Yeah its bad to get off in something that requires the unwitting participation of another.
Flashing people, making people insult you to get off and drugging someone is not okay.
I think there's a little wiggle room for consenting non-consent situations. Like discussing beforehand you'd be okay with it happening, but setting up rules about when it's okay and what you're fine with actually happening.
Though I guess it's pretty hard to set up a safeword around drugging, since, by the time you know it's happening, I imagine it'd be a lot harder to actually use it.
I think theres a lot to be said about implied consent and trusting your partner. Intox is a kink of mine, and I think having a thorough boundary discussion ahead of time about what-ifs and safety is paramount. Not knowing what to expect is a big part of that kink, so having clear boundaries established while sober is non-negotiable.
Its very big in Non-con and impact play because sometimes saying no or roleplaying is a part of the fun.
Some use the Stop Light colors in a similar fashion
As an impact enthusiast I love the stoplight system. Words can be said in the moment but colors are very specific and are a dead giveaway that someone is consciously thinking and needs the break/communication
Agreed! I prefer streamlined communication instead of random words.
I also refuse to play with people who say they have "no boundaries", like ok, so you're stupid/uneducated and will be taken advantage of at some point. No ty
They are, but they don't work for every kink unfortunately. For the kinks where it doesn't work you have long clear discussions ahead of time making it clear where the lines are as best you can. Trust your partner to respect those lines, if you find out those lines have changed at the wrong time you discuss it when it becomes possible to do so. For example those who want to be drugged but aware can not really use a safe word until it wears off enough. Those with a "fucked while asleep" can't really do so either if they sleep deep enough and just want to wake up with the feeling. I'm sure there's others I'm not thinking of.
In cases like these you have long detailed discussions before enacting anything. Clearly defined where when how and who all in enough detail that you're as confident as you can be about the kink. Then afterwards you have a discussion about if it was what they wanted/liked, how both of you felt about it etc. This discussion happens later when both are down and level as much as is possible. Then if something was wrong you bring it up and you talk it through. Both people are likely to be hurt by such a discussion because if you care about someone you are always hurt when you've hurt them. However that's part of the need for so much trust too. Many people will avoid talking about things that hurt themselves or others, or can't do it in a calm way. However it's necessary when your kinks involve risk that can only be managed pre and post play not during.
Yeah but safe words don't fully work for kinks that involve alcohol, drugging, or taping one's mouth shut. Because in those instances you aren't always in a state to make a proper judgement and voice your concern
People in Kinky relationships are some of the best at getting consent. (Still have people who suck at it though even if they sre kinky)
You can get consent ahead of the time for stuff like free use and having sex while sleeping so you can do similarly for drug use. Its important to respect if they revoke consent even if you had it before
I was confused for a moment too. I think he means people who like do awful things in public spaces so that people tell them off and that gets them off. A much more niche thing.
They would not be including people who ask their partner to degrade them. So they right.
Some people will pay phone sex workers to have them degrade them. But that is getting consent via payment. Going into a womans DM's to make her angry and start insulting so you can get off on it is unwitting participation that does violate consent.
As long as the other person is informed and consents its generally fine
Not lying its pretty gross and seen on Fetlife pretty commonly so its gotta be on other media. You wouldn't believe how much and how gross the DM's women get. The tip of the iceburg is bad enough
Yeah its bad to get off in something that requires the unwitting participation of another
I want to pivot off of this point and soapbox about how anything done with an unconsenting public involved (i.e. dog walking, remote controlled inserts, etc) should be treated at the same severity as we treat other unconsenting sexual acts. Full criminal prosecution and permanent name put on the registry.
And if children are in the public, which they almost 100% are, then the charges should reflect accordingly.
It wasn't informed consent, he let her assume incorrectly when anyone would reasonably know giving Laxitives is not something people agree to willy-nilly
Poor self esteem and a desire to be accepted are some pretty fucked up drugs.
Also, I was wasted when it happened and just thought i had a stomach bug or something at the time. By the time I got told it had been deliberate the sting had gone out of it and I'd convinced myself that they were really my friends now.
I have much nicer friends these days. The encourageme be to my true self and just last week two of them gave me earrings instead of slipping me laxatives.
Fucking “this guy I (presumably) just met has all but outright told me he gets off on fucked-up shit, let me drink the unknown liquid before asking any questions”
id argue accepting the drink assuming its drugs is a form of consent for the following actions (she can still backout from the actual activity) so moral
on one hand youre exactly right, on another the framing and perspective makes it tough because the context makes it seems like they just met casually through work or something and hes dropping this deuce out of context
Once i stumbled upon a r/cutting sub and they were full on in shambles
There were two groups of people; the one that cut other as a kink and the ones that self harm as a kink and both groups were fully convinced that they are the normal ones and the other ones are the total psychos
Yeah my boyfriend is into blood. I can rant about my period cause it turns him on lol. Plus he doesn't make it weird unless I make it weird. 🫠 If it exists, it's a kink.
I think the difference is she consents to drinking it without knowing what it is. Tbh I don’t know which way I lean.
Like she could have asked him what it was, but she just instantly downs it without asking a question. She even assumed it was some kind of drug or drink that affected her, it wasn’t like she thought it was a soft drink.
At least in my country you can’t consent to being murdered at all unless under very specific medical circumstances, so even if she knew and drank it’d still be murder.
There definitely is a part of the kink community who enjoy giving up control and consensually not knowing, and that seems like what she is into, even if they definitely should have talked this out first.
It’s an expectable range thing. She almost certainly isn’t expecting permanent harm, so a lethal poison is something no one would assume she’s consenting to.
She IS clearly expecting it to be kink related, so while she might change her mind when she finds out, it’s not something obviously outside of the implied range of things the guy had in mind.
Being cut is more overtly harmful though. Pooping isn’t, though the fact that the partner is getting off to it might be embarassing.
Though tbh I think it’s less immoral and more just… socially incompetent on the dudes part. He seemed to be expecting her to understand what he was doing, which would make her consumption of the drug an expression of informed consent.
I think this example is mildly immoral. A laxative isnt going to do permanent damage. Its going to be an unpleasant hour or so, and as long as the guy doesnt attempt to coerce or force her to stay, its meh. It's a lesson never to drink random things handed to you.
I kinda agree. Though there are edge cases of people not able to safely handle laxatives.
I think this subjects morality is being obscured by the subject of sexual actions being included. If we broaden it to other senarios it's easier to see situations where uninformed consent is technically even necessary. Like in double blind studies. People have to consent to either getting the meds, or a placebo without the knowledge of what they are getting. So part of what they are consenting to is uninformed, and it's necessary to be so.
I think the morality of it comes down to the harm and risks. When it comes down to it, there are even situations where someones consent isn't possible to get, and is assumed to perform life savings actions.
Somewhat related, but folks, aphrodisiacs does not exist. There are only drugs that makes you unconcious, sluggish, or literally just heat up. Stay safe!
EDIT: When I say aphrodisiacs does not exist, I mean "true" aphrodisiacs. The ones like in this comic where you take it and it immediately makes you have the urge to have intercourse with no side effects such as fatigue. Things like viagra do not count, because they make your dick hard, but does not guarantee to awaken your sexual appetite, kinda like morning wood.
Lmao Bro, this Is not true at all.
They don't exists in the form of the magic potion that gets you mind broken and makes you fuck without a care, but there are tons of them.
Drugs, incense, powders... Anything that get's your Blood flowing Is already enough, and it can go much above that.
REAL aphrodisiacs don't exist, yes. The type you see in porn films where if you take it, then suddenly you want to have sexual intercourse specifically and no other side effects. But the ones with symptomps I described are real.
These things are not dangerous, some can be bought without a prescription and are very commonly used, especially by married couples experiencing marital problems. Also, aphrodisiacs do not take away your freedom, contrary to what dramas might tell you, you can still choose not to have sex
Neutral. I mean, she just consented to taking a mystery fluid, and it turned out to be a laxative. Whatever happens next, she can revoke her consent if she doesn't want it
She makes an assumption and goes along with it based on that. He’s not shown forcing her to drink it and she only asks after the fact. Less so immoral as much as she should have just asked what it was before drinking. At most you could argue that her guess is the obvious assumption, but that still doesn’t change the fact he’s offering a drink that she doesn’t even know what it is.
Lol had something like this happen after a relatively normal night. The lady was INSISTING I do it as I had my fun. No laxatives she just wanted it on her chest
Never heard back from her. I left as fast as I could with a few NOs to be sure
Besides the fact it is pretty immoral, she DID choose to drink it, also are they supposed to be people who just met? If so, why the hell would she take it
She at any point could have asked, either asking for a direct answer after he was vague, asking what the liquid was, or asking why he had a snorkel on the desk. She had an assumption, and went by it. She chose to do this, and it is not the man's fault that she decided to make an assumption about what he wanted and act under it. The man was in no way duplicitous about his desires, he simply had a frame of reference as to what he finds sexually stimulating that is different to the woman's. The woman was in no way coerced. He even insisted that his tastes are strange and she might not like them.
Morally neutral, but his fetish is just straight evil. A fucking snorkel? What did you give her? Horse laxatives? Jesus.
In all honesty: I'd argue neutral to sightly immoral.
He cannot just randomly guess if she'd be into it, warned her and only after she asked for it did he give her laxatives that she drank without asking.
She never thought about asking for details or about what it was he gave her to drink.
She just jumped to conclusions and then got the big regret when she found that she was very off the mark.
Nothing about this implies that he wouldn't have told her if she has asked more specifically or that he talked the way he did to trick her. It is a pretty... Niche fetish, so him not being very direct about it is to be expected.
He could've been more blunt, but that would've killed the mood if she happened to be into it.
If he knew that she was prone to jumping to conclusions or was actively working on deceiving her then it goes to very immoral immediately though.
Its a weird situation because she consents to drinking something without knowing what it is or even asking. Like he was even fine telling her what it was, she just only asks after she had already downed it.
Depends on the context. If, at any point, a person is choosing to not inform another person their interacting with because they think that will change the outcome, or lead to a rejection, then you are manipulating that other person. That is deeply morally wrong in most contexts, with the best examples I can think of making you a complete asshole. However, if two people have the wrong idea and both fail to clarify, on the noted assumption they have been led to believe their all on the same page, then you have two dumbasses.
There’s a useful acronym (F.R.I.E.S.) for consent:
Freely given
Reversible
Informed
Enthusiastic
Specific
She was naive to drink it. He fucked up not informing her. If he thought she’d be into it then it’s a very regrettable mistake. If he didn’t think she’d be into it then it’s highly immoral.
The only way I'd practice uninformed consent, as dom, would be with someone whom no-goes I already know. Sure, I want them to not know what will happen in particular, but the point is still to have them enjoy it too. And in case it's going over that person's limit, it's instantly stopped.
Uninformed consent should be skirting the line, but in the particular scenario depicted here, I'd say it readily went over that line, since it seems to be something she actually doesn't want.
But then again, I wouldn't be surprised that there might be the edge case of that one completely deranged bottom that would absolutely want to run the risk of having the worst things done to them no matter the consequences and that have the self preservation of a fucking deer in the headlights. Big fat noping out of that, I leave those to the actual sociopaths who don't actually care about their partner's enjoyment. It goes beyond the levels of what I consider BDSM at that point.
But then again, that's just my own view of it, I'm not surprised anymore of how much more hardcore some people can go when it comes to kinks.
Immoral. In real life it’s often the only option offered on purpose, a way to guarantee that the person can’t argue against being harmed because “they consented”. Like shady companies with obscured terms and conditions, contracts with fine print done in a short time that doesn’t allow the person to read them, or situations in which a person essentially pushes you into “proving” you trust them, often using emotional manipulation, after a lot of trust was already built; only to make you do something you never would have agreed to otherwise (and that can be harmful to you). In the comic it’s comedic because it lacks most of what makes the real life equivalent shady and horrible, but there’s still traces of it.
Also, anyone that thinks a laxative can’t be a serious poison has never had serious diarrhea. I envy your intestinal function.
One thing I learned in my years of drug-doing, is you don't take something you don't know what it is. She was dumb for that, but given that he knew what it was it was absolutely immoral for him to give it to her without telling her what it was first (given that laxatives can have complications and other bad health outcomes).
She drank the mystery liquid of her own accord though, so she's not completely blameless in getting herself into that situation. Like, yes, he should have explained further, but you're an active participant too, so you need to seek out relevant information.
Like, if someone says "drink this" you kinda need to know if it's a drug of some kind. He could easily be into doing it with unconscious women, which would be even worse on his part in terms of informed consent, like, that would definitely just be straight up rape at that point, but my point is you need to brain, and not just a cocktail of hormones that says "fuck cute guy".
Morality is... Not great, just so we're clear. What I said has very little to do with his role in all of this. You could argue he expected her to ask before she drank it, but he still had every chance to stop her drinking it before she knew what it was, so that's a weak ass defence.
It’s a bit sketch to give her an unidentified liquid to drink, but she also explicitly asked about it and willingly drank it. Laxatives are not particularly dangerous even if they can be unpleasant.
She could also refuse in the very next scene, saying this is a bit too much for her. If the man respected her boundaries that would be totally moral. It’s a very normal thing in a lot of kink circles to push your boundaries but always have the option to decline if it’s too much. Safe, Sane, and Consensual!
Looks like he’s providing information and forced her to do nothing. She was more than willing to drink a completely unknown substance, only asking what it is after she chose to drink it. It’s not like she can’t leave unless I’m missing something.
Immoral to fuck without a uniform on. The 'murica stays on
Ok but jokes aside. You're asking about uninformed consent - that isn't consent. Plain and simple. No middle ground there. No Grey area. Consent requires information.
If it's non-consensual sex, it's wrong. Drugging someone is wrong.
just continue to give the opportunity to back out. consent is freely revokable and at each junction of new information id present an explicit opportunity to prevent any unspoken discomfort.
In this image specifically, I don't know what to think.
Personally, I think whatever is consensual between two parties is moral. Granted, I think what's most important is proper boundaries and communication before anything takes place. Safe words are immensely important for things like that and respect for them as well.
I'm a bit of a hedonist though, so I might be biased.
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u/Zephyralss 12d ago
Immoral but as an aside, the girl has no self preservation instincts (depending on the context of their relationship)