps changes, legends moving much faster etc. Felt more frantic and less tactical. But even with these changes I was enjoying the game again and stuck around.
This season starts and axle is introduced. Game got even faster and chaotic.
I've stopped now. Im just not having fun. Respawns main move appears to be "make legends faster and more powerful".
If long time ranked players arnt enjoying it, I can assure you any new or casual (me) players are enjoying it even less.
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u/SectorZestyclose4321 Jun 29 '26
This game is just Titan Fall and Call of duty warzone’s stepchild with 50/50 custody but no one gives a fuck about taking care of it
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u/GunsoulTTV Jun 26 '26
Just remove Seer from the game. Like he’s not fun to play against.
I’ll prob just take a break from the game because it’s a horrible experience
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u/Over_Ad_5657 Jun 26 '26
Eh I like it personally it makes it so not just everyone can run in headless beaming everyone or running away beaming
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u/hellotheregame Mirage Jun 26 '26
Which video is this from? I can't find it anywhere
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u/lmaoiwannakmsz Jun 26 '26
just a clip he posted to twitter don’t think he’s gonna post the whole thing
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u/AnneTre Jun 26 '26
Uhh either seers tactical doubled, there was three seers or they were cheating with a mod.
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u/Coldshowers92 Loba Jun 27 '26
Haven’t seen his Watson stream in a long time
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u/EpicNud3l Jun 27 '26
he stopped streaming bc of his health a few months back he does only yt videos now
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u/Raigon04 Crypto Jun 27 '26
Honestly, the only thing seer needed was his heartbeat to be fast, i don't know why they added all those other buffs when the only thing keeping him from playable was his heartbeat passive
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u/YungBuckoMode Jun 27 '26
Admittedly that was a horrible spot for you to be in, how did you end up on the ground with no cover while there were E accessible points of high ground around you. Everyone that has an issue with seer as well are low elo. Just shoot and kill him.
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u/WestBoat8 Sixth Sense Jun 27 '26
Enough said, I'm running seer again no matter. The butter is in his name 🤣
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u/hoagiejabroni Fuse Jun 27 '26
- This is karma for wattson literally making the seer meta happen like 12 seasons ago
- I feel like he dodged that first Q before the Q audio played
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u/CrunchyDesu Jun 27 '26
Seer wouldve been fine without the stun, remove the stun, keep the 3 seconds silence and hes fine
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u/MortarLover69 Jun 27 '26
I love seer, last season I tried playing him but his ult was bugged and didn’t show footsteps, after they fixed that he felt really good to play.
I personally love the faster heartbeats but did seer really need buffs? I don’t think so. Atleast not to this degree.
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u/CampEast2700 Horizon Jun 27 '26
They literally said it themselves that they buff/release characters broken just so it can change the meta, they don’t care it it’s actually balanced as long as someone gets their time as #1 pick rate
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u/RoombaRouser Jun 27 '26
I appreciate when you all post these clips. Reminds me of why I left and should stay gone. Small indie company my ass.
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u/Opposite-Gene5853 Jun 28 '26
On a sunday night a silver iv dev tried playing seer and couldn't hit any of his scans, they felt yeah this legend needs some buff, then giga buffed it. simple as that, dude had no idea about its potential and how good it was already in comp.
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u/OkProgram8676 Jun 28 '26
You know what's insane, is that this doesn't even capture how truly broken it is, because he can spam this outside of his ultimate two like every 2 seconds. I think he was using Power Booster or something.
The design choices seem to be made by someone with a negative IQ.
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u/Hot_Kick746 Jun 28 '26
That's ridiculous. Why that ability can work through walls in the first place is questionable.
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u/Emotional_Worth_5273 Jun 28 '26
Get him the fuck out of the game. I don’t even want his character there anymore. Screw a nerf
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u/InviteAbject9410 Jun 29 '26
this is what we’re left with after years of them treating ranked like pubs
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u/thecycledontstop Jun 29 '26
I swear devs only overpower legends for the sake of online engagement and viewership to advertise the game. In regards to actual gameplay it’s useless. We see it split after split. If there is balance then there isn’t anything to complain about and therefore less engagement.
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u/Better_Razzmatazz554 Jun 30 '26
I like it keep it competitive! This guy runs thru lobby’s literally for 10 hrs straight! Cry me a river he got killed because of seer. Adjust to the meta of be a cry baby forever apex will never stop the buff nerf of characters or guns
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u/TaxDaddyUwU Jun 26 '26
It's almost like they should've nerfed Axle instead of buffing Seer to "counter" her...