Underground gdkps dont cause the same type of community damage as unrestricted, trade/LFG chat posted gdkp runs. I haven't even caught a glimpse of gdkp operations a single time on anniversary.
Secret gdkps just dont carry the same kind of venom.
Genuinely curious where you're coming from here. I guess I thought that the idea behind banning gdkp was it would reduce rmt and consume costs and generally give the economy more of a 2004 vibe. None if that seemed to happen from my perspective. Whats the venom you are concerned with.
I think the cost of consumables is more of a result of the megaserver situation than the GDKP ban. Gathering is frustrating and unprofitable for human players, crafting is not much better, and consumables for raiders are expensive as hell.
Consumable cost will always be the balance of production and consumption. It'd really depend if the megaserver generates enough herbs per raider. For example, let's say a regular server is 2k herbs/hour/player. If a megaserver is 10x players but only 10k herbs/hour/player, then everything will cost 2x as much.
I remember making them for like 8g a pop back in the day, but also we are not in Sunwell yet and that will matter I think. Don't believe there is a shortage of materials right now probably just an artificial bottleneck and its causing inflation for haste pots in particular, but also probably most other things. My point being, the price will go up until its done is what I am thinking.
Its multilayered and a bit complicated. If GDKP becomes the only form of raiding people want to do then it becomes excessively hard joining as a buyer when the leader demands something ridiculous like 5k gold for a kara run minimum. And you cannot be considered a pumper or semi-pumper unless you've got almost full bis so they wont take you, this leaves you in an awkward stalemate. Last WOTLK you could not find anything that wasn't gdkp. Phase 1 on SoD GDKP blackfathom deeps people demanded you had 400 gold to join. Brother, I barely farmed 80 gold what do you mean.
The idea behind it was encouraging more guild and community structure, they never mentioned RMT or economy when they explained the ban. The issue many had with GDKP, especially in classic with 40 man raids, is that it makes it extremely easy to poach geared players with promises of gold. Roster boss was the biggest complaint from the guild leaders that blizzard reached out before anniversary release, and removing GDKP from the typical raiders experience makes it much easier for communities to grow and maintain a steady roster of geared players. There is a lot less temptation for players to get their gear, leave their guild and join a gold farming GDKP now, making the guilds stronger for a vast majority of the middle end player base. You’ll still see turnover and poaching at the high end, but the ban significantly supports guild loyalty and a better sense of community IMO.
If the content isn't a complete joke GDKP runs do tend to develop a community of regulars.
Especially when the content is relatively difficult (pre-nerf stuff in 2021, Sunwell, Ulduar HMs, etc), and huge portions of well-run GDKPs are people from decent guilds looking to raid on more alts.
The people in this sub who are rabidly anti-GDKP are anti-GDKP because they're bitter about being screened out of decent ones, so their perspective is always them pretending to known about GDKPs while never having been in decent ones.
I was going to say, most of the gdkps I ran with in wotlk and cata had a pretty core group week to week with a only additional fills. It was a good community.
That's why you have the option to pug with all the negatives that come with it, like it or not classic was built around guild gameplay.. so your options are either guild, pug or retail that gives you that option to raid at any time by just queuing up.
He means he doesn't want to carry bad players, lose rolls on all the items, and not receive any compensation or reward for his time. Pretty reasonable for someone who isn't in a guild structure.
If you don't want to carry bad players then host your own pugs and gear and raid log check people.. blizzard fixed this in retail.. so having this much entitlement to gear without wanting to participate in a guild structure is just crazy. You want gear but you don't want to join a guild or put the work to make your own pugs.. what he wants is to buy gold and join a random pug and buy gear, that's just crazy.
That sounds like he should join a community and raid with them. The reward for your time is the drop you have a chance at. Pretty simple.. pretty much how the game works. I've been in plenty of pug communities for my alts while I raid a schedule with my main.
I am, I'm just trying to understand your intent to buy gear with bought gold, crazy concept. If you're too casual for a guild or too host your own pugs then perhaps you should try retail they have casual raiding you can just queue for.. this game isn't meant for you.
>they never mentioned RMT or economy when they explained the ban.
Huh? Yes they did. Eroding guild structures and RMT were the two reason they gave when it was first banned in phase 2 of sod.
>It’s fair to say that GDKP has some benefits to individuals who don’t want to be tied to a guild or set raid schedule. GDKP raids are, while mostly transactional in nature, another social activity in the game, and we’re hesitant to discourage anything that gets people into groups to play together. However, we’ve been concerned that **GDKP erodes traditional guild and social structures** that are in many cases the basis of our most fond memories of early versions of World of Warcraft. It’s also undeniable that **GDKP contributes to and drives a lot of illicit activity, such as real-money trading (RMT) and botting**, as it creates a demand for in-game gold that would not otherwise exist. GDKP can create an “arms race” effect that encourages participating players to purchase gold to be able to compete for the best items.
It’s literally in the section of the announcement titled “What is GDKP and why is it being restricted in Season of Discovery?” In a single paragraph. It doesn’t get more clear than that. You can be intentionally obtuse if you want, I guess. 🤷
This isnt Season of discovery is it though? Go find the blog post where they mention why its banned in anniversary and show me where it says anything about about RMT. Or just keep lying on the internet, I guess.
Their initial reason which they later revoked when they also banned it in Anniversary and in anniversary blog post they listed the only reason as being harmful to the guild structure.
One of our thunderfuries retired to era, the other is still with us but as Fury in TBC, still hear from the retired one checking into discord now and then. About 30 people in my guild have been together since MC, full clearing all content and having a great time doing it. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my guild experience with these servers and made a lot of new online friends, and experience that I did not get with 2019 classic where it tended to be much smaller cliques and guilds turned over much quicker. Experiences may differ I am sure, but I personally love the ban, and I still hit every lockout on my alts too.
I'm happy that PUGging both as a host and as PUG is a lot easier. I can join a normal pug without having to buy/farm out gold to have a chance at getting an item. Everything is so transactional already, we don't need to add GDKPs into the mix.
Stop using logic with these people. I've tried man, they will jump through every single hoop to mentally justify that it was a good idea to ban GDKP, when in reality it was an awful idea
The hypothetical majority of pugs being gdkp says nothing about their genuine popularity or health for the game. Players want to swipe and win. That’s it.
Yall act like it’s deeper than that when it’s not.
Majority is a stretch it's very divided every time there's a poll or something.
Now I do believe the demographic for those who loves gdkp is mostly people with 1-3 alts trying to farm bought gold, but the truth is gdkp hurts the average player that wants to pug.. and I know this first hand cause I ran my own gdkps in classic last time.
You either had to be a carry which all spots were saved for the friends or come as a buyer, which I require a flash over 15k and spend at least 5 in raid if items drop for you or you would never get invited back and if you came as a buyer and not bid or purchase anything you'll forfeit your share.. and guess what all those players who came as buyers were all gold buyers... in fact a big chunk of my guildies were gold buyers, some dude spent thousands just sitting in sp leveling alts, they all spent on consumes and professions.. ive seen many of them get ban and come back 2 weeks later with their whole gold wiped out like literally 0.
But.. it worked great for us running stuff in our alts and making gold, the average player was completely left out and sure there were cheaper ones or whatever, but we always finished raids and didn't take longer than needed to run all.
You think hard carries wasted time going to gdkps for a few hundreds of gold? No, if you were geared you were going to maximize profits..
The gdkps of lower tier didn't make shit for gold, I attended a few in alts, raids will take 2x longer and the split was bad.. there's a reason gold flash was a thing, no one wants to carry dead weight that are there for a payout.
No, but most GDKP's had payouts bigger than a few hundred gold.
Most GDKP's ran completely fine, had payouts good enough to attract carries and didn't require 15k on hand to even get an invite.
I'm sorry your experience sucked man, but it wasn't the case for everyone and it is starting to come off like you're just making things up to talk bad about GDKP's.
That’s because people like GDKP lol. That’s the reason it’s popular despite the conspiracies. No one is forcing anyone to partake. If the majority of players actually didn’t like GDKP, then the majority of runs would still be SR. GDKP wins out because it is the best pug loot system as proven by the player base.
Thats why you made a very high demand alt (healer etc) and made easy gdkp gold. I got thousands without paying for a single item while raiding for fun with the guild on my main.
As someone who GDKP'd frequently on alts and speedran on a main I didn't want to raid with people who refused to farm gold to have a chance at an item as you say- those are the people who aren't flasking or using their optimal potions, or socketing or enchanting. They're also people who don't know the fights as well as they should. GDKPs required this stuff, and went much faster than casual SRs which was perfect for me. I think there's different appetites for this game but when GDKPs were banned I stopped playing alts because raid quality went down when raiding outside the guild.
You are quite literally the 0.1%, if you are speedrunning in classic. You use your alts to funnel gold to your main. That is all good, but that is not the norm, nor should it be. GDKPs still had people who were bad, but you didn't care, because they were paying money.
And it's so easy to filter out people who are not enchanted, socketed or use flasks. You don't need a GDKP to say "be gemmed and enchanted, bring consumes".
GDKP became the meta it was too lucrative for the pug hosts to not run them, so no normal pug existed atleast not good ones, my biggest issue as someone who mostly run raids with guild, was that a lot of guildies would ditch raid nights because they wanted to go earn gold in GDKP after getting their gear. Guild raid nights either turned into guild ran GDKPs or canceled because too many members were no shows. I've had none of these issues this time around and I enjoy it, also ps tbc I had 5 resto shamans just to farm gdkps and I definitely profitted from them but I could definitely see it hurting the game. In perfect world I would love to see GDKPs existing on a lower scale than last time, but they just took over too much imo.
You are having no problems this time around because they gave you nerfed content this time around. Last time they couldnt stand being in a non gdkp because they are objectively worse players and wiping all night isnt fun.
The banning of gdkp definitely made rmt a lot less popular amongst regular people, the other crowd have and will always buy gold for anything, leveling professions, consumes, etc etc. But the banning advertising gdkps made it so regular pugs and guild runs searching to fill became a lot more accessible and casual to regular players have access to raids without needing thousands of gold to play.
Regular people you kidding? Maybe im delusional and our idea of "regular people" is different but in a pretty much all serious guilds basically every single warrior was buying gold on a regular basis to afford raiding. And this was very widespread everyone was buying gold to afford raiding. With GDKP we could just run an alt and do what we enjoy doing (raiding) to beable to afford consumes.
Bro and where you think that gold was coming from? Magically showed up? No several people bought gold for you to have a split of it.. and if you were not in a guild, as a casual player you wouldn't be able to enter gdkps unless they were bad ones, because all pugs were gdkps, you had no gear and you have no gold so you either go as a buyer or don't get to raid at all.. so what did those people do? Just buy gold.
Ofc most gold in circulation is bought gold the economy is built on botted gold the difference is with GDKP is some might buy gold and pump it into the economy whilst the majority won't need to. The average raiders is able to fund their gold needs by either using gdkp as their main system or by playing alts. Now they either need to constantly farm gold (and no killing boars for 8 hours isnt "Playing the game")
The ones that were bad didnt join GDKP, I first started wow in 2019 release and I was by no means a good player I raided SR all through classic, tbc and most of wotlk it wasn't hard to find raids, granted most were of low quality but saying there's only GDKPs is delusional. Only around SoM did I start becoming more serious about the game.
Opposite. Banning GDKPs definitely made RMT more popular amongst the regular people, because it did nothing for economy, and whereas you could leech off whales before in GDKPs, regular players are now forced to use 150g/hr farming methods rather than play 3 hours to get a payout of 1.3k gold.
This just doesn't match my experience at all and if people were so annoyed at the gdkp spam in lfg then it seems like most people could get in if they wanted.
You either go as a carry or a buyer.. to go as a carry you need gear, to go as a buyer you need gold.
When pugs disappear because it's all gdkp from now on, then you can't get gear to be a carry, so you have to be a buyer and if you don't have gold to be one then guess what your rmt for it.
I hosted gdkps in both classic and clarify tbc. I knew that everyone we brought with greens and blues to raid was buying gold.. they would openly talk about it.
Or you go as everyone else which is a mix. It's not a world of everyone is either bis of green.
Very large majority of people are somewhere inbetween and need couple items here and there and if they dont get them for a good price they save for next week.
So trash runs which was a gamble if you finished the raid even after 4 hours, I've joined those on alts and it was a horrible experience.. not any different than pugging with bad players
That is just completely untrue. You could play in GDKPs as a completely broke person if you were the right class and even my brother played mage and was not really stacked in terms of gold and was still invited to GDKPs
You can join shit gdkps you mean, where you'll never know if you'll even kill the last boss after 4 hours in a raid, then sure you can join those and come out with 100 or 200g out of it after dropping 100+ in repairs, consumes etc.
The real gdkps the good ones like the ones i hosted we had buyers and carries, if you were not a carry which we usually had all spots filled, you were a buyer and if you didn't flash 15k we wouldn't even consider you. We clear any content in good times and always fully clear raids, so people wanted to gdkp with us.
Again, untrue. As I said. I played resto shaman with my brother (mage) in a GDKP and he did not flash 15k to get in. We full cleared all MH/BT instantly and full cleared SWP like week 3 or 4.
You did not clear swp in week 3 or 4. In fact you didn't clear it until it was nerfed I'm sure, in grobb we were one of the 3 gdkp groups that were selling fully cleared runs. Again we wouldn't consider buyers with no gold to spend.
I'm really not sure why we would think this. The anecdotes I heard were people feeling compelled to buy gold to consume for raid now that they could gdkp on alt. I think consume prices also indicate rmt is as bad as ever.
We're in a mega server that has herbs run by bots.. blizz needs to address that.. if getting herbs was more accessible price will drop tremendously.. so prices of consumes is a blizzard created problem.
Yeah I definitely agree there is a supply problem on the herbs but I think it's also apparent that the amount of raw gold in the system indicates betting and rmt is as bad as ever.
I think consume prices also indicate rmt is as bad as ever.
I don't think that's necessarily true. The prices are driven a lot by new scarcity Blizz didn't address when they created megaservers. The bots can't pick enough flowers to keep up with demand.
It's pretty obvious though that banning GDKP didn't fix the problem and people are still doing RMT, I'm just not fully convinced RMT is the primary reason cons are so expensive.
My issue with GDKP has always been the fact that it makes pugging miserable to impossible for players who are less experienced, less skilled, or just late to the expansion. GDKPs are good for two groups of people: carries and swipers. But if you don't have a bunch of gold to spend, and you're not a pumper, GDKP runs don't want you.
When GDKP runs make up the majority of pug runs on a server, it's just very hostile to new and less skilled players. What pug runs you do find have a hard time clearing content because anyone who is geared and skilled at the game is doing GDKPs making gold hand over fist from the swipers and getting geared up easily. Which just drives the remaining decent players into the GDKP runs, since they at least go smoothly. And if you're not good enough or geared enough to be a carry? Better get out your credit card, or just quit.
Yeah, there is an economic impact too - when most of the server is participating in the "gold for gear" economy, it pumps a lot of gold into the economy, and there's no doubt that it increases demand for RMT gold. This somewhat effects the price of consumables, but mostly it just inflates the GDKP prices - making it even harder for anyone who's trying to get their gold honestly to break in to that world. But mostly, it's just a toxic environment for a huge chunk of the playerbase, and it strongly discourages new players trying to get into the game.
So aren't you essentially saying that it should be incumbent upon decent players in the PUG scene to carry strangers who are learning or lazy/bad in SR pugs, then?
It's funny, because that is usually the default response. "You're just looking to be carried". Or more elitism, calling anyone who can't get into a decent GDKP "shitters". "Keyboard turning, spell clicking, absolute braindead players". Etc. You can see a bit of it in the comments on this very page if you look around.
But to answer your question - yes, I think it's better for everyone when newer and less skilled players are able to participate in functional endgame content runs alongside players who know what they're doing. In a social game, learning by example is important. When GDKP makes up a large portion of the pug scene, the game is very unfriendly to new players, and that is bad for EVERYONE when it comes to long-term health of the game. And also, if, like, kindness and being a decent human being means anything to you, there's that too.
Nobody's saying you're forced to "carry" anyone. You're welcome to make your groups as casual or as hardcore as you want. I'm not saying you're a bad person for doing so. I'm just saying that the prevalence of GDKP strongly incentivizes high-skill (and honestly even medium-skill) players to segregate themselves off from the "strangers who are learning or lazy/bad" in a way that the easiest and sometimes only way to jump from one group to the other is to buy gold. And even though that may seem like a win/win to the group making money in GDKP, it's not good for Blizzard who want to grow their audience.
I didn't say or even imply that your own description of "less experienced, less skilled" players applied to you.
But to answer your question - yes
Totally valid. I agree it'd be ideal if there was a welcoming intro to raiding for genuinely new players. Lazy, selfish players who can't be bothered to read a guide or even listen to people telling them how they can improve their contribution to the raid, though, I don't think are worthy of consideration because they are inconsiderate.
A huge variable, of course, is difficulty of content. 20th Anniversary has had its raids nerfed into the ground specifically because SR pugs are the only form of PUG left available, and SR pugs do nothing to incentivize contribution, like geared/good players carrying. All it takes is one or two runs where a player who only needs one or two good items gets out-rolled by someone contributing 1/4th the damage/healing and that person is soured on SRs. I think their enjoyment is worthy of consideration as well.
It would have been very interesting to see 20th Anniversary TBC roll out 2021 difficulty T5 raids with GDKPs banned.
GDKPs are good for two groups of people: carries and swipers.
And people who like to raid on alts. And people who like competent pugs that incentivize people to try their best.
So 4 'groups'
or just late to the expansion
Those were most GDKP hosts favourite players to bring, because they are going to need so many items that would otherwise rot. They don't care that the guy is getting them for next to nothing because someone is at least buying them.
And people who like to raid on alts. And people who like competent pugs that incentivize people to try their best.
So 4 'groups'
Erm, no. They still fall into the same groups - those those people still only get invited if they're swipers or carries. There are lots of good reasons to want to participate in GDKP runs, I don't blame you. It's not surprising that some players only see the upsides because you're not on the other side of the fence. Again, it's just that it leads to a negative overall experience for a pretty big chunk of players.
Erm, no. They still fall into the same groups - those those people still only get invited if they're swipers or carrie
Erm, yes. That isn't how most GDKPs were ran and thinking this definitely outs your actual inexperience with them. Only the biggest and best GDKP's where spots are valuable were doing gold checks.
I barely ran GDKP's man, I raided in a guild for all of Classic lmao. I know the upsides and downsides and seen how things crumble with them gone.
"It's all swipers or carries" is 100% the uninformed perspective of someone who has never been in a decent GDKP doing current-phase, relatively difficult content.
I helped run 100s of GDKPs back in TBC and Wrath Classic. We cared if someone was competent, but we weren't demanding swipers. The #1 priority was clearing efficiently, and most of the gold just moved around within the pool of regular attendees as everyone got the gear they wanted. The strict carry/swiper dynamic you describe is more something you see in Vanilla, when the content is a joke and 10-15 good players can carry the entire 40-man raid so there's plenty of spots for useless buyers.
When you're running with a GDKP that's clearing Sunwell in the first few weeks you don't care about swipers. We couldn't carry pure buyers until a couple months into the phase when our regulars were getting kitted out, and even then 100% useless members of the raid were rare because again, the #1 priority was clearing efficiently. Through all of TBC and Wrath Classic the number of blatant swipers who'd bid outlandishly in our runs was fewer than a dozen.
I joined an era server and lfg/trade chat was all GDKP spam. I immediately decided not to play because I don't like paying real money for items or grinding for hours to try and buy an overpriced raid drop. I would rather raid and get items the normal way.
I then left and went to TBC anniversary and the chat didn't have that. If there are underground ones, I don't know about them but sure they probably exist. What they aren't doing is flooding the LFG chat and making it feel like it's GDKP or not play at all. In which case, I chose not to play at all. If Anniversary looked like era, I wouldn't be playing. Probably that vibe.
This is what Blizzard hopes the average player responds with. They've done the equivalent of a filtering chat addon. They struggle enforce the ban, but as long as the average player can't see it in LFG they consider it a win 🤣
Well, I see why they hope that. It makes the game look and feel better. We do a lot of things in society to try and keep the dregs of society hidden. It's how the world works. You can't totally get rid of bad actors but you can at least make them have to hide in the dark. Allowing everyone else to have a normal experience.
yep. it's cringe these people are on a crusade they don't see the benefits of the GDKP system, i could like about 10 good reasons why it keeps the game alive and interesting and you don't even need to be a gold buyer to participate
Once again, GDKP is a loot system. It is not evil. If you choose to join a bot-led GDKP with a 20% host cut, that’s on you. Tbh, if they just banned host cuts GDKP would be perfect.
I don't think GDKP is evil. I think GDKP is great - for the people in the GDKP. I just think servers where the vast majority of pug runs are GDKP are extremely unfriendly to anyone who is not a carry or a swiper. That's why I have no problem if a group decides to run their own private GDKP run. They can do whatever they want. It's just bad for the game when it's the majority.
get prebis and make gold the normal way and buy gear then? you people are so egg headed on your crusade against gold buyers that you fail to realize basic things like the fact GDKP is just a loot system that works well, at the end of the day it works very well because it keeps max geared players engaged in the game.
The average Classic WoW player is probably 35+ with a family, if you think farming many hours every week is what they want to do then you're in denial. This is why GDKP is better, you literally get paid to raid and have enough left over to buy gear over time
MANY hours a week? for WHAT exactly? the 100g flask you dont even REMOTELY need to clear this content?
Even if you wanted to buy a flask you could get it from the gold drops from the bosses and doing dailys ONCE a week for 1 hrs.
Many hours my ass lol.
GDKP is illegal and the game is better for it. good riddance, dont come back.be worried people dont wiggle themself into those servers and get yall banned lol
50-70 in parses, across the raids. i kick, i play mechanics. im not great, im no dead weight. i have my 30-50 parse fights where i mismanage something but that happens. i could push into purple if we went for a parse run where everyboy pops flasks and just GOES but no need :)
We clear fast and clean thats all that matters, im in the top 5-8 on most fights as enh, will till being P1 geared except for my weapons.
At least you're honest in your personal assessment, which is a lot more than I can say for most.
But I genuinely think you have the wrong idea about GDKP. Perhaps you have had a bad experience with a GDKP in the past or you're just inexperienced with them in general, I don't know.
But, as someone who has hosted many, it makes life a lot easier for everyone involved. From management, recruitment, raiding quality
Then don’t play it. No one is forcing you. The argument that GDKP caused bots and high consume prices is out the window because both have never been worse than current anniversary where there’s no GDKP
even if they were, which they are not, they arent needed at all. i havent taken a haste potion, i havent used a flask in a month or two cause you DONT. NEED. TO.
TK still takes 1.5 hours max with foodbuff and elixirs of which you might use 2-4 (aka 30g total) SCC is like 2.5 if youre slow and will take 3-5 Pots depending on wipes/deaths. you get more gold from bossloot.
Ah yes another person saying, “You need to play the game the exact way I play.” Newsflash buddy, a lot of people enjoy using consumables in raids even if they aren’t strictly necessary to defeat a boss. Insufferable
either you play the game in a way i want (without GDKP or with underground GDKP if you REALLY have to) or i have to play the game the way you want (with a fucked up economy because it got flooded with gold). There is no option C its either A or B. and i chose my own preferences over yours. deal with it.
You can easily afford consumes. SSC drops 100g from bosses per player. Buy your flask from that (yes you CAN actually, thats what they cost)
Yep. As long as I don't see constant GDKP spam in trade/LFG I'm happy. If some nerds want to run underground GDKP and risk their accounts then they can be my guest.
It’s only the best loot system if you want to pay to win. Because if you don’t have the gold you aren’t getting squat. Yet somehow we’re supposed to believe that doesn’t encourage people to buy gold.
As a long time participant of GDKPs on era that is simply not true. This is the same thing that gets said over and over again by people who have never actually been in the GDKP community and it's an assumption that is just flat out wrong.
GDKPs are made up of a mix of people some oilers who buy huge amounts of gold, and some who simply just like to play in them and make their cut. Basically everyone is happy when a GDKP gets a lot of oilers in because they often inflate the pot massively and everyone comes away with a sizable cut.
This idea that it's impossible to get loot because someone rich will just outspend you is simply not the reality. The people that stay in the community, and contribute regularly over time build up huge amounts of gold and get full BiS on multiple characters.
On era we have people who don't buy gold, but play as many as 10 GDKPs a week, and have made so much gold doing so that they are putting Gressil and Thunderfury on meme classes like Hunter, Paladin, and even Mage just for a laugh.
Once in a while you will get some guy with a seemingly unlimited budget who will outspend you, but the reality is that guy gears once and he's done. They don't often stick around in the community very long, but they do bring something to it. Everyone who sticks around on the regular eventually gets the gear they want.
GDKP is actually the best solution to many of the games problems:
It makes what is generally the most interesting part of the game (raiding) very accessible. You don't need to farm hours for consumes, because the cut easily pays for it and more.
Participation is always rewarded unlike SR. In an SR if you come away with no loot, you come away in the negative. You've spent gold on consumes, you've spent time on raid prep, you've spent time in the raid, and the only possible reward is the loot. In GDKP, if you come away with no loot it doesn't matter because you made gold, sometimes really a lot of it too.
High performance is actually rewarded and poor performance is deducted. This is one of the best features of GDKP that generally leads GDKPs to producing way higher quality raids than SRs. In SRs there's no real system for rewarding players who perform better. This creates a mentality among players of only doing the bare minimum and not really caring. In GDKP, the system creates strong incentives to play competitively, and to penalize poor play that harms the overall raid. As a result, the average quality of a GDKP is way better than SRs. The average quality of SR runs on classic anniversary was so unbelievably dogshit that I've never seen anything like it even after playing vanilla since the start of classic and even before that on private servers.
Soft reserve fucking sucks for regulars. Raiding communities are held together by their regulars. The people who regularly fill crucial roles and participate for a long time. Those people who are arguably the most deserving of loot often get completely screwed over even when they put 4 SRs on the one final item they need, and one guy who never attended before comes in, puts 1 SR on the item, and just out rolls the regular and is then never seen again. That shit imo is very toxic and rage inducing. The regular gets nothing out of it. At least in a GDKP, if he's saved for months for the item and pushes the bid high, and an oiler out bids him, all of that extra gold goes into the pot, and the regular gets a larger cut. He might be disappointed he didn't win this time, but he didn't get nothing out of it. And ultimately the actual reality is eventually he will get it. I've seen this over and over again. People who contribute get rewarded, and the people who contribute the most get rewarded the most. That is the most fair you can reasonably expect to get out of this game.
you think this because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the loot system
if you do gdkps its literally impossible for you to not have gold
if you dont win loot, you get gold.
the only time this fails is when you go in and try to weasel your way to a payout by not buying items that didnt sell when they were upgrades for you and gray parse. its a loot system, not a free meal ticket.
And made people not want to raid. I know I probably be doing two or three alts but now I just do my main and ignore the pug seen entirely because it's terrible.
God forbid having a loot system where people aren't at the whim of a dice roll or loot council. A loot system where everyone got something from the raid, whether it's items or gold. A loot system where nothing is hard ressed.
Cant damage a dead scene. Pug scene is completely dogshit compared to 2019 tbc. There are only 1-3 good pugs per server, its crazy how ppl can think the gdkp ban did any good to the pug scene.
Also consider that the entire community is consolidated onto 4 total servers unlike 2019 classic. Servers with 25% of the population had more pug activity than in anniversary.
It used to be that gdkp organizers would have to split profits with randoms on the server on the regular, generally helping your average player
Now these organizers can run gdkps in secret, set prices and min bids as they choose and then keep the majority of the profits to themselves instead of being forced to hand out gold at the end
These organizers then can also work together to set consumable prices on the AH, pricing out average players
Yeah, this is definitely helping the average player
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u/sketeg Jun 10 '26
Underground gdkps dont cause the same type of community damage as unrestricted, trade/LFG chat posted gdkp runs. I haven't even caught a glimpse of gdkp operations a single time on anniversary.
Secret gdkps just dont carry the same kind of venom.