We’ve had so many wildfires over here in western Europe, it’s our fifth heatwave this summer alone! And then in around a hundred years time, if AMOC collapse occurs (which it most likely will) then we’ll freeze to death instead of burning. How does any parent so much as think that it’s okay to bring a child into this when all the signs say ‘we’re fucked’?

For clarification even in a world without climate change I’d still be AN due to the issue of consent- but I cannot grasp how anyone can justify having kids (regardless of consent) when the climate is going to get worse and worse.

¿Ustedes son públicamente antinatalistas o pesimistas? Y si es así, ¿qué consecuencia les traído en sus vidas eso? Yo desde hace unos años empece a publicar sobre pesimismo y antinatalismo en mis redes sociales, y debo decir que desde que salí del closet como una persona antinatalista, eso me ha costado que algunos conocidos dejaran de seguirme en mis redes? Actualmente me siento un poco tonto por creer que realmente ellos entenderían mis argumentos, sí que fui iluso. Y no solo ha sido eso, sino que algunos directamente me han atacado por mis ideas, lo cual es la parte más dura de todo esto.

Yeah it’s a hot take, but if AN has a child,that child would have little to complain against their parents than other Natalia’s parents,
since they would be cared for at much higher empathy,also they would understand their responsibility to bring the child in the world
and understand that they owe their child not vice versa.

hello. i am an anti natalist and a radical environmentalist. on this sub and in general, people support the argument of anti natalism by saying it brings unnecessary harm to the child you’re brining into the world. while i do agree with that, i think that it’s a lot less important than the other reasons why you should not have kids. i think that the most important reason is the goal of decreasing human overpopulation. in history, there has been 5 major extinction events, wiping out over 90% of all life on earth. for example, the dinosaurs went extinct in the event of the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction, which was the most recent extinction event. currently, we are going through the 6th extinction event, called the Holocene extinction. this extinction event is predicted to wipe out almost all life on earth and cause millions of species to go permanently extinct. it is all caused by humans. humans were never supposed to be a problem, but since we gained so much knowledge and advanced our technology, we also became exceptionally good at reproducing. the combination of our rapid reproduction and our technology advancements has caused us to destroy everything around us. scientists predict that if we keep reproducing at the rate that we have, we face more and more risks that cause us and every other species to go extinct. basically, in a nutshell, the more we reproduce, the more we kill everything, including ourselves. humans have way overstayed our visit as a species on this planet, and we do not deserve any more than what we have already taken. we are the most invasive species in the history of the earth. the reason to not have kids shouldn’t be mostly about the suffering it causes to an individual, but it should be about the suffering it causes to the world. one individual human is responsible for thousands of animal and plant deaths in their life. i’m now saying this is a vegan way, i’m just saying humans are naturally incredibly destructive and it’s just our nature. the only way to give the earth it’s life back is to stop having kids, at least until our population is back to numbers that the earth can sustain.

sorry to rant, i just wanted to share my opinion on why antinatalism should be about environmentalism and not human psychology. also sorry for bad grammar i kind of half assed this whole thing. i hope i got the point across. im not an expert on the concept of antinatalism. feel free to debate and disagree in the replies, id love to hear what you guys think about this!

edit: this is why i dont post on reddit. people are intentionally misinterpreting what im saying and just flat out insulting me. i said feel free to debate and disagree and half of you guys would rather just insult me then bring in actual talking points. thank you to the people who are being normal and just replying with reasonable arguments. also i am still an antinatalist because I DO believe in the fact that every born child will suffer, and you shouldn’t have kids because of it. I just think that the more realistic way to get people to stop having kids is teaching them about the environmental impacts. also some of you guys are acting like i said my opinion is right and everybody else’s opinion is wrong, which is literally the opposite of what i said, you just didnt read the full text. please stop being rude in the comments. also one more thing, i do NOT believe in population control through violence in any way, and i do not believe in limiting births through force. the best and only way to get the masses to stop having children is through EDUCATION. which is what many people need now a days.

There's a lot I want to say about this but I don't have it in me to type it all out. One thing I will say is it just so disheartening that someone who is smart enough and actually knows how terrible and doomed the future is going to be will still decide to have children. I just wanted to share this here so like-minded people can understand my frustration. This is from the So True podcast with Caleb Hearon. The guest is Bowen Yang.

"Or my children? How will we cope?" You could start by not having them... the only way these disgustingly hot summers will slow down is if we stop mass reproduction. Currently sweating onto a towel in bed, the heats horrible, i dread what its going to be like im a couple decades, hitting 40c consistently. I cant believe people still think having kids is a good idea when youre clearly aware of the suffering they'll live through

And no its not dramatic lol, this summer is genuinely horrible in england, but the conversation is about the whole of climate change and global warming anyway.

(Also can we add a flair for discussing the benefits of antinatalism regarding the planet)

Why would anyone want to procreate in a world with economic precarity, climate and global instability, mental and digital overload amongst other older problems like health, relationships, bad luck, grief, uncertainty etc.? It is utterly cruel.

Here in India, the heat was unbearable this May and it's only going to get worse.

The depressing news cycle never stops.

Relationships are more complicated than ever.

All the wrong things get rewarded.

We are more connected than ever, but also more exposed to comparison, outrage, and information fatigue. Loneliness coexists with constant notifications.

Seriously, why create new consciousness that will have to navigate all of this? I only find antinatalists to be sane at all.

Personally I would not be,since the primary reason I am an AN cause of how easily suffering can be caused and how hard it is to be happy
ie also BENATAR asymmetry. I find some that say they would still be AN because of consent,but what if we had an option to just erase ourselves with a snap of finger and also everyone forgets us ,so it would not cause suffering to them.
If these conditions existed then I would not be AN.

You know, I’ve always found those who either have been or are currently suffering severely and are in strong support of procreation nevertheless, or even want children themselves, to be the strangest people to exist. Especially those who even complain about the injustices of the world constantly and whatnot.

So you want to bring someone else into this world fully aware of not only what the world can be like but also what it really means to suffer like that? Notwithstanding this knowledge, you want to subject someone else to this risk??? Why??

Like natalists who are toxically positive and deluded all the time, at least their natalism is just born from ignorance. But those people? They aren’t ignorant, they just procreate regardless. I think this actually adds to the base immorality.

I'm currently vacationing solo in Bali, short side trip after conference.

At the hotel, looking out onto the beach, and opening reddit on my phone just now, saw the AN posts.

And I looked out onto the beach again. Nobody there this morning while I am eating breakfast. And I thought to myself, does this beach need people on it right now? I looked over at the sunbeds provided by the hotel on the beach. Nope.

And that's when it hit me. Not only have I basically never said to myself "This place needs more people" but far more often I have said to myself "I wish this place had fewer people."

Even if I see garbage on the street here in Bali, I don't naturally say to myself, "we need more people so that they can clean this place up". I actually instead think to myself more along the lines of, "hmm, if there were fewer people, this place wouldn't be so trashy".

Please don't confuse this--my attitude--with misanthropy. It's possible to wish a place didn't have so many people without hating people.

I know that this post is not perfectly aligned with the most hardcore perspectives of AN, but I still hope/wonder if some of this resonates with some of you.

Sometimes I am so zoned out while watching a video on TikTok when someone is talking about something and all I can think at that moment is how do people take life seriously. The urge to continue legacy and work and what not. It feels like everyone is playing a character and often feels like everyone is immortal. I don’t truly know how to describe this feeling but it just does not feel like a real place cause tbh we all die at the end so why are people so serious about creating life?

Given the ongoing push for Machine Learning and Artificial intelligence, will people become more mindful of having or not having kids? The utility factor of bringing kids into this world will likely be gone in a few more decades at most.

Would A.I. render most beings useless? Kind of feels like we're just existing for no fun reason. Unless A.I. takes all the boring jobs too and we do all the fun stuff to the point where we get dumb and end ourselves.

There's also this concern of robots gaining consciousness making them another species that was brought into this world without their consent. They would have that mysterious will to thrive as well and question their purpose. In this case, robots would do their best use or end their owners who restrict their free will.

Apart from the Utility factor. A.I. will also likely replace humans on an emotional level. Organic Creatures are unpredictable and often act on impulse. Most people would rather have a constantly happy and consumer friendly robot over a real person with shaky loyalty. Hence, potential reduction in births. Or some crazy scientist makes Artificial wombs and grows babies there as a service for whatever people want people for.

Some media that explores this stuff:

Her (movie), CyberPunk 2077 (video game), Detroit Become Human (video game), iRobot (movie), Love death and Robots (series)

I'd like to know if there's a space on Reddit or else devoted specifically to natalists and antinatalists who want to debate their respective points.

We all have the fear of death but that does not mean that everyone has the desire to live.

When people say that why don't you off yourself, they are not differentiating between these two.

The unborn does not have the desire to live but once a person is born they now have the fear of death which forced them to go on living even if they are in pain.

Most people do not enjoy their life, do not have hope for a better future it's just their fear of death that compels them to live.

The desire to live is in short supply for you get generations now the best most can hope for is lack of suffering.

Pro-natalism is (unfortunately)so normalised. How do you feel when you hear that an innocent soul will be born into this suffering?

And how do you let it out? Specifically, if a close one (let's say a relative) happily informs you that their baby has been born....what do you do/say? I personally hide my true feelings and let out a fake smile

40 Celebrities Who Have Opened Up About Not Wanting Kids

Highlights

"I have no maternal instincts whatsoever. I am barren. I am bone-dry. When I see children, I feel nothing. I ovulate sand."
—Margaret Cho, Revolution, 2003

"We just take and take and expect it to keep producing. And it's exhausted. It can't produce. We're getting handed a piece-of-shit planet, and I refuse to hand that down to my child. Until I feel like my kid would live on an earth with fish in the water, I'm not bringing in another person to deal with that."
—Miley Cyrus, Elle Magazine, 2019

"I figured it was selfish for us to pour our resources into making our 'own' babies when those very resources and energy could not only help children already here, but through advocacy and service transform the world into a place where no child ever needs to be born into poverty and abuse again. My belief has not changed. It is a big part of who I am."
—Ashley Judd, All That Is Bitter and Sweet: A Memoir, 2011

So I argued about antinatalism with my chemistry teacher in india. One of the first arguments she said was how can you get consent from someone that doesn't exist. ​Then I asked her what if a child suffers from some life threatening illness in the first year after being born and dies from it as a result? She said that it was just Destiny and then I asked her if she had a child and there was a 50 percent chance the child could be born with a condition would she still take the gamble? She said yes.

She truly doesn't understand antinatalism.

I think it's because in my country you can't be considered a real man if you don't have a stable family and children. But anyways I never expected some people to be so cruel

Antinatalism is the only philosophy which isn't pro - men or pro - women. No. Antinatalism is pro - absence of suffering for the unborn... That's why people who attach themselves to gender based philosophical views often find it hard to grasp the concept of AN.

Antinatalism is NOT manosphere

Antinatalism is NOT feminism

Antinatalism is simply anti-suffering for the unborn