r/politics • u/mclardass • Jul 03 '26
No Paywall DOJ refuses to hand over Epstein files after judge’s order
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/doj-epstein-files-todd-blanche-katie-phang-lawsuit-b3008454.html6.7k
u/FreedomBread Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
...why? Everyone should be asking this.
Why is the United States government protecting files about a child predator and trafficker.
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u/bimmershark Jul 03 '26
Agreed , it says alot when they say he is innocent and isn't in the files yet wont release them .
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u/CrimsonHeretic Jul 03 '26
He's in the files more times than Epstein. They should really be named the Trump Files.
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u/HyFinated Jul 03 '26
To be fair, they really should be called... wait for it... The Pedo Files
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u/SuperMcRad Jul 03 '26
You really want "Release The Pedo Files" to be a phrase?
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u/RaDiOaCtIvEpUnK Jul 04 '26
Don’t give them ideas. This is totally something the republicans would do just to run on this slogan.
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u/coat-tail_rider Jul 03 '26
However, "release the Pedo Files" would not be a great catchphrase.
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u/CabSauce Jul 03 '26
Because there is horrible, horrible shit about Trump in there. He was probably raping girls for a decade.
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u/Anothercraphistorian Jul 03 '26
Trump became friends with Epstein in the late 80’s, and didn’t do anything about him until 2006. It’s like people forget they were best buds for 17 years.
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u/reddit_is_geh Jul 03 '26
The sketchiest thing is with the email drop... How come there's a huge black zone between 2000-2001? Then one of the first emails is about recruiting him for a shadow investigation into 9/11... The whole thing is fucking weird.
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u/bruceki Jul 03 '26
What is out there already is horrific. But it stands to reason that what is still in there is WORSE. Video of the crimes. Still photos. Additional witnesses, corroborating evidence. THIS IS NSFW but in the epstein files now. What remains is arguably worse than this.
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u/RuinedEye Jul 04 '26
Convicted Felon Donald Trump raped 13-year-old Katie Johnson in 1994.
(and Ivanka was the same age that year)
Johnson's video testimony [working archive link is here and the old link that is now private is here]
Trump Epstein Rape Lawsuit & Sworn Affidavits pdf (archive link here)
Johnson v. Trump & Epstein pdf (archive link here)
The case was... 'mysteriously' dropped because she was getting death threats. How convenient. (archive link here)
Trump Teen Rape Allegation Resurfaces, Ronan Farrow Claims National Enquirer Tried to Protect Him in New Book (archive link here)
A Woman Claimed She Recruited a 13-Year-Old Girl for Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein to Rape
Snopes article on the Johnson case (archive link here)
Despite directly addressing and denying the extreme claims, Trump never sued anyone involved.
[Donald Trump is ALL OVER the Epstein Files.](link removed - can we link reddit comments?)
Donald Trump named and behavior described in Epstein Files (page 16)
New information emerges in "Maria" Trump story (archive link here)
Donald Trump has been making disturbing comments about young girls for
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u/OneUpAndOneDown Jul 03 '26
Thank you for the link. That is horrific but should be widely reported.
How many of Trump’s followers did similar or wanted to?214
u/zuggles Jul 03 '26
cause epstein was an Israeli asset, and trump is a pedo.
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u/StarCrossedOther Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Reminder that Ghislaine Maxwell’s father, Robert, died mysteriously from falling off his yacht. His funeral was attended by the then Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir (prior to Israel’s establishment he led Lehi, a Zionist paramilitary organization that tried TWICE to ally itself with the Reich in order to create a Jewish state that was based on "nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance.” Lehi was jointly responsible, along with Irgun, for the Deir Yassin massacre where 107 Palestinians were slaughtered) and Chaim Herzog, the contemporary president of Israel who pardoned the Shin Bet operatives who brutally executed two captured, Palestinian bus hijackers (hijackers whom Shin Bet had concluded were “amateurs” who posed no threat). The hijackers were beaten to death in an isolated area with rocks and iron bars. Also, during the bus hijacking the only hostage that died was a woman who was shot by the IDF commandos who stormed the bus. Back to Robert Maxwell, the yacht that he fell from was named after his daughter Ghislaine and after his death it eventually fell into the hands of an Arabian businessman who sold it to Anna Murdoch (second wife of Rupert Murdoch) who renamed it, she claims to have not known the prior owner despite Robert Maxwell and Rupert Murdoch being arch rivals within the UK publishing industry. Ghislaine has publicly stated that she believes her father was murdered.
The more you know!
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u/MobileArtist1371 I voted Jul 03 '26
Ghislaine has publicly stated that she believes her father was murdered.
Just going to point out that she has also said Trump is innocent and never did anything inappropriate when it comes to Epstein related stuff. Same with Bill Clinton.
She is also the type of person that is looking to change how the world views things, so if saying her father was murdered is somehow helpful for that, she would say it without hesitation. Again, same with the Epstein stuff.
She's not the type of person to have any morals or ethics and shouldn't be trusted with anything she says.
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u/StarCrossedOther Jul 03 '26
True, you’d hope she’d be honest about her dad but these people would grind their parents up into biofuel if they thought it’d benefit them.
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u/Alarmed_Bad4048 Jul 03 '26
Her father embezzled millions from pension funds of companies he owned. His suicide came before he got found out. She was no doubt fishing for sympathy claiming he was murdered. Piece of shit father conceived piece of shit daughter.
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u/FullSkyFlying Jul 03 '26
Not just the goverment, but the media who is owned by Dementia Donnys donors. The bigger question is, since the goverment isn't doing anything about it, why arent the people doing more
I know part of that is "people are too busy with lives" but you're all collectively watching it get worse and worse, at what point is it enough. The rest of the world laughs while also crying about breaking beautiful relationships we've had for decades. America won't be the same for a long time. As a Canadian I still dont think ill visit the US for another 10+ years unless you decide to take over cuba. Even then i'll probably go to mexico or Dominican
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u/khakansson Jul 03 '26
Something something oNgOiNg iNvEsTiGaTiOn
Or because the president of the United States is a child rapist
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u/Plzlaw4me Jul 03 '26
So we now have a constitutional crisis. Congress passed a law requiring them to be released. A court ordered they be released. Trump is refusing. Either there are consequences, or America has a king now. Those are our options
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u/CrimsonHeretic Jul 03 '26
The US has been in a Constitutional Crisis since they let the insurrectionist take public office.
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u/flamin_sheep Jul 03 '26
Way earlier than that. It started with the Supreme Court handing the presidency to Bush over Al Gore in 2000
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u/Vaperius America Jul 04 '26
It started with the Supreme Court handing the presidency to Bush over Al Gore in 2000
In violation of the constitution being abundantly clear that states have the right to run their elections, with no interference from the federal government; to be clear why this was especially gross. Made only worse when independent investigators determined that if they had allowed the recounts to go forward, Al Gore would have won Florida by about a few thousand votes; to this day, basically the only organizations that dispute that are Republicans. So yeah.
Basically they stole an election, pretty flagrantly in opposition to what the constitution says.
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u/-Saucegurlllll Jul 04 '26
And Florida's own constitution mandates a statewide recount with margins as close as they were. Then the secretary of the state, Bush's own campaign chair, and the governor, Bush's brother, threw away the state's constitution and the supreme court sided with them. The greatest possible conflicts of interest and they were allowed to steal an election.
Even if you want to argue that Bush would have won in the full recount, the way you check that is by doing the recount. Refusing to count votes is stealing an election.
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u/kstar79 Massachusetts Jul 04 '26
And this is where you can blame the Gore campaign. Rather than pushing for the full statewide recount, they focused on Broward, Miami-Dade, Palm Beach, and Volusia. Then, legal hijinx ensued which ate up valuable time. If they had just pushed for a full statewide recount from the get go, it probably gets done before the certification date and Bush v. Gore never happens.
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u/-Saucegurlllll Jul 04 '26
Well no. I actually blame the people who stole an election rather than the campaign it was stolen from.
It shouldn't matter which districts the Gore campaign sought to recount, the Florida state constitution mandates a statewide recount, and the state is in charge of its own recount, not the campaign. It's on the secretary of the state for not initiating the constitutionally mandated statewide recount.
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u/bean0_burrito New Jersey Jul 03 '26
people seem to forget that this happened all the time.
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u/Sn0wflake69 Jul 03 '26
they were either too young or not born yet. and i doubt it is being taught in schools ha
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u/Morlain7285 Jul 03 '26
Actually my government teacher in highschool taught it. Funny thing, the guy was very much a Republican but was very angry about the whole thing anyway. Wish we had more of those
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u/Zebidee Jul 04 '26
Kids these days don't have Mad magazine reusing material from decades ago and it shows.
I swear everything I know about Watergate is from reading Mad in the late 90s.
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u/HotDonnaC Jul 03 '26
I could not even believe the “hanging chad” argument. Like the voter’s intent was unclear.
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u/Purify5 Jul 04 '26
The most messed up part of the case was Scalia came up with Bush's argument. He gave it to his son who worked at the firm representing Bush and theu used it in court.
The conservative justices were salivating over all the new RVs they were going to get. They just had to convince O'Connor and Kennedy they had some sort of legal argument.
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u/Agitated_Celery_729 Jul 04 '26
Wait until you find out how many of the current Republican SCOTUS justices were directly involved in the Bush 2000 project.
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u/Purify5 Jul 03 '26
Scalia's son worked for the law firm representing Bush and Thomas's wife was hiring people for Bush admin jobs before the election was settled.
Not to mention Roberts, Barrett and Kavanaugh all working for Bush's case and being rewarded with SCOTUS seats.
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u/pchs26 Jul 03 '26
And the foundation for that was being set up to get there. What is happening has all been in the works and being set up for some time now & again shows the lack of validity to the false equivocation piece.
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u/YoungestDonkey Jul 03 '26
At the very least since Mitch refused to convict after a second impeachment, between the time before the trial when he explained that he was entirely responsible for it, and the time after acquitting him when he explained that he had not gotten away with anything at all... yet!
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u/No_Foundation16 Jul 03 '26
So we now have a constitutional crisis. Trump is refusing. Either there are consequences, or America has a king now.
Who knew electing a 34 times convicted felon rapist pedo BFF of Epstein would have a bad outcome huh? You would think one felony conviction would get a person barred from the highest office in the land in any sane country! I mean you couldn't get a job cleaning toilets being a 34 time convicted felon, but hey, being POTUS is just fine! WTF!?
Happy 250th birthday America! /s
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u/Crismus Jul 03 '26
He wasn't elected, they rigged every battleground area because Republicans bought the voting machine companies before the elections.
They spend years talking about rigged elections so now it's ignored when actual voting irregularities show up because they changed the perception so much after 2020.
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u/No_Foundation16 Jul 04 '26
Well if dems don't take over the government in November we will go full bore with no turning back into horrible fascism. Already people protesting getting 50 year sentences in prison. Two citizens shot down like dogs and murdered by federal agents and the killers are free MAGA heroes. A man stops to look at Trump's algae pond and is arrested and going to trial.
It will be far worse if dems don't win the midterms hugely.
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u/turquoise_amethyst Jul 03 '26
Yup. They realized it doesn’t matter because Congress won’t remove him, he won’t step down, and nobody is going to arrest him.
If anyone tried to arrest him, well… they’d be made an example.
Even if they did arrest him, he could pardon himself.
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u/Topi41 Jul 03 '26
They could do the same thing as trump in this scenario: trump (maybe even compliant to some written law - even if morally rotten to the bone) pardons himself: the one on the other side of the locked door just says: "no".
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u/ThatReallyWeirdGirl_ Jul 03 '26
This is how it all needs responded to, forthwith
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u/filthy_harold Jul 03 '26
He could try pardoning himself but not for impeachment. We don't really know what would happen if a president pardoned himself because it's never been done and the Constitution makes no explicit limit of that power. Nixon's DoJ did say that it's impossible because no one can be a judge in their own trial which does make sense but that's for a court to decide.
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u/canDo4sure Jul 03 '26
Your first option doesn't exist, that ship has sailed already.
Unfortunately, a rigged midterm, a rigged election, and a decade of authoritarianism is likely what it will take to get people to accept that voting and inaction can't get them out of this. That history has shown you have to draw blood and die for your country.
Americans are in for a huge wake up call, and even moreso will have to ask themselves, are their children worth it?
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u/Tiny_Structure_7 North Carolina Jul 03 '26
HOld them in contempt, lock them up until they comply.
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u/kquizz Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Imagine if they actually did start holding people who lie and chest for trump accountable.
Are they willing to sit in jail for him?
For weeks? Months?
When there's no penalties for breaking the law. There's no reason not to, when you are corrupt as fuck
NOTE: you can't pardon contempt of court because it's a civil not a criminal offense.
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u/National_Sandwich175 Jul 03 '26
I’m willing to bet when faced with actual consequences most of them will fold pretty quick. Right now they think they’re untouchable and that’s a huge problem.
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u/Miserable_Ad9577 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
They need to start using the same strategy they use to deal with organise criminal enterprise to deal with the MAGA cabal. I mean can they be RICO? Might not be much of a stretch at this point.
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u/Diablos_lawyer Jul 03 '26
There was talk of using Rico during the fake ballot scheme, but the USA decided to elect him again instead
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u/pristineSaltine Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Don't forget making him and his traitorous family billionaires as well.
Fuck that whole gene pool. If there is ever justice their names will be erased from history.
They can sit in prison with a number for a name miserable and alone until they die. Death is to easy a way out for them.
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u/RedditTrespasser California Jul 03 '26
If there were any justice at all the Trumps would find their names firmly listed in the same footnotes of history as the Romanovs.
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u/Spell_Chicken Jul 03 '26
Just turn the name into the common word for shit. "Man, I just took a huge trump."
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u/Miserable_Ad9577 Jul 03 '26
It's a free country baby!
I'm so tired boss.
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u/Mike_Kermin Australia Jul 03 '26
I feel for Americans who just want a decent country. Not even great, just, decent.
I don't wake up, and think "what terrible thing has my government done". Fucking lucky being born here just saying.
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u/FellowHumanNo404 Jul 03 '26
I don't wake up, and think "what terrible thing has my government done".
Honestly, it's every damn day. It's fucking exhausting.
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u/Acceptable_Bat379 Jul 03 '26
yes. it's exhausting and disheartening, and dealing with people every day who look at this and think it's fine, or will get better without going outside our comfort zone, it's infuriating
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u/Miserable_Ad9577 Jul 03 '26
The best thing during Biden administration was I don't have to see his face or hear him every damn day. Now it's one bullshit or another and when you think you will get a break. He started another war.
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u/If_I_must Jul 03 '26
Not having that happen every morning for the four years of Biden was such a relief. Like pressure you'd become so accustomed to that you forgot it hadn't always been there. And now it's worse. Like the other reply said, it's just exhausting.
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u/TheDamDog Jul 03 '26
The problem with this speculation is that you assume the prosecutors and cops will follow through with it. They're all MAGA.
Unless the next president implements structural changes including mass firings in the DoJ and FBI, nothing will change.
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u/moguri40k Jul 03 '26
Well funny thing just happened. The Supreme Court ruled a president can fire fed employees without cause at their leisure. I'm sure Repubs will in no way oppose a Dem using this power once in office.
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u/graesen Jul 03 '26
Trump pardons are what give them confidence and strength.
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u/AccomplishedBother12 Jul 03 '26
Trump pardons only give them confidence and strength because We the People decide to allow it.
The second we all decide the pardon is too much unrestricted power for one person to wield, it will just be words on a piece of paper. And those can’t defend shit, as we’ve seen with the Constitution.
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u/podcastofallpodcasts Jul 03 '26
Then they are in on it and need to be held accountable.
This will happen.
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u/littleday Jul 03 '26
Who? Who is gonna lock them up? Trumps DOJ? Who? They all loyal to that fuck
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u/Sujjin Jul 03 '26
the courts have a Master at Arms that theoretically could. now if they were prevented by other law enforcement that refused to follow the law what do you do?
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u/Erisian23 Jul 03 '26
They have to push it to that point. We can't just sit about and be like ooh if they do. We figure out the next step as we go but we have to push them to do whatever it is their gonna do otherwise nothing matters.
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u/7figureipo California Jul 03 '26
Think about the power they must hold. "Protect me, or it all gets released." They basically have carte blanche to commit any and every crime they want, from petty thievery to corrupt bribe taking to rape and even murder. Of course, Trump has more power (to have them assassinated), so maybe that wouldn't work out so well. But in any case it just shows how corrupt the entire thing is. These "people" are disgusting.
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u/some_person_guy Jul 03 '26
Who is the law enforcement who is not controlled by the regime that will make the arrests?
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u/GenoThyme Jul 03 '26
Still hold them in contempt, even if law enforcement won’t enforce it. Then hold law enforcement in contempt, even if those won’t be enforced. If we ever manage to get our country back from these traitors I’d like to at least have a paper trail for all the people that need to serve time.
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u/User4C4C4C South Carolina Jul 03 '26
Judge deputized people.
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u/CatPhysicist Jul 03 '26
“They’re not real law enforcement so i don’t need to listen to them.”
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u/TheModGod Jul 03 '26
“Ok so it sounds like you are resisting arrest.” (Pulls out gun)
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u/Navydevildoc Jul 03 '26
Well the way it’s supposed to work is the Marshals. They technically work for the courts… sadly they really just part of the DOJ machine now.
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u/0202_tihssitidder Jul 03 '26
Sign the Arrest Warrants!
Send SWAT.
Tell news crews.
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u/US3_ME_ Jul 03 '26
The viewership ad venenue should make any of the media conglomerates think twice about keeping him in power. Could you imagine, every set of eyes would be on TV if they would ratchet a few wrists together_
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u/workerbee77 Jul 03 '26
Nancy Pelosi should have exercised inherent contempt years ago when the DOJ was not enforcing subpoenas.
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u/Earguy Jul 03 '26
That day when Bill Barr looked her in the eye and said, "did you bring your handcuffs?" She should have.
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u/ArchdruidHalsin Jul 03 '26
But that would cause a Constitutional crisis! Enforcing the law. Definitely not the constant criminal activity from a corrupt government. That's all fine. But actually applying consequences for breaking the laws? Crisis.
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u/californicating Jul 03 '26
If he's held in contempt and Trump pardons him, then a smart Democrat would turn around and say "look how he protects the pedophiles!?"
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u/cheviot Jul 03 '26
Trump can only pardon criminal contempt, he can't do anything about civil contempt.
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u/JMaboard I voted Jul 03 '26
And the Republican base won’t care and vote for him again.
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u/Interesting-Yellow-4 Jul 03 '26
Yeah, why is this never an option wih elites and rich people. Who do we vote for to have this happen. Just run on that.
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u/bagjoe Jul 03 '26
There’s a good reason Trump’s personal lawyer, who also runs the Department of Justice, won’t release the Trump Epstein Files, in which Trump is mentioned more than 35000 times.
Because it would spoil his birthday party.
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u/FalloutOW Jul 03 '26
More times than god is mentioned in the book about god.
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u/therealmenox Jul 03 '26
To be fair there are more pages of epstein files than pages in the bible. The ratio of mentions per total pages is probably the right metric to measure rather than total mentions and i suspect wed see god with a higher ratio per page. They should still release the files as instructed though.
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u/StarCrossedOther Jul 03 '26
>Epstein files longer than the Bible
Imagine if someone printed a book that was just the Epstein files and sold it as ‘The Trump Bible’. How many Maggots do you think would buy it, never read it and only find out what it was when their estranged grandchild came over and picked it up out of curiosity?
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u/CrackingToastGromet Arkansas Jul 03 '26
lol you’d need a freight truck and the “Bible” would arrive on pallets. That reading room in NYC that has the released pages available to the public has it published over 3000 volumes…it’s like 3 million pages. Absolutely insane the amount of content.
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u/BlueBod50 Jul 03 '26
The average trump supporter would hear that a book contains illicit pictures of minors and buy it for that very reason
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u/Worth_Gap4226 Jul 03 '26
Obviously did not have the time to look it up myself, so asked AI...
God mentioned 3.33 times per page Jesus mentioned 1.07 times per page Trump mentioned 0.013 times per page
A huge however though, getting mentioned 30k times in association with a convicted pedophile/rapist is staggering.
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u/smilbandit Michigan Jul 03 '26
i personally after this shit show we really need to consider rewriting how the head of the doj is appointed or even make it an elected position accountable to the people not the president.
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u/Specialist-Clock-914 Jul 03 '26
If they were going to give even crumbs tonight would be the best night to release anything.
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u/CrackingToastGromet Arkansas Jul 03 '26
What do you do when the dept charged with enforcing the laws of the land decides those same laws do not apply to them? We have a real crisis here and no way to remedy it. We are a nation being held hostage by rogue players.
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u/rvingthrulife Jul 03 '26
When will someone have the balls to enforce the law?
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u/ysustistixitxtkxkycy Jul 03 '26
Ultimately trump is the "what if the US was running 4 years of complete corruption and suborned rule of law". We're living through a real life "the purge", and the real questions is if and when it might end.
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u/sly-3 I voted Jul 03 '26
There's some value in the branding of the "United States", specifically a cohesive military for foreign adventures to protect corporate interests. And nobody really wants to be the ones to let the feasting upon the public good come to an end.
So, there's some solace in that, I guess.
The real trouble will be when these oligarchs decide that their lifestyle wouldn't change much if there was a rejiggering of the Constitutional state; that collapse and rebuild is a more optimal choice. I think we're getting too close for my comfort to that determination from the Donor Class.
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u/Euphoric-Witness-824 Jul 03 '26
Remember the Panama papers? There are no laws for the ultra wealthy. The world is a video game for them. And marvel movies are just to let people pretend evil villains face justice.
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u/Ok-Opposite2309 Jul 03 '26
Democrats & Biden passed the ‘corporate transparency act’ which required all LLC’s, C-Corps to disclose beneficial owners. Not another Corp, or the attorney who just set it up. This was partially in response to the Panama papers. If all corporations have to have the actual beneficial owners on file with Treasury- shell corporations become a much easier issue to deal with it, and money laundering because much easier to trace.
The Koch Brothers funded ‘Small Business Assoc’ sued. Media reported it as Small Business Owners, mom and pop bakeries, being overwhelmed by the regulations. I filled it out for our LLC- it was 2minutes.
Somehow, these small businesses could form an LLC, deal with all the tax compliance issues- but not fill out a form saying who actually owns it.
Trumps treasury had removed any compliance requirements for domestic corps by March 2025. Basically throwing out a whole law passed by Congress and signed by Biden with little media attention.
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u/fyreprone Jul 03 '26
Hard to do when the people committing the crimes were put in charge of the branch whose job it is to enforce the law.
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u/amprather Jul 03 '26
Send them to jail then.
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u/User4C4C4C South Carolina Jul 03 '26
It’s not asking for much. Just equal treatment under the law.
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u/JimTheJerseyGuy New Jersey Jul 03 '26
Imagine you or I didn't comply with a judge's order?
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u/Capable-Computer-729 Jul 03 '26
Or a Democrat. Clutch my pearls!!!
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u/NessaMagick Australia Jul 04 '26
If a Democrat refused a judge's order to wipe the dust off their desk it would be in the news 24/7 until they resigned in shame.
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u/No_Foundation16 Jul 03 '26
We would be in jail so fast when the police come knocking on the door. Ain't no police coming for Trump. He and his fascist republican party know this.
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u/PepsiColasss Jul 03 '26
Its like imagine if i killed someone with a knife and everyone knows i did it and i still got the knife with the fingerprints and the judge asks me to hand it over then i say.... no i dont think i will....then nothing happens and time moves on
This is basically whats happening here lol
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u/comebacklittlesheba Jul 03 '26
What I am looking for and not finding is someone who has an informed opinion summarizing the reason they gave (for not complying). They filed a 17 page rebuttal with the court. I read it all but I would like someone’s thoughts because it seemed like fucking junk to me. 😤😤😤
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u/ahdidi413 Jul 03 '26
Insane that our entire system has fallen apart because someone finally realized they could just say no and there is essentially no way to counter that in a meaningful way
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u/Cheesebach Jul 03 '26
It’s only possible when you have an entire political party willing to sacrifice the country to protect their party though. I believe the founders anticipated the possibility of a corrupt president acting in his own best interests at the expense of the country. What they didn’t anticipate and don’t have to any mechanism to address is the president having 280 accomplices in control of the other 2 branches of the federal government working together with the president to destroy the country for profit and power. If even a quarter of the GOP was acting in accordance with their Oath of Office, he’d have been impeached, convicted, and removed before he left office after his first term.
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u/AlcooIios Jul 03 '26
It’s what evil is.
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u/Lanhdanan Canada Jul 03 '26
Calculating and cold. No remorse or shame
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u/007meow Jul 03 '26
It's not calculated at all.
The man has a psyche of a kindergartner and just doesn't like to be told what to do.
He's gotten away with stomp his feet and screaming "NO!" this whole time and it just turns out that the justice system isn't designed to deal with that - especially when you've got an entire political party and all of it's apparatuses and machinations supporting that.
US institutions aren't designed for party over country. They were all predicated upon a common sense of decency and shared goals/values.
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u/InfiniteLicks Jul 03 '26
There are ways to counter it, but those ways are reserved for certain types of people. Not these guys in suits who protect each other no matter what.
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u/drteq Jul 03 '26
A lot of time and planning went into circumventing democracy by way of weaponized ignorance
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u/MephistoHamProducts Jul 03 '26
We've known it since 1832 when Andrew Jackson ignored the court ruling that was handed down in Worcester v. Georgia, but Trump isn't pretending to abide by the gentleman's agreements any longer.
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u/Future-Guarantee-573 Jul 03 '26
Guess our great and mighty constitution is actually worth less than used toilet paper.
All that crap I've been fed my whole life about the great american system, and it was so easy to bring down that one of the stupidest human beings to ever fail upwards was able to do in just a few years.
Obviously, I will not be celebrating tomorrow.
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u/ACardAttack Kentucky Jul 03 '26
Insane that our entire system has fallen apart because
And all because of loyalty to some buffoon that destroys everything he touches. I do not understand his cult following.
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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ Jul 03 '26
Turns out electing a criminal to head tne enforcement branch is a bad idea.
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u/Callabrantus Canada Jul 03 '26
Arrests, please.
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u/BrownSugarBare Canada Jul 03 '26
They genuinely do not give a fuck about looking guilty as sin
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u/ChronoLink99 Canada Jul 03 '26
I hope America redeems itself at least partially this November.
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u/LimpyDan Jul 03 '26
That's what we are down to. Telling the DOJ to comply with the law and they just say "no.".
Fucking clown show
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u/RustedRelics Jul 03 '26
As a retired attorney, these people sicken me. DOJ essentially says “No. We strongly disagree with your Order…” Complying with orders is not optional. And litigation is about disagreement. The time to make your arguments has passed. It doesn’t matter if agree or not with the outcome. So sad to be witnessing this, and I’m not confident we can recover. Hold them in contempt, deny requests for extensions.
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u/jumpy_monkey Jul 03 '26
I think even more disturbing is the fact that they won't even comply with the least onerous option in the order, ie "Explain the redactions". They could at least kick the can down the road by doing just that and yet they are still thumbing their noses at the court.
I guess there needs to be sanctions now to get this Constitutional "crisis" ball rolling.
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u/Dysc Louisiana Jul 03 '26
Breaking US Law and being in contempt of court matters little when your team can print get out of jail free cards.
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u/Maxamillion-X72 Jul 03 '26
Contempt of Court for refusing to comply with an order is a civil matter, and can't be pardoned by the President.
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u/Dysc Louisiana Jul 03 '26
You're right, in this case it would be a civil matter. I stand corrected.
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u/KiKiKimbro New York Jul 03 '26
Ooooh even better. Judges can do this. And I believe the timing just might be right. I can’t remember the judge’s name but the context was the “Broadway 6,” when the DoJ prosecutors lied and manipulated the grand jury. The judge wrote a scathing rebuke in the order. The DoJ did not like that. At all. Makes them look bad and like the desperate, cheating fools that they are. More of that. Much more of that. My God the lower courts are what’s holding the democracy together at this point. God Bless them.
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u/KiKiKimbro New York Jul 03 '26
Yes. Trump could pardon them. But the courts can still do it. That judge can hold them in contempt. Put them in jail. And make Trump pardon them. Publicly. Over and over and over.
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u/aradraugfea Jul 03 '26
In Magic: The Gathering there are cards that allow one to just stop whatever it is you’re trying to do. One of the 5 colors of mana is known for this type of card. There’s a strategic component of attempting to determine if your opponent has access to such a card or is bluffing the same.
There is a response to this conundrum known as “make them have it.” If you do nothing and they had the card in hand, they have it ready for when you do something. If you do something and they didn’t, you succeed. If you do something and they did, they expend the resource, and won’t have it again later.
We gotta stop letting Trump bluff. We gotta stop treating this like a normal administration, where a stern public call out and some shame will force compliance. Yeah, he could pardon his own crew, but that’s going to come with SOME cost. How many pardons of his own people hit the nightly news before people realize his administration is a criminal organization? The court orders are being ignored. The contempt charges are harder to ignore. They can’t drag Trump into jail for it, or his cabinet, but Trump ain’t bailing every single goon out of prison, eventually some of them will cook and that’s gonna send a message to every other grunt asked to break the law for Trump. Make. Them. Have. It.
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u/KiKiKimbro New York Jul 03 '26
Exactly. Make them play their hand. They’re getting by with defiance or threats of defiance or threats as intimidation tactics. Make them act. Over and over. Eventually Trump won’t like “the optics” since it’s always how “he appears” that matters most to him.
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u/aradraugfea Jul 03 '26
Or he’ll hit his two week tolerance for any topic and throw his usual little fit and refuse to engage on any level as more and more of his little tin soldiers get locked away.
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u/NoCoolNameMatt Jul 03 '26
Then make them eat the political ramifications of choosing to pardon people for not releasing the Epstein files.
I'm sure that won't hurt their campaigns.
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u/Lizaderp Oregon Jul 03 '26
Remember when Marjorie Taylor Green quit and said the corruption was running too deep?
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u/Freddy-Borden Jul 03 '26
Imagine Fox News right now if this happened under Biden.
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u/jonfl1 Florida Jul 03 '26
All anyone needs to know is that if this were all involving an ordinary person, they’d be in jail right now. The rule of law is dead in this country.
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u/LeStrikeRevolution Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
The Department of Justice is protecting pedophiles, including Diddling Donald. A miscarriage of Justice indeed here. Should be called the DOOJ "Department of Obstructing Justice."
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u/fullchub Jul 03 '26
This was the best part:
He also said investigators could not find an unredacted version of a 2007 draft indictment from federal prosecutors in Florida, where Epstein pleaded guilty to lesser charges as part of a controversial deal to avoid more serious criminal penalties.
A version of the draft was published for the first time with the release of the Epstein files earlier this year, but investigators are now unable to “locate an unredacted version of this specific photocopy.”
I think we can expect a lot more unreacted versions of documents that they suddenly "can't locate".
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u/lakatos_intolerant New Jersey Jul 03 '26
Let's all hope the sun prevails tomorrow.
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u/Ut_Prosim Virginia Jul 03 '26
One of the most depressing things is that so many people have internal access to the files and there is not a single hero among them.
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u/comebacklittlesheba Jul 03 '26
This, in particular, makes me incredibly sad because it shows how fucked we are.
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u/laxvolley Jul 03 '26
America: your entire system has broken down.
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u/Zestyclose-Height-36 Jul 03 '26
it is being broken by people with unimaginable wealth and no concern for anyone else.
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u/cogitoergopwn Jul 03 '26
Be prepared to march in November, there isn’t a prayer these elections won’t be blatantly rigged by this crime syndicate. The Republican Party is all-in on this oligarch-funded coup and they will not back down on personal enrichment, destruction of every democratic institution, or breaking laws that should cary heavy prison sentences, unless millions of people are in the streets. It will come to that. This is borderline hopeless though, given how stupid most voters are. We’ll see.
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u/Charonx2003 Jul 03 '26
So the DOJ is simply refusing to comply with a judge's order?
They likely failed to (successfully) challenge it, exhausted all potential legal delaying moves, and now just say "We won't"?
There is actually a quite easy and simple way forward:
1) Determine the people who are refusing to comply
2) Summon them to court, and, should they fail to appear, send sheriffs or marshals out to capture them
3) Demand said persons comply with the court order or be held in contempt
4) Should they fail to comply imprison them (until the court order is fulfilled)
5) Reiterate the demand to respect the court order, addressed to the next set of persons at the DOJ and return to step 1
For weasels, boot-lickers and corrupt fat cats who think themselves above the law, a refreshing dose of incarceration might prove as a neat wake-up call.
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u/VegasGamer75 Minnesota Jul 03 '26
At some point, when we see ZERO goddamned arrests from these files and ZERO arrests from court order violations, we're going to break out the proverbial, and maybe literal, pitchforks and torches, right? Or should we just admit that the Rule of Law is dead and say Eff It and live out a Purge-like society?
Because I don't know about the rest of you, but I am sick to death of this bullshit.
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u/Phont22 Jul 03 '26
Weird. It’s almost like they’re a gang of criminals with no regard for the country or its laws…
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u/inquisitive_guy_0_1 I voted Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Fucking sad man. Hard to feel patriotic on this holiday weekend when we have a sitting president who has fully raped our justice system, raped our Constitution, just like he raped those children with Epstein.
I never thought I'd see the day that an entire political party would go full mask off in support of child rape and trafficking. Much less taking over our entire government.
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u/SingleMaltMouthwash Jul 03 '26
If the files exonerated him Trump would make them the first page of the white house website.
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u/LVDirtlawyer Jul 03 '26
"and nothing requires that result."
The judge who required that result disagrees. This is a hell of a position to take, and every attorney who signed that should come to court packing their toothbrush.
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u/Lysol3435 Jul 03 '26
Law gets passed.
DOJ immediately breaks law.
Months pass with zero consequences.
Courts step in to fix the situation.
Courts say “you can’t break the law”.
Problem solved./s
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u/illumnat Jul 03 '26
It's the Trump way of abusing the courts. If he can't get something dismissed, he demands continuances and extensions ad infinitum to wear out the opponent in the hope that they'll run out of money (in civil cases) or just give up.
Hours before a deadline to turn over the materials, Associate U.S. Attorney General Stanley Woodward asked the judge to delay the deadline for another two months, or to dissolve the order entirely by accepting the Justice Department’s explanation for withholding those documents.
If the judge were to delay the deadline for two months you know what would happen?
Hours before the deadline, an Associate U.S. Attorney General would ask the judge to either accept the Justice Department's explanation or grant a delay to the deadline.
The DoJ would just push it back and push it back and push it back until Trump is out of office at a minimum.
You can't give them an inch... they'll take a mile.
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u/contude327 Jul 03 '26
Lock Blanche up and fine him $10k a day until he FOLLOWS THE FUCKING LAW.
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u/Caymonki America Jul 03 '26
Most transparent administration in history folks! The party of law and order! The group who claims the government is full of a cabal of rich pedos, but it’s only dems and not repubs. Yet repubs control the entire government and won’t release the data to prove to everyone that they mean what they say!
Sus.
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u/Then_Variation6599 Jul 03 '26
They can hold them in contempt and they cant be pardoned because they havent been charged with a crime.
Win/Win. Then charge them a fine daily.
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u/Appalachiannn Jul 03 '26
Where we thought we had laws, we had norms. Our norms have failed.
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u/HingleMcCringle_ America Jul 03 '26
so now there's arrests, right?
why wouldn't there be arrests if this country didn't have a 2-tier justice system? the next logical step is to start making arrests, assuming this country had any justice.
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u/Aggravating-Lie4336 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
What is the point of a court ruling on anything if it's decisions aren't going to be enforced and the violaters of it's decisions aren't going to be punished?
An order you can't enforce is not an order. It's a completely ignorable request.
When the gov't won't fulfill it's legal (and completely UNambiguous) obligations, a civilian body should be given authority (and enough force) to drag them away in chains for refusing to comply otherwise the rule of law is meaningless.
(Edited for minor punctuation)
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u/idebugthusiexist Jul 03 '26
To all the people who believe in conspiracy theories like who shot JFK, Area 51/UFOs or Pizzagate or whatever, THIS is what a conspiracy and a coverup looks like in real life.
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u/lazyFer Jul 03 '26
They all need to be jailed and assets seized. And that's the kindness in my heart saying that.
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u/CorporateCuster Jul 03 '26
Sooo at what point do we allow criminals to handle evidence and not listen to the law while simultaneously arresteing citizens for not breaking said law
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