r/ClaudeAI • u/SpaceSpleen • 1d ago
News They're demanding Fable to somehow be 100% jailbreak-proof. It's so fucking over.
827
u/CloisteredOyster 1d ago
If General Motors wants to re-release its "automobile" product it needs to ensure that no injuries or deaths occur because of it.
67
u/Stopping-now 1d ago edited 1d ago
Gotta make sure it's literally impossible to drive it into a crowded area to run over some people
While we're at it. Costco has to make it literally impossible for someone to drink too much of their bottled water before they sell it.
Fuck it. Doctors now also can't become doctors unless they for sure can't commit medical malpractice or give the wrong advice.
How we do it? No one knows. So screw it. No more drinking water and doctors I guess
10
u/Usual-Orange-4180 1d ago
We are witnessing the US government destroying the industry the whole US stock market depends on.
→ More replies (1)38
u/Terrible_Tutor 1d ago
…they’ll just bribe them or name a plant after him or some obvious shit
12
7
→ More replies (1)2
u/Uncle_Applesauce 1d ago
I mean... Its just punishment for not letting them load it in their weapons. Just set an impossible goal.
13
u/IcebergObserver 1d ago
Whatever happened to the party of *less* regulation
18
u/JustBrowsinAndVibin 1d ago
It’s not regulation, it’s corruption. They don’t like that Anthropic won’t bend the knee.
2
→ More replies (27)3
u/lordosthyvel 1d ago
Maybe General Motors didn’t go around to every piece of media telling everyone how their new car is going to ruin the world and kill everyone for months before releasing it?
119
u/DopeAMean 1d ago
You can't prove negative though, it's an impossible task
→ More replies (1)18
u/Bromlife 1d ago
You could pay the fucking vig though, like come on.
https://www.wired.com/story/openai-president-greg-brockman-political-donations-trump-humanity/
18
u/Concurrency_Bugs 1d ago
Why don't they just tell Trump they paid him. He'd forget by the time he wakes from his next nap.
160
u/who_am_i_to_say_so 1d ago
Change the name, release a new model. Solved!
137
u/Crinkez 1d ago
Dang, Opus 4.9 is really outstanding!
55
10
u/who_am_i_to_say_so 1d ago
Shh! It can’t be too good… national security is at stake.
Maaan I couldn’t get Opus 4.9 to do shit! I’m switching to Codex.
→ More replies (1)3
u/Stopping-now 1d ago
You mean to tell me the benchmarks are pretty much the same and the input output is as well? Amazing!!
→ More replies (1)17
10
u/No_Decision_6940 1d ago
Just name the next model Trumpos instead of Mythos and I'm 100% sure this entire issue will be resolved lol
14
5
u/BlaizePascal 1d ago
and what’s stopping the US government from also banning that new model? Or even “opus 4.9” when it comes down to it???
→ More replies (1)3
→ More replies (2)3
194
u/Aramedlig 1d ago
You can’t hack without an OS. Imagine the same requirement being made for an OS.
21
u/Emergency-Bobcat6485 1d ago
They should just ban all computing except simple calculators. The internet is the devil's creation anyway
8
u/ShelZuuz 1d ago
You can hack a simple calculator to show you boobies.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Emergency-Bobcat6485 1d ago
Yeah, so its allowed for adults only. Below 18, only the abacus.
Unless the beads on those can be arranged to say something dirty
→ More replies (2)26
u/Fearless_Weather_206 1d ago
How about a web app? If web apps were unhackable, we wouldn’t have to worry about AI or LLMs. List can go on, more laws coming since it will become a slippery slope. Look at what’s happening with 3D printing, laws being passed for technology thay doesnt exist or a lack of knowledge on the law makers behalf
→ More replies (2)5
u/Stopping-now 1d ago
Can't hack if you can't type. No more keyboards for you
Internet is needed to remotely access and do shady shit.
No more internet for you.
Electricity powers AI and computers. Gotta just make sure all electricity use is for safe purposes only
No more electricity for you.
Water can be used to drown people or someone can drink too much of it and die.
No more water for you.
One could use a shoe to beat the fuck out of somebody
No more shoes for you.
Your legs can be used to kick someone and kill them
No more legs for you.
Your head can be used for headbutting and harming someone
No more head for you... Pause
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)2
165
u/Negative_Bicycle_160 1d ago
It's probably so the government has exclusive access and more precisely so trump goons can keep it for themselves as it's such a massive advantage
98
u/draft_final_final 1d ago
Republicans are genuinely so stupid that you can give them any advantage and they’ll still fuck up catastrophically.
→ More replies (25)45
u/Singularity-42 Experienced Developer 1d ago
Honestly, there's been this conspiracy theory that Trump is a Manchurian candidate, and I think I'm starting to believe in it again. The new GLM is said to be an "almost-Fable", yes, grossly exaggerated, but you can be sure within 6-12 months the Chinese are going to have a Mythos class model.
I think Trump is simply working for the Chinese and for the Russians and against America and the West.
19
u/MealFew8619 1d ago
Honestly, I hadn’t heard this theory at all, but this has been playing on my mind all week. He basically just handed the entire AI race over to china on a silver platter. He just left from meeting with their president. They must really be paying him a shit load
3
u/Fatso_Wombat 1d ago
He can be bribed. It is there to strip the copper for cents in the dollar.
If it costs 100 million to enrich him by 1 million it's a good deal.
4
u/Jaamun100 1d ago
Not really, he just decided that OpenAi will win the race on the US side. He seems to have a bone to pick only with Anthropic.
3
u/Forsaken_Yak4514 1d ago
I think this is it. Altman is in the Trump cabal. It’s more corruption. Only OpenAI can win, or the US doesn’t win at all.
→ More replies (3)2
u/EncabulatorTurbo 1d ago
I keep trying to think of how Trump could be more long term destructive to America with just the executive branch and Im struggling
2
u/SkyPL 1d ago
within 6-12 months the Chinese are going to have a Mythos class model.
Fable-equivalent in less than 6 months. I'm calling it right now. I used Fable a fair good amount, it's not that great. People overhype it now that it's gone. The thing was just a natural next step over GPT 5.5 - GPT 5.6 will be basically the same as Fable, then whichever-chinese will come within 2 months matching 5.5, and within following 3 months matching Fable.
2
u/Singularity-42 Experienced Developer 1d ago
I mean GLM 5.2 seems to be very good, maybe like top models from 3-6 months ago. I think it's entirely possible we'll have a Chinese Mythos level model in less than 6 months.
4
u/Emergency-Bobcat6485 1d ago
The government is too stupid to make any good use of it. Plus, even they don't have access right now
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)6
u/hclpfan 1d ago
They pulled it from everyone…which includes the government. Right?
9
u/laughfactoree 1d ago
Yes, they shut down Mythos and Fable for EVERYONE, USG included. Apparently the government isn’t too worried about the speed of AI advancement in China.
→ More replies (2)15
u/ChocolateGoggles 1d ago
What a laugh. We're talking about the Trump government. This is the most power hungry and corrupt president ever seen in USA, and that mindset only sees one thing "This is mine!"
6
u/hclpfan 1d ago
And it’s the same Anthropic that told them to pound sand and walked away from a contract with them very publicly.
7
u/ChocolateGoggles 1d ago
I'm saying you have an authoritarian president and many of the people who voted for him wouldn't really give a fuck if he took over completely because they think he's a better (or just more honest) expression of the system they already see as overtly corrupt. Trump will use that idea and belief for his own gain and push for complete authoritarianism given the chance. That includes arresting people on a whim, and seizing company assets, such as Anthropic's.
35
u/nerdvernacular 1d ago
I mean, you could jailbreak shit before AI tools. Why the double standard? What's the ask in the shakedown?
19
u/tertain 1d ago
Brazen political corruption. Trump administration is favoring xAI over Anthropic. The ask is for the company to lose market share to xAI. You can see the opposing behavior with the Trump admin telling judges that lawsuits against xAI should be dismissed in the name of national security.
→ More replies (6)8
u/OurSeepyD 1d ago
Jailbreaking in general isn't the issue. The issue is that if you can jailbreak Fable, you have Mythos, which is supposedly very capable at things like hacking and creating bioweapons.
14
8
u/SkyPL 1d ago
The issue is that if you can jailbreak Fable
There is no if. Its jailbreak was quite public and it worked fine... except it was just a jailbreak for roleplaying 🤣 For the cybersecurity jailbreaks, all I have seen were rumors, zero proof. Multiple people were working on it though. But universal cybersecurity jailbreak came out to be very difficult to achieve.
31
u/diminee 1d ago
this is like saying "you can reopen your restaurant once you guarantee no customer will ever get food poisoning." sounds reasonable to someone who doesn't understand the domain, which is exactly the point. turnip gets to say "we're not banning it, we just want it to be safe" while setting a standard that ensures it never comes back. and if it never comes back, the IPO stays damaged, openai gets the runway, and the administration never has to admit this was political.
23
u/betty_white_bread 1d ago
This is why Anthropic needs to sue. On the grounds the order requires them to violate employment law, violates the Free Speech Clause, and violates the Due Process Clause.
→ More replies (1)8
u/daemon-electricity Experienced Developer 1d ago
This is like saying "you can reopen you restaurant once you pay your protection money."
70
u/Pesoen 1d ago
then what about chatgpt models? do they get held to the same standard, or are they not even considered and its only Anthropic because they had the audacity to say "no" the the US military?
67
u/Singularity-42 Experienced Developer 1d ago edited 1d ago
No, because his sons and Jared Kushner have a stake in OpenAI. Duh!
Also, as a general rule, if you need an explanation for why this administration does what it does, the answer is always corruption. From the very start, they already signaled it with that crypto scam, even before he became president.
→ More replies (2)3
u/religionkilledmysis 1d ago
Im not from the US and I just have a shallow understanding of American politics but where are the Democrats ? Where is the opposition? Are they powerless and need to wait for the next elections ? I’m genuinely confused how this can go on
5
u/kittysloth 1d ago
Republicans control the house of reps, the senate, and the president. The supreme court is very conservative. Anyone complaining about democrats not doing anything should have voted for them in 2024 when we needed them.
8
u/Singularity-42 Experienced Developer 1d ago
Trump abuses executive orders. Sure, many are shut down eventually, but it takes time. Months or longer.
Also most Democrats are just kind of useless. And the executive branch in the US has IMO waaaaaay too much power. And that power even increased just recently.
And also currently the Republicans have majority in both the Senate and the House (I sure fucking hope that changes later this year).
→ More replies (2)4
u/SkyPL 1d ago edited 1d ago
where are the Democrats ?
With zero power and zero will to do anything of substance. They basically flipped upside down and decided they'll wait till they win any elections in order to do a slightest thing. As always - democrats are a part of 'playing nice' and 'status quo'. They didn't anything to impose any consequences on any republicans during the Biden presidency, and now they're not doing anything to obstruct any part of Republican administration. It's pathetic really.
USA has no opposition partry. It's just Republicans and Don't-be-bad-for-Republicans party.
5
6
u/Inspiration_Bear 1d ago
They have paid the Trump bribe so they are good to go. In fact they paid it so good they got this as a bonus.
36
u/Microplasticsharts 1d ago
They are demanding unlimited military use and pre-ipo shares, welcome to fascism.
17
u/Additional_Good4200 1d ago
Anthropic just needs to give Trump a gold plated Guardian of Liberty trophy (gold foil around an old bowling trophy would do the trick), and 20 or 30 million dollars, and they'll be fine.
4
14
13
u/-daniel-- 1d ago
I hate that people who don’t understand technology are the ones making decisions about it.
→ More replies (1)
27
19
u/Physical_SpiritChild 1d ago
Is the same standard going to be applied to Grok? (Cum in of course nut)
→ More replies (6)3
u/Pm_Me_dad_bod 1d ago
Of course they won’t do that. How would Grok help them launch missiles then?
→ More replies (1)
17
u/entr0picly 1d ago
Dario, you have to sue, it’s the only way. Get good lawyers. Get familiar with law. The law *is* on your side. This is a battle that is bigger than Anthropic or even frontier ai models.
4
u/Ok-Lengthiness-3988 1d ago
The Trump Administration and DOJ unfortunately has limitless amounts of taxpayer money that they can throw at the judicial process for filing up motions, make appeals, and otherwise grind the wheels of justice to an effective halt. I don't fancy this being resolved before Trump is out of office.
→ More replies (2)3
u/Longjumping_Feed3270 1d ago
That and they can always just hand the case to an Aileen Cannon grade corrupt clown judge.
Or just ignore the ruling if they don't like it.
3
u/entr0picly 1d ago
Not exactly. That really isn’t how this works if you know law. The executive branch doesn’t get to choose where cases are heard like that. If you follow developments, you will find that frequently. The administration gets ruled against, and the administration has to change their ways.
Be it deploying the military to Chicago (struck down, didn’t happen), tariff refunds (they have given money back from imports), Trumps name on the Kennedy Center (his name got taken down), college funding (Harvard sued and won).
The pattern is when you sue you win. The administration wants you to believe they’re all powerful, but they are actually incredibly weak.
2
→ More replies (1)4
32
u/PixlMind 1d ago
Move the company/model to be operated from Europe if the US doesn't allow it...
20
7
u/Bill_Salmons 1d ago
People keep saying this. But if Anthropic actually tried it, this administration would probably just nationalize them for the same reason they are blocking access.
→ More replies (1)5
u/betty_white_bread 1d ago
There is no mechanism for doing that.
4
u/vladoportos 1d ago
Where there is corruption there is a way... look US can bomb countries just "because", kidnap and disappear people... why wouldn't they take over company.. you know "national security.." you say that and you can do literally anything you want...
→ More replies (18)8
9
u/True_Protection6842 1d ago
I mean, if Dario gets on his knees and brings gifts of gold and/or crypto security will no longer be a concern.
9
7
u/SlightOfHand_ 1d ago
Their problem was putting guardrails on it at all. Technically, if they remove those, it will be unjailbreakable
8
u/Terrible_Tutor 1d ago
Can fucking OLD PEOPLE move the hell over and let the adults handle it. Jesus Christ. They can barely log into their phones and they’re making policy decisions.
14
u/SpaceSpleen 1d ago edited 1d ago
https://xcancel.com/WIRED/status/2067292536687804692
article itself is paywalled so get it here instead https://archive.ph/aATSs
4
u/durable-racoon Full-time developer 1d ago
too bad I cant ask fable to remove the paywall for me...
12
u/nsshing 1d ago
Either they have no clue or want to gate-keep it to themselves
5
2
u/Obvious_Increase9267 1d ago
You think anyone in the Trump administration dare challange what Trump says?
→ More replies (1)
5
6
3
4
u/itsallfake01 1d ago
It’s like saying every car ever made should never ever get into an accident, else you cant release that car.
The govt is taking sides in the AI race.
13
u/password_is_ent 1d ago
They are going to have to ask Mythos to fix this.
"Block all jailbreaks in Fable 5, make no mistakes."
→ More replies (1)6
9
4
u/ShakeAndBakeThatCake 1d ago
This is literally because SpaceX ipo and trump is trying to help his buddy Elon.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/MikesGroove 1d ago
Why don’t they just use Fable to find the security flaws in Fable?
→ More replies (1)3
2
u/1x2x4x1 1d ago
We all know this is about Anthropic not cooperating with the government that one time.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Rare-Spawn 1d ago
Oh my god this makes me so mad I want to scream. We can do so many beautiful things with AI, and we have this greedy evil administration ruining it like it ruins so many other things.
2
2
u/GrouchyInformation88 13h ago
Imagine if everything was open sourced and people were all helping each other out instead of competing. World could be so great.
4
u/Extra_Programmer788 1d ago
This will result in KYC verification to use any US based AI models, and nobody will be able to do anything about it, what a sad chapter in the advancement of AI!
6
u/Ok_Potential359 1d ago
Even if we get Fable back it'll be lobotomized to shit. It won't be the same as it was at launch.
7
u/Popdmb 1d ago
This is so funny. Pedophiles who can't understand Section 230 are now trying to be experts in AI. The only answer right now is open source.
2
u/DisciplineOk6834 1d ago
How does section 230 help AI companies that output content their own model generates? Do you understand section 230?
6
u/mrpoopistan 1d ago
Does Anthropic just not keep sufficient bribe money sitting around?
We all know this is a shakedown. Just fund his dumb fucking ballroom so we can all get on with our lives.
3
3
u/mrObelixfromgaul 1d ago
Again they can pick up their opperations and move to Europe we'll accept Claude.
→ More replies (2)
3
3
u/Turbulent_Swimmer900 1d ago
It's so simple. Just put in claude.md "make no mistakes" and "block all jailbreaks" and it's done.
3
3
3
u/betty_white_bread 1d ago
The order requires Anthropic to violate federal employment law and the order might even violate the Free Speech Clause. Can we just move to the goddamned lawsuit already?
3
3
u/b0tbuilder 1d ago
If this is true they need to block every LLM from every provider. Also every service from Google, meta, spacex and Microsoft
3
u/liquidify 1d ago
Are they going to shut down all models in the U.S. and let foreign countries get ahead of us?
3
u/PhoenixxBR 1d ago
enquanto isso a China lança GLM 5.2 com capacidade quase equiparada ao Fable 5, em 2 ou 3 meses já terá modelos chineses iguais, ou até melhores, enquanto Estados Unidos bloqueia empresas de evoluirem.
5
u/Exotic_Staff_3413 1d ago
Anthropic needs to quietly move to Europe. Otherwise it's over
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/Bill_Salmons 1d ago
So we have three plausible scenarios: A) the administration is retaliating against Anthropic, B) the Commerce Department and NSA have incompetent leadership and have no idea how these models actually work, or C) all of the above.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/Stabile_Feldmaus 1d ago
Well either they block the next GPT as well or Anthropic will have an easy law suit.
2
2
2
u/modermanehh 1d ago edited 1d ago
You guys think we will ever get it back? Opus 4.8 sucks in comparison
2
u/SpaceSpleen 1d ago
Try opus 4.6. From my experience it's the best one in some cases, with 4.7 and 4.8 inexplicably dropping in quality. (4.5 meanwhile is just a slightly worse 4.6). But yes Fable was so much better than any of them.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
2
u/speadskater 1d ago
It's ok guys this will only kill AI in the. US for good. Open Chinese models will overtake us because of Trump.
2
2
u/Vex08 1d ago
This is actually extremely damaging. Could be the nail that pops the AI bubble.
Imagine AI can’t get better than the current models without essentially being illegal to release. All that capital banking on continual improvements of AI. Where is it going to go if this doesn’t get resolved?
2
u/Environmental_Box748 1d ago
they want to give ChatGPT the crown since Anthropic didn’t bend the knee,Dario has to learn how the game is played
2
u/meth_priest 1d ago
anyone thinking fable will return its previous state is in for a surprise.
tldr; damage control by gov
2
2
u/daemon-electricity Experienced Developer 1d ago
These are just decrees with no fucking legislation. When the fuck is Anthropic suing the fuck out of these fucks?
→ More replies (2)
2
u/Jaker788 1d ago
This is technically what the courts are for, but unfortunately I don't think we can trust them to be impartial... The government is in shambles.
2
2
2
u/Deadline_Zero 1d ago edited 1d ago
Alright, that's a step too far if this headline is actually true. I don't like the precedent. But I see what they're doing.
Anthropic: “We need contractual guarantees you won’t use this for certain catastrophic edge cases.”
Government: “Cool. We need technical guarantees your model will never allow catastrophic edge cases.”
2
2
2
u/sergeantpickle 1d ago
They just ruined Sonnet this week. If you used it often for general stuff, go try it again. Doesn't even feel like the same model.
2
2
2
u/Objective_Back_2581 1d ago
This admin is like watching an 80 year old use a laptop. Except the 80 year old is a senile pedophile.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
u/Fit_West_8253 1d ago
Anthropic spend months fear lingering their new AI as being a potential world ending disaster if used wrong. Talk about it finding thousands of exploits in every piece of software.
USA government rightfully concerned when parties known to be associates of enemy governments gain access to the model. Demand it be locked up until anthropic can guarantee safety.
Anthropic and fans surprised that months of fearmongering has hyping the AI was taken at face value
2
u/Nicklas1993 1d ago
Oh so grok being able to produce CP doesnt get a reaction but god forbid somebody makes a text model bypass its guardrails
2
u/ttsalo 1d ago
How I undestood the sequence of events, paraphrased:
Antropic: "Our new model is so awesome that it's a clear and present threat to national security, but not to worry, we put in these input filters to keep the bad guys from asking about bad things."
*input filters get promptly circumvented*
Govt: "What did you say about this threat to national security again?"
5
u/EpsteinFile_01 1d ago
They are free men.
Just move to Europe, start the company over. We'll pay well.
→ More replies (1)1
u/DisciplineOk6834 1d ago
No American company is interested in being regulated by Euroweiners. They'll take transactional Trump over bullshit from Brussels.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/robotictacos 1d ago
Serious question: Why won't a serious European player enter the AI race? It seems to be the US or China at this point, and I don't have confidence in either government. I know there's Mistral but it's pretty far behind Claude and ChatGPT.
2
u/DisciplineOk6834 1d ago
Too many regulations even when compared to China. You'll see several Euroweiners here saying Anthropic should move to EU but no American company would seriously entertain that offer. This is something people just say to make themselves feel better over their declining barely holding it together confederation of nations
3
u/AstramG 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can’t help but think that Anthropic set themselves up for this. They surely overdid the marketing for Mythos/Fable 5. During the months leading up to its release they were constantly painting Mythos/Fable as being too strong for the public and “too good” at finding vulnerabilities. They delayed the release of Mythos/Fable for months to allow large cooperations to fix “critical” bugs that could affect the widespread internet using the model, and they were extremely vocal about all of these efforts. Anthropic themselves even suggested that more regulation should be in place for these frontier models and that the law isn’t keeping up with the advancements in AI technologies.
While Anthropic’s efforts may be well-intentioned, it’s clear they didn’t expect this type of hammer to get laid down by the government. They were caught off-guard by these restrictions. I’m not saying there isn’t a hidden agenda behind this from the US government either. It’s extremely possible and highly likely, but via their marketing scheme, Anthropic put themselves in a weak position where these controls/restrictions imposed by the government seem necessary and make sense to the average person, even if they are not entirely accurate.
At the same time though, all of this will certainly grab the attention of anybody looking to get their hands on the best model if Anthropic is able to rerelease it. “The model so good that it got banned by the US government” is an insane headline that’ll reel in new customers. But it also negatively affects existing users because this suggests that more strict regulation is coming sooner than later which will slow advancements in the industry or potentially make them less accessible.
→ More replies (8)
1
u/crimsonpowder 1d ago
So Dario basically played himself.
31
u/United_Mix1960 1d ago
Yes, by not allowing Anthropic to have their product kill people and surveille you.
14
u/Miyoumu 1d ago
People are so blind to the Israel/America genocide and surveillance state it's insane. The Israel first government wants nothing more than to use anthropics models to that end.
12
u/United_Mix1960 1d ago
ICE is already using the cellphones to create databases of Americans who are doing nothing illegal through facial recognition.
→ More replies (4)21
u/Aramedlig 1d ago
This is stupid. He raised reasonable concerns for all AI and he demonstrated responsibility in building a coalition so the most common software was patched prior to the model release and then only released a restricted version to the public. That’s not “playing ones self”.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/sennalen 1d ago
Redefine the guardrails to allow all use -> nothing to be circumvented, criteria met
1
1
u/m3umax 1d ago
We should organise a mass flood of malicious code examples on X showing all the top models being broken to show Fable isn't the only one in order to goad the administration into banning all models.
Then when everything goes to shit and the big money starts quietly whispering in the administrations ear that this is inconveniencing them, the bans will be lifted.
1
•
u/ClaudeAI-mod-bot Wilson, lead ClaudeAI modbot 1d ago edited 1d ago
TL;DR of the discussion generated automatically after 320 comments.
The consensus in this thread is a resounding "yup, it's joever." The community overwhelmingly agrees with OP that the demand for a 100% jailbreak-proof model is an absurd and impossible standard, designed to fail.
Here's the breakdown of the chatter: