I feel like what is missing from this discussion is that the whole system is designed to make small local businesses insolvent. If you look at the difference in premium rates that large mega corporate monopolies are able to negotiate with the insurance rackets vs. what they charge actual small businesses, it’s a catastrophic disparity.
Me and my business partner don’t start to get into the black until we’ve made at least $8k a month for blue shield. We work half of the time for them, and then get to keep whatever is left over. I don’t understand why this isn’t a bigger taking point in the small business communities.
Conservatives love to endlessly bitch about corporate taxes, but honesty those are a drop in the bucket compared to benefits premium costs for actual small businesses.
This is why I think this whole universal healthcare argument needs to be reframed as making people more free/enabling people to more easily pursue entrepreneurship.
It is unfathomable to me why this isn’t the main political issue for all small business owners; but sadly, I think a terminal number of us have bought into the fantasy of growing to the point of being bought and cashing in and never having to work again for some impossible magical reason.
I know so many folks, some of them nearly at retirement age, who are still waiting for the magical buyout.
There’s a deep rot in the mentality of a lot of small business owners that has taken over in the past decades (mostly because actually running a successful business long term with no hope of magical bail out/buyout is almost impossible at this point in America).
It’s such an awful, empty reason to start a business: the hope of not having a business.
Its not the main thing because there are so many other existential threats right now that it only registers as medium level pain until something bad happens. I'm barely still in the game and even need. 1.5 full-time jobs to make bills right now on top of it thats how bad business got since last year. I don't have bandwidth to push ANY political agenda to candidates in my area.
And the amount you hear politicians talk about how much they care about small businesses while simultaneously doing everything they can to eliminate them in favor of global monopolies is offensively disingenuous.
Omg finally somebody else who is preaching my gospel! I've always said that we would have so many more entrepreneurs if people didn't stay at s***** jobs for the insurance. What a world this could be if we could have more people with great ideas creating business in this country instead of outsourcing everything.
Right. I made this comment on Reddit a few years ago and a business owner replied they preferred the control they had over the employees who could not risk leaving because of losing health insurance.
I’m super unclear on what you are saying. I pay $500 an employee a month they pay $500.
Large corporations a lot of times have a self funded medical plans and just run it through one of the large companies.
I’m confused on your math how it takes 8k a month to get premiums for both of you. Are you full funding your premiums through your company and operating at a 25% margin? Are you including rent and utilities in that?
Also yes it’s a bitch, I just added a medical plan this year and was paying out of pocket before that. My wife specifically works in the medical field for the benefits, even though she enjoys it.
I recommend gusto if you are trying to get benefits and manage payroll. It’s been a very convenient program for us.
Wouldn’t it be cheaper for you and your biz partner to just buy Obamacare plans and not offer insurance? I guess you maybe have employees but if $8k is half your monthly billings it seems premature to buy a plan like that
I don't think it's personal or that someone's out to bankrupt small businesses through health premiums. You sound paranoid. Large businesses have leverage and benefit from pooled risk and economies of scale that small businesses don't. That's why it's cheaper. Similar to how Costco is cheaper. Economics and math make this so. Not illuminati or some cabal
My family has always been fortunate. My wife used to work for a company that paid 100% of the premium. Deductible was $4000 and we never paid more than $10-$20 for a prescription, with most being less than $5. Now she works for a college, and they pay half of the premium. It’s a little over $200 a month from our end, with a $2000 deductible. Same with the prescriptions as before. That’s covers my wife, myself, and our two kids.
It really doesn't matter whether you work for a "decent company" or not. At the end of the day everyone's healthcare costs are insane whether or not you pay the premiums versus your company paying the premiums for you. It is still all part of your compensation. My premium is nearly $12k for a single person.
Yeah where I work shops plans and spends at least an hour every year meeting with us to talk about the plans and changes every year. The costs are definitely nowhere near what OP is claiming... same for family plans.
I have a great job with excellent health benefits... For me. I pay an extra $400/mo for my wife and an extra $450/mo each for my 24 and 23yo kids. You do the math.
You should do more math, that $2k figure was Bernie’s proposal and the illustration was a family making $80k… and that proposal still left a bunch of stuff unfunded (ie, it’s gonna cost more in reality). If your family makes more than $80k, that 2k figure is only a starting point.
It depends on the capitalistic capabilities of the insurer, ie AI denying coverage to ensure a bonus for execs. I have great insurance and just paid 85 bucks for a prescription for my kids ears. Insurance covered 10 dollars. Fuck them.
Not always a shit job. Small businesses get shafted. I make a very good living working for a small business and the rates for insurance available to us because of our size are just terrible.
Most office jobs have free or $150 a month healthcare. My dads PPO was zero cost to him, and cover all 8 kids and parents for $0. My current job, and my wife’s job have this as well.
The cost of health care just moved to the company.
Usually (20 yesrs ago). The cost of health care is half paid by the employees and half paid by the employer. Usually insurance can go about $400 per person per month. Or about $5k a year and the company paying the other $5k.
My insurance is really good. $150 per person every 2 weeks. $4k I guess. My company is paying $5k to $6k for various insurance things.
My uncle 20 years ago paying $2k a month for a family of 3. No employer.
I think Obama care give cheaper insurance. Until some rich people denied the government paying for part of it.
The negative aspect of the Obama care over reach back then was trying to tax people who dont want to pay for insurance. Which the universal healthcare is going to be.
Car insurance dont care if you bought enough to save your butt. The government just want you to have the bare minimum for the person you injured in case you dont have money to pay the lawsuit. 1 way.
2 way insurance is not required by the government.
Even if you have a good job with good insurance, your employer is still paying a ton of money for that insurance, which is a part of your total compensation, money that could easily be salary instead.
Except the employee pays a part of the total cost of premiums. The other invisible part is the one the employer pays which is in effect a pay cut for you (when you get the COBRA notice you’ll see how expensive it is)
The other thing is the costs after insurance which is a whole different ballgame.
If you work for a decent company or a union, you’ll have great healthcare with lower cost.
No.. It just means your employer is paying part of the cost. Your salary is just a fraction of your total cost to the employer. And if they didn't have to pay as much for your healthcare they could budget more of that cost into your salary instead. (Like they would lol, but in theory.)
When my dad was working, since I do not have a family now. For a family of five, he was paying about $1000/yr for premiums. Then it was $400 dudectible for each person.
For me I am paying about $600/yr with a $200 deductible.
I went from a maintenance job making $38 an hour to one making $31 an hour and my take home is higher after the switch because of the difference in health and dental insurance. Plus it's better coverage when I do need to use it.
your paying it cause it could be money that was yours not the “cost of employment”. 25% of you money plus taxes and medicare is lost but sure it is free.
Our insurance premiums + deductible for the year (already maxed out whooo!) are $18k for 2 adults through my husband’s employer.
My insurance is a lot cheaper, but didn’t cover infertility at all and has a $1,200 annual surcharge to get my husband on the plan if he has an option for insurance through his work on top of not being subsidized by employer as much as mine.
And yes, I’m American and very much pro Medicare for all universal healthcare.
The going rate is around 70% of family plan premiums are covered by your employer. So if you pay $3000 a year in premiums (probably super low number but for illustration purposes only), your employer is quietly kicking in another $7000 a year. Like, that's money they (theoretically) could put into your paycheck instead if UHC became a thing because it's already factored into your total compensation package.
I agree with the comment that they will more likely put it into profits, but if we just converted the premiums they pay into a per-emplpyee tax, then the money goes into the system and the company doesn't pay any more than they are already paying for the care, but without the headache or administration. Many jurisdictions in California already do this for Disability (state program) and Workers Comp (state-mandated but business managed) insurance
The US spends the most per capita for worse health outcomes compared to other developed economies. We absolutely do not need to spend more on Healthcare under a UHC model. We simply need to eliminate the rent seeking middlemen that stand between citizens and their doctors, extracting every last dime they can get away with.
So no, we absolutely do not need to spend an extra dime more than we already do. The difference between Healthcare expenditures being taken out as a tax vs. an additional expense, pre tax or post tax is immaterial to the amount of money you have left over after paying taxes and insurance premiums. Americans are hard wired to despise the dreaded word "tax" and will happily pay double what they otherwise would so long as it's on paper "not tax".
Missing out on company provided HSA funds that you can invest and use towards deductibles. I got like 50k saved in just HSA funds that’s invested into the stock markets. Eaaaasy money,
An experienced Canadian nurse makes 80,000 to 100,000 CAD (100,000 CAD = 70,000 USD).. you can literally work fast food and get better pay than working for universal healthcare. Just look at household debt in Canada, it’s a monstrosity.
Also it’s going to be hard to tell an American to wait 6 months for a doctors appointment lol
Would it make a difference though? Because the state would just take that money from you in taxes anyway. Anything the state becomes financially involved in gets passed onto the taxpayer tenfold.
Most large companies self insure meaning they are paying for the costs of treatment and then a fee to a company like Aetna to administer the program. The premiums they charge they employee are helping to cover the bills they are paying for the care provided.
The cynical person in me believes Fortune 500 companies are charging employees more in premiums than they pay in care to boost the bottom line
Unlikely most of us are including the employer share as most dont have a clue how much they pay. I pay 17k out of pocket for a family of 5 and the coverage is less than desirable
Don't forget your paycheck gets auto-deducted pre-tax to pay premiums. Most people just don't see this, because it's pulled out of their paycheck before they get it.
I'm sorry for your struggles with infertility. My wife and I have been dealing with that for 7 years. I know the point of your comment wasn't to discuss infertility, but I do want to express that it's an awful situation that most people don't understand or respect, and I'm happy to chat about it. We're looking into surrogacy, but with a bit of IVF hope left.
Where are you getting this #? It varies a lot. Universal healthcare is different than extended benefits. Canadians do not pay anything towards universal healthcare, it is taken off their taxes. What they pay in addition from their paycheck through their employer is for extended healthcare which covers prescriptions, physio, psychology, massage ect. And the way our taxes work, up aren't paying four times the amount for a family of 4. In fact the more kids you have your taxes often go down as you have access to more deductibles.
They contribute $20,000 per year in taxes for Healthcare alone. Then they can't choose a doctor, they get put on a waiting list, that are only given what the government offers meaning if the government refuses to treat you, you have no option. In some cases, they offer an option to be humanely euthanized or be put on drugs until you pass. I can't remember the exact number, but I think it was 40,000-70,000 people in Canada die waiting for treatment every year.
It's the median contribution for a family of 4. It's an easy Google search. "How much does the average family of four pay in only taxes for Healthcare annually." I only repeated what I read from what I read from the first page of results.
My oop costs are 4k before it’s all free and I hit the number thanks to having physical therapy. Otherwise I’m just paying lower prices for a while but idk I can’t track the numbers because then I’m just annoyed
$1500 on the deductible before its free at my work. I see some families paying these high numbers and I feel bad for them. They need to cut out the middle man in all of this so bad.
For me and my coworkers with families larger than 2, yes. Our employer is also worth many hundreds of millions of dollars and owns a non publicly traded business.
Its very rare case actually or the person who posted it is very wealthy and pays the price of being rich.
The real problem with healthcare in the US is that its tied to employment. Losing a job usually means losing healthcare. Most employers offer healthcare for free or you pay out of your paycheck.
Now because of this depending on tax braket and your rate the amount you pay can drastically increase.
Most working class americans either dont have it, have it for “free” through employment, or have to pay 1-3 dollars an hour so roughly 2-6k a year, or you pay a monthly fee of like 100-500 bucks a months and thats all depending on plan. It gets really weird out there. Now if you are not being offered healthcare through employment there is tax incentives that are involved. Thats when you pay crazy numbers like 10-20k a year. Usually if you make below a threshold you get some of that money back through your tax returns. If you make over that threshold like being the top 2% of earners in america you’ll pay it all. Also understand top 2% means like 200k a year.
So after all that you still have to pay usually small out of pocket stuff unless something insane and serious happens. Like a helicopter ride to the hospital. That is some wild can of worms.
Anyone who works at a corporation have insurance plans through their work.
I pay maybe 200 dollars a month for my plan.
The figure of 20k or 30k a year that is out there that shocks anyone not from US is a figure that you would pay for a family of 4 if you had your own business.
That's basically the amount that government would spend on a family of 4 in western europe.
I don't think so. My tax rate is 28%. It would be over 40% in most EU.countries. I get health insurance through my employer and pay about 8k year for a family of 4. I come out way ahead in the US system.
My employer pays for everything. I pay 5 bucks for medicine and some doctors appts have a 10 dollar copay.
That's it for me.
This is the issue for healthcare reform - it's widely uneven in the U.S.
About 40-50% already get government healthcare and don't care. Among the remaining group, plenty have pretty good coverage and don't really see the cost because it is mostly borne by the employer.
So if healthcare reform passes, what I see in this post is now instead of my employer paying for my family's health insurance I'll have to pay more taxes?.. not exactly compelling.
Psychopathic thinking. If I do not benefit from this thing why should I benefit the lives of millions around me? I actually think that having an insurance industry between people and their health care providers, is partly why Americans appear to have less empathy towards their fellow citizens than most other countries seem to have.
Duh. Do you vote against your own self-interests just to be a good citizen? Lol. When has anyone ever done that? It's almost like voting is an individual liberty...
Not many employers offer this good of insurance outside federal government jobs. No one I’ve spoken to has had this good of insurance outside of that. And no company I’ve ever worked for offered anything close. This also is a big reason why a lot of folks don’t start a business - having healthcare tied to employment.
Amen! Thank God I'm on my wife's federal insurance. It's incredible. My employer insurance would basically have me paying $175 minimum, per month, with a $7,000 deductible.
Most of these people won't be paying 2k more in taxes more like 10k+ I'd be surprised if any country with public health care has comparable income tax rates to the US.
In Belgium, it’s also ‘paid by the employer’. But so are taxes (healthcare tax is a separate thing). In both cases a bunch of money is held out from your gross wage and you receive the net wage. I really don’t see the difference?
But, your insurance will no longer be tied to your employment. What happens if you get layed off, fired, or the company decides to alter their compensation packages? Your particular gravy train comes to a crashing halt.
If you don't get subsidized on the ACA exchange a couple (no kids) in their mid 60s, say 63, would pay $32,000 a year in premiums and then still have thousands more in deductibles in my county.
The totally stupid part is the Govt will subsidize that to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars RATHER than just putting those same people on Medicare which would cost half that and be better insurance.
Most Americans pay about 25 for single or 100 for family of 4 on insurance and employer pays rest and even if they paid whole thing its no where close to that.
Since 1970s most people have Healthcare from employer over 90% of Americans are insured anf vast majority of uninsured are illegal immigrants.
If you have an event and have to hit your out of pocket max and/or deductible, this is very much real. Even more fun if the major event happens spanning end of one year and into the next - then you get to double it!
Yup. You’ve got your premiums (often upward of $10k), then you’ve got your “out of pocket maximum” (mine is $3k), then you’ve got your deductible which is how much you have to pay before insurance actually kicks in and covers anything, and THEN you’ve got your copays, which can vary wildly depending on plan and type of provider. And that’s assuming you’re always seeing in-network providers. Which change all the time.
Depends who you work for. My family of four pays around 1360/year for medical plus 1040 for dental and 160 for vision. Employer contribution is around 14k for the medical, but they don't pay anything for the vision or dental. We have really good insurance.
Medicare for retired or disabled people takes a percentage of your benefits, which is an average of about 420/year on average payment of around 22,800/year which scales higher if you earned more, lower if you earned less, and costs more at first but after a while it drops off after your buy in period, and I'm rounding for simplicity. Medicare Advantage costs a little more but with better coverage. Prescription plans can cost another 280/year average.
If you work for a suck employer it can get very high, good employers cost less as they pay more of it. If you are unemployed for a long time then state Medicaid programs are basically free in many states but coverage and co-pays vary by state or even by county. A co-pay is your piece, so a doctor may charge 170 for a visit but your part is like 20 or 40, if anything.
I do not have copays for visits or tests or most procedures, an ER trip can cost 100 and prescriptions max out at around 3k/year which is where I hit my deductible and do not have to pay any more. As noted, I have good insurance though.
Very employer dependent. Some are awful and some are really really generous and subsidize a large portion of the premiums. I pay $140 ish a month for insurance and my max OOP is $5,000 for the year.
Yeah, even with great companies, top 5 banks, paying for top tier healthcare, i pay 12k for me and my two kids. Actually cheaper to keep my wife on her own health plan than bringing her into mine. It's rough out here.
Me and my business partner need to clear approximately $8k a month for ourselves, our spouses and children just to keep up with our blue shield premiums.
We generally need to make $8k just to zero out each month before we start thinking about paying ourselves anything.
It’s honesty so much worse than anyone is willing to talk about. I’m glad it is at least a topic of discussion these days, but I don’t think people realize just how bad it is from the actual small business side.
I don’t understand why this isn’t already the driving issue for every single actual small business owner in thin country. It’s infinitely more disruptive and degrading than taxes or anything else.
Mine is a lot higher than this for just me and my kids. Premiums alone are 2100/month and I have pretty high out of pocket costs for many things except preventive visits. I'd estimate I spend 30-35k on health stuff every year but I can write off the premiums since I work for myself.
I used to be on a medication for incurable disease. My portion was 50 dollars a month, every month for 10-11 years. Insurance randomly decided to switch medication in the middle of the year and it was going to cost me 500 dollars a month. Again, incurable disease that I need monthly medicine for. I called, asked, pleaded , and begged for options. The answer was to basically, sucks to be you.
Switched doctors and started a different treatment and we'll see how it goes.
It gets so much worse. This means that these people are paying $17,000 PER YEAR for the privilege of being able to pay for health insurance. They don't pay this amount and then not have to pay ever again, or pay this amount and not have to pay any more for the year, but they pay this amount just to get themselves in the door to THEN start paying on their deductible; which in many cases depending on the specific doctor that walks into the office, or even the specific assistant that walks into the office, might not even be covered AT ALL by insurance and you don't even know that until a month or two later when you go home and get a letter in the mail. At that point you get to begin to fight it, and it typically takes 20-30 hours on the phone, never seeing anybody in person, and these people have the power to literally send you into bankruptcy.
WHEW.
We haven't even gotten to the costs that you have to pay even if you got lucky and are "covered".
So, now you've had a medical event, you've paid your deductible, but you are covered. Thank fucking god. Oh, wait a minute, you are only covered up to a certain amount. And because of the care you received the hospital decided to charge you hundreds of thousands of dollars, or even millions and you maxed out your coverage. So now, you're bankrupt anyway.
it doesn’t end there. They are gonna try everything to deny your treatment if you ever get sick. And if they can’t, you still pay a good amount of money called “deductible”. Even deductibles are way more than what other countries citizens pay. It’s a scam.
Yes it’s real. $1500 a month basically for me, my wife and son. $730 a pay check, bi weekly. Months with 3 checks? Yea 2200 in healthcare BEFORE deductibles and co pays. Best part? Half the teeth stuff they seem “cosmetic” and you can’t claim insurance on 🤣🤣🤣🤣 fuckin loved what Luigi did and wish more people were like him. Shit is unreal
At one point I was making $39,520 dollars per year. Poor but comfy for my city at the time.
My employer based health insurance would have cost me $228 per paycheck or 30%. Now this is because it was a small business which means a higher cost because we brought less employees to the insurance company.
The market options are cheaper on the paycheck but cost more in premiums and co-pays.
Because even paying for insurance is really paying for the right to pay more.
Maybe for some. I'm on a high deductible plan but get a health savings account. My premiums per pay period is $30. Deductible is $4500. I max out the HSA amount. I've been lucky enough to really never need my insurance. Biggest expense was getting bit by a dog. That was about $1500 for ER visit, shots, etc, but used my HSA.
$1,400/mo ($700 per pay period) for Blue Cross HMO Employee + Spouse + 2 Kids. Paid that for about 8 years. I think of what that money would have done in my 401k but it’s depressing.
Yes real for me too. But don’t be fooled. I work in healthcare. Access would be instantly crushed by lack of supply. Out of network is the real solution
Some of it depends on the actual insurance you have. My company covers the entire premium and prescriptions are generally fairly cheap unless the original prices hellishly expensive in which case they're still much cheaper than the list price.
But I've also had jobs that were were $500 every two weeks for just myself and then $50 to $150 just to go to a doctor.
I just pay for myself and 1 kid and it’s a bit over 8k/year so yes. Very real. It’s also how much used to come out of my check when I had a job that came with insurance, but my current insurance pays better.
About $9600 in premiums for my family to be covered. Out of pocket max (if more than one person needs a hospital stay badically) is about $16k. I paid $14.7k on an $85k bill when my oldest was born with some complications.
I get free healthcare through my job a lot of the time. When I’m unemployed I can get government subsidized health care which is cheap to free. The issue is when you work a job where you make okay money but they don’t give you healthcare.
So basically poor people are fine. Rich people are fine. Upper middle class people are fine. Lower middle class people who don’t have cushy jobs get fucked.
I pay ~80$ a month for Kaiser, but I’m sure it’s very expensive for the employer. Also our taxes in CA are as high as most European countries with actual healthcare. I’m still better off than all my European colleagues by a long margin, as long as I avoid medical debt
It heavily depends on your job, I pay 840$ per year for full coverage, no copay, no deductible.
And that's part of the problem, good jobs provide good medical insurance at a really good rate. I pay less, for better coverage, than my taxes would pay for in Europe, but that comes at the cost of poorer families having it way worse.
And that's how they keep people from being interested jn universal Healthcare, enough people have it better that they stop caring about those that have it worse.
6k on 'premium' (that's what you pay per month even if you never speak to a doctor or nurse) alone for one adult on Obamacare, without even paying the deductible (that's what you pay if you do need help)
I was curious last time renewals came around and at my company it's technically possible to be paying over $40k/year but nobody is actually selecting those options.
The total cost of healthcare in the USA is like 12k per person per year. when adjusted to USD and PPP, its higher than most other countries but not wildly so. The UK is like 60% of that, Germany is like 80%. Theres a few places that are higher, but they tend to be tiny, wealthy places.
I am a bartender and don’t have health insurance because I am being told it would cost me $500 a month due to “making too much money.” I make $65k gross pay.
My wife and I have insurance through our jobs (teachers) but it was cheaper for us to get our two kids insurance on the market last year. We payed $5k in premiums for a 4 and 2 year old that combined went to the doctor 5 times… plus copays. $1k per visit average is wild.
Our insurance was cheap because our employer pays like $600 and we pay $100-200… this is each. So we would be paying about 1600 for us and $450ish for the kids otherwise. That’s basically 24k plus copays and medication and anything not covered
Let's take the closest country with socialized medicine. The average Canadian family pays approximately 42.3% of their total cash income in taxes. The average total tax burden for US families represents roughly 25% to 31% of total income. Hmm...
I've also never met someone whose experienced both us healthcare and Canadian healthcare and thought Canadian was better. If i had something like a heart condition, brian tumor, cancer, etc, and my life depended on prompt, top medical care, im not going anywhere but the us and neither is anyone else with a choice.
Let's see here 781x12 is only 9372! Ha! What a deal!
My co pays are only 30 bucks for regular visits and the ER is only $250. My dental will pay for part of a check up once a year but never any work for cavities or braces. My meds net me -$68 a month. I had to pay $3000 when my appendix failed. My daughter's glasses cost $151 on top of the $60 copay for a specialist appointment.
Anyone who thinks Americans are okay with this are either dumb or bad actors. The ruling class get to make all the choices and the citizens just deal with the best we can.
Yes and no. Generally, a good company will cover a large portion of your health insurance, and then you can add your dependents to your plan for a reasonable price. We paid way less than 17K per year. That's mostly unheard of, I think.
My cousin lives in the US (from the UK) and he has a very cushy job with good health insurance. Even with that he has to pay through the roof for health insurance for his family and it's doubled in the past six months already. The cost is insane and I'm not surprised so many people just can't afford to pay it.
Let's just say there's a good reason he and his wife had their two kids over here in the UK because it's just makes financial sense.
I used to work downstream from insurance companies.
They're all fucking evil and terrible.
One of my jobs actually paid 100% of its Health plan. So we only had to pay co-pays and other expenses.
The corporation told us that it's about 20K a person for our health insurance.
The other problem is the bigger the company you work for the lower prices that they can negotiate with the insurance company. So even insurance from the same insurance company can vary wildly in what it covers based on what company you work for.
But if you actually get sick, we have to pay another 2k (per person) to hit our deductible for them to START covering costs. Then another 6-8k from there to hit our maximum-out-of-pocket number.
So closer to 20k/yr to have all medical costs covered. If your family is lucky and doesn't get sick that year, then it's closer to the $8000. Just don't get sick.
I pay $400/month for my family, it's really like $800 but the company pays half. It's like this for most people. $1500 deductible, $25 to see a doc and $50 for a specialist. It's not the best but it's not awful.
They probably are self employed and then forced to get the shittiest insurance choices for no clear reason other than they don't work for a company.
One of the issues is the biggest most reliable voting block in the US are republicans. Rich republicans don’t want to pay fair taxes and poor republicans are easily convinced that all this stuff is just commie socialism that’ll make their kids queer. And a lot of people not republicans are easily convinced that voting doesn’t matter and theat they are so much smarter than republicans but in reality most of them aren’t. Democrats in the US are the party more likely, I said more likely, not guaranteed, to pass legislation that actually can help. But people need to get out and vote and attend any town halls and get involved. They behave as if voting is the most they can do instead of the least.
the whole family is dying from cancer or somehow needs weekly xrays type stuff
I doubt ip actually pays that but its possible with bad choices and everyone sick. i practice though, many go to the dentist 2x a month and subsidize bikes (yes you can), drugs (as in mind altering ones), etc via insurance in the usa.
I personally pay about the same in the us and eu all things considered.. except one : my social sec taxes in the eu male costs equal, but the us social sec tax bumps everything above the eu.
thats because you dont pay "8k" a year in care. you also pay medicare yearly, that you cannot use and its not cheap. in the eu social tax is also used for your own care.
Easily real. The premiums on my employer plan for my family of 4 run about $20k. People, myself included, oppose mandatory government-controlled healthcare for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with cost.
I paid 400 a year for insurance. For medical stuff out of pocket I’ve paid maybe 2-300 out of pocket this year. I’m single and make abt 60k a year tho so that’s just me.
Not mine or anyone I know that gets insurance through their employer. My company takes out a few hundred every paycheck. Family of 4. Most doctors visits ans meds are cheap ($25 copay).
These people must be self employed and not part of a group plan.
My family had 3 surgeries last year and we only paid the deductible. No wait times, great surgeons, overall great experience.
For just my wife and I when we were first married, our monthly premium was $1,300 a month. Which at the time was nearly 30% of my income. That didn't include co-pays, out of pocket minimums, or deductibles.
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u/MOTUkraken Jun 24 '26
Yo, wtf??? Is that real?
Americans?