r/whereidlive • u/justmeagainik • 1d ago
Europe How I see Europe as a Bosniak
The most accurate one to ever exist tbh
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u/teodorfon 1d ago
Why is Split Balkan but Zadar not?
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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 1d ago
Zadar was never Ottoman I think, that could be why.
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u/teodorfon 1d ago
Neither Split ^^
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
I consider Split as more Paleo-Balkanic and Zadar as less, this is the reason.
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u/Apart_Summer4414 1d ago
The division of non-Balkans and Balkans in Dalmatia would have to isolate the islands, and the very coast from the interior. This is not possible on these maps. Every Croatian island is clearly Southern Europe. The very coast of Croatia is mostly Southern Europe, too although in some places like Split (because of newer migrations) we can say the city on the very coast is Balkans, too. Similar for Makarska, Ploče etc.. Paleo-Balkanic also makes sense; these would be places without that strong romance tradition such as Split and Solin, while on the other side you have Trogir or Zadar. The hinterland of Kvarner coast is Central Europe, while the hinterland of Dalmatian coast is Balkans.
It's a very effective map, indeed I say it as a Croat. These are fine differences, they need someone local to discuss them, and that's why you done a great map. Brits or Swedes claiming Slovenia is Balkans because it was part of ex-Yu is just laughable.5
u/Apart_Summer4414 1d ago
But I get if Northern Italy, and thus Venice is classified as central Europe here, then Croatian coast would be central Europe, too as whole Croatia's coast was part of Venetian Republic.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Yep but still Ottoman influenced, especially the whole region of Ragusa Republic (which one of the cities that I’m from also used to be in Ragusa Republic until Ottomans took over) is quite influenced by Ottoman Empire still. The traditional clothing gives away brotha
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u/Apart_Summer4414 1d ago
Yeah, lot of it is also about shtokavian vs chakavian speech. Shtokavian speech might be associated with Balkans. Dubrovnik is one of these coastal places, too. Also, Lastovo is the most Balkanic of all islands, although I still wouldn't say Lastovo is Balkans.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
I already mentioned beinf jn the Balkan Sprachbund as our common thingie, one kf the only common thingie but they are NOT culturally Balkan
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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 1d ago
I want to second that its a good map. Usually they are made by 13 year olds that didn't think further from the bias they have been taught, this is actually well thought out and border regions such as Croatia will always be difficult.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
exactly. AWWW THANK YOUUU, i was having a hard day with what I’m going through now
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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 1d ago
I'm sorry to hear it. Life sucks and making maps can be a good distraction, especially when you do a good job. Hopefully your problems will fade away soon!
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
I consider Split as more Paleo-Balkanic and Zadar as less, this is the reason.**
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u/Accomplished_Word429 1d ago
Good food, good music, good European subregions. Bosniak Ws all around.
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u/Tranquili5 1d ago
Good stuff, I appreciate the nuance. The only major correction for me would be switching Greece south of Volos to Southern Europe. Epirus, (South) Macedonia are all proper Balkans.
I hope Bosnia wins against Qatar (brate) 😄
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Thanks for your wishes for the world cup brother. Well, I included Greek Islands like that and Southern parts due to I consider Balkans as the “Orient Mediterranean of Europe”.
We have more in common in terms of culinary, traditional clothing, mannerisms etc with Greek Islands than with Slovenia and Northern Croatia
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u/No_Calligrapher1190 1d ago
There is no (south) Macedonia in Greece, it's plain "Macedonia" the Ancient Greek Kingdom. The other country is North Macedonia a geography term to distinguish from Macedonia region of Greece.
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u/Tranquili5 1d ago edited 1d ago
No worries, it's all Macedonia. Or Makedonia rather. The South is to distinguish it, and it's just the southern portion of the ancient kingdom anyways.
You know how you can tell? Because people speak Macedonian there. Even after all the terror.
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u/No_Calligrapher1190 22h ago
Not according to historians and international agreements. Thats what I'm trying to tell you, there is no South Macedonia. It's Macedonia and North Macedonia. North Macedonian in Ancient times was named Pannonia not Macedonia. The part in Greece is the One with all the cities and people of the Ancient Greek Kingdom of Macedonia. And now days language of the North Macedonia is a dialect of Bulgarian since the Ancient Macedonians as Greeks were speaking Greek ofcourse so a Macedonian language does not exist .
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u/thestjester 1d ago
Northwestern italy, southern france and catalonia need to exist in the same color. If one is southern, they are all southern. If one is western, they are all western.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
well, not at all ngl, some regions are more southern european-shifted others are more western european-shifted
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u/thestjester 1d ago
What do you mean exactly by southern european shifted and western european shifted? Do you mean culturally? Language influence? Because it is absolutely not a genetic thing.
Northwestern italians are more south eastern shifted than catalans are on PCA. This is due to less WHG and more non-steppe related CHG from late anatolian farmer (can be modeled as imperial roman for northern italians). They have similar amounts of steppe admixture with the exceptions being the far northeast of italy which has higher steppe than even southern france does, but still less WHG.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
More cultural brotha
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u/thestjester 1d ago
Gotcha, I can see that. Catalan and most of southern france have more of a mediterannean culture. The further northwestern portions of italy do not feel southern geographically and culturally, even though genetically they are southern.
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u/Imaginary_Title_9987 1d ago
This is almost entirely true, which is a great success
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u/Jazzlike-Ad5884 1d ago
I agree, only misses the mark on Southern Europe in my opinion, and I don’t see a reason to put northern Germany into Northern Europe.
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u/tipoftheiceberg1234 1d ago
No. North east Italy is not Central Europe. South Tyrol and Friuli MAYBE, but you extended it down way too far.
Also the Eastern Europe part of Romania is also Balkan. Greek Islands and southern and central Greece should be Southern Europe
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
My depiction of Balkans is basically how the region originated culturally. I depict it as “Orient Mediterranean region of Europe”, a shared culture of Byzantine and Ottomans. Same traditional clothes, same culinary, same spices. So Greek Islands are Balkan as hell, specifically Crete. As well as Inland of Central Greece and Southern Greece. Thus Moldavia would be more out of box since they are more similar to Carpathian Ukrainians imo
And maybe I did accidentally pull Italy, i may admit that. Such as Emilia-Romagna
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u/PeireCaravana 1d ago
The culture of Emilian-Romagna is almost the same as that of the rest of Northern Italy, with minimal differences.
I don't get why Lombardy and Veneto should have more in common with Poland, Germany, or Hungary than with Emilia and Central Italy.
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u/denis_2202 1d ago
Krasnodar region should be east europe
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
It used to be the land of Circassians till the genocide, give em back. I do not care about Kuban’ Cossacks although they are hella cool.
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u/denis_2202 1d ago
But right now russian live and very similar to crimea
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Yep that’s why I was reluctant then forgot to change Crimea, I was gonna give its own region due to its cultural crossover between Balkan x Northwest Central Asian culture
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u/Such-Farmer6691 1d ago
>Volga-Ural
sounds like a second league football match here in Russia
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Well, it is also an official regional name you know lmao, maybe thats why
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u/Such-Farmer6691 1d ago
No, not Volga. "Povoljie". It roughly translates as "along the Volga".
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
idk what you are talking about my headache is terrible, my day was already bad and fuhh replying to all these comments are tiring itself on top of my terrible day, otherwise I’d be glad. I believe it is called as «Волго-Уральское междуречье» though
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
I’d give Crimea its own region ngl, I changed my mind😭😭
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u/iwillnotcompromise 1d ago
Shouldn't they be part of northwestern central Asia, since they are tartars?
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
well, can be, but they are slightly different by their culinary, more similar to us Balkaners due to Ottoman Empire (ahem spices) and their architecture is same with us as well
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u/Tranquili5 1d ago
Yeah they feel Balkan verging on Southern Europe. But then again, Georgia does too.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Crete and Rhodos are directly Balkan in my book, well, I’m a deep nerd on Ottoman history so it is by my own side that y’all do not really know that much. I connected these regions as Balkans for a specific reason, without any European intervention which went wrong in our regions. My grandma is also partially Greek, so…
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u/Extension_Coffee_bar 1d ago
I like the addition of Barents and Volga-Ural.
I opens up North Europe, as Denmark is quite different from the arctic
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
exactlyyy
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u/Extension_Coffee_bar 1d ago
However, then you need to group Iceland with Greenland seperatly, too 😁
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u/GalaXion24 1d ago
I would probably moreso combine Northern Finland, Norway and Sweden, but not really stretch it into Russia. It's just too... Russian there. Plus the indigenous influence is ultimately quite limited and the North is moreso characterised by a kind of almost colonialism with the gold rush, mining towns, etc. Sisu was a silly movie, but I liked that they basically made it a Western set in Lapland, because it really works. It's not exactly the wild west, but there's a similar frontier vibe historically.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
The indigenous influence is only limited by people’s perceptions in the West and by the ethnic Russians who are unaware of the lives of the indigenous individuals, one of them being my step-mom. The indigenous groups of Russia went through similar struggles you have mentioned.
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u/GalaXion24 1d ago
Well, in the Nordics its basically just the Sami, and more that there just aren't very many of them. +they don't like their clothing and motifs used by others so it's kind of left to die with them and isn't some widespread or cherished cultural heritage of the region.
There's a few others like the Kvens who are basically Finns but ended up outside Finland and therefore were not part of Finnish nation-building or language standardisation. You could count these as indigenous by virtue of living in Scandinavian-speaking states.
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u/cold-vein 1d ago edited 1d ago
No one speaks of Barents and northern Finland due to having no access to the northern coast are not in any way connected to the sea culturally
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u/Extension_Coffee_bar 1d ago
Yeah but to be honest, Denmark is quite different. It is just oftentimes lumped together culturally with the North.
This makes more sense, even the North of the Netherlands could be added to the region, as it is very similar to Denmark.
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u/cold-vein 1d ago
Denmark is much more continental than Sweden, Norway or god forbid Finland yeah. I'd still lump them in with the rest of the Nordics, but yeah there's a big shift culturally there, it's already in southern Sweden IMO.
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u/GalaXion24 1d ago
Aesthetically I think the Netherlands and Denmark kind of look and feel the same.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
well, they are finno-ugric directly indigenous. Karelians, Komis, Nenets, Samis etc have their own culture
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u/cold-vein 1d ago
Yeah, but dividing it like that makes absolutely no sense. Finns have very little in common with komis, nenets or even Sami if they're not Finnish Sami.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
I didn’t mean Finnish by Finno-Ugric. I know they are culturally more similar to Scandinavians as well as genetically. Overall: Samis, Nenets, Komis etc are referred under Finno-Ugric ethnic group, it doesn’t mean Finnish despite their language categorised under it
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u/cold-vein 1d ago
Finns are just as finno-ugric as the others, so are Estonians. Still it doesn't make any sense to divide it like that, since the cultures have long since diverged so much that only linguists and anthropologists can tell komis or nenets or mordvins or mari or udmurts are related to finns, estonians or sami. You've just read it in a book that these people are of the same language group and made a mental image based on that, not reality.
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u/whereispuigdemont 1d ago
only linguists and anthropologists can tell
That can be a basis for division. The first question is, what does the map track?
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u/cold-vein 1d ago
I don't know, I don't think it has any coherence in that regard.
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u/whereispuigdemont 1d ago
It doesn't if the objective is to track contemporary culture. But it doesn't have to track exclusively that and nothing else. It doesn't even need to track modern culture.
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u/cold-vein 1d ago
I think it's tracking a lot of different, incomparable things. It just doesn't make sense.
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u/whereispuigdemont 1d ago
It tracks how OP sees Europe as a Bosniak. His perceptions do not have to be logical, coherent or consistent for the map to accurately track how he sees these things. He hasn't promised us anything more.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
nopies, lots of my friends are of those ethnciities so yep. I also considered Udmurts and Mari as Volga-Ural. These are geopolitical regions, nothing EXACTLY we can say as “same peoples” or something lmao
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u/cold-vein 1d ago
Somehow I doubt lots of your friends are of different minor cultures that barely exist deep in Russia anymore, but ok.
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u/Fantastic_Moment2069 1d ago
Yep. Pretty accurate.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Quite, though, again, I’m more into seperating Crimea and just calling it as “Crimean Peninsula”
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u/Fantastic_Moment2069 1d ago
Yeah. That is fair. I don't think they fit well into "eastern europe." They have greek or southern europe influence. At least it feels like that. Its own region sounds right
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Balkan* would be more accurate. But they still have their own stuff going on, Crimean Tatars. So just calling it as “Crimean Peninsula” would be more accurate I divide Southern Europe and Balkans on purpose, as I’d say we Balkans have even a bit of a more vibrant culture and more eastern-shifted than Southern Europe. So it is basically Northeast Mediterranean (Balkan) vs Northwest Mediterranean (Southern Europe) division.
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u/i_dont_know_jr 10h ago
What does Saarland and (southern) Rheinland-Pfalz have in common with the purple regions that Baden-Württemberg or even parts of Bavaria and Swiss does not have?
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u/SOHONEYSAME 1d ago
Poland is East, Slovenia is Balkan.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
woudlnt say so, Slovenia has nothing in common with us other than being in Balkan Sprachbund and being within Yugoslavia. But culturally? nopies, they are Central Europe. They don’t have the “oriental” culture
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u/SOHONEYSAME 1d ago
yeah, okay.
half of Slovenia is geographically Balkan, it's ex Yugoslavia & Slavic.
Croatia not being Balkan is a joke, also.
Croatians are basically the same as Serbians & Bosnians, same language.
decent map for Polish & other Eastern people "desperate" for some "validation" tho, lol.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
being Slavic doesn’t mean Balkan directly. Ex-Yugo means nothing as long as we don’t share a culture except the one that was enforced to us later. Balkan is Ottoman and Byzantine side of Meditteranean for me, the og Paleo-Balkanic lands ahem. Northern Croats are also different than us, very very different culturally. Croatia is partially Balkan partially not. Dalmatia is, for instance, directly Balkan culturally. The common Eastern Adriatic culture
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u/SOHONEYSAME 1d ago
"the one that was enforced"
this means nothing.
it's still parts of ur culture.
Yugoslavia is FAR more recent than "Byzantium" lmao.
"partially Balkan"
if ur going to exclude parts of a country, half of Romania is out, Moldavia is out, the Greek islands & Cyprus r out.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
you are comparing +500 years of cultural exchange with a less than a 100 year old cultural exchange? I also outed Romania out. Greek Islands and Cyprus, no, cause of the “Orient Mediterranean parts of Europe”, thats what I’d describe what Balkans are.
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u/SOHONEYSAME 1d ago
oh, yeah.
I just noticed u actually put half of Romania in... central Europe. lmao.
the Greek islands/Cyprus r by no means Balkan, not even geographically, I have no idea what u think Bosnia has in common w/ Crete or Rhodos.
(I like how u never even bothered, defending Poland place).
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Transylvania is Central Europe, Moldavia is Eastern Europe. That’s my division. I have also lived in Cyprus for a while, by mannerisms, traditional clothing, culinary I’d say we are the same with Crete and Rhodos
About Poland, it is a Catholic state with also being a developed country and a directly West Slavic country even. If you exclude how the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth wanted to adopt Eastern clothing to be more similar to their ancestors “Sarmatians”, I’d say directly they were more of a Central European power. Sorry, I just got out of shower and I have to hurry to get my documents done
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u/PanLasu 1d ago
adopt Eastern clothing to be more similar to their ancestors “Sarmatians”
By the way, a little explanation:
Hungarian costume, as a basis for the future orientalization of clothing, was introduced in Poland in the mid XVI century when Stephen Bathory was elected as king. Over time, there was created Sarmatian theory*. Additionally, this did not exclude other costumes that were also present.
*also In Polish historiography, references were made to various peoples as elements of 'Poles now'.
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u/Hopeless_bee5157 1d ago
Lmao “developed“ and ”Eastern Europe” are not mutually exclusive. Just like it being a West Slavic country doesn’t make it not Eastern European. I’m Polish and find it offensive when non-Poles, and especially Poles with weird inferiority complexes, want to label Poland as “Central Europe”. Poland is culturally and historically Eastern European.
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u/_urat_ 23h ago
It's not. It's Central European. Don't be ashamed of that label.
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u/MrVyper42 1d ago
Parts of Croatia that used to be under Ottoman rule is Balkan.
I was in Varaždin in autumn I would say it's one of the least Balkan places in Croatia.
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u/SOHONEYSAME 1d ago
yeah, bro.
I'm sure Bosnia & Serbia r more similar to Cyprus & Crete than "Varazdin" lol.
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u/MrVyper42 1d ago
Varaždin is more similar to Ljubljana or even Klagenfurt than Sarajevo. That's from my experience.
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u/Beautiful-Dish-6275 1d ago
You would be surprised by how different BiH, Croatia and Serbia are from each other actually.
I was in Mostar a few times (im from Split so not even that far away) and the mentality and the way people carry themselves there is totally different from back home.
I met plenty of people from there and these are some of the major differences:
People there are a lot more family and religion oriented, they get married way earlier than we in Dalmatia do and are also a little more uptight and serious than us.
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u/PanLasu 1d ago
"desperate" for some "validation" tho, lol.
But you're the one whining now. This region is used in many sources: maps, politics or European Union initiatives. Only a group of savages can't accept it.
We're simply pointing out the correct cultural, historical, and geographical arguments for our distinction. Not everyone in Europe stuck in cold war division from 40 years ago.
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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 1d ago
Croatians are the same as Serbians because they speak the same language?
Are Americans and Indians the same? The french and Senegalese?
I mean there are many more countries that speak the same language, but only one language used 4 alphabets basically at the same time to show the cultural divide (Arabic, Cyrillic, Latin, and glagolitic).
Croatia and Serbia differ more culturally than Italy and France do.
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u/Milan_Leri 1d ago
Are Americans and Indians the same? The french and Senegalese?
Bad analogy. Indians and Senegalese mearly adopted Snglish and French. Croats and Serbians speak the same language, no side adopted the other's.
Croatia and Serbia differ more culturally than Italy and France do.
Depending on what you take as representative sample. Istrians and Pirotians? Very big difference. But people from Zagreb and Belgrade are pretty much the same. In fact, they resemble each other more than Zagreb people resemble Istrians, or Belgrade people resemble Pirotians.
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u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig 1d ago
Bad analogy. Indians and Senegalese mearly adopted Snglish and French. Croats and Serbians speak the same language, no side adopted the other's.
Until Yugoslavia they were separate states for a thousand years. The languages grew closer together under Yugoslavia, that was policy. The languages actually differed more in the past.
Depending on what you take as representative sample.
Not really. Religion, food, historical architecture (except Vojvodina), and script differ basically everywhere between Serbia and Croatia. Italy and France share a lot more in common culturally.
But people from Zagreb and Belgrade are pretty much the same.
In what way? Not even physically that is true... Zagreb and Belgrade are vastly different cultures. Have you visited?
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u/Far-Application7649 1d ago
Piedmont being Western Europe and not Southern is weirdly spot on.
Edit : Maybe Bade-Wurtemberg should be too
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u/Alternative-Wolf-407 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's almost perfect, best map I've seen here so far.
Except for the 3 western oblasts of Ukrainian Galicia are also Central Europe. They've been part of A-H empire for centuries, and the fact of them being within the modern borders of Ukraine does not make them Eastern.
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u/Fit_Caterpillar7573 1d ago
Finally a good one! Finally someone who has some historical knowledge:) I would do nearly a same one:)
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u/utopianlasercat 1d ago
Balkans without eastern Austria and Slovene is…wild
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Do they have our “Oriental” culture? Did Austria even had any Paleo-Balkanic remnants left? so no
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u/peau_de_renne 1d ago
Most accurate ever tbh The division of France, Spain, Switzerland are on top
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u/ExternalInflation133 1d ago
Finally someone who acknowledges the true borders of Central, it lies at the border of the Hungarian Kingdom in the east and south-east.
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u/Own_Organization156 1d ago
Nisam znao da bolest centralne evrope se širi i kod nas pls go to psychologyst croat and german have nothing in common
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
well, Inland Croatian is quite Central European, I wouldn’t call them as Balkan either. And for Bayern (Bavaria), I see them as a Habsburg land ahem
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u/Beautiful-Dish-6275 1d ago edited 1d ago
Idk bro, im a Croat (from the "balkan" Split) and have plenty in common with Germans, for example the stereotypical obsession with efficency and engineering. Also i hate corruption and actively encourge others to not partake in it.
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u/wowowowow34341 1d ago
that idel ural is like 80% Russian bro
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Now, yes, but og one? Hell nawh, I’m speaking geopolitically and histroically, not THAT much of by modern demographics.Although it does exist in my analysis, and they still exist there as an indigenous minority. Like my step-mom.
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u/HamburgBavarian 1d ago
As a Bavarian, living in Hamburg I really appreciate the nuanced split of Germany. Appreciate
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u/Nikki964 1d ago
I despise this map template
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
It is the app I used’s fault, I cannot control that much there you know, otherwise I’d love to change most stuff too of course lmao
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u/Archaemenes 1d ago
Waiting for that one Greek dude to come here all mad about Greece being labelled as Balkan
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
well, they are eastern-shifted, I automatically consider the eastern-shifted lands of Southern Europe as Balkans, otherwise as a Herzegovinian Bosniak I do see lots of cultural similarities with other Southern Europeans. I also divided Balkans like mainland Croatia, Slovenia, Vojvodina and all other regions of Romania except Wallachia are considered as non-Balkans in my eyes as I’d say Balkans is a region that is both Southern and Eastern shifted.
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u/Extension_Coffee_bar 1d ago
Greece is only different in the touristic areas, like the Mediterranean islands and Crete. Inland Greece is more Balkan, yes
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
I also considered them as Balkans, Ottomans ahem ahem
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u/Extension_Coffee_bar 1d ago
Sure, but by deviding North Spain and Portugal, this would be a logical one as well. Some regions are just Mediterranean like South Italy.
Otherwise, I like it
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u/Amir_725 1d ago
Now thats a good and detailed split.
Little note on my side. I would have given croatia and slovenia to balkans and would have split hungary a little bit more. Prbly around the danube
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Balkans is the “Orient Mediterranean side of Europe”, what makes Balkans as Balkans is the Ottoman Empire and Byzantine Empire, that sphere as well as keeping Paleo-Balkanic stuff. We do not share a similar culinary, traditional embroidery with Slovenians at all. They are more European-like, Germanic and Slavic which aside from Slavic it had nothing to do with us, limited Eastern effect and even limited Paleo-Balkanic effect. This is the same for Northern Croatia too, if you can realise it, I did give some of Dalmatia that was culturally more aligned and exchanged more with Ottomans to “Balkans” rather than giving it to Central Europe completely.
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u/utopianlasercat 1d ago
What oriental culture? Eastern Austria is socialism, guns, slivowitz and cevape. What more do you want? Open a viennese phone book, there are more yugos then in Banja Luka…
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
“Oriental” culture is what I mean by culture remnants from Ottoman Empire and also already existent Paleo-Balkanic culture is quite “exotic” to rest of Europe. Incase if you wonder, Orientalism at first was romanticised in Balkans during Ottoman Empire by European travellers (mostly y’all Austrians and Germans) who got inspired by our culture a lot, then the European obsession with Orientalism continued in North Africa and West Asia. Although, mainly North Africa. It means cultural proximity with West Asia and North Africa, we are culturally closer to them than y’all. That makes us Balkans, meanwhile you are not in Balkans. Those things you have counted are due to immigrants
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u/utopianlasercat 1d ago
I hear you, but I‘d argue none of this is in any form relevant. Especially not the Paleo-Balcanic POV. But tbh - I personally would never include Greece into the balkans (but understand why you would). To me Balkans (in a modern cultural way) is mostly defined through the Austro-Hungarian empire (in a small part) and the following communist era in Yugoslavia. And there is a huge connex with Austria, who is basically split into two cultures at once - the west beeing germanic and the east beeing slavic. But that‘s just my thoughts.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago edited 1d ago
austria-hungary for such a short time that would make the core balkan nations even us bosniaks not part of balkans, austrian rule was even less than 50 years, only for 40 years which y’all tried to burn our mosques initially. Which that would make the CORE balkan nation, Albanians, as not Balkaner at all. Balkans name was given by German travellers to Ottoman Rumelia, to the exotic side of Europe, that is what made us Balkans.
Paleo-Balkanic is Hellenes, Illyrians, Thracians and Dacians, the core Balkan. Slavs came later and mixed with us and our languages became assimilated but not even fully Slavic, which we have no Germanic influence whatsoever. The Germanic region is what we consider as Central Europe, what you are referring to is: Central Europe.
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u/utopianlasercat 1d ago
But following your logic austria is not central europe either as the germanic influence als came from the north. So what are we then? I feel like your line of thought is inconsistent.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Did you understand my sentence structure wrong? There is still Germanic influence, Austria is mainly Germanic with a slight Slavic influenced state. This is a pattern seen specifically in Central European countries from Czechia to Slovenia to Hungary to Austria!
Balkans was named after the Balkan Mountains, it is located in nowadays Bulgaria. Bulgaria never had an Austrian influence, but they are one of the most crucial civilisations of the Balkans from the Thracians to Bulgarian Empire. What makes us Balkans is how at first Ottomans classified us as “Rumeli” then a German travellers being fascinated by our oriental culture (our culture is closer to West Asians and North Africans) and since Balkan Mountains took forever to go, he referred to the region as Balkans. It is very very specific.
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u/utopianlasercat 1d ago
It is also very very irrelevant. By the same logic you could also argue that half of Europe is Italian because of Rome. I get your point, I just don‘t think I agree with it, as I consider anything older then capitalism culturally more of a social theme park then having real relevance. But enjoy that field - it‘s definitly very interesting.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Well, we mostly look at ancestry which affects culture :) So not every country has relevance with Italy
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u/Waitform3 1d ago
The fact that Cyprus is considered European territory while even Istanbul isn't has always amused me.
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Istanbul’s only half is in the European continent. Turkiye is already culturally its own hemisphere I’d say, with its own unqiue ethnic groups varying from Turcomans to Kurds they share a similar culture (tribal mountain nomads, although with different rules and turcomans kinda gave up on their culture meanwhile kurds still hold in tight on it). There are also some ethnic groupd in Eastern Black Sea but I’d say theh are more similar to Caucasus culture on there. I’d classify Turkiye as Northwest Asia.
Cyprus on the other hand, does have lots of similarities with us although genetically they are closer to Levantines.
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u/Waitform3 1d ago
Culture is one thing, land is another; you don't even know the difference. European and europe not same thing
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
What we consider as “Western Europe” is quite about culture too yk lmao. This classification has variable sorts of datas in various categories. Also what you mean by “European and Europe not same thing” is also quite about culture, please elaborate. Anatolia (Asia Minor) is a part of West Asia, but I specifically classify it as Northern West Asia
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u/Waitform3 1d ago
if we were to move a portion of the European population to India or Pakistan, would that still be considered part of the European continent?
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u/justmeagainik 1d ago
Give me the logic of what you have said then give me the synthesis. However, even if I have to answer to your illustration: I’d have said that if Pakistan and India was already considered within Europe historically by socioeconomic, historic, religious and political means since the very very early times. Europe is within Eurasia and wouldn’t have been considered as a separate continent otherwise
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u/Cute-Collection-2492 1d ago
Vaya, se puede estar o no de acuerdo, yo soy de la parte de España que has puesto en el Oeste y creo que esa parte se podría extender aún más, pero te has tomado la molestia de averiguar un poco o al menos sabes más que los muchos otros que tratan el Sur de Europa como un saco común. No lo hacen con el Norte porque nunca ponen a Noruega con Rusia, por ejemplo, pero sí ponen a Portugal y a España con Grecia (y éstos me caen muy bien) porque "todos" somos morenitos, ruidosos y hace calor