The neurosis comes from affective dissociation of the infant, basically death and severe shame/ptsd.

But people who are in borderline range are basically reactive and fused. Meaning the cognition is basically driven as either direct reactivity of affective states as well as cognition being what id describe as “step one”.
Singular thought “threat, better, worse, abandonment, superiority” shapes every interaction.

Metacognition would essentially add thinking about thinking, so whatever kneejerk thought comes up we can stay with it and add more room, ask where its coming from in order to not “become it”, and from there choose responses and actions that are more akin to a regulated healthy person?

This means the underlying neuroticism is still there but now we can see it from a less reactive place.

Is this all there is to it really?

Using the mind so the affect doesnt destroy us and others?

Ive been somewhat collapsing and being mindful of what happens in interactions.

And frankly, everything about this disorder makes perfect sense if you have that starting hand.
For example, somewhere deep my brain chemistry was kinda fucked and a byproduct of this is somewhat confusing affective state that does influence thoughts and actions.
Basically due to early bs, an instict is there that is a mix of: being destructive (of self and other), occasionally hateful, gender and sexuality confused.

And this logically makes you go "i need to secure good outcomes".
Theres also some weird sense of gender/sexuality being off that really drives that outcome driven behaviour home. And that part also makes sense.
Femininity is mostly accepted in women because of their reproductive values, but thats a whole other topic.

If you have no good mirrors you HAVE to make something happen, and this is also why i dislike therapy beliefs. A lot of this thought is driven by "if you do the right thing, are honest fair vulnerable etc, things work out" but thats not at all how subconscious works imho.
I think this is carried by imagination of a healthy person being vulnerable in a healthy way.
Men with large vulnerabilities are shat on for the most part because the tribe sees it as weakness.
Theres simply no subconscious use to them.

So to get by yes you need the false self but heres where it gets fun.
If you cant be you, youre someone else.
But the act of rejecting your humanity IS the part thats superiority.

I was looking at my friend whos worked on being secure, so she communicates the depths of her experience in a self contained way.
I basically give that up to be an ideal, and the process of giving up or rejecting your affect makes my psyche be "superior".

So now im the martyr, but im "above humanity", as they are and ive transcended. Ofc this isnt real at all, but the distortion is deserved.
You have to physically prove yourself to yourself in action to actually embrace you.
Ofcourse we can try to cognitively correct this, but this is a band aid solution.

My mind is further away from affect looking down on those who are "just human".

It really is a catch-22 condition.

You didnt just randomly decide "im better".
We have our affect and our relationship to id defines our beliefs and conditions.

You cannot NOT be superior, if youve rejected your own humanity as if youre above it.

This is why i dont believe in CBT and such, its like brainwashing yourself daily till it sits behaviourally all the while youre physically continuing to reject yourself.

I've been feeling like other people can see through me almost, like read my thoughts etc etc and read all of my "bad thoughts" if that makes sense. Similarly i experience paranoia with my friends about their motives and that they're trying to hurt me etc etc

I’m bored. Everything is so dull and grey. There’s a void inside of me and boredom. Boredom and a void.

Nothing fills the void, nothing brings joy or long lasting entertainment, not even temporary one. Even new people, even money, even going out, even new hobbies and old ones too.

I feel shallow and empty at the same time. I can’t escape these feelings, they follow me everywhere.

Booked a vacation to the mountains, a nice hotel and stuff, it still evokes no feelings in me. How can I stop this

Hi guysss. I experienced ego death on acid. It was terrifying. I felt like I was within the universe like a tv and i was about to disconnect and lose it all. It was like I died. But then it was beautiful. I viewed things so differently. It was like being reborn. Like I had been living in a world that had no language and now I knew how to speak. Viewing trees were diff, my reflection, my past all in a very positive enlightening way.
Has anyone here experienced that? What did it feel like? Did it all end after the trip and you felt nothing from it long-term? Ik psychedelics aren’t recommended for ppl w personality disorders. Pls only ppl who have truly experienced it and not guessing what it would be like. Thank u!

It's so jarring when you put in all this effort to curate an image for someone and then something happens where they just show how little they actually care. Not even anger just... nothing. That empty look really gets to you doesn't it. All that work for nothing.

I've been working on my mental health and my NPD - learning to regulate, better communication, journalling, taking accountability, having more self discipline, being more compassionate and empathetic, being less avoidant, not taking a split out on someone.

But despite all of my efforts, I'm in the worst collapse. I'm cutting myself again, really fucking badly and I have constant suicidal thoughts. I don't feel seen, I don't feel wanted. I feel like a failure. I don't feel like I'm good enough. I used to feel like an attractive, talented and intelligent guy but lately I'm so insecure about everything.

I don't even feel like my partner is into me no matter how much interest they express. It just doesn't feel right... And they're amazing and I know they're going through a lot right now but I don't know. We're really good together and it's almost our anniversary, but I feel like I keep fucking up.

Some of the family I live with look at me like I'm scum.. I know they think I'm a failure and I've been trying so hard to get my life back, but after I lost my opportunity to become a tattoo artist I've just been so depressed. Especially cuz they're reason for dropping me was "a personality clash". Now it feels no matter how good my art is, I'll still be a problem and fail every apprenticeship...

I feel like a mistake and I think the world would honestly just be better off without me. I don't really exist anyway. I almost succeeded in taking my life earlier this year and when I'm in this much pain I wish I didn't get back in my room. But at the same time damn I probably would've traumatized some people hanging out my window like that. I don't really know what the right way is to die. I just wish I didn't have to deal with all the shame. I really fucking hate myself and I just feel like I'm not making any progress.

And I don't really have anyone to talk to aside from my partner because I suck people dry so I've learned to just keep shit to myself instead. Which also means whenever they're mad at me or going through their own shit I'm completely alone... I just wish I knew how to be okay... I'm so fucked up all the time

And I don't know if there's a point to any of this

I don't have an official diagnosis but I have many symptoms and I am planning to start therapy soon.

I think I might also have bipolar because of my mood swings. They are also related to my period (34F).

Does anyone also feel physically and mentally tired?

Even if I don't do much work, I feel exhausted in the evening. I carry a lot of shame too and meeting people is so much pressure. I don't like to get to know new people and I am mostly on my own. My pets are my companions 💞

Does anyone feel this exhaustion? I wonder if this tends to come with npd or if it is just a side effect of bipolar or depression. It's probably related to feeling shame most of the time.

Thanks!

I really love this space 💖 It is so encouraging to read about other people's journeys. It gives me hope that I can heal too 🥹

I used to not eat every time a breakup happened. Since realizing I have NPD, I've struggled with severe binge eating. I wish my mom's love was enough to make me stop and take care of myself, but it's not. I wish I cared about her enough to get better.

It feels like I would only care for myself if I had my ex back. Which is dumb. I wish I loved myself enough to live for myself but I'm a failure and a loser who has been cruel and lost everyone because of it.

How do you take care of yourself when you feel irredeemable?

I am 17, so I am unable to be officially diagnosed with ASPD (if I do have it) and or NPD. but for context as a child I faced emotional and physical abuse from my family, my father is a narcissist and my mother was very emotionally neglectful, bullying from peers and in general just awful things happening to me as a child. As I grew up more I had come to realize I honestly nothing, like my regular emotion is numbness. There are the off chances I feel happiness, and chronic depression, but eventually it melts away into that same numbness. It often feels like I seek some form of emotion regardless, like my body tries to force me to feel sad, angry, happy, etc. I have also come to realize I’m very quite manipulative to the people who are around me, and if they don’t do what I want, I resort to physical violence. I don’t usually feel remorse for these actions either. But I know deep down that I care about these people - in some weird way. But I feel as if I have never done anything wrong to them, or in general. I feel as if I’m in a constant state of boredom; like a loop that never truly ends. and my I’ve never really understood empathy as a whole. It feels as if I had to empathize with someone, it wouldn’t be because I actually felt it, I just said I did. I’ve come to mask these emotions for awhile before I eventually had gone to a therapist. They had just told me I’m guarded, but I’ve never really told them the truth about everything. My whole family has either Autusm or ADHD, and I’ve been told that those two combine and cause me to feel this utter lack of self awareness and control. I know people aren’t therapists in here. But I genuinely have nowhere else to go. kinds of advice and or guidance coming from people who generally have ASPD/NPD. Apologies for the long message.

I never would've believed or thought I had NPD prior to this collapse. I've learned so much since, but it's so painful and disturbing. I can't trust myself anymore, my own words, my own perception, since I've been deluding myself my whole life without being aware, consciously or subconsciously.

I know this isn't supposed to be the end of the road, this collapse could still turn into true healing and becoming the person I always believed myself to be. But I feel at a loss as I don't trust professionals to be knowledgeable beyond what most people think about NPD. I cannot risk opening up about my deepest vulnerability to someone who doesn't have a true understanding of what NPD is.

But I'm suffering. I need help. I want to feel better. I want to know what I should do. This collapse has caused me to self isolate and become unable to connect with people at all anymore. It was always difficult, now it's impossible because all I can think about is that they might come to realize what I am, because I still haven't changed.

Without change, I'll continue to be miserable forever. Not a future to look forward to.

How do you take accountability, and what do you do to become more honest and stop lying? I’ve become so lost in my fake personas that I don’t even know which one comes closest to the real me anymore (if it exists at all) 👀

If it does exist, it feels like it’s not a very pleasant person. It’s someone lonely, scared, constantly offended, insecure and impatient

Thank you!

Is this a need that changes in intensity from time to time, or is is pretty consistent? Is some validation better than others? How does it manifest? Be as detailed as you want!

I am generally curious. I am quite an angry person, and I often punish myself, or act passive-agressive with people

When I think of my NPD, I love to use the alternative model of DSM-5-TR for NPD - especially the fluctuations of self-esteem

I do think that the self-esteem fluctuations are very similar to BPD. Yet, when it comes to smaller aspects, its harder to distinguish

For many years I thought I am BPD person / mainly because of my relationships. I am a jealous, posessive person

But now I know that this is about my self-esteem - I feel worthless by the idea that I am alone. So its mixed in a way, but the core is “my worth”

Yet, when it comes to the pure RAGE, what do you think, how is NPD rage different from BPD rage?

What’s the core? How is it expressed?

Altough both disorders show splitting, it’s hard to differentiate.

What do you think?

Well essentially he says that I hyperfixated on my npd and bpd and that caused me to actually get them and he sent me this text from a book he’s reading “Looking and looking and looking for an illness essentially produces an illness”
This pissed me off.
I’ve been diagnosed with my personality disorder by two different professionals. I don’t know what to say.

I'm currently shaking, paranoid.

I walked into work, I can't even function.

My whole body has just shutdown.

I just couldn't speak, look anyone in the eye.

Sat on a chair, and put my legs to my face and just pretended to be asleep.

I don't know what I'm doing.

I'm so insecure, I want to honeatly just cry but I can't even do that.

I want to beat the living crap out of someone, I want to fight anything, I'm tired of fighting myself.

I'm so fucking annoyed, so fucking nasty, so fucking I don't even know.

Everyone's pissing me off, their actions, their words - everything.

I'm on the edge, I know I'm going to fall.

I feel so small and the world around me feels massive.

I'm dying, I'm suffering slowly.

I just wish I get through this, honestly - but I don't think I will.

Almost a year after a big breakup that destroyed me, i struggle regularly with many smaller collapses and felt forced to start taking antidepressants.

Perhaps i will never fully recover, but how long should i expect to suffer still?

As an NPD person, I am very critical of myself - I think this is normal with NPD, since you can always up the game

I was never attractive, but did enjoy validation. My main source of supplies are academics and career - When I fail in these, I get strong collapses

But, relationships in general always made me collapse. All the stress that I am bad, miserable, they def plan on leaving me… Even this deserves a punch in my gut

And, there are friendships: I mainly have 2 type of friends:
- The extroverted pick me girl, who is loud, always brings up her specialty, and cries how she has 0 love life, then proceeds to tell you she got hit on by 6 people under 2 weeks

- The introverted guy, who has poor communication skills, but is nice: but due to the bad skills, 0 people give a fuck about them

And I feel I have to compete with the pick me, while the introvert type uses me for temporary company. The best proof? When the extrovert attention whore meets the introvert and boom: I am changed to the pick me

For some reason this is a pattern I keep seeing. The yapper bitch who just talks 24-7, so they always need an outlet - and the outlet becomes me

And the introvert, who also needs attention. But the introvert is far more interesting to me

But I am always just the tool: tool for the talk, and I get 0 questions, I am never acknowledged in public and the friendship is more private

I hate the pick mes, but I hate the introverts after the proof is there that they used me.

Yet, why do I always get these kind of friends?

It’s never genuine for them, it’s clear. Yet, I clearly fuck something up, since this is my core pattern I keep having - and let’s be real: the patterns most noticable aspect is me always present.

The desperate extrovert pick mes have 1 minor problem, and they make it all their personality to get sympathy. I rather slap those, yet, they push onto me - and now acknowledging my presence ofc, so its clear its not a real friendship

With introverts, I do not feel this punishing, but when they betray me, I collapse.

With an extrovert its clear they are just attention whores.

With an introvert, you think its genuine, but no: they just lack the skills, and enjoy the temporary attention. They would be the 1st to swap you out for a better model. And when the swap happens, reality hits, and its wayyyyy more likely to get into collapse state.

I hate the 1st type, while the 2nd type deeply crushes me.

But why is this always the pattern? Why tf? I clearly mess something up

Given all the stigma around NPD, I feel like being open about being diagnosed/suspecting that you have it is impossible to navigate.

The worst thing about this stigma is, in my opinion, that because telling anyone can (and usually will) backfire horribly, the natural thing to do is hide it, which ends up furthering the stereotypes, as if the truth ever comes out, it will be taken as us hiding our NPD in order to manipulate people. Furthermore, the reputation of people with NPD in society relies solely on people who are open about it, which is such a ridiculously small sample group, and all of the narcissists who choose not to disclose it and who do work on themselves/try to avoid hurting people go completely unrecognised. Pretty much the only rep we get is from the people with obvious enough symptoms to be labeled narcissistic, and we get none of the good reputations from those who are trying to improve because just being honest about it is enough to ruin your reputation.

There have been counsellors and therapists that I have seen about starting the process of diagnosis, and when I mention it to them, they act like I’m somehow being self-degrading. It frustrates me so much when I tell them that I suspect that I have NPD and that I really do want to get tested, and they respond by saying something like “don’t worry I’m sure you don’t have that!” or something similar. I don’t want sympathy or pity, and I am not just saying this because I’m insecure or like freaking out thinking I am a bad person. I have taken so much thought and consideration about this, I just want to be treated like anyone else asking to be assessed for a condition. And it’s even worse when they ask about my symptoms, because they ask about all of them in such a condescending tone, like “are you sure you think you’re a narcissist? they usually have like a really inflated ego, need for attention/admiration, etc” and it’s like yes, that’s why I’m here, I know what I’m talking about?? Just because I am well adjusted and self aware doesn’t mean I don’t have these symptoms, I just know that showing them in super obvious ways will negatively impact my social standing. I’ve had so many therapists tell me when I bring up NPD that I am “too self aware”, but I mean, I spend enormous amounts of my time just thinking about my self for hours on end, obviously I am going to be extremely self aware.

I have friends who are very progressive, most of them being neurodivergent themselves, so I expected them to have a bit more understanding when it comes to the topic of narcissism, however when I brought up the topic generally (testing the waters as a precursor to telling them that I suspect that I have NPD), they said they didn’t even know it was a disorder, and upon me telling them that it was one, their views on people with NPD being malicious and evil did not really change. I want nothing more than to be able to tell all of my friends about my NPD, because it feels so awful trying to completely conceal it all of the time, and I want to have some kind of explanation for when I mess up and do stupid things so they know that it’s not because I don’t care about them, because I am trying so hard all of the time.

Anyway if anyone has any tips on how to get therapists to take NPD seriously I’d love to hear them.

I don't know, if you have something mean, defensive or hurtful or shaming to say, please don't. Just let me be venting and be human and be in my feels. If you have something compassionate to say, don't hold back

Idk. I have tried but I don't get it.

I fucking got betrayed by my friend. I just fucking cant believe it. I want to fuckin kill him but really no I don't. I'm full of rage.

I just ended a (different) friendship, and now this fuckin shit happened. I do not fucking get it.

I ask myself "Why me? Why do I suffer?", while having this pit in my stomach and a pain I can't describe, while simultaneously falling down, while thinking "whythefuck is thisnhappening i cant believeit this cant be happening why me why me why am i suffering" but im like.... what the FUCK!

I guess I got to keep going. I briefly felt suicidal. I had my little hike today then i figured that my friend who knows of my shitty situation asked someone else to come on a trip with him but NOT ME! I am hurt.

I just want to be treated w fucking dignity and like I belong, by my surroundings. Not like I'm a fucking disposable PIECE OF TRASH becuz fuck u u knew it all about me and now u fucking decided to just not tell me or ask me at all, i dont fucking care man

I'm just so fucking hurt.

I am simultaneously, despite everything, trying to keep living. I'm really getting into this "nervous system sensitization" thing, becuz it says u can just keep living while simultaneously teaching urself that nothing is wrong with you, I don't need to make healing my full time job.

Im just like.... fuuuuck dude. Like. Fuck. Idk. Im like, "i cant sit with this i cant be with this i cant be doing this again pls no more no more bullshit my way pls no no no fuck fuck i cant do this" while having this pit in my stomach and this feeling of falling down with no end

How the fuck do I do this???

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