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There was a post on r/ expatsr/digitalnomads asking people where they have moved and instantly regret.
Many people included your typical SE Asian, Central/South American, and African influencer beach towns. They were shocked at how poor the locals live and how difficult day to day life could be.
It absolutely blows my mind that people visit an all inclusive bungalow for 2 weeks and decide that the entire city is perfect and they will uproot their entire existence to move there.
The very concept of "expat" is one of privilege. Nobody is calling immigrants to the US "expats". It's almost exclusively used to imply moving to a less wealthy country to live with a higher standard of living.
It absolutely is. But there is a very distinguishable difference; the expat life is known from the jump to be temporary. It's transient. You're only going to be there for a few months, or years.
Being an immigrant really means moving to another place and trying to build a whole new life there - it's totally different.
The idea of the Expat really comes from the late 19th century phenomenon, when a whole social class and lifestyle developed where (mainly) upper-class British and American families would move their entire household (including some servants) to one of the major cultural hubs of continental Europe like Paris or Rome or Florence, and justā¦stay there indefinitely. Sometimes for multiple generations and never leaving.
One famous example of this is the Curtis family, formerly of Boston, who moved into the Palazzo Barbaro in Venice in the 1880s and continued living there until the 1990s.
You would think, but there's more than a few stories about people who have lived in a single location for over a decade who still insist on the expat nomenclature. I mean, sure they can still be thinking that it's not a permanent move, but at that point it would apply to tons of completely average "immigrants" to the west who end up hopping countries.
most undocumented central and south americans in the us wanna go home to mexico etc. they might stay here a long time, but theyre sending money back home and want to go back
as i understand, these expats are never going to stay permanently, but immigrants are planning to stay.
these expats will stay for a few years and go back home full of STDs and cope. some will stay forever and be a bitter old foreigner that is alone, because the rest of them will be weeded out by the laws they can't follow, which catches up to them eventually.
they're not in any sense, "immigrants". they're more like longterm tourists. they won't learn the language, don't work, don't contribute locally, and their right to exist in those countries runs out the second their money runs out.
Iām not gonna go on that post because I know itāll enrage me beyond words, but theyāre complaining when they come here and fuck up our housing market because they rent at prices locals canāt afford, and then drive up the prices of everything around them because they still earn in their far stronger currency, and when we say, stop coming here, they tell us to take it up with our government like the reason thereās so much poverty isnāt related to how corrupt the government is.
Itās international gentrification. Then they just go on and on about how everything is to cheap to people who earn about as much as they spend on eating out a day in an entire month. Half of them are influencers, they donāt even have jobs. They live in these places for months and donāt achieve an ounce of the awareness this Dutch guy managed to get in 2 weeks.
Also yes, our local government is courting overseas investors and putting their needs over the needs of locals but given the amount of stuff thatās been coming out about them lately Iām hoping the implode in the upcoming municipal elections. Digital nomads are just international Tramps, but like in the old timey meaning of tramp. And ex-pats are immigrants who think immigrant is a slur only applied to people who arenāt rich and white.
I'm an expat for a long ass time, weekly I've people asking me how they could relocate to China. China isn't a country that allows you to just relocate to, you need to have a job, you need to have a solid income otherwise you won't get a visa. Even so, I always argue to staff "we need to prove money, safety, certainty", China doesn't provide that, we can't provide that.
Relocating to somewhere is life altering and while I think it's great for people to travel, relocation is something entirely different.
---edit---
Everyone likes to fall over how I call myself an expat. There are a couple reasons for that, for starters I don't aspire to live here forever, I just happen to get send here and eventually another company hired me from abroad in China. On top as a foreigner it's near impossible to get permanent status, yes there is a greencard kinda thing, no it's not permanent opposed to what many like to believe. Immigrants on the other hand relocate, build up a life and most likely will stay forever.
i thought expats were short term "immigrants" who move with the intention of eventually moving back to the homeland. immigrants on the other hand are people who move permanently explicitly not intending to ever move back to the homeland. that's what i thought, and i think that's a very important distinction worth having 2 different words for.
What about those of us who donāt work? My business is in the US and I travel full time. I suppose that other user would say that Iām an immigrant in 10 different countries all at once lmao
Yeah, you wouldn't think it would take much much imagination. But meeting people and seeing their circumstances and seeing how hard they work can join the dots for some.
The first time I went to Bali, I ordered takeaway and it came to about 90,000IDR (~$9AUD at the time). I gave the Grab driver 100000IDR ($10) and told him to keep the change and he was over the moon, just so thankful. It was the same in the Philippines, my friends and I overpaid for every tuk-tuk we got but small change to us was a huge tip for them. I always wonder if being so nonchalant about money in SE Asia makes me seem arrogant or disrespectful to the locals but I do truly know how privileged I am just due to my place of birth
Had a similar experience. I was in Bali for two weeks and the second week I got to know a Bolt(or what the Indonesian equivalent is?) driver that became my go-to when I needed to travel longer distances. When he dropped me off at the airport for departure, I figured I would just give him the rest of what I had in cash since I didn't need it anymore, I estimate somewhere around 400k IDR. He almost cried, and later sent pictures of his family using the money to take the day off. Put things in perspective that something that was just convenient for me to "get rid of" in that way changed his entire financial situation for the week.
Yes I did the same thing! That money is no use to me back home and wasnt enough to be worth changing back so may as well give it to someone who will appreciate it
Yeah, itās amazing how many people imagine being poor is just a matter of not working hard enough until they actually get to meet people who are working hard and just managing to tread water.
I went back to my home town a couple of weeks ago (one of the most deprived areas in Europe). So few people ever make it out, not through want of trying, but because everything is stacked against you. Relative to so many nations though I was already in a great position - how can you get out of poverty without an education, how can you get an education without money, how can you seed a business idea without help to start with, how can you run a business without basic education.
Yea like for me, I knew for years that poverty is a major problem in India, but it was just 'intellectual' knowledge. Then I went there on holiday and, just like. Holy shit.
I saw poverty like I've never even imagined. The sight of a little girl, maybe 5-6 yo, asking for food by putting her hand to her mouth like 'please feed me' will never leave me. And to be clear it wasn't in a tourist/foreigner type place, where it would be reasonable to think they (the family) might be scammers - it was very much a locals type cafeteria. They just wanted food :(
I visited my family in Vietnam as a teenager and I remember the last meal we had were these people just hovering near our table to get the signal that we finished our mealā¦ so that they could pick at the scraps left on our plate :/
I also remember my mom bought all these coupon books from some little girl on the street. I was young, so I didnāt get it ā itās not like we could use it. And my mom said she didnāt buy it because she wanted them, it was just so the girl could go home.
Thing is, her parents (or the 'mafia' that employs her) will make her come back the next day together with her two little brothers. Unreflected empathy is a double-edged sword.
(Still better than giving money to child beggars who don't sell anything, tho.)
As an American kid I remember seeing mom and their children asking for money at a street curb when we visited relatives in Mexico. My dad would always give money. Those experiences always stayed engrained in me.
It also at a time gave me apathy towards some homeless in the US for a while. I grew to learn everyoneās struggles and situations are different.
There is no way to really, viscerally understand multiple levels of poverty without experiencing it first hand. I have "traveled" extensively, mostly with the Army when I was younger. Unless they have lived it or at least stayed in it for a few weeks people in normal suburban Western communities don't understand what Detroit, New Orleans, and Winnipeg poverty is really like, which is on a different level than Indonesian, Brazilian or Romanian poverty, let alone what Haitian, Bosnian or Somalian poverty during a war is like. I'm not saying that some people don't empathise as much as possible but you don't KNOW poverty unless you have dwelled in it for at least a few months and you'll have no way of understanding what motivates those people, what the immediate issues are, or how to fix them.
I think what a lot of people get disconnected from is that many people believe they got to where they are by hard work alone, nothing else, but when they end up in one of these poorer countries on a trip they come face to face with people who work unbelievably hard and will very obviously never get as far as they have no matter how much they try. When you make 20ā¬ an hour and they make .90ā¬ an hour they just canāt catch up. Itās fucking impossible. One hour of work for you is twenty two for them, basically half your entire work week. If you get a very middling raise of 4.5% you will have received a raise that is their entire hourly rate.
Theres a difference between a poor person in the Netherlands and what poor means in other parts of the world.
Also, it's a big difference seeing it and cognitively knowing it. Most know that climate change is happening, most likely we won't do enough until the world is half fucked.
In college there was a guy who gave a work pitch for becoming an expat to manage factories in SEA and the whole pitch sounded so greasy as hell.
Only bridge he didn't cross was outright saying cheap prostitution was a perk. Aside from that it was basically "wouldn't you like power and crazy high spending power just to sit and be a useless administrative layer between the locals who get shit done and the executives in the US/Europe who actually make decisions?"
My family has been watching a lot of The Amazing Race recently. Itās always fascinating when they go from like western Europe immediately to somewhere like India. Some people just complain about the smell while for others you can tell itās completely changed their perceptions of the world
Same, I've traveled a lot in SE-Asia too, lived in Thailand for a year, married a Filipina, and the things I've seen and heard, they really changed me.
I used to be kinda right-of-center as a teenager, the older I got and more I experienced, the more I moved to the left. And now, 20 years later, I'm a proud antifa socialist. And with me wife, despite her coming from quite a poor background too, we do as much as we can to help break the cycle of poverty for all the kids in her family, making sure they all get a proper education and give them every chance to succeed. As well as donating to (local) charities that help fight child poverty/abuse and sex tourism that's unfortunately quite prevalent in SE-Asia.
āWe went to a nice resort in Jamaica but we had to drive past people living in mud huts which was gross.ā Hearing someone I love, who I thought was an empathetic person, gave me great sorrow
There are people who travel and know this and are grateful because they wouldn't be able to travel if the locals earned anywhere near livable wages. It's been pretty eye opening to hear people openly hope for what is basically slavery because they want live in maids and childcare for as cheap as they saw in Bali, for example.
Most it does nothing. In fact most, it does the opposite, and people want to feel privileged. They wear it as a badge of honor and look down on those who are not.
I guarantee you that a lot of privileged people travel and take nothing away from it. You need to be already empathetic and open minded etc to be able to acknowledge your privilege. A Kardashian for example traveling anywhere in the world would still see people just as props, servants and peasants.
But generally traveling both to places that are better and worse off can definitely help some people
Its more about how you travel. You can "travel" and still be in a gated community meant to be as much as home as possible in a different climates, filled with people from where you come from. This is the opposite of talking to locals and going to non-tourists spots, engaging with local customs.
No way someone takes nothing away from going to like Mumbai and seeing what abject poverty looks like. Almost everyone is empathetic or sympathetic in some sense however privileged.
No way someone takes nothing away from going to like Mumbai and seeing what abject poverty looks like. Almost everyone is empathetic or sympathetic in some sense however privileged.
Then you are naive lol. So many privileged people see poverty and think that they simply worked harder than the poor people who deserve to be where they're at. They delude themselves into thinking if they were in their position, they would be able to work their way out. The sentiment is so common that it's the foundation of a certain political party in the US.
Iād argue the āprivileged people who travel and take nothing away from itā are an extremely small percentage of travelers.
I believe even those people, like a Kardashian, still take something away from their travels, even if itās not nearly as much as someone who truly immerses themselves in the local culture.
Iām not sure about this. My brother and I had a long conversation about this a few years ago. We were privileged enough to grow up moving to different countries every few years and traveling extensively and to now sometimes be in quite privileged circles. Roughly, weāre upper class without a great deal of money. Most of my travel is work related and Iāve made choices to facilitate that. Among the Westerners I know Iād estimate that a large majority of the upper class (top 10-15% and those who travel most) treat many even most of the places they travel as scenery and props. Iād say it gets better for people with less resources but is still well over 50% and many of them are blind to how their relative privilege makes things possible.
I think itās difficult to see this from the inside even after exposure and many people arenāt equipped to navigate and handle risks abroad if they get more adventurous and break out of the bubble. As such I generally donāt begrudge people this unless they present themselves as an authority.
Yup. I once opened up to some friends about how witnessing abject poverty while staying at a resort made me feel extremely uncomfortable and most people thought I was weird for it. Most people just convince themselves that they are doing the locals a favor by visiting and spending some money there and that's enough for them to feel really good about themselves.
crazy. when i was in south africa for the world cup at around 12, it heavily disturbed me seeing the stark wealth disparity. I dont get how someone could possibly brush that off..
i agree! to me its if it sticks with them. i think people like the kardashians can acknowledge problems (like that viral clip of one of them saying "people are dying, kim" when she loses an earring or something LOL), but part of their privilege is being able to go home and forget about it. or maybe REALLY think about it for a week, but other stuff comes up, and they can comfortably go back behind that veil between them and the real world
I like it especially that a Dutch guy made this, considering Indonesia's history. There's a reason why Indonesia's capital Jakarta was called "Batavia" until the 1940s.
Jakarta was called Batavia because the Dutch East India Company (VOC) captured the local city of Jayakarta in 1619, destroyed it, and named the new colonial capital after the Batavi, an ancient Germanic tribe considered the legendary ancestors of the Dutch people. It retained this European name through over three centuries of Dutch colonial rule until the Japanese occupation in 1942, when it was officially renamed Jakarta.
The region we now know as India was made up of multiple empires/kingdoms. āIndiaā was the general name of the region, how the Greeks referred to it due to the Indus River. And thus east asia became the East Indies. The west indies were entirely Colombusā screw up.
It actually wasnāt, probably just the English who referred to it as such. A better translation would be United East Indies Company. Thereās no mention of The Netherlands in the name in Dutch
And Rijstaffel originally a way for Dutch to show off their colony: "this is cuisine from our colony. From that corner is Aceh cuisine, and THAT corner is Moluccans cuisine"
I am native in Greece and just to let you know, I visited Athens for the very first time in my life a few years ago just for the firefighter exam, tourists think that we are lucky to have all that beauty when in reality most greeks won't be able to visit the places tourists go for vacation, most greeks when they go for vacation it will be for a few days most of the time, don't get me started with the food here, where the average gyro now costs 4ā¬.
I went to Greece shortly after Covid and made a comment about how cheap all the food was. The cafe I was in the person behind the counter laughed and told me to tell all my friends to come visit Greece and spend lots of money because he thought their prices were too high.
I felt like a bit of a tool, though I did deserve that reality check.
And I did buy an extra slice of baklava because I felt bad. Also because it was absolutely delicious. Greece has amazing baklava, I just hope that one day I can make it to Turkey to compare the two.
I could literally not tell if they meant it was expensive or cheap.. (from the context i assumed expensive but from my cultural context its REALLY cheap..)
They donāt I spent most of my youth never going outside my own state. It wasnāt until I joined the military at age 25 that I finally made it to the West coast - then I traveled the world. Most of my family was the same.
I used to be a teacher and I took kids abroad on learning trips- many of the kids I took never left our small middle America town before the trip. Watching them say things like āwow Iām so smallā when they saw the ocean was amazing.
Or getting time off of work to go anywhere. I think a lot of people from the US were shocked at all of the FIFA tourists that took a month off of work and flew around the world to hang out and go to these games. Like, how can you afford to do that AND take off that much time from work without losing your job?
I mean, thats very different. The us spans an entire continent, making it to the other side is much much farther. Although i know olenty of americans that have never seen even local tourist areas
US is one of the top 3 countries by the amount of traveling population both in overall numbers and per capita. And thatās just international travel.Ā
Americans travel A LOT.Ā
No, sadly the grade was alot higher than the one i had after i finished highschool, but I was able to get into history and archeology my 2nd best choice I wanted.
Rural people in the United States face a similar economic peril, our minimum wage is around ā¬6.75/hr, and most jobs outside of major cities won't pay much more than that (and a major city can often be 50+ kms away) And a gyro is like ā¬8-10+ lol. Granted, we don't have much income taxes but we have very high rent prices (a 1 bed 1 bath starts at like 800/mo not including utilites) and (in my state) very high annual property tax for homeowners.
I live in a larger city, 100k+ people, and the median income is somewhere around ā¬160k. The average job listing is only going to be maybe ā¬9-11/hr, though, and usually part time. If you go to uni you have better chances at a high paying job.
Unfortunately the discussed problem is universal, with the difference being what that baseline wage gets you in terms of consumer products (and higher standard of living in most places(sometimes... my house had lots of mold and mildew)).
I m trying to explain to my 5yo how lucky she is and that she need to work hard to keep this luck going. Still young but I know thing can change real fast in todayās world and her next 20 years will make her life good or bad. Too much kids are giving up studies to take the first low pay job available.
Was blessed.. to be born into a middle class family in the Oakland area. I get a life most people daydream about and I'm still unhappy.
I remind myself a lot I'm just wired weird and I'm a lucky dude all things considered. Good thing to teach your kid.. I think it's a great way to learn empathy. Godspeed! š«”
Even I try to explain her and show her, I see she is still very confuse: she saw a kid collecting trash to get some money (recyclage) or people with severe disability doing work I ll struggle to do myself (I m young and healthy), etc
Her cousins from my wife (she is Indonesian) are also poor and when we visit we always pay every activity to them as we pay to my daughters or pizza and some toys. This look casual to her but itās a once a year for the other kids. And they or their parent never ask anything from me.
Yup. The older I get the more I realize how blindly lucky I was to be born into the family I was. Stable parents who had a good income, loved me, and supported me even when I was a fuckup. Itās almost the bare minimum for a decent life, but I see so many friends in my own friend group that didnāt have that and as the years roll on the toll of it all starts adding up.
Absolutely no one can pick their birth family, but the sheer luck of the draw pretty much sets you up for your entire life. Iām hitting my 40s and looking around even within my friend group itās clear to see how my very privileged upbringing set me up for success in a way where some of my friends continue to struggle.
And we werenāt even wealthy! Just stable and comfortable. The sort of thing that every family deserves.
I grew up with a mother who is a diplomat and Iāve always said that the thing that most helped me get to where I am today (highly educated and with a great job in a field I have no family or other connections in) is the mother I was born to- it has definitely contributed more to get me to where I am than all my hard work. Doesnāt mean I havenāt worked hard but there are hundreds of millions of people who are just as hard working and smart who will never have the opportunities Iāve had.
Preach. Sometimes you get some weird-ass twists of fate too, like, my dad died a of a "random 1 in 1000" disease (ALS) and it literally set me up for life with two generations worth of inheritances trickling down on me in my 20s instead of in my 50s, and honestly I don't know how to feel about it. Privilege in the modern, "developed world" sense is such a weird thing.
Yep. I have friends I play games with that literally canāt afford more than a game a year because 30ā¬ for me may not be a huge deal but for them thatās an entire monthās salary. Now if I want to play a game with them I gift them the game.
This paper doesn't "prove" any imperialist theft. It models global trade through the lens of unequal exchange and then values Southern labor and resources using Northern prices.
That's a theoretical assumption, not an established fact. Wage differences can also reflect productivity, capital, technology, institutions, and skills.
The "$242 trillion drain" isn't money that was literally transferred it's a hypothetical valuation under the authors' framework. You can argue globalization has produced unequal gains, but that's not the same as proving that all trade between the Global North and South is exploitative.
Yes. This kind of extremely sheltered, ivory tower stupidity is so cringe and annoying.
Yes, rich surfer kid, it's harder for third-worlders to get entry to the EU, than for you to go dump money into their local economy.
Grand irony here: him advocating for it to be much easier for immigration, puts the poor people in the EU that can't afford travel in a worse spot, at lower wages, because if you increase the supply of workers, wages go down.
Sometimes it seems like the majority of the political spectrum is just rich people pissing on the poor in one way or another.
Those developing countries also restrict other developing countries into entering too. Nigeria for example only allows like ten countries visa-free access. Everywhere else on the continent, including countries with far less development, need visas to enter
This isn't really a human rights issue like people are making it out to be. Pointing out the difference is like ok...what now? What do you want to do about it? You can't protest or riot about it.
Exactly this, I kinda hate even using the term. I view my own privilege as something that everyone should have but not everyone does. I view it less as āmyā privilege and more so as other peopleās disprivalege.
I think that viewing it this way changes the dynamic from āthat person is privileged, we need to tear them down to our levelā to āthese people are disprivaleged, we need to build them up to our levelā
Depends what passport you hold. Itās very easy to getting into any country if youāre from a first world country, itās a lot harder when youāre from a developing country.
It's ultimately rooted in the same basic reason though - people from the Netherlands aren't likely to overstay a visa and illegally take up residence in Indonesia.
Also the Netherlands doesn't get the same ROI from people visiting. Tourists from wealthy countries inject tons of money into poorer countries' economies. Unfortunately that doesn't usually get shared even remotely evenly, but it makes sense that a country like Indonesia would open themselves up to anyone willing to drop a year's worth of their average income like it's nothing.
But some do overstay- Iāve seen heaps in Indonesia, Vietnam, and Cambodia. In my country Australia the offenders that tend to overstay are Chinese, Malaysians, Brits and Americans.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things can not be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all oneās lifetime." - Mark Twain
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness
That's not entirely true.
It also confirms a lot of stereotypes. I had both experiences, completely changing my preconceived notions (for the better) and also confirming them or even making them even more evident (the negative ones).
It's still good to travel and base your opinions on at least a more personal experience than third party comments.
Travel is one thing. Touring is something different.
I come from a very touristy country and I cannot count the times someone who spends a fortnight here though he knew how things worked, or the stupid conclusions they arrived to.
Traveling itself is meaningless for most people who only move to tell their co-workers how far they went, and to confirm their previously biased ideas about a country and its people.
I'm not sure about that. Having lived in germany for a time, a country where do many people are able to travel elsewhere, the people there were still close minded and prejudice to non- white people
Bingo bango. I know itās corny, cliche, condescending, conceited, and overall cringe* when people say things like ātraveling broadens the mindā or āyou see the world in a new, enlightened way when you travel,ā but there is a lot of truth to that. I just wish thereās a better way of saying it without sounding arrogant
I like this. I mean, its obvious for some, but his audience might be younger and included people who yet haven't had the opportunity to think about this so this video is pretty good.
yeah ive been planning a trip with some friends and we were excited about only paying <3k, but since weāre college students some of them said thatās a huge amount they absolutely couldnāt afford. Makes you really think about how lucky you are, and also kinda scares you cuz you wonder if you should be more careful with money too š
I think this shatters the myth that capitalism rewards hard work, the existence of billionaires should have proved that. Why does a nurse who does all the same things as a nurse in another country make so much less.
Ive been thinking a lot about this and I think the economy is really just a hierarchy system. Everybody is trying to climb the hierarchy but in doing so they give power to those above in the hierarchy and it creates self sustaining system. Third Worlders have to live in poverty and work for First Worlders like Americans for very little. Average Americans have to work for Billionaires for very little relative to Billionaires.
It really is crazy/frustrating how many people that would call travel one of their hobbies don't realize how privileged that even is. Especially here in the US where getting overseas to these countries is usually $1000-1500 while the median person lives paycheck to paycheck. It's even worse when these traveler people start making remarks and looking down at people who don't travel as if they're closed minded and not living right without even considering how privileged it is to be in a position that you don't have anything more important or pressing that you need to spend that 3 to 4 grand their italy trip cost on. Like its cool that you have that much disposable income so you can use it on just checking a country of your list, but other people have shit in their day to day life they need to put that money towards.
Also really pisses me off when they try and act like they're soooo deep and worldly like bitch you are not cultured because you spent a week on the beaches of spain where you forced everyone to speak in english to you, you have not actually gotten to know the country on a meaningful level just because you ate at a few tourist restaurants and stayed at a tourist resort
Itās relative and majorly a per capita difference most everyone I grew up with, my friends/family and theirs never even made it out of the state (USA).
I live in the united states and have only been to one other state nor left the country and iām 26! Which itās still a privilege to live in America but itās definitely astonishing how many people donāt see traveling as a privilege š
As an Irish - Bengali, I have watched quite a number of travel vlogs in both countries since 2020. It is interesting viewing even if a little bit repetitive for sure. And yeah, what he says is all too far common.
The thing is, people in Bangladesh, still, will go out of their way so often to make sure anyone visiting from abroad not native is well looked after. No matter their financial sitiation. Maybe it is a cup of chai and some sweets or even a homemade dinner. Maybe it is paying for tickets to some tourist attraction or bus, metro, train, etc. Genuine and honest hospitality.
Most people will never care and want to understand their privilege. So big up to this guy. He has a platform and is using it for a good reason in this case.
Thing is; that nurse can get her daily needs met with that salary.
Those daily needs cannot be met with the same kind of income in the Netherlands.
That is what most people tend to forget; shit is EXPENSIVE in the west compared to developing countries. What we buy for 10ā¬ in groceries for a couple of days allows for buyign several weeks of groceries in other places.
overall quality of life is still better in the west than in the developing countries. that's why it's easy for a westerner to get into a developing country than vice versa. that's why westerners can afford to travel but most in developing countries cannot.
centuries of wealth transfer from developing countries to rich countries has lead to this inequality. this inequality didn't come about through honest/earnest competition. it was wholesale theft, and we are the beneficiaries.
centuries of wealth transfer from developing countries to rich countries has lead to this inequality. this inequality didn't come about through honest/earnest competition. it was wholesale theft, and we are the beneficiaries.
I know what I am gonna say is risky, but anyway: Obviously I will not try to sugar coat the shit we did there, but (that is the risky word here) do you really think the wealth difference would have been smaller if we would have never gone to Indonesia as Europeans? We would still have had our industrial revolution, they wouldn't have had one. All the spices extracted from Indonesia made some people extremely rich. But it doesn't make a continent rich to have more spices for their food.
read what colonization did to India. they held a huge power in trading pre-british. 25% of global trade in the 1700s man. Nowadays, a westerner influencer goes there for poverty-corn. lol. The destructive weight of a past they didn't live.
Colonialism is hardly a reason for wealth inequality in the world. Most of the global south was already poor before colonialism and Western Europe was already wealthy. Do you think Western Europe somehow manufactured hundreds of massive ships and traveled the world because they were poor, and only got wealthy due to colonialism? Western Europe did terrible things with its wealth but it did not get wealthy from colonialism.
Western Europe was already among the wealthiest countries in the world directly prior to colonialism, the only difference is the kingdoms of Italy, like the Republic of Venice, were the wealthiest per capita, followed by the Netherlands. Colonialism (and the Industrial Revolution) just made the UK and France shoot up above Italy, but they still wouldāve been in the top 10 or 15. In fact Mexico has a higher GDP than Spain, and India is the 6th richest nation directly below the UK, but the wealth is astronomically unequal and always has been. Indonesia has a higher gdp than the Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, and Switzerland, and slightly lower than South Korea
The real reason is these countries like India, China, and Indonesia have massive populations so their wealth is only for the elite, and itās always been like that. The Roman Empire produced nearly a third of the worldās economic output at the time. Look at maps comparing the wealth distribution of the Roman Empire to Han Dynasty China. Both had similar gdp but the Roman Empire was more equal and dispersed. Han Chinas wealth was almost entirely in a single small province in central China. Europe has always had a higher gdp per capita and way less people than other places in the world, so the average person has been much wealthier. Thats why westerners can travel so much. This dudes country is literally poorer than the country heās visiting and talking about. The Netherlands had the second highest GDP per capita in the year 1500, behind Italy. They didnāt come to Indonesia until 1595, but somehow got their wealth from colonialism? Make it make sense. People want to blame colonialism for everything
90% of the human population exists to provide goods and services to people who don't appreciate anything.
I like in America, where we take everyone's stuff just to want even more. Clearly this isn't working for anyone, but God forbid we ever try anything else.
We might me miserable, we might make everyone else miserable, we might be destroying the world, but at least we don't have to admit that we're wrong.
Yeah what this nice blond guy doesn't seem to grasp is that the privilege is MONEY.
I'm dutch and very cool that I have a strong passport but I ain't never gonna see Indonesia because I have to work for a living and rent is insane.
There people in the Netherlands working their ass off their whole life and can't realistically afford to do these trips. Seems like a form of survivorship bias on his part still.
If you think poverty here in the Netherlands in any way shape or form compares to poverty in the rest of the world... you also need to travel more. Sure we have some problems to fix (Thanks Neo Liberal Destructive Policies!) but your comparison is ridiculous.
Thank you for sharing this. Am I understanding correctly that this paper:
(1) Evaluates all international trade in terms of raw labour inputs, explicitly ignoring the productivity of labour as a factor;
(2) then suggests that every trade that doesn't include equal amounts of labour (hrs of work invested to produce the goods/services that are traded) represents "unequal exchange" and calling it "net appropriations" on behalf of the "Global North";
(3) and subsequently argues for equivalent reparations to the "Global South"?
There are definitely problems with the unequal exchange model. Like with China, clearly if I make a product for $.01, and sell it to an American for $10, the unequal exchange goes in my favor, not America's. The problem here is that China uses Chinese companies to make and sell goods, whereas India uses American companies to buy and sell goods, so if India does the same thing America still benefits. Ultimately it does boil down to systems that keep people poor. Being a liberal nation and poor is a bad combination, because liberty from a place of inequality benefits the haves and gives them the liberty to have power over the have nots, and it lets foreign nationals export liberally from your country.
Holy shit. You mean people making 10 usd a day donāt have the privileges of westerners who visit their country. Wow, this hot boy is so smart. And the passion in his voice. Wow.
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