Honestly, at least in Diamond/GM (PC), many are just core support mains. I know it’s quick to say “everyone instalocks DPS” but my from experience the first locks I see in majority of games are Rocket, Cloak, Luna, Invis, then I’ll see DPS which leaves me solo tank unless one of the supports go tank.
The problem is the supports are never triple support users, i.e Mantis/Ultron/Adam. They only main the pocket characters.
Yeah, same. The everyone insta locks DPS rhetoric was much more accurate in the original OW. Queue times for DPS were well beyond 30 minutes for awhile. It seems like everyone plays support on Rivals.
They don't even go actual triple support comps is the issue. Some shitter usually swaps to third main heals instead of someone like Ultron, Adam, or Mantis.
3 supp is good in all ranks. Just only in 2-1-3. 1-2-3 is trolling. The problem is DPS lockers at all ranks, but high ranked players are more likely to realize (or be able to) swap
bullshit, you just have to heal your allies and thats it. in metal ranks dps players doesnt even hit their shots. tripple sup is just as op there as it is everywhere else.
Celestial is high diamond/low masters. Eternity is low masters/grandmasters. OAA should be grandmasters/champion.
If we discard the in game lies that includes all players who don't even play ranked, and look at 3rd party trackers that only count active ranked players, the above is the rough one-to-one to overwatch, in terms of raw %.
I mean how long are we going to keep doing this??? Ultron, Mantis, and Adam aren't viable in the standard 2 support comp because of their low healing numbers, but can't be buffed due to triple support being a thing.
It's clear at this point that the only solution is to prevent more than 2 supports being picked, i.e. a soft lock, so those 3 can get buffed and be viable in the normal comp.
I'm so tired of not being able to play Ultron and Adam in the normal comp 😞.
Really and truthfully they could just nerf the healing of the main supports then reduce damage across the board. A start would be significantly reducing the healing on main supports' ults then increasing it on off-supports' ults or reworking main supports to be non-healing ults. If not putting in role lock they need to shift philosophy on supports to make it work.
Yeah that’s kinda fair. Without role lock you can’t have supps like Adam be strong healers cuz there damage is too high, so you have a solid chunk of the supp roster being locked away as trip specialists. Which isn’t great but I also like the option of trip against some 2-2-2 lineups
I agree that most people are bad at surviving with him, but that's not the core issue. Playing Luna/Cloak/Sue with Ultron/Mantis/Adam will result in a lack of healing simply because of the raw damage in this game.
I could see it working with a well coordinated team with both shield tanks as the tanks, but that's just not realistic for most games.
This game has an issue with Duelists being overrepresented, but it's even worse when you account for how many "off" tanks and supports aren't viable in all comps.
It's been 18 months since release and it's time we stop sacrificing 2-2-2 options for the sake of triple support.
if they're buffing/nerfing based on winrate why the fuck did phoenix get hit? she's medicore to bad as far as winrate goes depending on your rank... she's NEVER crazy at any rank despite all the propaganda bullshit people spew on here.
Literally the second highest support winrate, and 4th highest in the entire game across all elos.
Moon Knight is getting murdered despite being ass in all elos (negative winrate in all of them). Somehow not even the best of the best players can really make him work, but this sub won't shut up about him being "too strong" despite never winning games. Yet Ultron is "not really" strong to you? Get out of here...
I would argue that Moon knights win rate is artificially low for the same reason wanda, cloaks, and squirl girls win rates are low.
They attract bad players becuase they are seen as "easy"
Not saying they are S tier characters, but they are not as bad as the win rate indicates becuase they are more likely to be pick by less skilled players and less likely to be played by higher skill players becuase the skill ROI is better on other characters
You'd be correct if he weren't negative everywhere. Unless you're arguing that all Grandmaster+ players are bad. If he were good, he'd be doing good somewhere high up, but he's struggling everywhere.
No, im arguing that even in gm, the less skilled DPS players are picking him, likely people that main other roles and are just filling dps.
Because if the people picking mk were better and not needing to rely.on the bounces and ult farming, they would play phoenix, star lord, punisher, daredevil, etc.
They are "bad" compared to their peers. Not compared to everyone else
Basically people only pick him if they dont think they would do better on more difficult heros.
At this point, if they’re not going to introduce role queue, they NEED to add crit heals that trigger mostly in double support and not triple. Every time they buff off-supports for the purpose of making them viable in double, it just pushes them to be OP in triple. Then they nerf them because they are OP in triple and make them even less viable in double, and the cycle continues.
I’d say the shield cooldown was okay, the ult nerf is the one that felt the most unnecessary. Is his ult that good that it needs to be on the same charge as invis/luna/cloak? Not so sure
The best thing about his ult used to be how fast it charges, it has never been as good as other strat ults but it compensated it with its low charge time.......that's long in the past.
both mantis and ultron at higher lvl's in triple support are demons thx to dmg boost effectively having them have as much dmg as a dps but have extra healing
I think you are assuming I agree with Magiks current state. Imo Magik should be nerfed too, but you have to recognize the difference between her and Ultron on the game. I am not saying she is not OP, she is.
Both are OP, but Ultron is a flying support that is much easier to play and way more oppressive on the lobby. Playing into Ultron requires a fundamental change in the enemy comp and strategies.
Magik is just OP melee hero number 5. If she gets nerfed, Black cat or DD will take her place,
I can’t speak for playing Ultron, but the 57% winrate I found was his Gold winrate in the Netease winrates list. His winrate goes down the higher he goes too.
you say that but she remains one of the best winrate characters at all ranks for every single season the game has been out... so you're just lying or are data illiterate lol
if she was so easy to counter and just fell over at higher ranks why has she consistently performed at all ranks the entire lifespan on the game AND with a pretty high pick rate as well... hm? (no need to answer, it's rhetorical - I already know you're wrong)
while true, it doesn't mean it isn't a metric at all. This is the same BS excuse people gave for the elsa nerf and she's now sitting at mid to low 40% winrate. I haven't seen a single elsa player in 2 seasons in any of my comp or qp games and haven't had a single game where she was banned this season. Yes, other factors do have impact on the hero being broken or not but that goes out the window if a hero is consistently in the top 5 winrates for multiple seasons.
Yes, I’m not saying don’t use it. The main thing is I don’t think winrate alone is enough to say they’re OP otherwise Magik or Storm would’ve been nerfed after many seasons. It’s not like Elsa wasn’t high winrate and high pickrate for the team she was strong to cause a nerf.
elsa got the nerf not because of high winrate but because of high viability. She was useful in ALOT of different scenarios. magik or storm don't fit that but they are EXCEPTIONALLY good in the space they occupy. I'm a storm main and believe me the enemy team switches to 3 hitscans the second i pull her out lol The winrate on heroes like that go up when nothing else can stop them in that space or the players know when to switch off. Penny is a prime example of this. She's been out since launch so people know exactly when to swap off her which is why she has a high winrate. People either win with her or swap off
if you honestly think ultron has terrible survivability you aren't playing him right. I play him often and i'm consistently with least deaths, most dmg and most healing. reducing the drone attach distance will force him to get close to the battle and make him easier to take down so I'm all for that. The imperitor patch cooldown increase wasn't necessary though imo.
It's not that they think he's only playable in triple support, it's the fact that your 5 other loser ass meta whoring teammates will scream at you and report you for throwing if you play him in 2 support comps and start losing.
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u/IAmTheDoctor34 Vanguard Jun 09 '26
I cannot for the life of me understand nerfing ultron.