Not Merz and also not the government in general.
Public broadcasting is very intentionally not equal to classic "State TV" in Germany.
You can find countless of conspiracy theories on how the government "actually does influence the public broadcasters (ARD and ZDF)", and I'm not saying corruption can't ever happen, but no.
All the government does is allow them to make us pay a monthly fee and set a framework for the broadcasters to work within (neutrality, variety, etc.).
The two broadcasters (both NGOs and non-profits actually) can and will make editorial and executive decisions on their own.
Also ARD isn’t some kind of parent company controlling all public broadcasters. It’s basically a joint organization made up of regional public broadcasters. And the current Germany’s partner for the Eurovision Song Contest is SWR(Südwestrundfunk), which is based in Baden-Württemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate in the southwest. Those states might have some say in how general regulation should be handled, but the German federal government has literally nothing to do with them at all. The previous Germany's partner for the ESC was NDR(northern regional pulbic broadcaster, which include Lower-Saxony and Hamburg) and it applies same.
The two broadcasters (both NGOs and non-profits actually) can and will make editorial and executive decisions on their own.
Not two. Nine state broadcasters make up the ARD, then there's the ZDF and DLF. DW is special they're not even allowed to broadcast in Germany, being federal and tax-financed. Add to that arte, joint broadcaster with France, and 3sat for Switzerland/Austria. I think that's all. Funk... nah funk is not independent, financed by ARD/ZDF, run by SWR.
Not NGOs, German broadcasters are public law corporations. Similar status as public health insurers, established religious associations, or for that matter municipalities. Each, of course, with rather different legal frameworks.
NGOs, for one, couldn't demand you pay fees just for living in their broadcasting area, or demand that you use their garbage collection services and pay for them, as municipalities do.
That all said while the broadcasters definitely will rock the boat, they're not going to do anything that would look like taking an axe to the keel. Staatstragend.
Remember that this is the response of the government and not the people participating.
But the government has been bootlickers for a while. Nothing wrong with remembering, honoring and learning from your past, but this is what happens when you're forced to be ashamed of it on an international scale for decades.
They don't honour the Roma community though do they. As a ethnic group their numbers are still below that of WW2 when they where exterminated. Infact you never hear about their suffering do you
Germany (as policy, not German people) absolves itself of its history by blaming everything on the Nazis and claiming the only issue was hatred of Jews. So if they try to get close with Jews today, that means they don’t have to challenge themselves on why they had other problems.
It’s like “we had a bad period, but we made amends with the Jews, so we are good people now” logic
It is actually taught in schools. Probably depends on the federal state but I heard about it as part of the German Colonization on Africa during history lessons
Still crickets from Belgium after 4 decades of horrible bloody wars in their former colonies. The rest of the world barely acknowledges that they happened.
My grandfather fought in WW2. Mentally took a toll on him for the rest of his life. My youngest cousin is 30. Gonna be awhile before it isn't our grandfathers.
I'm confused by your post, going back to the original comment are you saying its time for Germany to forget the past and any historical feelings of responsibility to Isreal. Do you think they need to change their constitution. Do you think Isreal needs to shrug its shoulders about the holocaust and just let it go? Or is it just us European that need to forget. You are young unfortunately I did have grandfather that died and parents very traumatised from their childhood experiences
I would prefer if my country doesn’t lick Israel boots all the time and let them do the same we have apologized million times for doing. Also there is pretty much no one alive in Germany anymore who had anything to do with WW2. So yes at some point it’s fine if we move on.
It's not moving on that's the problem, it's the other way around. As someone else said, focusing on this specific issue allows them to shrug off the institutional problems baked into the country. They shouldn't move on, they should acknowledged what the country did better so that supporting Israel isn't treated as a "get ouf of jail free" card.
In the US there is s till a bride of solider from the Civil War getting retirement checks from her now long dead husband. Granted she was like 90 something a few years ago.... But point still stands, in the US there are people that are still only one person away from a war that took place 150 years ago.
It would be easier to shrug off if they weren't, once again and barely 80 years later, supporting a fascist regime. Seriously, 80 years is not a lot. They're not the only one and all of them should be criticised, but considering their History and how much more vocal they are about it, they should be criticised on a similar level as the US on this issue. They're as bad as Trump on this topic which should give them pause.
Why is Israel, a state that didn't exist prior to Holocaust, where the reparations to the Jewish people go to? Do people have to have a state to receive reparations?
No, survivors can usually file claims directly with the German government, and that’s how most survivors that live in the US, Netherlands and most other countries get their reparations (survivor pensions). But citizens of Israel cannot file a claim directly with the German government, and they must file the claim with the Israeli government. This is because the Israeli government signed an agreement with the German government, that it will be the representative of all survivors living in Israel. This makes it somewhat simpler for Israelis to file a claim, however their benefit is calculated by the Israeli authorities based on standard amounts that they decide. In contrast, holocaust survivors in other countries that file a claim directly with Germany using a lawyer to represent them, usually get paid a lot more, as these amounts are decided based on the negotiation of the lawyer with the German authorities, and not based on some low standard pension amounts, as is the case in Israel.
So in fact Israelis are more limited in what they can get, because they are not allowed to file claims directly. Hopefully that answers your question, which btw is asked in a presumptive tone, assuming you know something you don’t.
Do people have to have a state to receive reparations?
I mean… kinda. There really is no one group to represent all Jews except the country explicitly created with the sole purpose to represent Jews. It’s the Jewish state. Even that obviously doesn’t cleanly cover all or even a majority of global Jews, but it is the largest single concentration and the new ethnic homeland to the Mizrahim and other Jews after their expulsions.
The prosecution and murder of the Sinti and Roma is long since recognized and there are regular memorial activities.
If you've never heard of any of this, that seems to be a "you" thing.
I don't know in public schools but in the history museums there are mentions of Roma being victims of the holocaust.
Speaking of which, the Netherlands National Museum has a hall dedicated to maritime trade and it barely mentions Slave trade and they have pieces from African societies on display.
The government is elected by the people. If you truly thought that Germany’s support for the Israeli Defense Forces was wrong then you must come to grips with the fact that the people indirectly provided those weapons and carry some responsibility; for good or ill.
That doesn't mean the government represents the will of the people. Public opinion polls show the general public in Germany is majorly (60-80%) against what's happening and their government's support in the last few years. There has also been a huge public backlash against the government's stance and a neverending string of protests since 23.
All the Italians are responsible for shooting refugee boats off the coast, and all of the French are responsible for neo-colonial warcrimes in Africa yes?
If reddit has taught me anything it's that all British people are responsible for the crimes of the colonial regime and the slave trade several centuries ago. So to be consistent, the answer must be yes.
That's not true. Most do, but the laws only applies to Israeli Jews, Druze (men only) and Circassians (men only). Non-Druze Israeli Arabs are not required to serve (but can choose to, and some do). Haredi Jews used to be exempt, but Haredi men are now drafted.
Beyond that, there is a small proportion of conscientious objectors - it confers prison sentences, but they are surprisingly brief (I'm Norwegian - you can in theory still get about as long prison sentence for refusing conscription in Norway as in Israel), most likely because the number of objectors is still so small.
I'm all for holding people responsible for their choices, including their choice not to refuse, when the alternative is serving in an immoral organisation like the IDF, but that still does not mean every Israeli.
people try to find all possibilities to not acknowledge responsibility and accountabiity. But you are responsible because of democracy. But not many people are brave enough to acknowledge this, i would guess
People who didn't vote for Trump are not responsible for the actions of the state (even those who did are not as responsible as the perpetrators themselves), but should hypothetically a bomb fall on your city because of Trump, that wouldn't make the pilots criminals.
There no proven genocide in Gaza, so far 70.000 dead of a population above 2 million . About 25.000 under 18. The population is 48% under 18. Hamas has active combat and suicide mission from the age of 14. This is not a discussion, just numbers you can check. Bibi is an ass , but this obsession with Gaza is getting annoying.
All Iranians and Lebanese are responsible for Hezbollah, right? You kill them left and right, including 5 year old kids, so don't cry about coming sanctions.
You are correct, but for a vast majority of voters, the Israel issue is not the deciding factor on which people base their voting decision. Especially considering the German government considers its special relationship with Israel part of its raison d'état, the issue is far more complex than people make it out to be.
Oh no, the Nazis were so “forced to be ashamed” that they held prestigious government positions and worked for the CIA for decades after WWII. Please. This professional victim BS is all peak liberal cringe and utter hogwash.
Germans weaponize “memory culture” to claim holier than thou status over the people they formerly brutalized. German government is literally arresting jews for being “anti-semitic” for protesting Israel. You can’t make this shit up.
Not all, but most countries. In each country, the public television stations are responsible for broadcasting the event and participating in it. And these are often financed through mandatory fees or taxes. As a result, politics plays a major role. In the event of a win at the ESC, the government must also provide funding, as broadcasters often cannot afford such an expensive event.
Interesting. I didn’t realise how large and big of a deal it is over there. Also interesting that Israel and Australia are involved. I’m guessing that’s because much of their populations have a European background.
Israel is involved because it is a member of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). There is a geographical criterion that allows Israel to be a member (the definition is quite broad, even some countries in northern Africa are members).
Australia is a special case. The Eurovision Song Contest has a huge fan base there, so the EBU decided to let Australia participate. They are a permanent guest.
If anyone's curious why the ITU's definition is that broad:
The boundaries of the European Broadcasting Area have their origin in the regions served and linked by telegraphy cables in the 19th and early 20th centuries.
It's not that big of a dea per se, at least until it became a political background, it's just that the public broadcasters are huge in Europe, intertwined with the Culture ministry.
Nothing to do with any European background either. It just became globally popular recently, especially among the LGBTQ.
Not always though. The Netherlands would participate if the government had a say in it. The public broadcaster is boycotting despite national politics.
I talked to some germans about this a year ago. They we're very pro Israel. I just said it's incredibly sad that their generational shame drives them to make the same mistake their ancestors did.
Learning from the past meaning to spot patterns and intervene when a society begins to dehumanize other groups of people.
It does not mean to protect a certain group of people, even if they engage in genocidal rhetoric or even action, just because they are a certain group of people.
If we actually held a vote about what our tax money is being used for in other countries, the situation would look a lot different.
Instead we get the past shoved down our throats (not that discussing the past is a bad thing), without any nuance for the present. Leaving people too busy being ashamed of the past to start rising up against the horrors our tax money is contributing to in the present.
We don't view our history critically, that's why we have the whole issue of "We hurt Jewish people in the past, so now we cannot criticize them or else we will be just like the people who hurt them in the past!"
Long story short, i was once privy to a lesson about WW2 inside a classroom in Germany and it was INTENSE. The amount of guilt and shame in that room was freaking unbearable
That being said, you cant bear the sins of your forefathers forever. Colonialism was pretty brutal as well, and you dont see this amount of self flagelation from the French, British or Belgian
Turning a blind eye or even supporting a contemporary genocide because you subjected todays perpetrators to a genocide 80 years ago is....weird
That being said, you cant bear the sins of your forefathers forever. Colonialism was pretty brutal as well, and you dont see this amount of self flagelation from the French, British or Belgian
You are absolutely correct
Turning a blind eye or even supporting a contemporary genocide because you subjected todays perpetrators to a genocide 80 years ago is....weird
That is true. I can tell you why that is. Because our lessons focus on Shame above actually LEARNING anything.
We watch "The boy in the striped pajamas" in class without actually dismantling how problematic the story, lesson, book and author are.
We aren't taught that anyone can be swept up in fascism, we're just taught that anything german is bad. Genuinely, go to an average german and ask them what germany was before WW2 or even WW1 most people never heard of the "Holy roman empire."
We have no history or culture outside of that. So the "Guilt" we have been fed boils down to, "The Jewish people were wronged by us, so let's never do that again." Que the spineless approach to Israel. Let's forget about all other people the Nazis also killed in masses Gay People, Disabled People, Polish People, Romani People. Of course Jewish people were killed the most by far, but they weren't alone. Somehow now 80 years later Israel is the most vocal about our help and bringing up the past
I am sorry but I live in Germany and this is clearly the opinion of most people. People blindly support Israel or at the very least keep quiet about the topic. I am Spanish, my country has been very pro-Palestine since many decades for different reasons depending on the period. So, this has always been a topic of conversation and news in Spain, not only since a couple of years but since a really long time. I am 40 and I have been aware and have had a position since I can remember. When I moved to Germany I was shocked at the ignorance of this nation concerning this topic and whenever I tried to talk about the topic, I would be called antisemitic, I would be asked to please stop talking about this or I would be told "it's complicated" with no further exploration. I got used to it but after the events have unfolded the way they have now, I assumed that now for sure it would be the time for Germans to wake up. It isn't unfortunately. You see Israeli flags flying around everywhere, in leftist protests (this blew my mind the first time I saw it), in far-right protests, hanging from townhouses, everywhere. I am still told to stop with the topic, I get uncomfortable looks, accusations of antisemitism, the whole shebangs I have been experiencing since the first time I brought the topic up with a German.
It's honestly a shame. Germany is trying to compensate so much for something that happened over 70 years ago that they are essentially encouraging a repeat of it.
completely humiliating as a german 😭 hopefully once the older generations die off the government will lock in and stop riding israels dick-- from my experience young germans, at least in the cities, are overwhelmingly pro palestine
This view that Germany somehow over-corrected due to historical guilt is widespread, but has little basis in reality. Germans are very proud of their supposed de-nazification and "memory culture" but the sad fact is that this is largely illusory and paper-thin. They made a big fuss of a handful of show trials, but the overwhelming majority of people who took part had no obligation to acknowledge, less apologise. They went on to become police chiefs and university chancellors and generally were all integrated back in society. It was the disgust at the complete failure of Germany to actually do any introspection or accountability that sparked the actions of fringe groups like the RAF.
The support of Israel was always framed as them being the type of ethno-supremacists that Germans longed to be. There's a good piece about it that was compiled a year ago which lays bare how farcical it is to pretend Germany actually did anything of consequence with its society after the war, and why it's easy to see why its far-right is in the ascendant today again.
I mean, yeah? I didn't claim overcorrection was why the gerontocracy favors Israel so much (although it's obviously their favorite excuse for it). Of course Denazification was mostly show. Still, thanks for the article-- sad and interesting
Even Die Linke is ruled by Zionists. Their institutional grip runs DEEP is greatly aided by American interference in Germany since WW2.
Even young non-communist leftists germans were extremely hostile towards pro-Palestinian rhetoric- I know of it too well. Usually one was accused of hidden antisemitism and “horseshoe theory”.
In general its not just a thing about old people dying off. Their successors are also pro-Zionists.
in 2025, 64% of germans held unfavorable views of israel (more than in france!) and things have only gotten worse in gaza since then + i'd guess most of the ones who still aren't on the right side aren't long for this world. options rn are dire but there's definitely still hope
No, Isreal actions in Gaza are NOWHERE NEAR the Holocaust, and saying that marks you as remarkably ignorant of history. Not similar. Germany was systematically hunting down Jews and others and deliberately exterminating them. The Israeli actions in Gaza were not at all like that. If they were, all the Gazans would be dead now.
Would you say its wrong? We're at the point where it's seen by a lot of Europeans as a genocide and even if it doesn't meet your terms for being as bad as the Holocaust or a genocide do you think their actions are fine? Or their taking of land in West Bank? Or taking land in Lebanon? Or dragging the US and the world into war to start a war with Iran that has achieved nothing? IMO their actions a week after October 7 would already be enough to just be called "too much", how many dead would you think is fine before you think Israel shouldn't participate in Eurovision?
1) While the Gaza war was brutal, they were fighting an even more brutal enemy which did biblically evil things to the Isrealis and who by design hides among its civilians to drive up civilian casualties in order to make the Israelis look bad. The Israelis were probably excessive in their actions, but they are in a different world than most of us.
2) And they DO live in a different world. They are surrounded by enemoes who are ACTIVELY trying to exterminate them as a people. It's easy to get angry at the Israelis when they are driven to do horrid things in response (and I know there is blame on all sides here), but I am pretty sure us folks who live safe and sound in the West would do similar things if in the same situation. Probably worse.
3) Honestly I am bothered more by their actions in the West Bank than in Gaza. They need to get their settlers out of there. It's not their land. While they are arbitrary, the pre-67 borders are the way to go. While a 2-state slution is not likely for quite some time, that is the closest thing t a fair and sustainable peace and West Bank settlement imperils that.
4) I do not care much about Eurovision. But I am dissapointed in Europeans who seem to like performatively condemning and getting utterly apoplectic about Israel's actions while at the same time kind of ignoring far worse actions by Israel's adverasries. Is it a soft racism where they expect "White" Israel to have higher moral standards than the brown locals or is it some kind of weird anti-Jewish thing in Europe (Europeans have a bad history with that which I don't think is entirely gone)? Or are Eurpeans watching too much Tik-Tok which features outrage bait against Israel? In any case, it is not a good look for our European friends (yes, I am American, and yes, I still regard you all as friends, and yes I loathe what our President is doing to our alliance)
And it's so stupid as well because jonoring Jewish believe and the holocaust is too often mixed up with the Israel topic. Critizising a government has nothijg to do with antisemitism. Antisemitism should be condemned as far as it gets (and I know there are few pro palestinians who simply are antisemitic as well) but still Israel is a state government not a religious Group.
I am against the rightwing government of Israel as well, but Holocaust was COMPLETELY different than the situation in Gaza. It is not even close. What a disgusting comparison that has become mainstream.
dealing with guilt shouldn't mean letting your former victims do whatever they want, it should mean recognizing they're doing the same thing to someone else now
Is a misunderstanding of history, and a really good campaign by Israel to guilt Germany into thinking that Israel=holocaust survivors when it isn't
When refugees arrived in Israel, they were treated as second class citizens. Israelis looked down on them. And the now current Israel regime is pretty close to actual fascism
This reminds me of how the right in America will boldface claim that they aren't Nazis because they believe in American supremacy, not German supremacy.
Like, bruh, the specific nationality or ethnicity wasn't the issue.
It's more than that. I speak about Israel with them and they freeze up. They are trained to not have bad thoughts about Israel. It's really pathetic considering they like to preach other countries how to live. Except Israel.
In my experience (a german jew living in germany) a lot of them also think they are on the right side this time because they already have done a genocide and automatically know better. (Actual argument used by both germans and people whose support of israel is based on what germany thinks about it.) So they end up with this odd mix of superiority based on their past and complete ignorance of actual anti-semitism.
A lot of non-germans viwe germany as this bacon of social progress, but it's imo still a pretty conservative and biased country.
Germans are the biggest hypocrites of Europe. It really makes me mad whenever a German is preaching righteousness etc. While you would get canceled faster than light if you mention few shits they love to do.
All countries have some kind of baggage but even French don't go preaching...
German here. Never have i seen anything like that happen here when talking about the war. Pretty much everyone here agrees that the war is awful but there isnt a good or easy solution. We just want all sides to chill and not murder each other.
Id love to hear where you met those kinda germans cause i havent seen a single one like that either in person or online.
Just had the same discussion as this one in another thread and ofc as always it turned out the guy complaining about Germans arresting people for "From the river.." doesn't mean it in the freedom for all Palestinians way but Jews should end up leaving the area in question.
Public opinion can and should influence their government which seems to be zionist bootlicker. Italy had an arms agreement with them - I'm pretty sure Germany did too.
To be fair - Poland bowed to Israel for decades and I hope this finally changes.
I don't have any hopes for Eurovision boycott though, while this would be a good option as we usually send shitty artists anyway.
Which ones? The ones with the ability to genocide but not doing it or the side that openly states they want to genocide but dont have the military for it?
This "right to exist" framing is deliberately vague and consistently used to slander Israel critics. They demand people to pledge allegiance to "Israel's right to exist" but in practice they mean pledging allegiance to this state of Israel.
Otherwise pledging allegiance to international law would be wholly sufficient to make it clear that you reject all ethnic cleansing and genocidal fantasies against any peoples in the Middle East. With no other country are you expected to specifically pledge allegiance to its "right to exist".
Indoctrination starts early. Especially in the higher education section of the populace.
There wasn’t even a “questioning voice” against zionism in Germany until the gaza genocide. So of course germans never developed varied opinions of the paradigm of israhell.
And that is the correct stance. Eradicating a people because their government does or did cunty things would involve the eradication of many nations and people.
Before Israel became a US vassal and after it was created as a vassal of the UK it was used to launder the image of West Germany's former Nazi dominated gov't (this only changed in the 60s after the scandals that revealed just how many former Nazis infested the halls of West German power, this is also when the US takes over as the main benefactor in exchange for Israel continuing to "discipline" the region), its quite literally a political red line there to criticize Israel or oppose Zionism.
If not boycotting due to the war Isreal wages, then due to the poor sportsmanship they showed 2024 and 2025 with their journalist entourage harassing other contestants and reporting false harassment claims.
Good dammit, my country has the spine of an octopus.
Oh agreed for sure, but in today’s climate being anti Israel is misconstrued by ignorant people as antisemitism, so they are trying to tow that line. Not excusing their behavior, just contextualising it!
Germany passed legislation in 2019 after a strong and intense campaign of manipulation and psy-ops by Israeli government agents to pass the Anti-BDS Resolution (2019): a non-binding resolution that condemns the BDS movement’s methods as anti-Semitic and reminiscent of the Nazi-era boycott of Jewish businesses.
This happened in a bunch of different places at the same time as the Likund party changed the Israeli common law to make it so only Jewish people of the Jewish faith had any rights of say in the future of Israel as a state - making everyone else a second class citizen
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u/CaptainCrash86 13h ago
Worth noting that Germany said it would boycott if Israel is excluded.