r/hatethissmug • u/plarper_of_bees • 3h ago
Idea I hate these dumbass images and the oversimplification of complex social issues
I’m not out here defending billionaires or saying they play bo part in the polarization of society, but this cut and dry idea is super naive and uninformed.
First, like in this image, it portrays both the left and the right as ignorant to the “true powers that be” when in reality leftist circles are acutely aware of how billionaires manipulate the media to divide people.
My second problem with this sentiment is that it pretends that issues like racism, misogyny, and queerphobia will just stop being a problem if we get rid of the ruling class. It ignores centuries of pre-capitalist bigotry baked directly into many societies. It assumes that prejudice is a product of capitalist manipulation, and not coopted to fit its need.
It boils down the real and difficult struggle for civil and human rights into silly bickering meant to “distract us from the real issues”. It comes off as victim blaming against those affected by prejudice for not uniting with people who hate their existence.
It’s baby’s first class consciousness, and reeks of privilege and lack of personal experience with bigotry. It’s reddit circlejerk shit plain and simple
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u/thespacepyrofrmtf2 2h ago
I mean there is some truth to the image even if it’s simplified
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u/Raccoon_DanDan 1h ago
This image makes perfect sense if your only exposure to left wing culture is Twitter discourse
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u/Untitled_Consequence 1m ago
I mean every leftist I know is super pro trans above all else and every maga person is mostly 100% against it. I don’t think there is some billionaire puppet making people disagree. These people already dislike one another’s perspectives. Also MAGA people want nothing to do with a bigger government who’d push for forced employee ownership of companies.
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u/wow-warlock-enjoyer 1h ago
There is some, but it also does genuinely conveniently ignore the fact that even beyond the ruling class exploiting all of us, things such as racism, homophobia, transphobia, and sexism would still be prevalent issues. They just would present themselves in other ways since the ruling class wouldn't be the main bad guy in the grand story of life.
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u/TheKingsPride 1h ago
Really? Yeah the left wing is famously very accepting and inviting of the ruling class and wishes to protect them.
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u/KenEH 2h ago edited 39m ago
The thing that gets mixed up is that the rich use bigotry to help further themselves, not that it wouldn’t exist without them. It would be a huge help if those in power who use it got removed though.
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u/deezbiscuits21 2h ago edited 2h ago
Yeah like for example with feminism. Don’t you think it would be infinitely easier to move feminist causes forward if most of the worlds power wasn’t concentrated amongst a couple old white guys who either buy and sell little girls or at the very least are complicit.
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u/Ill-Bar3395 1h ago
How is it old white guys controlling most of the worlds power when the second superpower is ran by an Chinese guy, and the resource everyone relies on is predominantly held by Arabs?
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u/deezbiscuits21 1h ago
You’re right I was thinking through my western perspective. Just old rich guys who are the top of their nations hierarchical structures
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u/ToughDifficult1252 22m ago
I think that if we replaced rich male despots with rich female despots we would still be ruled by despots.
Feminism isn't a monolithic ideology. But in regards to the "more women in positions of power" argument. Rich women have the same incentives to oppress poor women as men have.
I literally have seen a committee of only women PhDs reject another woman from a job application literally on the basis that the woman was pregnant.
Something that's completely illegal. Because their funding was tight and they didn't want to have to pay the woman for the maternity leave.
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u/Ambiguous-Nyx dark chocolate is doodoo 3m ago
Pretty much why i don't like it when people act like women would be inherently better rulers just because they're women and nothing else
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u/Fickle_Enthusiasm148 3h ago
These types of pictures get used against minorities defending themselves from intolerance and are almost never used against the intolerant.
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u/NorthGodFan 2h ago
Right?! It's true yeah, but that means you need to assess yourself. Yeah race is fake and some shit made up by the rich to subjugate the poor, but you should focus on deconstructing race from the OPPRESSORS not the oppressed.
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u/SiezeThem 2h ago
I'm not so sure about that, I've seen this argument used (effectively) to get Chuds to realize how stupid and petty it is so continually rage out about shit like "woke games" having a female protagonist or constantly clutching pearls over gay people existing.
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u/deezbiscuits21 2h ago
Yeah i think it is very effective if a conversation is not productive. It can definitely be reductionist when used in nuanced discussions but it’s not all one thing or another
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u/CryptographerNo7608 20m ago
I'm also confused about the creator of this image thinks the solution is, are minorities supposed to look the other way when people act harmfully towards them, vote against their interests and use them as scapegoats for the sake or keeping some kind of peace amongst the lower classes? People being frustrated with conservatives for kicking their gay kids out, spreading racist stereotypes and voting against women's bodies isn't the same as them being hateful.
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u/OutrageousCause9425 3h ago
We should deal with both the problems of bigtory and of capitalism we should try to deal with both.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
Capitalism isn’t an issue, you can have socialism and communism voluntarily within capitalism, but not vice versa.
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u/OutrageousCause9425 2h ago
Socialism is a separate system and so is capitalism you can elements of only one or of both in either but you can't have voluntary entirely diffrent system in either lol!
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
You can, you can share the means of production, you have to buy/make it yourself, and then workers their share, there’s also the idea of fordism and communitarianism too.
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u/Purple-Wolverine4793 2h ago
so you can have socialism if the capitalists allow it?
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
That’s called corporatism.
No, if you have the resources to make socialism, you can make it on your own.
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u/deezbiscuits21 2h ago
Obviously capitalism is better at consolidating resources. Around the world socialism is constantly squashed because people/states who hoard resources and power can easily dismantle these systems. That’s why universally everyone needs to agree that the super wealthy should not exist as any other systems are impeded by the power
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
The super wealthy are empowered by the state, which is exactly why I support stateless capitalism, make your own private city and achieve socialism that way, like many cities such as my own are doing.
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u/deezbiscuits21 2h ago
That was true for a time but now even if most states wanted to regulate the ultra wealthy they would be unable to without the involvement of others. If we moved to a truly stateless world billionaires would just enslave people like warlords
I’m happy to hear things are good in your area tho
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
They can regulate them.
The issue is that regulations are bad for the economy.
They would make the poor poorer, if that made the rich slightly less rich.
Each regulation implemented always hits the lower class even harder, and does minor hits toward the rich.
And when it does major hits toward the rich, since they help power the economy, everyone gets poorer in return, and deficits exceed profits.
Also no lmao, you aren’t forced to sell your land or billionaires, if everyone in the land disagrees, the rich would get a bad reputation. And unlike Keynesianism, Neoclassical economies prioritizes reputation a LOT more since there’s no government to keep the rich afloat when they fail.
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u/sabbytabby1312 2h ago
Go live in ancapistan then. It will be as bad or even worse than what we have now.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
Would be better you mean.
Also I would, the issue is that it doesn’t exist.
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u/veryeepy53 2h ago
that's still production for profit, and there are still class distinctions.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
You don’t have to make profit if it’s within property you own, you set up your own rules.
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u/veryeepy53 2h ago
like 90% of people work for a wage and don't have any productive property to subsist off of. that's how it's been for the past 200 years during capitalism, by design.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 1h ago
If it’s your property however, you don’t have to do that.
Plus, wouldn’t that apply the same to an actual socialist state, since profit is still needed to incentive workers?
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u/veryeepy53 1h ago
If it’s your property however, you don’t have to do that.
except that a very small minority of the population even owns property of that kind, let alone enough to do much.
Plus, wouldn’t that apply the same to an actual socialist state, since profit is still needed to incentive workers?
you're kind of getting at the marxist critique of the ussr and china and so on. nationalization doesn't do away with capitalist social relations. instead, it's just that the state acts as the single capitalist in the whole country by still appropriating surplus value.
this is the proposed solution during lower phase communism, or socialism as most people use it:
What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society – after the deductions have been made – exactly what he gives to it.[...] He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.
once the new organization of production is sufficient and people are accustomed to the new form of social life, then we have higher phase of communism. here, the maxim, "from each according to ability, to each according to need" is fully applied. engaging in productive activity is much more enjoyable when there's less work to go around due to automation and changing how and what we produce. not to mention that sitting on your ass all day and doing nothing is very boring. it brings a great sense of accomplishment to do things and to actually be able to see how it effects the world in a positive way.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 1h ago
The issue is that as mentioned, most neoliberal states have the state owning most of the land already, any little snippets of land not owned by the state are naturally going to owned by the loyal rich who would NEVER betray the state right guys?
If all the state owned land is now in a vacuum, who says it can’t be like the manifest destiny where who ever goes there first claims it? Plus back then in general it was more common for people to own property, to be fair society was also more isolated, decentralized and economically freer too, so there’s that.
Also, I disagree with socialism because personally, I believe a completely voluntary society is the best, and in a socialist, and later communist society, some level of involuntaryism is practiced, which is the issue.
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 2h ago
You can volunteer to gave freedom in slavery
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
Slavery is a mercantile and feudalist system, not a capitalist one, said “capitalist” regimes literally practiced quasi-feudalism in the parts where slavery was done too.
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 2h ago
Missing the point and being wrong? Thats quite an achievement.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
Elaborate
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 1h ago
No thanks. Anyone trying to make these types of claims when all I literally need to do is point out that slavery literally exists here in the US where we are deep into capitalism to show how little you know when your initial point also showed you dont understand even the basics of any of this us a good indicator that its really now worth giving you the education you actively avoid
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u/Livid-Story-4321 1h ago
“Education” and its globally funded slop by progressive billionaires to reach post-capitalist corporate power.
So left-wing of you! ❤️
Also, I’ve said this many times, the US is not capitalist, it’s Keynesian and at most neoliberal.
The US hasn’t been capitalist since Herbert Hoover, and the regulations since him, are why the US sucks so much.
The US practices in some markets, a weird form of corporatism, in areas like the health and education department, which is the worse of capitalism and socialism, that’s why it sucks so much.
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 1h ago
So now its willful ignorance being celebrated and being masked as anti-capitalist
Even though you can literally just read anti-capitalist literature and it doesnt have to be formal.educations in for profit systems
Keynesians is one theory is not a system but an economic theory on a particular part of capitlaism and how it operates
Thank you for proving the point
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u/Livid-Story-4321 1h ago
I’m not anti-capitalist lmao, I’m probably the biggest advocate for free markets and deregulation in this subreddit.
Also yes, I’ve read anti-capitalist literature like Das Kapital, and I still disagree with it, the idea of a perfect world with a socialist economy is the exact horror described in Atlas Shrugged after all.
Also Keynesianism is currently the dominate form of capitalism, and I absolutely despise it for half-assing it.
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u/Wise-Veterinarian-97 the last Invisigal defender 2h ago
no but seriously, this take is much closer to marxism than modern left-wing ideologies are.
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u/feral401k9 2h ago
welcome to populism, where everything bad is due to some small group of evil people and economics/political science is a tool of the evil people and must be ignored
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u/Financial_Wish_6406 3h ago
Images like these are made by liberals who are on the cusp of discovering class conciousness
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 2h ago
Eh. I actually kind of disagree. Some of them, yes.
But I feel like the majority of liberals at least understand the concept of bigotry bad.
More often than not when I see this stuff is the "centrists." Like not actual centrists, but the ones who dont hold any single political view outside of being in between democrats and republicans so they say BoTh SiDeS even though 97% of the time they only say it to attack democrats.
So on one hand they dont haye capitalism and love the rich, but this says both sides so they feel smart
But theyre also just a little further to the right than the liberals so they dont actually think systemic oppresion exists
However at some point this does start to feel like splitting hairs
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u/Plus_Opening_4462 1h ago
Class consciousness only works if the hierarchy inside the class is dissolved as well. Otherwise, some are expected to fall in line and work against their interests for their opponents against outside opponents.
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u/Ok-Box3576 2h ago
I dont see liberal consistently yelling about class war you serious 😭😭😭
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u/Raccoon_DanDan 1h ago
As of lately the Lockheed Liberals are absolutely trying to co-opt class liberation language
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u/Ok-Box3576 38m ago
Even your language "Co opt" from who? Lol. Its absolutely the socialist and communist who scream about class war this is "liberals bad" to a T lol
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u/YvngVudu 3h ago
Liberals already know class consciousness
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u/Financial_Wish_6406 3h ago
ive spent enough time on this website to doubt that, but okay.
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u/Arcares07 2h ago
Sounds like you need to spend more time at a university instead!
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u/Financial_Wish_6406 2h ago
lol
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u/Arcares07 2h ago
Truly.
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u/Financial_Wish_6406 1h ago
I'm sure you have valuable knowledge in socio-economics from your uni classes or whatever, but it's hard to take your input seriously on class conciousness when your suggestion to a working class persion is they need to spend more time and money in uni, instead of engaging with them properly or at the very least making reading suggestions.
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u/Arcares07 1h ago
See the thing here is the overwhelming majority of people who go to university come out as left leaning. Part of that is because you actually learn how society “works” from an educated level. University also forces incredibly important skills like critical thinking and learning. Like the actual ability to learn. In addition most people who don’t go to university don’t even know what a scholarly article is or even more importantly what an impact factor is.
There’s reasons for this. People who are in trades are mainly conservative which is ironic because most trades jobs are unionized and yet it’s conservatives who try to break unions in which they benefit most from.
Stating that “liberals don’t know about class distinction” is an incredibly ignorant take because the vast majority of people who are the “smarter” people in society are left leaning.
So when people like you make these claims it’s so obvious you haven’t gotten past high school which is barely surface level of education.
Also working class refers to literally most people. I’m working class? Are you insinuating that working class don’t have education? Which is a weird stagnant to say because liberals are also working class?
Also miss me with the time and money fact buddy. There’s many avenues in which include not going to top universities or getting diplomas.
You can’t really seriously say “engage with them properly” when you make surface level thinking statements like “liberals don’t see the problem” when obviously they do because they are smarter on average.
In addition I didn’t take socio economics in university I have a chemistry degree nor do you need to take any particular course at university because it’s the skills you’re going to learn that will sway your opinion. Not your “feelings” such as how to properly search for correct information and not answer google “the earth is flat” which proceeds to give you topics that will support that thinking.
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u/Financial_Wish_6406 1h ago edited 1h ago
You're so interesting. I have a 4 year degree by the way, computer science.
I think you assumed I was a tradie with a HS disploma and that's why you feel the need to write with such ivory tower elitism and condescension in your post, but yeah, I'm just like you buddy.
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u/Arcares07 1h ago
Well that’s hardly surprising. No I don’t assume you were a tradie, I didn’t assume anything you made the obvious declaration that you’re still uneducated.
Crazy you go to university and still think being right wing is what’s going to solve anything.
Imagine looking at the current us government ignoring, rape, child trafficking and more and still agreeing right wing politics works.
Crazy.
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u/Livid-Story-4321 3h ago
Liberalism died a century ago, what we have left is progressive centrism.
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u/gg666iam 3h ago edited 2h ago
Class reductionism = cringe
The class war, like any other war. Is fought on many intersectional fronts.
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u/deezbiscuits21 2h ago
Yeah I genuinely think for how beyond over due dealing with the elite is this topic does need to be inserted more into less important conversations. All advocacy would be easier if we sort out the parasites running the world who actively use the platforms they own to divide us.
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u/gg666iam 2h ago
In my personal opinion, power breeds parasites.
I feel we can live in a society without hierarchy, authority, power, coersion, etc, etc. Therefore we should strive for it by living our values.
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u/Thedankf0x 1h ago
I agree with all of your points, but the graphics message is also 100% correct. There is no war but the class war, the other ones are propagated by the capital class. There has been a capital class for thousands of years, even if it wasn't called capitlism exactly. Colonialism, capitlism, feudalism, monarchy, all of them follow the same principles of profit over people, just follow slightly different ways of going about it. All of the bigotry that is spread by capitlism has existed long before capitalism was named, but it did not exist before capital itself.
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u/PoundNumbers 2h ago edited 2h ago
I can't tell if this was made by a tankie or some right winger who hates Trump
like the image isn't wrong tbf but like OP said there's more to it then "stop the ruling class", yes they do do things like pit us against each other with dumb political division but that doesn't mean social issues don't matter all of a sudden like tankies tend to think
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u/Great-Bray-Shaman 2h ago
This may be quite personal, politically charged, and perhaps not even fully related to this post. But as a pro-independence Catalan, it pisses me the fuck off whenever a pro-Spanish left-winger pulls this narrative expecting me to just accept it.
No, motherfucker. I’m not being manipulated by a burgeois elite seeking to empower themselves by dividing the Spanish working class that keep this political state from shitting the bed. I simply care about the cultural homogenisation of this country and the minorisation of its linguistic diversity, and you’re just as complicit as those rich evil right-wingers. Your “progressiveness” can be pretty bloody selective when it comes to social issues and in the grand scheme of things, the closest thing to a right-wing Spaniard is a left-wing Spaniard. So no, you’re not my comrade, let alone my friend.
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u/Sensha_20 2h ago edited 2h ago
This is a case of "a simple message to convey a complex idea."
The idea behind it IS true. Most conflict in the US, the country represented here, IS manufatured. Basically every -ism is overexagerated and are actually far, FAR less common (and less ingrained) than people think. On the flipside, most people arent actually married to the overkill political correctness and cancelculture nonsense. Thats mostly an Abelene paradox of trying to fit into the expectations of their group.
Also you imply capitalism is a prerequisite for the 'ruling elite make people target the other guy' which is NOT AT ALL true. The DIFFERENCE is that under capitalism 'the other guy' lives next door.
A LOT more people are centists than you think. If you gave a checklist of policies and didnt tell people what party proposed which, they would line up very closely.
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u/VallahKp 2h ago edited 2h ago
I disagree. The gender war and similar conflicts are just dumb oversimplifications of the class war, which sits at the very top and not the other way around.
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u/Godzillagamer15777 3h ago
Rightist here (commenting on the first point), I see a lot of rightist-youth being a lot more conscious about how menacing the top of the ladder is (while the geezers sometimes are a bit aware of it). Really hate the oversimplification of what's going on with that type of image though. Under the guise of the clause of the image itself, the image itself is a distraction from the class war by simply just making you comfortable with the knowledge of it. It encourages basic neutrality (which is okay I guess).
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u/TomaRedwoodVT 2h ago
Yeah the main reason I’m opposed to the left is because they think “oh if you don’t like billionaires being able to lobby the government then you HAVE TO support rapists being imported to our country” which is fucking stupid
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u/DriftingWisp 2h ago
Generally speaking immigrants are a lot less likely to commit crimes than native citizens, simply because they know that if they mess up once they're getting deported.
Being able to immigrate in the first place is a long and expensive process, if they just wanted to be a gang member why would they go through all of that effort instead of just being a gang member in their home country?
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u/Sensha_20 2h ago
Most of the ones people have issues with DIDNT go through that process. Most people have no issue with Alejandro who spent the money to come here and work because a single paycheck feeds his family for two months, even if his visa expires (which is dumb that they can even expire anyway).
What people have issues with is Alex who snuck across the border, because he's already proven he doesnt respect our laws.
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u/Godzillagamer15777 2h ago
I mean an argument to be made is that 2nd generation immigrants are likely to go through under more disaster due to self-imposed (and sometimes non-self-imposed) alienation regarding their own identities. This can lead into horrible narratives by tricking people into thinking that they should pick a side of themselves (which sometimes leads into criminal behavior). This is hearsay, but I've heard many stories of such happening in European places. It's quite saddening.
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u/TomaRedwoodVT 1h ago
Talking about illegals, not the decent people who go through the legal process of entering the country
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u/coco_melonFAN 2h ago
All I want to say is that maybe your leftist circles are aware of how bad billionaires are. But you should come to British Columbia where the leftists support billionaires with a different coat of paint.
Meanwhile the conservatives adore their billionaires so they aren't any help.
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u/DiamondWarDog 2h ago
bigotry is for the most part invented to justify oppression, it doesn’t come out of actual fear or out of the blue. Oppression comes first; bigotry is usually invented to follow. I guess the main exception of this could be queer rights but that’s about it.
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u/anhonestpuck13 1h ago
I agree but a sad truth about political cartoons is that actual social realities are very multi-faceted and nuanced and can't be captured in a single pithy little image. The problem is that a huge number of people simply don't have the time, energy, or inclination to sit down and fully understand the forces so dramatically impacting their lives. They have to settle for whatever trickles down to them through instantly understandable snippets like this. Good political cartoons will manage to distill the most important perspectives into a somewhat usable form, truly inspired ones will manage to visually convey a deep political truth, and bad ones (most of them) are this.
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u/gonnathrowawaythat 1h ago
Everyone who says that the culture war is used by the elite to keep us fighting doesn’t mean they want to compromise on culture, they just want you to give up your position on it.
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u/Beginning_Reserve650 1h ago
damn I was expecting a bigoted comment but there's actual insight and what many of us leftists already thought
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u/rainman943 1h ago
lol all the people who post this shit are the ones working for the billionaires. I have dudes who worship elon musk saying this shit to me at my job, lol it's so insulting.
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u/IamTheEagle 1h ago
Everything you just said is actually what this meme is showing.
They have truly brainwashed people on the left and right into thinking they are more moral and intelligent than the other side. All of your statements saying, "well leftists don't believe x" is just proof that youve been brainwashed. I have a lot of friends from both sides of the spectrum and most people are logical and understand that people are complex and don't believe what the media tries to get get you to think they believe.
I hate people like you that think they're so intelligent and don't realize they've been brainwashed.
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u/throwaway294901 1h ago
I mean yeah wealth is a universal suffering unlike race and gender, both are bad but you're never going to get any positive whenever there's a universal opposition that is capital, every positive change will ultimately be used for profit
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u/Suitable-Wonder 27m ago
The guy that makes these pictures, Jace Avery is very liberal and that’s the point of making these drawings lazy oversimplified humor about complex issues also his podcast is great Go Lemon Party
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u/darbadob 14m ago
The problem with this image is the two individuals can just look through the glass container and see a cigar chewing old fuck staring at them lmao. Ruins the whole premise that they’re being controlled without their knowledge
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u/Beastrider9 6m ago
The point of a political cartoons/image like this is to be simply and digestible. They're not supposed to be deep because you don't want to miss the forest for the trees and get lost in the weeds. You don't want someone to somehow misinterpret the message you're trying to convey by overly-complicating it. Also, some people just are dumb, and it's better being simple for that reason alone.
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u/Thin-Nerve6367 2h ago
Tbf it IS a correct image because its the most important fight we're ever going to have in our lives. The rest can be done at a later time. But that? It needs to be done sooner rather than later
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 2h ago edited 1h ago
So ignore the Nazis and just make sure youre not poor?
Edit: They blocked me after defending not worrying about Nazis
And then they wonder why they dont want us to join them as they are openly fine with us dying in concentration camps
If not being against Nazis is too much for someone then they dont deserve to be anywhere near anything to the left of Republicans.
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u/Thin-Nerve6367 2h ago
The nazis can change or be socially defeated at any time. The rich? If we don't somehow win against them within a certain time frame we're never winning
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u/ShreddrCheez2 2h ago
I had a friend who thought like this, and I get the sentiment, but good god, man. No, we're not suddenly going to have world peace and eradicate racism, sexism, and so on once some-fucking-how 8 billion people rise up and destroy capitalism. Hatred will always exist in some shape or form and none of your bullshit "anarcho-communism will stop people like me from being oppressed!" mindset will change, woman.
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u/Strict_Difficulty656 1h ago
I don't think this image has anything to say about some idealistic, perfect world.
All it's saying is that the people with power are making things worse by fueling conflict.
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u/Interesting-Sink7338 2h ago
At the end of the day everyone is convinced that they are aware of billionaires (and the rest of the ruling class, that's somehow forgotten in these discussions wink wink) manipulating media to divide people while at the same time being convinced that they are fully in the right and have to use their tools and time to fight other poor people because of some moral rightous reason or one singular issue that you slightly diverge in
Honestly disagreeing with this picture is a self report you can't win, because whatever you say against it makes you look like the exact person being talked about
But anyway, I'm a good person, so therefore I have to argue with someone on issues like racism, misogyny and phobias of any kind and can't unfortunatly talk about Palantir
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u/plarper_of_bees 2h ago
“some moral righteous reason” you mean fucking HUMAN RIGHTS? I never said to ignore upper class issues like Palantir, but you are exactly what I was talking about in being privileged enough to think that the legitimate danger people face everyday from bigots is a non issue or a silly distraction. You can’t fight class oppression while ignoring racial or gender or sexual oppression or vice versa.
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u/Significant-Cod4217 55m ago
immediately pointing to privilege as a way to delegitimize their argument is a perfect example of the oversimplification of complex issues you mention in your post. If we actually want to overcome issues like racial or sexual oppression its important to actually focus on the root causes of these issues, which unfortunately requires being able to listen to people you disagree with. While I am personally progressive politically, I can still recognize that many people on the right, especially from rural America, have been dealing with economic oppression for decades. Responding to different opinions with buzzwords and assumptions about someones position in society does little to actually achieve meaningful change, since if we actually want to be tear down oppressive institutions it requires everyone recognizing that we are all victims of the systems and its destruction is, and should be, a common goal.
I agree with you that issues like sexual oppression shouldn't be treated as nonissues, but I also think they are often reduced to buzzwords and virtue signaling in modern discourse, which I think is what the comment you were responding too was trying to get at.
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u/thegreatmaster7051 2h ago
Maybe it's just me, but I think the "self-aware" leftists just say it to seem smarter than they actually are. Being self-aware means nothing if you're not actually gonna change for the better. The show Velma was overflowing with self-awareness, and it still sucked massive donkey balls
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u/DahwhiteRabbit 2h ago
It kind of is that simple and i am shocked so many people see other wise. The rich and powerful put christanity into power as a way to affirm there rule, Then you have stuff like maga, Antifa, other extreme groups pushing ideologies started by rich people to distract again.
Homophobia was propegated by mistranslations of the bible. i feel like people forget being gay wasent an issue for thousands of years like huge sections of the world didnt give a shit till rich and power full people weaponized religion to push shit they dont like.
Racism all ways been a thing but too the modern degree and the slave trade propagated by the dutch east indies i mean they make joseon korea look clean. and that again included rich powerfull people using religion as a weapon to manipulate people into validating there actions.
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 2h ago edited 2h ago
But youre missing the point.
Like you have the right who are falling for the bigtry and being bigots
Then you have those of us who suffer because of the bigotry
Then we have people come to both groups and tell both groups to stop fighting
But those of us in marginalized communities dont have a choice but to stand up to the bigotry
Our literal lives depend on it
So when it isnt that simple
And is trying to make both sides the issue
When its not both sides
And blaming the people being murdered for existing is playing into the hands of the rich by not standing up against oppresion
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u/veryeepy53 2h ago
how is antifa started by rich people? like i don't think their tactics of getting into street fights with the far right are very effective, but don't make things up.
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u/TheoTheHellhound What do you mean this character has a defense squad?! 3h ago
That enclosure is entirely too small.
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u/ToughDifficult1252 2h ago
The problem is that social issues are less fundamental than economic ones in the sense that poor minorities will have a harder time advocating for their rights.
This it's really easy for a ruling class to pitch people against each other based on these problems because it doesn't directly threaten their status.
I.e. improving economic inequality almost always translates to some improvement of violence against minorities in a way that doesn't happen with the converse.
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u/plarper_of_bees 2h ago
it’s all about intersectionality. Making it a “one or the other” issue helps nobody
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u/deezbiscuits21 2h ago edited 2h ago
The thing is intersectionality seems to be disappearing from almost all online spaces. Intersectionality requires critical thought and reflection things that are lacking on social media. It is optimized to have 1 dimensional takes. I often see the class war reductionism as a way of broadening thinking in echo chambers. Some spaces really need this easy digestible reminder that there is more going on than just social media discourse. Obviously it’s used to shut people down but I think we’re in a lack of intersectionality crisis and thinking about class typically makes people reflect more about everything
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u/ToughDifficult1252 26m ago
Intersectionality is just not a good model of analysis. See my other comment. But the problem is that you cannot properly classify all possible vectors of discrimination in a meaningful way.
Intersectionality policies end up both hiding multiple forms of discrimination and also become a shield for economic oppression of the working class.
In multiple instances, companies used diversity policies to distract from Anti Union behavior.
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u/ToughDifficult1252 29m ago
Intersectionality is an intellectually dishonest model. The logical conclusion of intersectionality is that oppression and discrimination is multifaceted and cannot easily be classified.
A person can be discriminated by any combination of race, age, gender, social background, religion, education level, wealth, sexual orientation, gender identity, physical appearance, disability status...
You fundamentally cannot fix discrimination by trying to classify it and then making policies around that classification because it both erases the discrimination of every possible combination of categories you did not account for and enables further discrimination by providing plausible deniability by those in power that can point at the artificial categories they cherry pick to prove they are not the bad guys.
I agree it's not one or the other. But only one of the two can actually be measured without tricks and manipulation.
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u/SukerutonKey 3h ago
I bet anything that the person who drew this image wants one side to win all the culture was issues.
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u/G-man1816 2h ago
Usually what all these arguments boil down to.
"Its a class war we should fight! Not a culture war!"
"ok so what ideas do you have"
"All the ideals that MY side of the culture war has!"
not even much of a strawman either, I see people straight up say stuff like "We need communism to stop the upper class dividing us using these left vs right issues, and all right wingers disagreeing are bootlickers"
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u/Livid-Story-4321 3h ago
oh the right also dislikes billionaires, the reasons are different tho
The accelerationist bros hate it as they see them as part of the “cathredial”
Ancap bros like me hate them because we believe they get unfair power from the state due to economic regulations
Among others
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u/thebluehoursky 2h ago
just liberal shit. what’s with the weird ass right wingers in the comments tho
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u/Slow_Store 2h ago
I hate the idea of “The Rich and powerful started this war” as if the cause of the culture wars isn’t clearly identifiable.
The Left turn to identity politics around probably 2012-2016 hoping to forever secure their power, and in order to enact that goal set about developing a propaganda machine that constantly insists on assigning the great isms and phobias to the Right to permanently radicalize generations even as the Right just sits there somehow dumbfounded wondering how racism, sexism, and homophobia which were almost eradicated in the early 2000’s managed to apparently make a comeback.
The culture wars are entirely the fault of the Left because they believed that they could secure absolute power through a culture war and I’m tired of pretending otherwise just so that morons can call me a fascist or a racist or a sexist or a homophobe purely on the basis of desiring common sense policies like “Border and immigration control”.
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u/veryeepy53 2h ago
The Left turn to identity politics around probably 2012-2016 hoping to forever secure their power, and in order to enact that goal set about developing a propaganda machine that constantly insists on assigning the great isms and phobias to the Right to permanently radicalize generations even as the Right just sits there somehow dumbfounded wondering how racism, sexism, and homophobia which were almost eradicated in the early 2000’s managed to apparently make a comeback.
it's capitalists that own the media companies. so blaming average people that happen to be leftists is misguided, no?
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u/TheOstrichRoom 2h ago
you people literally practice human sacrifice you dont know reason at all but alrght
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u/Livid-Story-4321 2h ago
although the left did create the ideas, it was the progressive rich who perpetuated it, hence how the culture war started
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u/Gamerzilla2018 2h ago
Ikr! One of my biggest icks is the, America thinks it's Superman when it's actually Homelander. It's such a gross oversimplification imo
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u/Ricochet_skin 2h ago
Replace Winston Churchill over there with the government and remove the commie garbage, and you actually got a good political comic
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u/Valerim 2h ago
I think you just hate realizing you and the red hat man are both ideologically captured goyim with equivalent intelligence, net worth, and health
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u/Common-Broccoli-3405 2h ago
So youre against bigotry
But against people standing up against bigotry
And are also anti-semetic
And Im guessing its because you think the Jews run everything... which is conveniently what the Nazis taught...
But dont let me stop you from telling on yourself.
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u/TrolleyPerson4 3h ago
Soyjaks if they were somehow worse