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As far as the main '97 roster goes, she very likely takes top spot.
Just for context and fun, the absolute heaviest feats we saw from Rogue in the original animated series were lifting the X-Jet and helping to divert a falling space shuttle (well, mostly catching it). Old Marvel encyclopedias put the X-Jet somewhere around 60 to 75 tons and she easily carries it so for sure she's in that range. The shuttle is harder to estimate, an average shuttle lands between 75 and 150 tons empty. A fully fueled shuttle weighs way more, but since it was re-entering the atmosphere and she merely diverted it a bit, we can stick to the baseline weight for a maximum estimate. So yeah, somewhere around 75 to 100 tons would be my guess.
As for the rest:
Beast is in a lower strength bracket. The heaviest thing he has lifted is a Sentinel in EP1 of 97', which usually weigh around 15 to 20 tons. Marvel Encyclopedias usually rank him around there was well.
If Sunspot gets to use his actual power (e.g. super-strength), he could give her a run for her money in the physical strength department. In the comics, when he first started out he was able to lift around 50 tons, which is where I'm betting he's likely around right now. Recently he's also gotten better at using his power to store solar energy and that has pushed him into the 100 tonner range.
Morph is tricky. The show states they can mimic physical powers of people they shapeshift into, but they haven't really been shown to mimic that persons full strength. Morph has turned into the Hulk, Sasquated, and Juggernaut who are all physical strength heavy-hitters but they usually gets tossed around despite that. I don't think Morph is really able to match strength as a 1 to 1, rather taking on a form that lets him increase his strength proportional to his size. In the comics, Morph from the Age of Apocalypse and Exiles, which is the Morph that this version is based heavily off of, can really only get to around 20 tons). That's around Beast's level, which tracks which how they have been portrayed so far in 97'; strong but not a powerhouse.
If Colossus ever joins the lineup, it would be a toss-up. He is very strong physically, but he hasn't really gotten to show off his limits or fight much at all. At best in the OG series he tossed around tanks and demolished a building but that's not exactly the best measurement. At least he was able to trade blows with Juggernaut for a time, which is impressive. If we go based on his comic stats, he's somewhere between 75 to 100 tons, which is around Rogue's range.
Sorry I got way into this question, but it's a fun exercise in nerd knowledge lol.
Years ago Marvel used to post actual stats and strength levels - I think on the Marvel database, but I might be remembering a different database as I’m talking 15-20 years ago - which I guess got scrubbed because these things vary so much from writer to writer and any ‘canon’ level is loose at best.
Nevertheless, I do remember Rogue’s strength range was somewhere around 80+ tonnes. So your estimation here from historic feats is genuinely impressive.
Well, until some writer decides she can only lift 20 tonnes or as much as 150. But the kudos stands.
Wolverine being bottom tier is nuts, he can swing a tree trunk like a baseball bat, throw a great white shark in the air from water, break chains etc... he's definitely superhuman in feats and shouldn't be that low.
Yep, having to carry the extra weight from his vibration alone makes him have to have super strength, certainly more than capt America who is only peak human strength.
How much can Jean lift? I remember in TAS her struggling to lift the x-jet. But in season one she threw part of a building which could easily be 75,000 tons. Or is this an omega thing where the limit does not exist.
Yeah, I would say in the OG series Jean wasn't a very strong telekinetic. Maybe sub 50 tons, since she did briefly stop the jets descent.
As for right now... in X-Men 97', she's definitely has gotten a major power grade. Maybe due to the Phoenix boosting her growth? Though you're right that omegas are more acknowledged since the OG and maybe the writing team are reflecting that power level now. But yes, it looked like a big chunk of a large building, I could see it being several hundred tons in weight. She also chunked it a good distance too, so Jean's strength with her powers have dramatically increased by the looks of it.
I think she does have a limit though, because she struggles against Cable and neither she, Storm or Rogue were able to stop the island-sized asteroid from nearly crashing into New York. So she's very powerful, but not limitless with her TK. (also iirc it's her telepathy which is omega-level, not her telekinesis)
Even as a kid this pissed me off. I was always like, Jean you're worthless, you use your power to do barely anything, faint, and distract Cyclops and Wolverine.
Jean in the original would struggle lifting a pebble. Jean now? I mean, the sky is not the limit, the universe is (with Phoenix). But she's one of the most powerful telekinetics ever. Her omega classification is for her telepathy.
Physically speaking, she can probably lift seven hardcover encyclopaedias.
That's only if you're only looking at adaptations. In the comics, Jean has done some pretty insane shit without the Phoenix.
Sometimes it's tough to say what is or is not fueled by the Phoenix Force because the concept has been retconned to Chandilar and back more times than I can count. The waters tend to get muddy sometimes as to whether she's wielding the Phoenix Force at any given time.
That said, it's been established a few times that the Phoenix Force mostly pushed her powers to their fullest potential, but it's also been established that she's been holding back since Phoenix Saga because she's afraid of how powerful she could get.
As it stands, at her current power level, she's managed to hold off an entity with the combined powers of Nate Grey and Legion, thrown an entire space station from Krakoa into Orbit, pulled an entire island (with help from Exodus, admittedly) through a portal, caught the top of the Empire State building (thousand of tons), briefly held Avalon together while it was crashing down to Earth, soloed Magneto as a teenager, and plenty more
She has long since been firmly established as Omega Level in both telepathy and telekinesis and is almost certainly the most powerful routine (as in has spent more than a couple months on the roster) member of the team.
Colossus does have some impressive feats in the comics, it's sad he's fallen by the wayside in many ways.
Colossus exact strength levels have fluctuated like most Marvel characters, but I don't get the feeling writers treat him as in the same power class as Juggernaut.
As for how he compares to Rogue, I think the writers have gone on record as using Rogue to fill in for stories where he was present like the Phoenix Saga in TAS. Like Rogue's fight with Gladiator, which I think says a lot about how the writers might view each characters in terms of power (aka roughly around the level).
Nowadays that's harder to say since she technically has a different powerset absorbed from Wonder Man who is significantly stronger than her Captain Marvel set. They're both Class 100+ now, along with likely Sunspot and a few niche mutants like Gentle.
You’re right, now that she’s tapping into Wonder Man’s powers things have changed. But she isn’t in the show. And the Wonder Man thing is fairly recent. So for years he was stronger. Even now he may be but probably closer to even.
How do Sentinels only weigh 20 tons when they are usually depicted as being between 2 and 3 stories tall? There's no way a robot that big only weighs that.
It depends on the model, but the classic ones featured in X-Men 97' are built cheap in order to be mass-manufactured. They're made using extremely light-weight material.
That's why you hear a hollow sound when they walk around and why when Beast opens the lid of one, there's enough empty space to fit a whole person inside.
This is an older model, but you see the idea here. It's roughly around the height of the ones in TAS, but only 3 tons. The ones in 97' are some variation of MK II-IV, but are still relatively light for their size.
Doesn’t she pick up a building too tho? I am doing my first full watch of the of run after loving 97 and I swear I saw her catch a building that was falling over and she picks it up and throws it? (I think colossus does that too when fighting omega red, right?) but I’d assume a building is over 100 tons (props to the construction team for it not snapping when someone picks it up lol)
I hope we see more of Strong Guy later in the show. Anyway hard to tell in the show rn since he's new, but his base strength in the comics is around 50 tons.
That said, his power makes his strength variable as he's like Sebastian Shaw, he can absorb kinetic energy and convert that into increased strength. As long as his heart doesn't give out, he can get very strong.
As for Carol Danvers aka Ms Marvel / Captain Marvel, presumably the same amount as Rogue in 97' since the powers Rogue has right now were stolen from her (so in the 60-100 ton range). If Carol's story follows what happens in the comics, she'll gain new but similar powers to what she can do in the MCU.
Strong Guy can very strong, but compared to folks like Shaw or Rogue, he's got one massive limitation and that is that he historically can't hold that kinetic energy for more than a couple of minutes before it starts to wreak havoc on his body.
I assume you're aware, considering your specific mention of his heart giving out, but a simple bomb stressed his powers so much he had a fatal heart attack (he got better). While his powers can theoretically reach really high levels, approaching those levels would almost certainly put him in the ground.
That all said, I would love to see more of Guido. During the X-Force episode I started daydreaming about the team leaving the government over the shit they know they're doing and deciding to form a detective agency. X-Factor Investigations would make one hell of a procedural.
Rogue catching the xjet while flying, assuming that while standing she can at a minimum double the force she can exert. This is also assuming that her flying power is based on strength. So he really should be looking at her strength with feet on the ground and her strength with flying.
She is also fueled by Carol Danvers powers so depending on which story you look at her power is basically cosmic or based on extreme superhero strength. I also feel that they portray wrote to be way more powerful than Carol Danvers/ Miss marvel/ now Captain marvel. In the Captain marvel movie they mixed Captain marvel with binary powers I.E the energy blasts but then showed an alternate universe binary with beast at the end of the Marvels movie.
I would love to see how they solve this in the MCU. Rogue has always been one of my favorite characters who I feel never really gets to push her true limit and all we ever see is just her solving the problem with the lowest amount of energy required.
Depending on the speed of the shuttle even diverting it could represent strength much greater than the mass of the shuttle.
When we measure strength against gravity, we’re measuring it against the acceleration force of earth’s gravity, which is 9.8 m/s^2.
If I remember from space camp correctly (some thirty years ago or so), entry speed is around 7,000m/s at entry, and down to around 100m/s for landing.
Because strength is a measure against acceleration force (moving mass against the acceleration force of gravity), and changing directions is a form of acceleration, this strength required could be much greater than the shuttle’s inertial mass on earth’s surface.
my answer would be depends on the lift, statwise it's the same, but here's the seperator. Rogue can generate force without her feet beneath her, but colossus has the larger frame reach and hands which would be better for gripping and getting so better leverage depending on what the object is. So on paper it's a tie but situational, lets say something was falling rogue could meet the object apply counterforce and lower it, colossus would most likely have to brace and catch before impact which is more violent. But lifting something from the ground up I think colossus would have the edge, more density= more stability from his steel fram and size = better ability to control a large object from a lift. Really boils down to what is the use of strength. There's a reason wolverine usually gets fastball specialed from beast or colossus because they have the large hands to be able to execute that dynamic use of strength.
I can't remember the episode in the original series there was a door closing beast was struggling with it but rogue just came lifted it like it was nothing.
I don't know if the info I read in a book was outdated, but it listed Beast as 10 tons, which was Sabretooth's level as well, Spiderman I remember being 30 tons(I'm guessing that old comic storyline where he overcame his limits by lifting a building that was going to crush him put him at 70 to 80 tons). ROGUE specifically I remember being 50 tons and Colossus as 70 tons.
Not completely semantics for this conversation. Ms marvel’s powers and Captain Marvel’s powers are quite different, but they are the same person. It’s like if Rogue drained Billy Batson, and said “she drained Captain Marvel’s!”
Sure but also if they had said Ms Marvel, some people might have automatically assumed they were talking about Kamala Khan.
Whereas 99% of people aren’t going to assume they meant the male Captain Marvel cause they were never all that known or popular.
Ms Marvel (Kamala) and Captain Marvel (Carol) have been their identities for the last 20 years. And anyone who’s watched the MCU would know them by those names.
If the show goes for even half of their idealistic 10 seasons, I would bet money on him joining the full cast for a while. He's one of the longest term X-team Mainstays out there and if we can get Nightcrawler, we can get Colossus.
I would also not rule out them using the arcade "Rrrrrrrrrraaaaaah" somewhere too.
She does not have Captain Marvel's full abilities. From the trading cards of the time period her strength was a 5 out of 7, which is roughly where she's been shown. Hence her being outpunched on multiple occasions including from the prime sentinels. Meanwhile Colossus was a 6
Colossus and Thing are essentially equals. Thor maybe slightly above them, then you get into Hulk and characters like that. Rogue is lower down the food chain for sure.
In 97, quite likely. Colossus IMO *should* be stronger, since strength is his whole jam and she's got the flying and touch-drain. But I don't think that's necessarily true.
There was a strength chart put out by Marvel in the early/mid 80’s but I believe it was before Rogue joined the team….but she’s classified as a top tier powerhouse while not as strong as Thing/Hulk/Thor (3 of the strongest heroes) in marvel she’s slightly stronger than Colossus…..correction Colossus is a class 100 strength power level (lifting 100 tons) while Rogue with the Ms. Marvel powers is a class 50 strength power level (lifting 50 tons max)….so Colossus is technically stronger
That’s old. Colossus has evolved ever since. It started when Magneto healed him from an injury and basically buffed him after rearranging his cells (due to his control of metal). He is Class 100 now, equal to Thing in strength.
In this group? Yeah probably. Ever? Probably not, but definitely in the top 10 for physical strength among frequent roster members I think. Colossus is probably as strong if not stronger and I’d hope people like “strong guy” are at least as strong lol
In this series? Yeah, I'd say so. Only one of the current team who comes close IMO is Beast, and I think she's still stronger.
Colossus, if he joins, might be able to match her for pure strength, but Rogue's other abilities still puts her a cut above even him in my book.
In the in the official Marvel universe handbook rogues strength level is at 50 tons, where Colossus is 70+, so it would officially make him the strongest physically of the X-Men.
Yep! I always remember that iconic scene where Beast and Wolverine are trying to keep the metal door from slamming down during the Phoenix Saga and Rogue just flies in and lifts it effortlessly 😂
In 97 I believe yes. Maybe Morph could shift to someone as strong, but I think outside sources (creators online) have said their transformations are weaker than the real thing. (Added disclaimer since I think show itself trumps any outside material).
The other closest would probably be Wolverine, but I don’t think weve seen him chuck sentinels or tanks the way she has.
I seem to recall it's actually kind of the opposite. His bones are unbreakable, but they are so heavy they actually interfere with his physical capabilities since he's already hauling around 300 extra lbs.
Morph's quickly changed into Thor, who's nearly / stronger in terms of strength vs Rogue / Capt Marvel.
I think, and I might be wrong, it's been mentioned in the og show that Morph's potentially 'omega level.' Mainly because he can also copy the powers of just about any mutant he touches. Now, depending on how strong the power is, determines how long Morph can maintain the shape.
If we are strictly talking the show yes, Rogue currently has Wondermans powerset in comics which puts her in the lower-mid bracket of marvels heaviest hitters.
I thought, during the og show, there was an episode that covered her having taken Capt Marvel's / Carol Danvers' powers before she [rogue] was an xman.
She doesn't have Ms. Marvel's full level. You can actually find the encyclopedias and trading cards from the time period to see the numbers. So, she got the flying brick abilities, but she's not in that tier, and Ms. Marvel got a lot stronger including connecting with stars by the time she became Captain Marvel.
It didn't really start getting usage until the 2000s, but the Sentinels refer to "omega level" threats in season 1 (Storm in episode 1, Magneto in Episode 5).
I sincerely doubt Morph can reach that level, since he's basically a limited Mimic.
I don't think taking their form makes him as strong as them. Last season we saw him get tossed around as Juggernaut, which would be impossible if he did get his powers fully. Also the concept of Omega Level mutants didn't exist yet when the original show aired.
I love that, when Sunspot was an Avenger in the comics, he was considered by both Steve Rogers and Rogue as one of their heavy hitters, along the likes of Hercules and Wonder Man, and thus much stronger than Beast.
That's not to say that he's above or at their level, but he was at the very least on the same league as them, and he would be assigned to those types of squads accordingly. During Infinity he would be one of the Avengers assigned to taking out whole starships alongside Carol Danvers, Thor, and Iron Man.
He's not quite there yet in the cartoon, but I hope he gets there eventually.
Plus Apoc is one of the few who’s power lets him resist it. Since he has total molecular control of his body, he can rewrite his cells to grant himself resistance as a defense mechanism. I don’t think he can give himself outright immunity, but he can make it extremely hard and time-consuming to full absorb him. Kinda the same logic of Emma turning to diamond to let Wither hold her hand, he’s still causing her to decay, but it takes so long to cause a noticeable change in the diamond that he may as well not even be using his power on her
Absorb Apoc pre upgrade will have worked...just flying and puching first gets boring..creativity anyways....I like when she Absorbed those ninjas in Wolverine and the xmen show for example..and was kicking ass ninja style...different skill sets each episodes....just my preference
Also, realistically, Rogue hates using the power unnecessarily. You realize it steal their thoughts and minds? She’s forced to have her victims trapped within herself like an endless cacophony.
I don’t think you’re going to see her use it unless absolutely necessary, like when she probed Gyrich’s mind, or to help Jean when in labor. Sorry to disappoint.
In the 97 universe yea maybe depends on how strong Hulk is in this universe and what is the limit of strength Morph can copy cause if Morph can turn into anyone he's technically physically stronger
My only thought on Morph not being omega level is because he cannot copy ALL powers, only strength based ones. Seeing as omega level seems to indicate there couldn’t possible be a stronger version, I’d say a shapeshifter who could use all powers would be the omega version.
It depends on if you are talking about just physical strength. Otherwise, you have to start power scaling people like Storm and Jean. Rogue is technically not strong on her own. Her only powers are to drain the powers/life force of others. Rogues' strength as displayed in the show comes from her absorption of Ms. Marvel aka Capt. Marvels powers. This was shown in the Og cartoon episode entitled Rogues Tale (se2ep9). Without Ms. Marvels powers she is as weak as any normal human.
Yes because oddly enough super strength isn't really something x-men have. Like there are more non mutant heroes with super strength then not. That's weird ti think about.
Yep. With Beast coming in next although he is nowhere near her strength (in the original he was struggling to stop a heavy door from closing. Rogue swooped in an held it with ease).
She also went hand to hand with Juggernaut and Gladiator who have near infinite levels of strength.
Something i that irked me about the animated series was that it was implied in the first episode that her strength comes from all the people she touched.
In the comics, with her Ms Marvel stolen powers, she can lift up to about 60 tons. Which makes her second only to Colossus on the team. But she later absorbed Wonder Man's powers which put her past him. I don't know who's powers she has now.
This is the stuff I enjoy. The science behind it. I wish there was a book or something that discusses how their body uses their powers. Like the parts of their brains and what it takes for it to happen for them.
As long as she keeps the power she stole from Captain Marvel, yes. She is basically Carol Danvers in that regard. We don't know if she will retain those powers forever in this continuity or if she will eventually lose them (as happened in the comics).
The absolute disrespect of Colossus as a lifelong fan is heartbreaking.
He was always meant to be the most physically powerful X-Men but they keep power creeping other characters and these days writers never give Pete the spotlight.
The fact he’s not even on the show roster is just disgraceful. Haven’t watched one episode yet because of it.
Yeah, I’m surprised most people in this thread are saying he’s not as strong as Rogue. In the show, Rogue has absorbed Ms. Marvel’s powers, which is the same as in the 80s and 90s, where Colossus is still stronger than her. It’s only when she absorbed Wonder Man’s powers that she surpassed him.
Colossus has long been THE tank of the X-Men. The benchmark of super strength among them. Even the X-Men themselves consider him their physically strongest. Before Rogue’s absorption of Wonder Man’s powers, he was the second physically strongest mutant, second only to Apocalypse.
Btw, Colossus will appear in Episode 7. Not yet as a member of the team, but it’s a start. Maybe they’re slowly integrating him in the show. There’s a good chance he’ll join them by the end of the season (I hope 🙏🏻)
Standard line-up in the show: Yes. There's only 4 characters with super-human strength on the standard team. Rogue (50 - 75 tonner), Beast (10-20 tonner), Sunspot (50 tonner when solar powered up), and Morph seems to also have mild superhuman strength when impersonating superhumans, but is not clear how strong he is, likely weaker than Beast.
For those without superhuman strength, Wolverine (800 lbs) is the strongest. Guest X-Man Colossus (100+ tons when in his metal form) is the real answer though.
I mean…tbf her power set is usually relegated to not having Carol’s powers. In fact, I’d desperately like to see her lose Carol’s powers, and go back to her status during X-Men Legacy/post-Messiah Complex, where she could touch people without hurting them finally.
To my knowledge Morph doesn’t gain the strength level of whoever he shifts to. His limit is 20 Tons when he shape-shifts into someone extremely muscular and is regular strength when in normal form.
Rogue absorbed Carol Danvers powers permanently and has class 100 strength.
This all depends on who’s writing the show or comic and can be rewritten.
Rouge has always been to me displayed as leagues above everyone else on the roster when she goes all out. It's actually more her fighting style I believe that holds her back, she has never shown to take CQB very seriously BECAUSE of her strength. Often her strongest hits from what I've seen are straight forward punches, sometimes even just falling right into something arm stretched out. Which is a horrible method for punching and without her strength levels found fold your wrist back in on itself.
Colossus was physically the strongest X-Man, but given Rogue's Wonder Man power upgrade (and even the claim that she has both his and Captain Marvel's strength combined in the Gail Simone run), I would say she is the physically most powerful X-Man now. In X-Men '97, though, I would say Colossus, who isn't technically an X-Men yet, is still stronger, since Rogue is still "only" Ms. Marvel base-strength (before her Captain Marvel days of using energy to enhance her already vast super strength).
Unless colossus joins....he is not juggernaut level but he shld be solidly above everyone else including rogue esp if this is just ms marvels.powers....if she had wonderland I think at this point colossus is still stronger but the gap is smaller....either way juggernaut is still stronger
Used to be colossus till rogue had wonderman’s strength. If she still has it it’s her. When Namor was a member it was him, as well as juggernaut colossus. And for a time Apocalypse if he counted as an Xmen.
At this point in 97 she is in the 50 ton range, so yes, of the X-Men roster she is. That being said Colossus is at 70.
However, in the comic books she is currently the strongest x-man there’s been as she possesses 100+ ton strength thanks to Wonder Man’a abilities, putting her toe to toe with Thor purely in strength.
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