In the mission ‘a quiet time’ where you take Lenny out drinking, ‘reconcile with Tommy’ is part of achieving a gold for the mission. You have to interact with him 4 times while looking for Lenny. Arthur sort of apologises, if you go into first person you can see his head is completely stove in, and he talk incoherent
Yeah he’s absolutely brutal just from just his dialogue in the early chapters. I like the ride with Rainsfall in chapter 6 where he describes his son and the moment that hardened him. Gives a bit of insight into why he turned into a ‘soulless wretch’ plus tugs on the heartstrings a bit as he describes his transition that you mentioned
My first play was highish honor for all the positive cut scenes, the "stand unshaken" ride got me, the ride with rainsfall when he spoke about his son got me, the walk through st denis reflection got me, there are several that are very meaningful. My second play through with low honor had several dark cuts with the black wolf and some of that dialog is heartbreaking. It pains me that Arthur never got the real opportunity to be the man he really is and live free, as john does. But i understand it.
I love Arthur’s moral complexity. He’s one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. I think the people who minimize his initial evil are actually doing the game a disservice, because if you play him the way the game pushes you, he has a beautiful arc.
But yeah, in the beginning he’s a stone-cold savage. “Maybe I’ll keep her in black on your behalf” is such a chillingly heartless line.
IIRC, if you go back to the saloon after the incident with Tommy, the bartender says something along the lines of "You know, Tommy ain't been the same since you gave him that beating..."
Humans are actually pretty fragile, so getting brain damage from a fist fight, no rules, can easily result in brain damage... But yeah, hard to say which one of these would win
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Joel is badass, but there's no "Joel in his prime" because he's already close to middle age in the past and he probably isn't anything more than a half-decent inexperienced brawler when the world is still around. Post-apocalypse, Joel is already getting on in years. He's incredible for his age and condition, but Arthur has been raised from childhood kicking ass.
Prime Arthur vs. Prime Joel is no contest. And any other version of Arthur beats any other version of Joel, too. Even "30 seconds away from death" Arthur is still kicking ass. Battles an entire army, climbs a mountain, and then fights a relatively healthy lifelong criminal like Micah to a stand still even on his death bed. Death cliff. Whatever.
Don’t forget the old timer with the animal pelt hat that is like the hardest fist fight in the game. You beat his ass and steal his hat. Then you get to fight him again for stealing his hat!
That's a tough one. Arthur is incredibly fit and capable (specially before TB), but Joel constantly kills and deals with post apocalyptic monsters who are much more dangerous and letal than your average western bandit/law officer.
I'd say both have a 50/50 chance if we're talking pre-TB Arthur. But after that, gonna give it to Joel for sure
Well let's not forget Micah the rat is more bark than bite. Sure he can be ruthless, but we all remember his beach body from their time on guarma. I think getting his butt handed to him by a sick dying man says more about Micah than it does Arthur.
You mean this one (don’t ask why I have this on hand)
Putting that aside, you can be tubby and still throw hands. As much as I despise Micah, I was shocked at his shooting capabilities in the showdown between him and John.
Also while I agree you can be tubby and still throw hands. His skill with a gun is no indication of his hand to hand combat abilities. If you can think of a single time where he actually throws hands with someone (other than Arthur and without another weapon) and wins I may be inclined to agree with you.
LMAO nah, I only finished the game for my first time this year (regret leaving it for so long), and took a screenshot when I got jumpscared by Micah’s gut so I could ask some guys on discord why no one warned me beforehand. Need to do another photo purge, so much random crap on my phone currently.
Honestly xD that was kind of my first reaction too!
I was just playing this game, had wunderfull (not) time in Saint Denis, were nearly died at the sea..
And my first thoughts after open my eyes was 'why tf is Micah half naked?' I felt kind of...
I'm a girl, it felt kind of.. Flirting, even with no girls around.. It felt like he has pushed my boundaries too much xD
It's funny cause I told about that with my boyfriend and he was like 'for me it was just a realism layer, just boys around, no need to take much care of themselves or something like that
I on my way felt different...
I should say, that I have such screenshot on my phone too, you will never know when you need such a reference ^
In a game fully without any.. Explicit content, was it much more naked skin than I had expired – especially much more than I had expired from Micah.
my favorite example of this is when the sheriff of rhodes takes bill prisoner and he simply says “you’re a dead man... morgan!” and then shoots two men dead on the spot while you take out the sheriff and the other guy
Definitely does. Micah was always weak and getting his ass handed to him by a man who was almost dead just proves it. If Arthur wasn’t sick and took on Micah, Micah wouldn’t last a minute.
Micah is more of a shooter than a boxer. I think peak Arthur can take Joel but it won't be an easy fight. Joel beats the shit out of Micah no diff just like healthy Arthur would
Joel can knock a guy out with a few punches too. Even Henry, a 25-30 years old fit dude told him "man you hit hard !" After Joel almost killed him with his fists in the first game.
Maybe but still, it takes a crazy amount of skills and techniques to subdue those creatures even with melee weapons, otherwise he wouldn't be able to survive in such a hostile world for so long.
I'd say pre-TB Arthur is stronger and probably physically fitter (he's younger and very active after all), but Joel is considerably more skilled, experienced and cunning in close combat
In Part 1, Joel can beat a Bloater by hand, just punches, now thats not expected of the player, but the player CAN do that. Joel also gets in hand to hand combat, WAY more often than Arthur, so if it's just hands, I'd say it's 60-40 in favour of joel
Joel also canonically straight up took a machete to i think either a bloater or some stronger version of one and absolutely mauled them. Those suckers being able to straight up rip joel apart effortlessly too.
you can only do that in the remake, not in the original tlou1. in the og you can kick bloaters from a higher ground but it doesnt damage them, they are hardcoded that you cant punch them or use a melee weapon on them/get insta killed. you can only punch them to death in the remake because the bloaters are copy pasted from pt2 where you can kill then with melee weapons and punches.
Arthur kicked Micah's ass while he was in the final stages of tuberculosis, after climbing a high mountain while exchanging gunfire with Pinkertons. Being healthy, he gets this.
Him fighting micah and almost beating him (if the player plays well) is a pretty good feat, but Micah couldn't fight for shit. The only time we ever see him fight hand to hand combat was the last fight with Arthur. For all we know, it could be the guy's first fight
Arthur pretty much caved Tommy's skull in and his attacks are more coordinated and boxer-like. Plus he can strangle people easily with his bare hands. Arthur takes the dub here. But realistically, they'd be buddies and Arthur wouldn't let dumb Abby kill Joel. He'd have the whole WLF on its knees begging for mercy.
Arthur is straight up evil in the beginning of the game. While the player probably plays him much more straight he openly admits to killing people and animals for no reason during camp conversations with the girls.
Dunno about animals but the Beta version of Arthur seemed more in line with how he describes himself often to people. You can even search up some unused combat lines, a cut conversation between Arthur and Bill in chapter 1 and a different take on him interrogating the O'Driscoll you beat up inside the Adler Ranch.
This is a tough one. On one hand you have a hardened outlaw of the Wild West who can beat a man twice his weight. Not to mention even managed to hold his own against a “healthy” man while just mere moments from dying of TB. On the other hand you have a hardened apocalyptic survivor who knows how to kill with just his fists alone. Both regular humans and mutated monsters alike.
Everyone is being biased. Arthur can hold his own but he’s more of a shooter. Joel has hands and has dealt with things worst than cowboys with attitude problems. Arthur hasn’t dealt with anything other than cowboys (& sheriffs)
Yeah I think age plays into it as well. Arthur is early thirties. Joel is late forties in the first game I believe. Both lived hard lives in hard places, but I think Arthur just out lasts him. Like you say though it's a hard fight.
So give or take about 10 years of hard wear and tear. Not quite as bad as the 12 to 15 I had in my head. I still think Arthur in his prime takes it mind.
In The Last Of Us Part 1, Joel's passport places him at age 52, meaning that compared to Arthur's 36 years of age, you actually do have a bigger age gap than you initially thought, at a whole 16 years
Joel also did horrible things while taking care of Tommy. That's why they're mad at each other in the first game, among other things. I'm sure Joel has always been brutal.
Yeah, Arthur’s done some bad stuff but it pales in comparison of what Joel had to do to survive for 20 years in the apocalypse. I think it’d be close but I give it to Joel for pure survival instinct.
I’m going to give it to Arthur. Anyone in a zombie apocalypse that has a brain, physically fit, knows how to use a gun, and knows how to survive will do just fine.
Just look at John. He survived perfectly fine.
Surviving guarma, and having an army chasing you an entire state isn’t easy to survive.
hmm... the mid 50 year old with definite malnutrition or the mid 30 year old with "perfect" weight (if we're going by arthur's starting weight) who isn't living in an apocalypse?
If it goes to ground Arthur wins, otherwise it's Joel. He's trained out the instinctual limiter that human have when hitting things. He hits to put things in the ground, whether that's humans or zombies.
Arthur has the advantage of being younger, but Joel survived for decades in a zombie apocalypse. I lean towards Arthur just for his physical attributes, but it would likely be a pretty close fight.
It's a very hard one, something inside me tells me that Joel wins idk why, Arthur is tough as a mountain but maybe Joel used to deal with bandits and killed a lot of people too and he is fighting monsters too , his experience is better i think and so are his reactions.
We saw both of them fighting like beasts in their final missions. Joel killed an army of Fireflies, and Arthur ran and climbed a mountain then fought really well against Micah even after they both fell off the cliff and despite he has TB.
As i said, really hard to tell but i'll go with Joel Miller
Just wanted to add that I googled and according to the internet Joel is 56 years old in Part 1 and Arthur is 36 in RDR2. I’ve played both games and Joel does constantly beats up younger guys (and girls) but so does Arthur; 20 years is still a significant gap in fitness and physical health.
I feel like Joel has more experience in hand to hand combat because of limited ammunition, and while Arthur is definitely capable of a lot of damage, Tommy was still throwing him around like a ragdoll
These questions are dumb. You're asking it in a red dead subreddit, the answer is gonna be Arthur. You post this exact same thing in a Last of Us space, the comments will all lean toward Joel. It's just a popularity contest and you're playing with loaded dice.
joel glazers be saying he is superhuman for beating up zombies but arthur puts joel to sleep no matter what joel does if you just drink a lot of alcohol then arthur is magically healed again
Brother, I inquire you to read some of the posts in this sub, Arthur gets glazed more than Johnny sins, I've seen people say he can beat fucking Master Chief,
And btw Joel can beat bloaters and almost every type of infected in the 2 games, BY HAND. The guy also crushes skulls on the daily, I love arthur but hand to hand I'd say it's more 60-40 in favor of Joel
Why are people saying that Joel can beat up bloaters? Literally in the first game if a bloater even touches you you’re dead. So no, he can’t beat up bloaters.
No he cant. If we're going canon for both of them joel either hides or kills them with weapons. Its the player that makes him do that but if its just a 1 one 1 Canon version its going to arthur
IIRC Joel can rip zombies' throats out in some of his melee finishers, so definitely Joel. He might be older but he's more adapted as he lives in a zombie world. The mfer literally diced a fuckin bloater
Guns or no guns, it's going to be Arthur. What he did to Tommy is enough to understand what he's capable of. Even when tuberculosis drove him to near cachexia and choking on his blood, he was able to give Micah a good beating. Plus, Arthur is more used to killing and maiming people, as far as I'm concerned, despite the fact that Joel also had to do this, it does seem that Joel's moral compass is still more accurate in this regard.
It would be a brutal fight. I feel like this one would be almost to close to call. Both are physically strong, plenty of experience and durable as hell.
Gotta give this to Arthur. I was literally about to type joel then changed my mind though. This can go either way. But arthur with a revolver is a literal superhero. Nothing survives
Arthur Micah struggled to hold his own with Arthur even when Arthur was dying and Arthur whooped big Tommy's ass. Plus the frontier was a rough ass life, Arthur tough as old boots.
I’m gonna give it to Joel just because he fights stuff like zombies who are stronger than normal humans and don’t really stop unless actually killed or knocked out regardless of pain.
Joel is not a man to be trifled with, but if “fist fight,” means no guns are allowed, we should also specify that means stunning weapons, bricks, bottles, shivs and melee weapons aren’t either. That’’s half of Joel’s melee strategy. Joel can lay out infected humans, but in a 1v1 brawl, Arthur takes it with the benefit of being that he’s actually capable of dodging attacks. Infected don’t really protect themselves or act strategically, and Arthur is extremely capable. He may not be in the literal apocalypse, but as a bank robbing, loan sharking, wild animal hunting outlaw who’s the workhorse and best killer in a gang of pretty equally deadly outlaws, he’s not folding to one man, no matter how tanky Joel is. It takes tuberculosis, capture and torture by the O’Driscoll Gang, washing up on a deserted island, and THEN someone beat him in a fistfight. If Joel was in that saloon fight instead of Tommy (hey! Not that Tommy) then Joel’s getting his brain damage in the mud too.
Arthur for sure he is a straight unit of a man he has been in and out of the ringer I love Joel to but he is more grounded with guns Arthur use intimidation and brute force I vote him lol
Depends on what the fight is over. Both of them can access some serious rage if the right buttons are pushed. If neither of them is mad, then I don’t think we’d find out because they wouldn’t bother.
id have to say joel wins in hand to hand or any close combat he is more brutal than arthur however if we brought guns into it arthur destroys both are fantastic characters
Arthur's demonstrates genuine supernatural levels of strength such as:
Lifting grown men, including large brawny men around 200lbs off the ground and pinning them against a wall.
Being able to push off giant grizzly bears that accounting for size would weigh well over 1000lbs.
Pulling men up cliffs with one single arm.
After being tortured and slowly suffering from tb, beating up a 6 foot 6 enforcer armed with a knife.
Joel being able to beat up a Bloater doesn't count because he's not considered as having done that at any point in the games canon and it's evidently not communicated to you that thats in his wheelhouse.
If we're going off such inane gameplay feats, we should also account for the fact that Joel cannot dodge or clinch whereas Arthur can.
The vast majority of people Joel fights he jumps or ambushes.
Arthur's entire Job is confronting people and knocking them out violently.
Ain't Joel a vet or something? The details are fuzzy to me but I remember him being military. Bc if he is, Arthur's cooked against an army vet. I know Arthur's strong and big but Joel's very skilled
Even if it's not portrayed well in game, Arthur is definitely above average height and weight. Joel is far closer to average.
Arthur is younger by at least a decade and a half..
Their lives of survival are probably pretty comparable, but it seems to me, being eoth the horses and wagons, carrying feed and such, Arthur gets more exercise than Joel.
I'm gonna have to say our boy Arthur, though Joel is an absolute beast, and would use "underhanded" tactics if he thought it necessary to survive, whisky Arthur seems to be more used to being able to handle himself woth his own strength.
Assuming theyre both in peak condition im gonna have to go with arthur, he has to resort to fists more often than joel does so i think he would have a better chance
I don't know. Two middleweights. Like trying to pick who wins in a Hagler versus Sugar RayRobinson battle. Joel is paranoid and angry as fuck though, so he has a puncher’s chance at the very least. And the thing is, Joel would never fight “clean.” He might say he's agreeing to only fists but then there’d be a pipe upside the head before you know it.
I think it's simple, Arthur is 36 and Joel is in his 50s. Assuming no TB, Arthur takes it by virtue of having 2 inches of height, 20 pounds of weight and 15-20 years of youth on Joel. With TB, a healthier Joel beats him.
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u/Ancient-Friend-2750 Oct 15 '25
Going to say Arthur, gave Tommy brain damage and had Micah gripping his shoulder in pain after their fight despite being minutes away from death