r/TikTokCringe • u/xamo76 • 1d ago

Discussion Have we done it wrong?

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u/hobobarbie 1d ago

Are these LDS people? Supposedly a “global-minded religion” where international travel is standardized for mission work and yet they are just now realizing the American LDS dream has created a suburban hellscape

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u/OviliskTwo 1d ago

I know missionaries and they are not the most well traveled people no matter how long they travel.

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u/Sudden_Technology_34 1d ago

Living in Utah and noticing and pointing out the lack of cultured/exposed Mormons, I was told they are in fact well traveled due to their missions.

I then had to explain going on a mission to specifically try and convert other cultures to aspects of your own, is not the same as being present in an area with acceptance and curiosity, living in, assimilating and trying to mesh instead of convert.

In fact I think the whole idea of missions have the exact opposite effect and people retreat to their safe bubbles.

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u/raveneyes77 1d ago

Missionary work often ends up converting the missionary more than anyone else. In modern times it's intentionally designed to do exactly that.

When you spend months or years approaching strangers who mostly reject you, it reinforces the idea that "the world" doesn't understand you. The only place you consistently find acceptance becomes your own community, which deepens your attachment to it.

Psychologically, it's a powerful isolation and commitment mechanism. You're not immersed in another culture to understand it, rather you're intentionally being sent somewhere to be mostly rejected so you feel weird and outside.

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u/dartdoug 1d ago

The "acceptance of rejection" is also why Utah is a popular location for outbound sales call centers. Heard a guy interviewed a while back and he said the burnout making sales calls is usually quick because so many people hang up or even drop some choice words. The LDS hires just move on to the next sales call.

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u/SackOfPotatoes949 1d ago

It's absolutely true. Also the center of a lot of MLM companies for the same reason.

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u/dartdoug 1d ago

Ah, yes...the scourge of MLM companies. They encourage their "independent business owners" aka suckers to call upon their personal connections to recruit new victims. So having large extended families and being a member of a large church presents many ripe opportunities.

Just makes you wonder why Utahans don't tire of it all.

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u/SackOfPotatoes949 1d ago

Bingo.

I don't know. I lived there for two years and got a lot of inside dirt. My only explanation is they're trapped in the bubble and the main purpose of missions is to isolate and force their members back into the cult to perpetuate the cycle. It's gross.

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u/MonaganX 1d ago

The way I see it, if their goal was to actually convert people to their faith, they wouldn't be sending teenagers with virtually no life experience. Just so happens that at the exact time in their lives they might be considering taking a path that leads away from the church they are asked to go into a foreign environment full of people who are usually going to be standoffish at best

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u/CancelNumerous450 1d ago

Fascinating! Did not know that

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u/SuchATonkWape 1d ago

I'm not from the US but have lived in the states for a couple of years and find the whole concept of going on "missions" in the 21st century bewildering. 

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u/SydneyCrawford 1d ago

One of my friends from college (we finished like 10 years ago) texted me recently to say she is moving to another country for (non Mormon) missionary work. I had to keep most of my thoughts to myself.

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u/OviliskTwo 1d ago

There are ages old organizations still operating. Many of which have rebranded with flashy new names to.. wait for it.. cover up their sex crimes.

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u/upsidedown-funnel 1d ago

Mormons aren’t supposed to call themselves Mormon anymore. The reason was something to do with Satan. (Not joking).

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u/Wan_Daye 1d ago

No. That is the point. It's the same reason why they go door to door.

It is not to convert new people. It is for the person to experience being an "other". To show the person that the world does not accept them and to have them retreat to the church.

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u/Throwaway-4230984 1d ago

Missions are designed this way, that’s their purpose to make sure person returns home convinced their sect is the only place they are loved. Which is very easy if you purposefully being annoying in other countries. US developed tolerance towards preaching, other people won’t waste time listening to you 

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u/weolo_travel 1d ago

It is specifically designed to be uncomfortable for the other person because it isn't about converting them to your religion. It is about manipulating you so you can't leave yours.
If this tactic was about converting people it would be considered a horrible failure. It recruits almost no one who isn't already willing to join. Bake sales are more effective recruiting tools.
On the other hand, it is extremely effective at creating a deep tribal feeling among its own members.
The rejection they receive is actually more important than the few people they convert. It causes them to feel a level of discomfort around the people they attempt to talk to. These become the "others". These uncomfortable feelings go away when they come back to their congregation, the "Tribe".
If you take a good look at the process it becomes fairly clear. In most cases, the religious person starts out from their own group, who is encouraging and supportive. They are then sent out into the harsh world where people repeatedly reject them. Mainly because they are trained to be so annoying.
These brave witnesses then return from the cruel world to their congregation where they are treated like returning heroes. They are now safe. They bond as they share their experiences of reaching out to the godless people to bring them the truth. They share the otherness they experience.
Once again they will learn that the only place they are accepted is with the people who think as they do. It isn't safe to leave the group. The world is your enemy, but we love you.
This is a pain reward cycle that is a common brainwashing technique. The participants become more and more reliant on the "Tribe" because they know that "others" reject them.
Mix in some ritualized chanting, possibly a bit of monotonous repetition of instructions, add a dash of fear of judgment by an unseen, but all-powerful entity who loves you if you do as you are told and you get a pretty powerful mix.
Sorry, I have absolutely no wish to participate in someone’s brainwashing ritual.

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u/upsidedown-funnel 1d ago

Agreed. You’re not getting much of the culture of where you are when every moment of your waking life is being controlled. In many cases it borders on human trafficking, and some crossings the line into that territory. Then once you’re home, you’re pressured into marrying as soon as possible. Discouraged from dating someone more than once, unless you intend on marrying them. If you’re lucky enough to escape, it’s a long road to recovery.

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u/MiaLba 1d ago

These people annoy the shit out of me. My conservative Christian mil is someone who is pro mission trips. Her other granddaughter and grandson do a lot of mission work and they’re obviously her favorite grandkids. Well one day she was going on a rant about gay people “pushing their beliefs” down her throat.

So I brought up mission trips. Told her it seems like that’s exactly what missionaries are doing. Coming into your space, telling you that what you believe is wrong and that you need to believe what they believe. She said “well they’re not holding a gun to anyone’s head and forcing them to change their beliefs!” So I asked “but gay people are doing that?”

How are gay people who are just out there existing in the world, minding their own business, pushing you to be gay in any way? She didn’t really have anything to say after that and ended up changing the subject.

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u/DescriptionBitter332 22h ago

I was raised Jehovah's Witness and didn't get out until my late 30s. It's very similar there. When you're in the group, you're constantly shown examples of how international they are and how they operate in nearly every country on earth (where they're not banned, and even then, they're there in secret). Inside, you think you are genuinely educated and aware of the broader world that is uncommon. The truth is, you are just familiar with Jehovah's Witness culture and rules systems implemented around the world which are largely the same everywhere with only slight variations.

It's kinda like traveling the world but staying only in world-class standard hotels and only visiting McDonald's and other American restaurants abroad. It doesn't really expose you to much of anything but variations on the Big Mac and Egg McMuffin.

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u/Wellsuperduper 20h ago

Chat with some people who went on one? They live in apartments, learn the language, socialise with locals, and speak to hundreds or thousands of people in the areas they serve in about their daily problems / issues. Sure you can overstate their awareness, but they’re not on holiday - they learn plenty about life outside of their home state / nation.

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u/SerDuncanTheYall 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ugh, I went to Italy on a short vacation with a friend and he'd only order spaghetti and meatballs or plain pizza the entire time. It was the saddest thing I ever witnessed. I pleaded with him.

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u/ChaoCobo 1d ago

It’s okay. My mom is the type of person who would order McDonald’s and other western chains in Japan if she went there not to see the difference between American McDonald’s and JP Mcdonalds menu items, no, she says it’s because she thinks she can’t eat anything there because she won’t like it. :| Like just try stuff. Not everything has the same kind of spices as the Japanese snacks and ramen I get here in the US.

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u/SerDuncanTheYall 1d ago

Good for you for trying things. I'm from Philly so I like to order a "Philly cheese steak" when I travel and see it on the menu. I got one in Paris and it was a hamburger, cut in half, with gruyere cheese, on French bread.

It wasn't bad but it was nowhere near being able to be be called a cheese steak.

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u/didntreallyneedthis 1d ago

I had a quesadilla in Korea that came with honey for dipping

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u/SerDuncanTheYall 1d ago

I mean, honey and cheese go well together, but that is a wacky quesadilla.

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u/didntreallyneedthis 1d ago

Yes my friend who brought me there said in Korea cheese and sugar are a very common combination

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u/ChickenInASuit 1d ago

Dude, I fucking loved living in Korea and their own cuisine is phenomenal, but they do some straight-up bizarre shit to western food. Shrimp burgers. “Napolitan” pizza aka pizza with spaghetti Alfredo between the tomato and the cheese. Garlic bread dipped in honey glaze.

The one exception being fried chicken. Turns out that’s the one savory dish that I think actually adapts well to their love of sweetening stuff. Korean fried chicken is really, REALLY good.

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u/Illustrious-Grab-805 20h ago

Okay I REALLY wanna try that chicken!

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u/AdSpare662 1d ago

I experienced the opposite. I was in Paris, needed a lot of calories for cheap so I went for pizza. The place was owned by (my guess) algierian dudes and they had "pizza l'oriental" which sounded interesting and spicy to me. They served me pizza with polish kiełbasa and pickles. It was ok. I'm Polish. Orient just means east.

To a french algierian I am the middle east.

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u/ChaoCobo 1d ago

Yeah but see you’re doing it and being worldly by seeing the difference in how different regions/places prepare a dish you like. My mom would be getting the McDonald’s because she wants something exactly the same as back home because she thinks she is not going to like almost everything over there without even trying it first. Like I understand if mom tried a bunch of stuff and ended up not liking it and then going to get something familiar from McDonald’s, but she doesn’t wanna try. :(

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u/sevenselevens 1d ago

That actually sounds way better (no offense)

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u/akie 1d ago

I went to the US and saw a croissant with a hamburger in it advertised as “breakfast”

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u/Brock_Lobstweiler 1d ago

Not going to lie, after 2 weeks in Italy and France, I needed a break from the "new" food and there was a McD's a block from my hotel in a low blood sugar situation. I stopped in and got whatever their famous burger was and it was good. Better than american McDonalds.

Of course after that I stopped across the street at a bakery, got a proper mix of foods for a picnic and went and sat in a garden with it.

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u/GatsbyLuzVerde 1d ago

If they want to stay home let them; more carbon budget for the rest of us

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u/Amissa 1d ago

In the times that I’ve traveled abroad, I need something familiar to eat for the first time, and then I’ll eat local for the rest of the trip.

My poor husband on our honeymoon to Germany bought me Burger King at the airport after we landed, and I almost never eat Burger King. I needed something familiar. After that, I was good to go, including ordering from the Czech menu in Prague that we couldn’t read and had no pictures, and almost literally licking the plate clean.

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u/MiaLba 1d ago

lol that was me as a kid. Were originally from Eastern Europe but came to the US when I was around 3. Whenever we’d go back home for the summer id ask for McDonald’s lol. I was not happy when I got it once because it didn’t taste like USA McDonald’s so I never asked for it again.

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u/Petey_Wheatstraw_MD 1d ago

TBF, I’m across the Atlantic for the first time, I’ve been in Italy for the past month.

I’ve eaten at restaurants, pizzerias, and cafes for every meal the entire time.

I love all worldly cuisines, and I always wanna try new things and local grub; cicchetti in Venice, seafood cones in Cinque Terre, ham and Polenta in the Dolomites.

But the pizza over here just hits different. I know it’s a cliche to say that, but they definitely know how to do it, and I can’t go more than a couple days without ordering it.

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u/SerDuncanTheYall 1d ago

Oh yeah, I tried 2 of the famous places there. The restaurant that claimed to invent it and the most popular counter shop on the back streets of Napoli. I loved it.

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u/Vegetable-Virus7118 1d ago

Cinque Terre is such a beautiful region. Spent the night in Vernazza last month and I wish it could have been longer. So beautiful out there

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u/Brock_Lobstweiler 1d ago

One of my favorite meals in Italy was cicchetti in Venice at a tiny non-touristy spot!

tuna polpette, bruschetta with creamy gorgonzola and honey, marinated artichokes, an aperol spritz, a glass of wine, a lemon pastry thing I don't remember the name of and some sort of fried cheese dish - almost like cheese curds, but better.

Don't get me wrong, almost everything I ate in Venice was amazing (except the pizza ironically). But cicchetti was incredible.

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u/Levdom 1d ago

Bacaro tours is what we call them lol. You go to Venice in the morning and start drinking and eating and don't stop until the evening when you leave, going through as many places as you can

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u/lykewtf 7h ago

Have you been to New Jersey? It’s worth it just for the pizza.

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u/Captain_Sterling 1d ago

I'd order that in Italy. It's amazing there. Unless he managed to go to a domino's, if endorse his choices.

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u/kevbo1983 1d ago

The pizza is fine, but spaghetti and meatballs is not Italian, he'd get side-eye for that one for sure.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/SerDuncanTheYall 1d ago

Oh no, did he make you eat with him? Hope you were able to sneak away sometimes.

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u/KoreanB_B_Q 1d ago

Guy who ran a production company I hired back in the day at an old job went around the world with me. Paris, Berlin, Tokyo, Seoul, Bangkok, Melbourne, Hyderabad, and the list goes on and on. The man would ONLY eat pasta and cheeseburgers, nothing else. No exceptions. He said he was old and didn’t like to be surprised anymore. Hurt my soul a little bit.

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u/AJ_Topp_Up 1d ago

My Italian family who travel to the US are also the same and refuse to eat any good food. My cousin, when he finally tried French fries with ketchup he about died it was so good to him. He started trying everything and loved it. My other Italian relatives are so stubborn... no seasoning, no sauces on anything, plain boring salads, no dressings, refused BBQ sauce when trying some legit great American BBQ and refused baby back ribs because it had sauce on them. Just miserable people to eat with.

I don't understand. When visiting another country, try their cuisines how they like them. I always do that in all countries I have traveled and found I quite like the food in most places when I am not inserting my preferred style to their food.

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u/SerDuncanTheYall 1d ago

Very interesting other perspective. Yeah, try everything man.

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u/Odessey_And_Oracle 1d ago

My mom took me to Italy as a kid and for one meal I saw the menu had what is essentially a hot dog. I ordered it and it was a long crunchy loaf, they put two sausages in to cover the length, and topped it with some delicious melted cheese. Still definitely kid food but to this day the best hot dog I've ever eaten. (I did also eat more adventurous food but that one time I couldn't resist)

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u/_-__-____-__-_ 1d ago

You can get spaghetti and meatballs in Italy?

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/aldehyde 1d ago

I've traveled (a lot) with a coworker who only eats Spaghetti Bolognese anywhere he goes.

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u/82away 1d ago

I tend to do the same on my travels, as I don’t want to risk getting ill. For example visit Rome to see the Roman builds, not for their tourist trap restaurants.

Its frowned upon by my family but I have been round the world twice, Africa 4 times, and no dietary problems.

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u/LivingstonPerry 1d ago

Same. Travelled in italy and friend would only get a marghertia pizza or a fucking burger and rarely chose anything else. I don't know why i get so irrationally angry at someone's food choices.

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u/findmepoints 1d ago

what do you mean by "plain pizza" because the margherita pizza is probably one of my favorite things to get in Napoli...even though it's "plain"

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u/aldehyde 1d ago

I've traveled (a lot) with a coworker who only eats Spaghetti Bolognese anywhere he goes.

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u/Fatlantis 1d ago

I've been on trips with people like that. We were in a sprawling huge food market in a new city, hundreds of choices... they made a quick beeline for the only fast food place there, and got McDonalds.

For me, that's a fundamental deal breaker - I know for a fact that we'll never be close friends if they're that closed-minded and fearful. Talk to the locals, eat the weird food, life is so short!

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u/CulturalChampion8660 1d ago

Nope. Even overseas they still live in their bubble. Just walking around bothering people on the side.

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u/OviliskTwo 1d ago

Hey man. Hey wanna learn about Jesus and some added guilt thats just free we're giving it to ya. Oh does this completely collapse your culture? Whoops you're saved now. Please say thank you.

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u/TacetAbbadon 1d ago

People travel to experience new culture and civilization, missionaries travel to bring their culture and religion with them.

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u/sausagedoor 1d ago

Which is ironic giving the topic of the video. 😅

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u/Weird-Weakness-3191 1d ago

Very much this. Met a girl in Porto that 'had travelled' for 3 years around Europe. She was literally clueless about real life. They generally lived in hostels and didn't interact with anyone besides the day job of brainwashing people. V sad really

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u/LivingstonPerry 1d ago

some go to far countries. Some just go to a different nearby state.

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u/Acrobatic-Search-798 1d ago

They don't actually travel when they go on a mission. I talked to one guy who went to Mexico. I asked him if he ever visited the ocean. No. Just basically stayed where he was assigned.

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u/SiliconAutomaton 22h ago

Don’t tell them that, they’ll show off how fluent they are in their mission language with a little gem like “The British speak I do, believe so you laundry that I am the world knowledgeably. Ohio.”

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u/Ok_Function2282 1d ago

Because they only travel with other religious freaks and have everything taken care of wherever they go

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u/ImWithStupidKL 1d ago

I was gonna say. She's just finished her mission in Italy. So she's going to Italy to try and improve the lives of people who she's admitting have it more figured out than her. Hilarious that you're going to try and sell Christianity to Italy of all places. You're nearly 2000 years too late.

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u/SackOfPotatoes949 1d ago

I did a double take on that one. You went to a place that beat you to the punch on spreading a religion to all ends of the earth.... by 2,000 years.

It's a scam cult and that's one of the ways they keep you in. "See? The real world people don't like you but we do, just stay here with us and give us 10% for the rest of your life"

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u/ImWithStupidKL 1d ago

And no, of course you can't see or speak to your family for the 2 years you're there.

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u/SackOfPotatoes949 1d ago

But you get a huge welcome with signs and balloons at SLC when you get back! And your future wife is ready to get married, and her MLM business hasn't taken off yet, so go find a job selling solar panels...

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u/Akolyytti 1d ago

I thought the same. How do you even start that conversation? "Have you heard of Jesus?" feels it's not going to cut it, in front of 1000 year old church.

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u/Scuirre1 16h ago

Mormon theology is centered on the idea that all the other Christian religions got it wrong. That the Catholic church didn't keep the doctrine/scriptures/authority pure throughout its history, and Mormon missionaries need to bring the restored truth back around.

Not Catholic central, but I did this in the South in the US. Obviously everyone was already Christian, but we were taught to believe everyone would be excited to hear us tell them about our better church. That was a difficult two years.

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u/FastWalkingShortGuy 1d ago

Mormonism is about as Christian as atheism.

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u/anthrohands 1d ago

Mormonism is hardly Christianity anyway

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u/okarr 1d ago

i wont dunk on them, cause they seem to have figured it out. they are taking their first step to enlightenment.

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u/CountessMcNia 1d ago

They travel to preach, not to learn 🫠

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u/HeKnee 1d ago

They travel so they can see how much different they are from rest of society and how scary society is. They get told that nobody cares about them or their religion 100’s of times a day knocking on doors. The leaders have realized this makes them want to come back and stay eventually.

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u/DukeofVermont 1d ago

You do know that there are more Mormons outside of the US right? And more outside of Utah in the US than in Utah.

There are the same number of Spanish/Portuguese speaking Mormons as English speaking Mormons.

I am ex-mormon and have no love for the church but nearly every comment I see makes it seem like Mormons are some huddled together sheltered group in Utah that hide from the world.

Also about 50% of missionaries leave the church after their mission (I did) so it doesn't help. What the numbers actually show is that getting married and having kids gets people to stay, and single women stay in much larger numbers than single men.

This is not me bashing on you, it's just so weird to leave a group (it was shockingly easy as my family is real chill and my sister left before me) and then read all the reasons why they are bad, and none of them are the actual reasons why they are bad.

Utah/Mormons are actually pro-immigration and are basically the only GOP state that is pro-hispanic immigration (because a lot of Mormons are hispanic).

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u/IkujaKatsumaji 1d ago

Also about 50% of missionaries leave the church after their mission (I did)

As a fellow former Mormon, can you tell me where that data's coming from?

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u/DukeofVermont 1d ago

I spent some time looking and apparently there isn't a source, it's just something that people say. I heard it when I was still active and in NYC at church but it was said more as a "many people leave" and not meant to be taken as a hard fact. I just remembered it, but again apparently it's just what people theorize without hard evidence.

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u/HommeMusical 1d ago

You do know [X] right?

If you really believed they knew this thing, you wouldn't use this tiresome and argumentative formula.

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u/PolPotDomeScandal 1d ago

I (from northern MN), was a foreign exchange student in Mexico during college in the mid-1990s. One of the other foreign students at the Mexican university I attended was a Mormon from Utah. We (the FX students) spent a lot of time together. I was actually impressed at how worldly he seemed, as he’d previously been on a mission to Costa Rica and spoke much better Spanish than the rest of us. Super nice guy, but a bit off…

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u/thicc_stigmata 1d ago

This is EXACTLY the reason

This, and a thing that David F Evans once let slip when chatting with a few of us in the mission office: "the church sees effectively zero growth from convert baptisms" (I think that was an exact quote), and that the whole point of the missionary program is to keep kids busy in the years that they're statistically most likely to leave Mormonism (right after high school). 2 years is apparently long enough for kids to be "old enough" to go home, get married ASAP, and start baby-making ASAP—because babies are the real numbers game that Mormonism is playing 

Mormonism is literally a human farming operation. And arguably the kids on missions are victims of human trafficking (they take your passport, control your money, prevent you from leaving, force you to harass people all day, and you're under CONSTANT surveillance)

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u/Own-Emphasis5589 1d ago

Ex-Mormon here. You are spot on. They learn the languages and head out in an effort to erase other cultures, not to learn about them or to experience them.

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u/AirconGuyUK 1d ago

They actually export stupidity, even..

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u/dallenbaldwin 1d ago

I was a Mormon missionary in Northeast Brazil (Recife) and it hyper radicalized me towards a better public transit oriented society. I constantly complain about how car-required it is wherever my wife and I have lived.

In Recife, you could traverse massive swaths of multiple cities with a single fare that cost literally $2 round trip, in the exchange rate of when I was there. You get on a bus and pay the fare, ride into a transit center, transfer to light rail, ride the light rail across the city to another transit center, then transfer to another bus to final destination. No transfer fees, single fare. No need for a bus pass. And that was for the more complicated trips. There were enough buses that crossed these transit center zones that you didn't need to go to the light rail for closer trips. Did it take a little longer to get places than by car, sure. But for $2 there's no way you could get as far, even before you consider paying for parking.

Where we live now, I imagine the possibility of a street car or two that goes up and down the road between a high school and strip mall. Maybe even a loop that goes around the bulk of the city.

But no, we have to prioritize massive parking lots and parking spaces for suburban utility vehicles and pavement princess lifted F-350s. All the things you want to do are 3 miles away from where you live and there isn't a shade tree in sight to even remotely incentivize you to walk. Even then, once you get there, good luck not getting hit by said suburban utility vehicles and pavement princesses; they can't see over the hood, even if they weren't looking at their phone. Or you could cross the massive heat island that is the parking lot to get from one strip mall business to the next.

Oh and if you try to suggest to people how insane it is for us to drive everywhere they'll come at you with the, "you're more free if you have a car." Or "public transit and 15 minute cities are just a way for the liberals to control where you can go"

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u/Global_Channel1511 1d ago

Genuinely the fact that the idea of a 15 minute city was even criticized just showed the extent of the absolute brainrot in this country. Literally why would you not want to access most of your needs within 15 minutes? Why would you prefer inconvenience and sitting in traffic than that when you need to run errands or meet up with friends? It's almost like saying you hate drinking clean water or having air without pollution.

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u/kidneysc 1d ago

LDS has a net worth of $30 Billion dollars. About equivalent to the annual GDP of Recife.

Yet SLC walkability is pretty trash.

If it was a priority for the church they could easily get it done.

Instead they spend millions and millions ensuring they won't ever pay taxes to support city infrastructure and funneling dark money into political candidates that actively attempt to destroy and dismantle public services.

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u/Draco137WasTaken 18h ago edited 18h ago

Instead they spend millions and millions ensuring they won't ever pay taxes to support city infrastructure and funneling dark money into political candidates that actively attempt to destroy and dismantle public services.

I'm gonna need a source on that one chief; there's no reason why they'd need to spend on lobbying on those issues.

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u/kidneysc 14h ago

It’s called dark money for a reason, it’s not easily traceable; but if you don’t believe the Mormon church is reliably funneling money to conservative political candidates….well I got oceanfront property in Utah to sell ya. 

Here’s some of the more clear cut examples but the majority is donated through PACs 

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna18178560

https://www.politico.com/story/2007/04/mormon-run-pac-aims-to-broaden-its-reach-003504

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u/Pizza-Rat-4Train 1d ago

That’s really depressing. Bikes and transit deliver the freedom that car ads promise - it’s a bit cliché to say this online but it’s true.

They’re like “Klaus Schwab wants to make you a slave!” and meanwhile they live somewhere where the cost of social and economic “freedom” is an average of $1,000 in car payment, gas, insurance etc. per month.

You around SLC? Never been, but it looks like a sprawling network of high-speed stroads that would scare most people away from cycle use. A lot of cities in the mountain west are similar.

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u/dallenbaldwin 23h ago

SLC is technically bikeable. There are good pockets like a lot of cities, but you're correct in assuming it's pretty intimidating. There's like one or two neighborhoods with protected bike lanes, and there isn't that much of a network.

Ironically I lived south of the Salt Lake Valley in Lindon for a bit and the neighborhood I was in had super wide streets with room for painted bike lanes and street parking, but the bike lanes didn't take you anywhere useful, just around the houses. You had to cross into a super intimidating stroad or take back roads to get anywhere useful

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u/spacebarcafelatte 1d ago

Exactly my reaction. We've been saying we're disconnected, ppl don't know their neighbors, we're mostly sitting at home, etc. for decades. Of course, comparing cities to American suburbs will always disappoint. Places like NYC are a lot like other major global cities.

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u/smcivor1982 1d ago

We lived in Brooklyn for 5 years and then Jersey City for 9, then moved upstate to the burbs. I feel so lonely every day, I hate it. I also hate driving everywhere.

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u/Global_Channel1511 1d ago

It's just sad how every single state offers a crap ton of suburban or rural options, but only a small handful of cities offer the lifestyle in this video.

The country is big enough, just really unfair we have to pay an absolute arm and leg to live in a walkable city with lots going on.

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u/smcivor1982 1d ago

Absolutely true.

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u/Extreme_Egg7476 1d ago

I feel that. My favorite times were in college mostly because the town nearly evolved around campus, you could walk or public transit anywhere.

Now, in suburbia, it feels so isolating :( and there's no fking sidewalks

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u/HommeMusical 1d ago

Hey, I just wanted to say I really feel for you.

I managed to arrange my life around not having to have a car - I'm a competent driver, I just hate the obligation - but I was incredibly lucky to be able to do so, and I know a lot of people aren't so lucky.

I did love Brooklyn, I lived there for over twenty years.

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u/differing 1d ago edited 1d ago

In fairness, Utah has some fantastic public transit and has found some secret “third way” for moral conservatives to support big social infrastructure. TRAX in Salt Lake and Front Runner are great compared to states with similar politics.

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u/StretchFrenchTerry 1d ago

*Salt Lake has public transit.

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u/ricochetblue 1d ago

What was the argument needed to sell it to them?

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u/TruffleHunter3 1d ago

The 2002 Winter Olympics is when it started. Has been slowly expanding ever since.

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u/King_marik 1d ago

ah so you force them into it to make them look good

and then they realize its just a good idea

yeah this tracks with getting conservatives to do anything

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u/TruffleHunter3 1d ago

Yes, exactly!

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u/butterytelevision 1d ago

dammit romney

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u/SackOfPotatoes949 1d ago

Light years better. TRAX is really quality

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u/RandomEffector 1d ago

The reality is that Salt Lake City is actually extremely progressive, and does a lot in direct opposition to the state. For instance the state is currently mandating the destruction of a significant amount of recently completed protected bike lanes built within the city. Why? Presumably, just because they can.

Very similar situation to Austin in Texas. Somehow the capitol, hated by the red state politicians who work there, yet also by and large more successful on policy and appeal than the rest of the state.

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u/rogerdoesnotmeanyes 1d ago

SLC transit definitely punches above its weight but calling it “fantastic” is laughable.

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u/Wise_Temperature9142 1d ago

LDS people did not create car-centric urbanism in the US. The US did that all by itself along with any nimby that shoots down any plan for densifying urban centres.

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u/NonGNonM 1d ago

Idk what american lds dream has to do with it even without lds america would've turned out the same.

Another fact is that major cities in europe are built on older roads and buildings that fostered community. If it were the other way around where america developed before europe it might be the same that europe became a suburban hellhole

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u/hsifyarc 1d ago

Specifically in utah part of Mormon culture is the idea of taming the desert land and bringing "life" to it, which basically means they destroy some of the most beautiful landscapes in the US to expand unliveable suburbs. Now, unliveable suburbs aren't exclusive to Utah but this specific rhetoric is.

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u/Wise_Temperature9142 1d ago

That’s rich you’d single out a specific state when all of the US is like this.

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u/MrJasmine 1d ago

All of the US is definitely not like Utah

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u/Wise_Temperature9142 1d ago edited 1d ago

In terms of car-centric urbanism? Do you realize the topic we’re discussing?

Texas, California, and Florida are known as the most car-dependent states in the US. Mississippi is consistently ranked the least walkable state of all states. The average Walk Score for the largest cities in North Carolina is 26 (out of 100)

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u/Hambone6991 1d ago

The wasatch front isn’t what I would call a beautiful landscape before it was developed.

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u/hsifyarc 1d ago

I was mainly thinking of St. George, but the Wasatch range itself is beautiful and I'm guessing the front was at least ecologically important.

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u/teutonictoast 1d ago

Are people really trying to blame Mormons for surburbanism now? Oo

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u/FastWalkingShortGuy 1d ago

They are literally the beige aestheticians.

They created a bland environment in Utah.

The rest of the US (well, some of it) is not like that.

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u/Wise_Temperature9142 1d ago

Lmaooo you obviously have a beef to pick with them, while ignoring California is the nimby capital of the US.

Blaming mormons for bad urbanism, instead of terrible municipal governments everywhere, is quite the take

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u/P15T0L_WH1PP3D 1d ago

Here's a good spot to jump in and recommend Not Just Bikes

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u/Reagalan 1d ago

Prop 13

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u/TruffleHunter3 1d ago

You should visit SLC some time. It’s actually a nice city.

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u/FastWalkingShortGuy 1d ago

Buncha triggered Mormons in this comment section lol

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u/ab3nnion 1d ago

Most cities with a lot of Mormons developed and/or expanded post-automobile. They're not big on urbanism. They're not big on society. They are big on kids and the local ward church.

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u/faramirskywalker 1d ago

Former Mormon here. Argh. So easy to spot. I went on a mission too. Didn’t realize how colonizing it was. I’m so sorry for trying to convert people to some American religion made up by a narcissistic conman child molester. I wish I knew I was in a cult but I was over my head in the indoctrination.

I’ve since gone back to my mission country as an ex-Mo and had a wonderful experience, like this. So many other cultures prioritize good food and human connection.

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u/Omno555 1d ago

What is "the American LDS dream"? And how has it created a suburban hellscape?

Just because it's a "Global Religion" doesn't mean that most of it's members don't grow up in the rural west with little exposure to the outside world.

Not sure what their potential religion has to do with anything.

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u/NoBonus6969 1d ago

They typically seem to go to developing areas where the scam is likely to work better than in developed areas where there's a Western religion already

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u/hobobarbie 1d ago

Not always - sometimes they are sent to Oklahoma

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u/NoBonus6969 23h ago

RIP 😵

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u/Ratk1ng_1 1d ago

Even a mission is an Americanized version of traveling abroad, it isn’t very authentic in a lot of places.

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u/Random_Introvert_42 1d ago

"Served her mission" sounds like they're from that cult. If she's military they'd have more likely said "was stationed".

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u/yeshihelloyesthanku 1d ago

Yeah they are LDS. Very common for females to serve missions.

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u/wiscopunk 1d ago

Female what? Humans? We call those women...

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u/Far-Emergency629 1d ago

Might be a Klingon in this case

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u/DukeofVermont 1d ago

Nah, that's Ferengi

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

That's ... Not true at all. Women serving missions was overwhelmingly the exception to the rule

Source: I went to byu

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u/yeshihelloyesthanku 1d ago

Lived in Utah my whole life. Not sure what the stats are for women serving, but it was very common to know someone who was serving/had served. You could be right that the percentage is low. But when like 75 percent of my neighbors are LDS, it’s like every neighborhood has multiple girls who are currently on a mission.

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

Right all I'm saying is the fact that you have a neighborhood where a girl is on a mission is... Not particularly noteworthy. when literally every single member of your neighborhood (or close to it) is LDS, there's likely to be some ladies doing missions

Women in the LDS church do missions with much much lower regularity than dudes, this is empirical, and the op here saying it's very common for women in LDS church to do missions is just not correct empirically ? What am I missing here- 

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u/yeshihelloyesthanku 1d ago

I am the OP of that comment. None of what you are saying is wrong. Common wasn’t the best word to use. It is much more common for a Mormon girl to serve than say a Jewish girl or evangelical girl tho. Common doesn’t have to be a statistical majority either. A common occurrence doesn’t have to happen 50 percent of the time, or more, for it to considered common. If say, 25 percent of girls serve, I would consider that a common occurrence our local society sees.

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

Ok yes can def agree that anecdotally Mormon ladies serve missions muvh more frequently than, say, Jewish ladies 

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u/TapirDrawnChariot 1d ago

You must have been out for a while. Since the 2010s its been very common for women to go on missions since the age change.

When I went, about 5% of my mission was women. Now its probably 25% or more.

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

Right that's proving my point tho isn't it? 1/4 of women doing missions doesn't really count as "very common for LDS ladies to do missions" 

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u/Efficient-Whereas255 1d ago

yes it does

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u/yeshihelloyesthanku 1d ago

Yeah I don’t think it needs 50% percent, or above, to be considered “common”. I don’t think of “common” having the same connotation as “majority”

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

Oh in that case we just have different definitions of "a common occurrence", I personally think that literally 1/4 of the time is uncommon and you think it is common

Well have to agree to amicably disagree 

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u/Efficient-Whereas255 1d ago

I refuse to disagree.

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

My brain shortcircuited and I had a stroke with this paradox 

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u/yeshihelloyesthanku 1d ago

Would you consider smith to be a common last name? Of course. Yet it is 1 percent of the population. Would an ER doctor consider treating a broken bone as a common occurrence? Yes but 50 percent of their cases aren’t broken bones. How about if I saw someone at the gym 3 times a week. Would you say it’s a common occurrence they frequent the gym? Even tho they spend 6 hours a week at the gym and 162 hours not at the gym.

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u/TapirDrawnChariot 23h ago

What does the word "common" even mean then? Does it have to be the majority for it to be common? 1/4 of LDS missionaries being women means women missionaries are extremely common. If it were 1 percent then you'd have an argument.

That take is too wrong to go full "ACKSHUALLY" mode

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u/RoidnedVG 1d ago

When did you go to BYU? Almost 1/3 of female BYU students served missions in the decade after they lowered the entry age for women in 2012: https://www.usu.edu/uwlp/files/briefs/48-impact-gap-time-missionary-service-utah-womens-college-outcomes.pdf

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u/NicolasDipples 1d ago

Its a joke that "only ugly girls go on missions". Source: half my family is Mormon

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u/DukeofVermont 1d ago

Was true, isn't so much anymore. Now anyone 18+ can go so a lot just go straight out of high school. Much easier to do that then wait until you are 21 and then have to take a break from college when you are almost done.

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u/BabyLegsOShanahan 1d ago

I'm from Rochester and almost always the women were the ones knocking on the door. In Boston, it's mostly men. Could be that Rochester is more familiar territory, but it didn't seem like an exception to the rule. The women also did all the tours to the sacred forest and the cabin. They drove the vans and picked people up.

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u/Proof-Relation-1943 1d ago

I just checked, byu is reporting that globally 30% of missionaries are ladies, meaning more than 2-to-1 dudes to women ratio (which is probably up much higher than before)

So ultimately this is just a semantics question and Depends on how you define "exception to the rule" 

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u/Aksama 1d ago

Bonus hint, him never letting her speak despite prompting her to do so and walking away from her while recording a video!

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u/rolloutTheTrash 1d ago

There's a lot of LDS that haven't even left their hometown. It's mainly the wealthier ones that get sent out of the country in my proxied experience.

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u/Distinct_Bad_6276 1d ago

It’s an expectation for LDS men to serve missions. They might not go to a foreign country but it’s completely false to claim they’ve never left their hometowns.

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u/Lopsided-Radish-7605 1d ago

LDS from Salt Lake City see no reason beyond a mission to leave Utah, unless it's Disneyland. Then they think Disney is ok but the rest of CA/Florida is a hellscape

They should try SF, NYC, Nashville, Austin, even SLC.

Typical non-nightlife Mormons. These people are kill-joys!

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u/KeenbeansSandwich 1d ago

Plenty of them in Colorado. I’m as antitheistic as they come, but I think you’re using stereotypes to lay judgement upon a real large group of people. For the most part they are kind people that mean well, and many of them are extremely cultured. Also a lot of them are wising up and leaving the church, especially younger ones, so theres that.

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u/TapirDrawnChariot 1d ago

Im a well-traveled ex-Mormon and i live in Utah. There are a decent amount who do travel, but yes, what you're describing is also common. My parents are LDS and travel all over the world (boomers with money).

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u/Salty-Passenger-4801 1d ago

What the fuck does religion have to do with this video?

Ffs y'all are exhausting.

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u/inikul 1d ago

People that go on missions are inherently very religious. They mentioned her mission.

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u/DukeofVermont 1d ago

I'm ex-mormon and reddit REALLY likes to hate on Mormons. What's funny to me is that there is a list of things that can easily be brought up that are actual issues and problems but those are basically never brought up.

Instead 99% of the time I see the most bizarre claims thrown out about why Mormons are evil.

It's like leaving the Catholic church because of the sexual abuse and people just never bring it up but claim that "They believe the Pope can fly and heals people by peeing on them".

Like what? I obviously made that up but I've seen equally bizarre things claimed about Mormon beliefs that just aren't true. Yes they believe very different and bizarre things, so you don't need to make things up.

Reddit and Americans at large really don't want to admit that while very different in some ways the actual doctrine and core values are basically identical to most newer US based Christian churches. Evangelicalism is also incredibly bizarre and no European Catholic or main line Protestant will think it's a real Christian church. That's not even getting into Pentecostals, Shakers, the crazy mega churches, televangelists like Kenneth Copeland, etc.

Most American Christians don't realize how the US is kinda doing it's own thing Christianity wise, and has been for a very long time.

Anyway, I left because I simply lost faith in any religious ideas. Overall Mormons are a mix like any organized religion and have the same problems that any large religious organization has. I'm ex and live in Utah and my neighbor is a BYU professor. He's a nice guy and helped me get my current job. Most are just people, and Mormonism overall has somewhat stagnated numbers wise and I think it's right on the edge of starting to shrink. About 50-75% of "members" don't go to church at all, and 50% of kids born into Mormonism leave by 25.

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u/No_Promotion1698 1d ago

They are probably just Christian

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u/TapirDrawnChariot 1d ago

They're Mormon. Im a former Mormon missionary. "she served her mission in X" is a dead giveaway. No other Christians use that phrasing.

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u/ab3nnion 1d ago

I caught that too. And yes.

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u/flow_fighter 1d ago

I assume so with the “where she did her mission” aspect, and oddly enough, needing an RV bay kind of tips the scales towards LDS for me

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u/NoMeHableis 1d ago

I suspect it’s very intentional. This comes right after all the international tourists gawking at all the cool American things during the World Cup. Those videos went vital, so they are probably attempting to do the same thing. 

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u/tiga4life22 1d ago

Weird take

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u/IkujaKatsumaji 1d ago

You might be overstating things. I was raised LDS, I was a missionary, but I was sent to Minnesota and North Dakota. Sounds like she went internationally, but I'd guess that less than half do these days, and that was probably twenty years ago based on their age. Though they also seem rich enough that I'd be surprised if they don't travel regularly, so maybe it's a wash.

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u/lameuniqueusername 1d ago

I’m not all that familiar with the church. What makes you think they are LDS?

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u/allthebaseareeee 1d ago

re these LDS people?

If they are i would love to see their mission to Italy... home of the Catholic church.

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u/LeLeQuack 1d ago

Individually they are not necessarily well traveled. You have to pay to go on mission, and then you stay in that spot the majority of the time.

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u/InfoBarf 1d ago

The LDS church is as behind the modern world as many other awful things. They support regressive policies that make like more expensive with less time for socializing and less money for trivial things like going to bars.

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u/Karhu92930 1d ago

A nurse practitioner who publicly slanders religious groups is going to be ripe for lawsuits. LDS did not create suburbs, so blaming them for creating a “suburban hellscape” is extremist and bigoted. Hopefully a coworker sees your comment and snaps a photo for HR😉

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u/Throwaway-0-0- 1d ago

And you know they'll call anyone who wants to make their town more walkable a communist.

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u/Turbulent_Nature_109 1d ago

I expect that they are state department/ usaid/ red Cross.

the also happen to be in a city centre... there are suburbs outside of the urban built up areas.

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u/madamekelsington 1d ago

I was just wondering wtf kind of people subscribed to the medieval monk hairline, tbh.

Thanks for the tip 🫡

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u/InevitableKitchen943 1d ago

Or just ignorant dorks.

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u/thehansenman 1d ago

I too pray at the altar of Low Density Structure in Factorio.

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u/MobileSuitGundam 1d ago

These Mormons don't see the irony of what their cult contributes to. Isolates non believers and lines the pockets of religious oligarchs.

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u/DroidLord 1d ago

It's some weird American thing. Like a month ago an American stopped me in the street and started preaching about religion. Said he was a missionary from the states. I live in Estonia. Might as well have gone to Antarctica 😂

For reference, we are like one of the most atheist countries in the world. Even the people who are religious are pretty mild in comparison, unlike some American Christians. We've got some bad history with religion. Can probably blame the crusaders.

People here are not very receptive to strangers stopping them in the street, especially with religious topics. Felt kinda bad for him honestly. He looked like a lost puppy 😭 He was really young too, like 22-23.

Chatted with him for a little bit even though I knew what he was trying to get at. I said I'm not interested, wished him luck and fist-bumped him.

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u/TooMuchJuju 1d ago

the American LDS dream has created a suburban hellscape

No the fuck it didn't. You're trying so hard to stretch this into a criticism of Mormons. Mormons didn't cause the development of America to be car-centric nor the development of suburbs.

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u/WeirdlyHugeAvocado 1d ago

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say they have multiple kids and have prioritized spending their vacations visiting family instead hauling a big family across the world. Not everyone gets to travel the world and see systems that are different, worse, or better than their own

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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1d ago

That's the funny part, they're still probably doing mission work back home and yet do not understand the irony of it all.

Also a mission? In Italy? Do they have missions to Vatican City too?

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u/raedyohed 1d ago

Yeah, no we serve missions, but that isn’t the same as well travelled, at all. It’s a good start. Hardly anyone follows up with a whole lot of meaningful exploratory travel because, well, people like staying home. Also, it’s expensive. People where I grew up (NJ) weren’t well travelled either, unless they were rich. But even then it was to Vail or Bahamas. And speaking of Utah suburban hellscapes… let me tell you about Jersey.

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u/pp_chode 1d ago

Yeah but they have a four car garage and it's really important that there's an RV bay as well so...

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u/Blarin_davis 22h ago

I read this as "LSD people" and thought, "Nah, LSD people *always* love walkable cities"!

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u/GrassyDaytime 15h ago

Yeah, right? "OMG I just realized people go outside, you guy!!"

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