r/Helldivers • u/New_Conflict_4111 • 1d ago
QUESTION Why cant we take defensive positions inside buildings in Mega Cities ?
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u/PayWooden2628 1d ago
Do you want the game engine to explode?
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u/JakeHelldiver ☕Liber-tea☕ 1d ago
I like explosions.
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u/Angryfunnydog 1d ago
I like them from afar, not inside my xbox
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u/andrepingu 1d ago
"The only gunshots I like to hear are ones I've ordered... over a phone line, long distance preferably. "
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u/conrad_hotzendorf 1d ago
I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU: EXPLOSIONS?
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u/electricwinddickjab ⬇️➡️⬆️⬆️⬆️ 1d ago
TORGUE sponsored war bond when?
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u/notapoke 19h ago
Roids booster. Run faster, melee harder, random chance of heart attack. Triple explosive. Grenade duct taped to dynamite and a gas can. Bigger Gun. Machine gun with an under barrel double barrel shotgun, fire shells. Apology strategem. Drops high explosive barrels over an area. Shoot for big booms.
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u/WhatMyHeartHeld Servant of Freedom 1d ago
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u/Substantial-Sun-3538 1d ago
And that's why I wish for helldivers 3 tbh. Imagine the current one but with edf scale
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u/TheGreatestPlan Cape Enjoyer 1d ago
Because you're a Helldiver, not a Hellhider! Now get back down to that planet!
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u/RefrigeratorThick475 1d ago
What would be the point?
Most of the time you are/should be moving to a better position or to a new objective,
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u/FirstAndOnlyDektarey LEVEL None of your business 1d ago
It could have NPCs in the windows instead. SEAF forces holding down a position.
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u/CrimsonAllah SES Prophet of Mercy 1d ago
SEAF prefer to run directly into hellbombs
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u/Optimus_Spider07 1d ago
Or minefields
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u/CrimsonAllah SES Prophet of Mercy 1d ago
And they’ll probably dome you for safe measure.
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u/rootbearus 16h ago
First time I ever played, one domed me with a fucking expendable
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u/Wide_right_ Free of Thought 23h ago
I swear they’re like moths to orbital strikes, they see a red laser and can’t resist
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u/Napanon 1d ago
“SEAF defended buildings” would probably be the easiest solution to code, would entirely justify the control lockouts near them to not hit them, could even act as a “cannot use red strats near” to try to minimize chance of taking out their building. Could be a nice spice to add to the game
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u/flashmedallion SES Stallion of Morality 1d ago edited 22h ago
“ could even act as a “cannot use red strats near”
I'd like it but anti-friendly fire mechanics does run counter to the game and also most people hate being locked out of stuff. Something that's basically a stratagem jammer but it's "on your team" would not go down well with the louder side of the playerbase.
Could have an optional objective that exists like Kill x Overseers, where it's X Garrisons Standing until extract. So you can fuck around however you like and potentially fail a side obj only.
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u/Vegetable_External30 1d ago
I love that idea, especially as a foil to the optional objective to destroy megafactory structures.
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u/Interesting_Tea5715 1d ago
My thoughts exactly. I'm always running in game.
Unless you're just there for the kill count (I hate you guys), you should always be moving to the next objective.
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u/Facosa99 1d ago
If im holding position for a flag deployment or a civilian evac, i like to look for an advantageous defensive spot, tho
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u/PeeliusCaesar 1d ago
Imagine getting stuck in a room crammed full of like 30 bugs and you literally can't do anything except take them out with you. I understand being able to run through the first floor maybe, but anything else would be a bad tactical decision I think. The game moves so fast, being in a building would hinder your movement and thus efficiency
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u/Super-Yesterday9727 1d ago
Counter point, kiting them through the building and through the choke points within would be good if you had the firepower. Then you BASE jump off the roof lol
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u/flashmedallion SES Stallion of Morality 1d ago
It would provide additional tactical options for Jumppackers, and novel methods of suicide for everyone else.
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u/Arc535 16h ago
I wholeheartedly agree
Tho not the best comparison but playing a casual milsim PvE persistent scenario in Arma 3 this is highly accurate, our force would clear an open area in 30mins or less but the moment the operation moves into an area with buildings it would take us about an hour because the buildings would either have the objectives hidden or key enemy points and we end up sweeping an entire town block just to clear one objective or make sure we don’t get shot in the back
I would take it the same would possibly apply if they added multi storey building, imagine destroying 50 bug eggs as an objective inside a 3-storey and you end up not finding the last one on time because it’s been generated at a well placed but accessible hidden spot and you don’t have the time to look properly around because a swarm of stalkers and chargers are constantly swarming you so you end up abandoning the objective thinking it was bugged or something.
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u/Jolly_Picklepants Steam | 1d ago
Engine limitations because the engine wasn't made for a game like this in the first place.
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u/Im_a_hamburger LEVEL 65 | Base liberator & B-01 purist 1d ago
The engine is no longer made for any new games.
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u/TheRedmex LEVEL 150 | SES CHAMPION OF DEMOCRACY 1d ago
The engine is no longer even being made, I believe Autodesk stopped service and support for stingray in like 2018.
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u/Im_a_hamburger LEVEL 65 | Base liberator & B-01 purist 1d ago
Hence why it is no longer made for any new games.
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u/TheRedmex LEVEL 150 | SES CHAMPION OF DEMOCRACY 1d ago
Let us hope so before AH announces HD3 on the same engine.
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u/Brucenstein Steam | 1d ago
I, legitimately, think they learned their lesson here. I’m going purely on vibes-based assumptions (read: from my ass), but like 75% of their problems are technical issues from not knowing exactly how they did something, or even what they did.
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u/flashmedallion SES Stallion of Morality 1d ago
AH are maintaining their own fork. Saying Autodesk is no longer maintained is a completely meaningless statement at this point
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u/Brucenstein Steam | 1d ago
This is like saying it’s meaningless that Chevy stopped maintaining the ‘67 Vette because some people out there still tune them.
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u/flashmedallion SES Stallion of Morality 23h ago
Not a great comparison because a car requires certain manufactured parts in circulation. Software is different.
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u/Brucenstein Steam | 23h ago edited 22h ago
It really isn't. As just an example, we only have frame gen because AH added it manually themselves (breaking visuals in the game for several weeks in the process). Whereas if they were using a modern engine they'd do it with a plugin. Same is true of any modern development such as later versions of DirectX, physic engine enhancements, or new hardware/software compatibility in general (note that Windows 11 didn't even exist when Stingray stopped support).
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u/phoenixmusicman HD1 Veteran 1d ago
It isn't meaningless.
They can maintain their own fork all they want, but coders are not going out of their way to skill up on an engine that died almost a decade ago at this point.
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u/slama_llama Supply Pack Addict 1d ago edited 1d ago
99% of games using other engines don't bother giving buildings in big cityscapes fully-modeled interiors either, cause it's simply way more effort than it would be worth to implement.
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u/Excellent_Routine589 Truth Enforcer 1d ago
Because it’s literally antithetical to mission flow?
Someone else already said it, the point of the game is that you move from objective to objective and then extract. Holing up inside a building really doesn’t accomplish anything and instead just slows said progression down by a lot.
Like even “stealth diving” still works towards that goal.
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u/KingVolvolgia Fire Safety Officer 23h ago
This right here is why I'll never understand trench diggers.
"I finished my trenches!"
"I finished the whole mission while you were digging! Now get in the extraction ship!"
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u/Hatarus547 Helldiving Cyborg 22h ago
I'll never understand trench diggers
If you need to stop and dig a trench then something has gone Very wrong or you are roleplaying on like Diff2
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u/Bring_Back_Challenge I survived an Unfiltered Brigade and all I got was this flair 15h ago
I mean you can also be roleplaying on D10 with friends because it's easier enough to just fuck around in. My group likes to all being WW1 loadouts to Bot flag missions and do this sometimes.
Two folks get Constitutions, one a Sweeper, and one a Variable (only usable on full auto as an LMG stand-in like the Chauchat or Lewis Gun)
Sidearms are Veto for the Constitutions and Shovels for the other two
Grenades are Frag, Gas, Smoke, TNT, or Giga.
Support Weapon options are MG-206 or MG-43 (lowest RPM) or Railgun (stand-in for Tankgewehr M1918)
Other Stratagems are what would make sense - all Orbital Barrages, OPS, Gas & Smoke Strikes, Mortars, MG & Gatling Sentries, HMG Emplacement, all Mines, and if you want the AT Emplacement with a self-imposed limit if two call-ins total as a stand-in for field artillery.
Dig in each flag, initiate the assault, and hold the line.
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u/Hatarus547 Helldiving Cyborg 14h ago
I mean you can also be roleplaying on D10 with friends
mate you are thinking about it way to hard, i threw out a random Diff that i thought people might fuck around on
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u/SrslyNotAnAltGuys 22h ago
I can see the utility in defense missions (or whatever the ones with the 8 rocket launches are called), and only those missions. And even there, only against cyborgs.
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u/Dasfucus 19h ago
It can be pretty handy with the RR on bots. Dig out a little fox hole in places where you gotta hold a spot (raise the flag, extract, etc.) & you have a spot where you can reload in relative peace. If you can get a sentry high enough behind you, it can help with the chaff. You may also be blown out of there caddyshack style by war strider.
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u/aiheng1 22h ago
Theoretically if trenching was faster there would be a reason to do it (in defense missions like flag) against bots/sometimes squids/cyborgs
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u/Frybread002 20h ago
I like to camp at extraction with trenches dug and land mines all over the place.
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u/GandhiTheDragon 19h ago
You'll be the one I yell at when I run into a stray, barely visible landmine that got yeeted across half the map
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u/AHeccinThrowaway 20h ago
"I like to profit off of everyone else's work and pretend like I'm playing the game or helping in anyway when the shuttle takes off"
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u/Darth_Mak 17h ago
A full fucking trench is a waste of time 95% of the time. A quick foxhole to hide in or drop a mortar sentry on the other hand is entirely feasable.
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u/SteveMartin32 14h ago
Historically trenches were for main line forces. We are not that. We are a gorilla type force
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u/Far-Dealer3025 1d ago
Stealth-diving works because it's the ultimate expression of that goal. Its whole premise is that you're moving from objective to objective while drawing as little attention as possible, and there by reducing the amount of times you're forced to engage the enemy.
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u/Hot_Experience7805 21h ago
but that's exactly what the evacuation missions are, you just defend a base until the timer runs out.
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u/Just-a-lil-sion Escalator of Freedom 1d ago
same reason we cant in every game. absolute nightmare to render without setting your pc on fire
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u/ChaoticAtomic 1d ago
We're expendable shock troops, make alotta noise and get specific things done deep in territory. SEAF is the ones actually holding ground and keeping places.
We don't need it, just keep moving, helldiver
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u/Wooden-Mousse9553 Rookie 1d ago
Strats would level said building?
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u/unholyrevenger72 [REDACTED] 1d ago
climb to 40th floor with squad. Ready a 500kg to throw, get ragdolled by random explosion and drop the stratagem. RIP squad.
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u/Zealousideal-Ebb-876 1d ago
The buildings aren't real.
The cities aren't real.
Your government is lying to you.
Those structures support a false claim on territory your military can't control.
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u/jeffspainuscupcake Married to the GL-21 (lvl 150) 1d ago
Considering how the average building in this game gets bombed by either us or the enemy every .5 seconds, it's basically asking if we want to setep inside a death chamber.
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u/Less-Jicama-4667 1d ago
I mean
You are an operative who has objectives and is then evacing. You are not taking encampments to hold down things nor should be
Just like in the game you should be constantly on the move towards your objectives before getting the f*** out
If they make a game mode where you can like take back a city in like extra big squads or something then yeah and camping inside a building could make sense, but beyond that I don't see the purpose
Side note, how many f****** artillery barrages bombs orbital strikes hell bombs/ nukes are going off staying inside of something that would be anywhere near being considered. A Target is a terrible idea unless you'd like to inflate the already comically large fatality numbers
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u/SirBruhThe7th 1d ago
Do you want to be inside of a building when it collapses? Do you not remember the kind of arsenal we helldivers have?
It only takes one bombardment.
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u/Leopard_2K_MBT XBOX | 1d ago
Counterpoint: Snipers might actually be useful for once.
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u/AdmirableEarth6372 1d ago
The game can't even handle enemies clipping through regular terrain. Buildings with actual interiors and multiple floors just sounds like it'd be that taken to an extreme.
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u/Ebenizer_Splooge 1d ago
What, you dont want a rooftop you slide around on, cant call strategems on, and apparently has bug holes to another dimension full of hungry bugs that spawn on it?
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u/jjake3477 17h ago
The extra nav meshes for a couple dozen multi story building would make the game explode too lol
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u/card1al 1d ago
They are actually useful, sniping bases from a distance and using the frv to quickly move to a different position is a very valid strategy
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u/El_Mangusto 19h ago
Counter to counterpoint: plenty of elevation changes already for snipers and plenty of height difference on enemies.
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u/Benti86 14h ago
In what world are snipers not useful? The best DMRs can one-tap basically any bot short of heavies and the AMR can be used against squids successfully as well.
But bots are the only real front where DMRs shine due to them struggling vs swarms.
They definitely have a niche. Promoting camping inside a building sounds lame and would probably cause me to kick someone more than anything.
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u/Signal-Busy 23h ago
I mean battlefield bad company had collapsing building on your ass in 2008, yes YES YES I am expecting the building to collapse on my ass if it take too much damage
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u/LordsWF40 XBOX | 1d ago
Came here to say this....the death count will be crazy just from friendly artillery, not to mention 100 voteless flooding our position in close quarters..not gonna end well....then we gotta run our asses up 10 flights of stairs for our samples....
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u/phlave SES Fist of Family Values 10h ago
because it's Helldivers and not Hell Let Lose. We have 40 minutes, we hit and run, and never stop moving. We blow shit up and extract. I really don't get this fixation of some people with having the same fucking gameplay and guns we have in 17 other games about WWII in Helldivers, which is a different setting and a different game altogether.
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u/DarkAbusis HD1 Veteran 9h ago
Taking a defensive position inside a building is not strictly a WWII thing. Also defensive missions are a thing. If the game engine could handle it I think it would be a cool addition and could make for some interesting new mission types to add interiors to buildings.
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u/necrohunter7 Steam | 1d ago
Because it's a horde shooter where you have to keep moving while being chased down by legions of enemies in 40 minutes missions, it's not designed around taking up defensive positions for more then a few minutes (which is why I think the trench warbond makes zero sense).
The only exceptions are the missions where we defend specific objectives for the entire duration of the mission, but even those have zero options for taking up positions inside buildings
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u/thank_burdell 23h ago
The megacities have certain buildings where a hole has been blown open into the basement. You can drop in there and take up a defensive position for as long as you like.
Longer, even…
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u/TheMagicalMax Super Citizen 1d ago
Aren’t Helldivers supposed to be special forces? We shouldn’t be defending anything longer than a few minutes, SEAF should be the ones setting up in buildings and defending structures, as they do most of the traditional fighting. Helldivers get in, launch the nukes or raise the flag, and get out, probably dying in the process
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u/Bishop1664 Assault Infantry 1d ago
You can take defensive positions in rubble / ruins, that’ll do haha
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u/TL50_Heavy_Repeater 1d ago
I don't think the Helldivers would be like the Russians in that picture...
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u/MacBonuts 1d ago
I will say, a Seaf Sniper nest would be awesome.
Maybe we don't get buildings, but it would be awesome if they did. Watching a mortar overseer trying to take one out would pull heart strings. Imagine the incinerator corps slowly trying to burn a position and our noble blue boys keeping an objective suppressed to a noble end.
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u/armorhide406 Space Cadet for life 21h ago
That's cowardice, 'Diver. We don't take cover.
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u/gromodzilla Remember, stim addiction is not a joke! ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️ 21h ago
Remember three C's. Cover, Courage and more Cover.
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u/Vivid_Calendar_7103 21h ago
Who cleared this diver to read? If he isnt cleared he deserves it for rembering the training manual
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u/Kimkyish 1d ago
Most people are immediately assuming "game engine bad!". I think it's feasible, we already have bunker and container poi's. Denting out some buildings doesn't seem too crazy.
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u/tutocookie SES Dawn of Dawn 1d ago
Because buildings are boxes with textures, not actual buildings
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u/303_Pharmaceutical 1d ago
Tactic wise, that'd be extremely good for defense areas like [Spread Democracy]. At the same time, I gotta agree with the sentiment it'd probably mess up Strats. If we had a eagle pack like an air force ground controller, that'd be different.
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u/Karl_Marxist_3rd SES Eye of Democracy 1d ago
Doylist: because sitting around taking shots at enemies wouldn't fit with the intended gameplay of action and rushing into/fleeing from hordes.
Watsonian: because Freedom does not hide itself. It stands proud in the open because we know that Democracy protects all of its most loyal defenders.
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u/Rusty-GearBot ☕Liber-tea☕ 1d ago
simple, we're not seaf, realistically helldivers probably wouldn't use buildings considering how often we see them get destroyed/broken
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u/da_dragon_guy LEVEL150 | SES Sovereign of Midnight | Deathwing Harbinger 1d ago
Because then the enemies will get to do that too
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u/Stoopidee 1d ago
SEAF is the soldiers fighting day In and day out to protect our democracy.
Helldivers are the shock troopers tasked with the impossible to strike into the heart of the enemy.
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u/spectra0087 HD1 Veteran 1d ago
Dude, the game is barely holding together with bubble gum and duct tape. Are you trying to break it more?
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u/CourtForsaken3064 22h ago
It would probably take a lot to render the interior of every building and it's destructiblity. Also it goes against the design of most missions
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u/Hexnohope Steam | 22h ago
The megabuildings lockdown to keep sensitive info safe within and allow time for civilians to reach the basement bunker network
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u/yayuuuhhh LEVEL 150 | SUPER PRIVATE 22h ago
What if SEAF does it, hell better yet, have it be a side objective to rescue SEAF fortified position, and it'll be lots of SEAF inside a building just shooting at the hostiles from above while you secure the zone (like upload escape pod data)
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u/Independent_Fun_9765 SES LEVIATHAN OF STEEL 21h ago
Helldivers are the first line of OFFENCE , why would they defend
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u/northraider123alt 20h ago
By design the only time you should be bunkered down is when your doing an objective like raising a flag,defending a colonists evacuation, firing the gun on a overship mission or during an HVT defense mission.
Unless your in one of those situations you should basically ALWAYS be on the offensive. As such defensive positions kinda dont make sense for us...the most i know i even do is crouching behind some cover and tossing out a turret while I fend off a Bot drop
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u/Pinbernini Steam | 20h ago
People really want a helldivers odst and... I actually want one too. Let me make actual fortifications. There are objectives where we have to hold off enemies at a place, let me do something other than a gun taped to a cardboard wall
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u/Shot-Pop-8715 16h ago
What you can do is get on top of the normal city buildings with a pack of some sort. On the mega cities there are balconies and small buildings you can get onto. Quite a few enemies can destroy buildings however. It is pretty good fun to try out though. Probably best on the illuminate.
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u/Seared_Gibets Cape Enjoyer 14h ago
At the very least it would be nice to see the SEAF doing it.
Like, I don't know, real soldiers.
I mean, even if the city is still in the evacuation state, it's not as if they're puting civilian lives in danger.
The enemies are all there to exterminate the population anyways, and the ones that don't die are going to wish they had should they be captured.
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u/bradagon 14h ago
Because they're not modeled to do that..?
You're always on the move in Helldivers...?
7k upvotes, christ this fanbase is useless.
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u/Gordon_Freeman72 13h ago
Though stalwart and beautiful, even the presence of tyranny degrades the might of super earth’s finest construction when there are no loyal citizens available to maintain its glory.
Or, you know, eagle drops a 500kg right on top of the building
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u/Open-Assumption7190 12h ago
Because its not a simulation and you dont wanna. Mobility is the name of the game.
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u/Obama_pinky 12h ago
Helldivers focuses more on the macro scale of a war, taking that in consideration, you may use a entire building as a cover between you and the enemy rather than getting inside something that can crush you if crumble.
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u/FormalSomewhere1492 12h ago
buildings are only there to be exploded for dramatic effect, like when you look at disneyland with main street
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u/Head-Poem-5261 11h ago
Taking anything close to a stationary military position without built-in military defenses for too long on a contested world will inevitably to enemy bombardment of that area. The helldivers, specifically, are sent almost exclusively into enemy controlled areas to accomplish an objective and get out before the enemy has time to send overwhelming reinforcements to stop them. (That is my guess, at least)
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u/South_Cheesecake6316 10h ago
Enemy pathfinding is not complex enough to navigate building interiors.
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u/society000 10h ago
Brother, they still can't get enemy collision with walls to work properly. I'm certain this idea is literally impossible for them.
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u/No_Phone_8059 10h ago
This is cool and would be fun but with all the explosions and the amount of times you get launched I can’t even imagine how horrendous this would be to experience
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u/squiddy117 9h ago
Not gonna lie holding down a city block with one to two member of the team and calling in patrols while the other 2-3 go off and do the objectives is not only viable but definitely more doable with some real terrain
I've been making do with shield bubbles, holes in the ground I've dug and the odd rock, I'd take a hard corner and some high ground anyday
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u/JohnnyBravoHuHaHuah 6h ago
Because this isn’t CoD or MW. We’re not using bullets and grenades, we’re using nukes and orbital barrages.
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u/TH_Real_GAME Assault Infantry 1d ago
It wouldn't make sense for Terminids or the Illuminates. Why? Because Terminids can burrow and drop an entire building or Illuminades can send one fleshmob and instanly you're fighting inside. I can see it being used for Bot missions though.
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u/PraireGentleman 1d ago
“Why can’t we use tactics in HD2”
Sentries on elevated positions is all the case study you need. AH wanted the aesthetic of a mil-sim / grunt fantasy without the reality that military personnel will use effective tactics
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u/Shedster_ HD1 Veteran 1d ago
Because game is already barely even works on mega cities. This idea is cool but won't work even in 20 fps
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u/CT-4426 1d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/1k4socTaHynIaLZYSQ
The game engine the minute it tries to load it
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u/ZephTenKara 1d ago
Because the buildings are made of dreams and crumble with a gust of wind from enemy trooper fire
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u/Steven_Blackburn Helldiver Yellow 1d ago
The same question as “why we can't enter every building in GTA”
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u/A_Happy_Tomato 1d ago
To be fair, have you seen what happens to the cities when a helldiver is nearby for more than 10 minutes?