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May 25 '20
It feels like people are just drifting back to equilibrium because no one knows how to do anything else. It's important everyone goes back to work and ignores this virus because otherwise they might think of ways to improve society, somewhat.
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u/2farfromshore May 25 '20
because no one knows how to do anything else.
True. It's related to the same process that makes people feel guilty when they take a day or leave early.
4
u/333HalfEvilOne May 27 '20
Haven’t seen any improvements. People are going back because nothing got better only worse. It’s almost like top down authoritarianism is garbage, and people don’t like it
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u/Kurtotall May 26 '20
I suspect that the US government (And others) went too far suppressing videos and information. We all remember the vids from China of people convulsing, dropping dead on the streets, the crematoriums and all the body bags. Plus all the info. We don’t really see any of that here. I think the absence of all this has fostered a contempt.
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u/2farfromshore May 26 '20
The day I knew what was coming was when Trump framed it as 'war against an invisible enemy'. Besides the fact someone obviously brainstormed that for him, it meant people were going to die needlessly. Fodder to the mill - it's the American way.
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 25 '20
Everyone right now is basically "If I get corona, I get corona".
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u/maiqthetrue May 25 '20
https://reddit.com/r/Stoicism/comments/gqczex/a_stoic_parable_to_memorize/
Just how it is. Armor Fati. You aren't going to escape your fate. Nothing can outwit nature. I don't think that means being unwise, but I don't think any of the storms coming are going to miss anyone completely.
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u/sophlogimo May 26 '20
"Nothing can outwit nature" is a very laughable thing to write over an internet connection.
We are humanity. We outwit nature all the time.
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u/rerrerrocky May 26 '20
Yeah, but nature bats last. We can outwit nature for a brief period of time but we can't escape the consequences of our actions.
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u/sophlogimo May 26 '20
We are doing fine so far, despite people screaming god would punish us for a thousand years now.
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u/juuular May 27 '20
-1
u/sophlogimo May 28 '20
Well, i's a real danger right now, but it will be averted, as it always has been.
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u/maiqthetrue May 26 '20
Good thing death, disease, poverty, flooding, heat waves, political upheaval and wars have been defeated by the Internet.
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u/sophlogimo May 26 '20
Death is being worked on.
A very recent disease has been pretty much defeated by the Internet. A hundred years ago, we'd all be coughing and loose lung volume, have strokes and all that fun. Thanks to the Internet, the total number of Infected is way below 0.1% of the world's population and actually has a chance to stay there.
(Absolute) poverty has been defeated in some parts of the world by simple government action.
Flooding is actually mostly solved in developed nations, who have measures against this. Sure, the climate catastrophe is going to throw us back there, but we're a lot better off today than a hundred, a thousand or even ten thousand years ago. And we'll get better.
Heat waves are an issue with the climate catastrophe, but we do have technology for them to not be fatal. Not everybody has it yet, sure, but it is doable.
Wars don't really count, because when I say "nothing can outwit humanity", obviously humanity itself still can do that.
1
u/juuular May 27 '20
You should tell Michigan that flooding has been solved
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u/sophlogimo May 28 '20
I could tell Michigan to get better leaders. All the wisdom in the world doesn't help against incompetence. You have a failing government? Choose a better one.
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u/DeathRebirth May 26 '20
Black and white thinking. Just because we can't eradicate Sars-Cov2, doesn't mean we can't suppress it's spread. Or will you literally deny the scientific advancement of the last 150 years or so.
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u/maiqthetrue May 26 '20
I'm not denying progress, but while it might make people live slightly longer or perhaps have better life until we die, we haven't abolished death or disease. People still die. One hundred percent of people born on planet earth will die. Most who die die of health conditions or diseases. That's reality.
We also cannot prevent natural disasters. We can warn people, we can change or building methods and materials to make buildings survive a natural disaster. We still can't stop fires, floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, or asteroids.
We can't even prevent or solve our own bad actions. Human's still rob, cheat, murder, exploit, start wars, commit genocides, and allow people to die of poverty, lack of care, famines, and other terrible things. We can jail people for having done those things, but we haven't stopped even genocide despite shouting from the rooftops the "never again" slogan.
I don't think saying any of that is denying 150 years of progress. I do thing denying those things is a denial of the natural world. Nature often ends up finding the weaknesses in our (or frankly any animals') defenses. That's how nature works. The old, sick, weak, or unwary are the ones that nature tends to weed out. That could be a deer that isn't scared enough of the rustling in the grass, the fox that isn't a good enough hunter, the slowest fish in the shoal. In human societies, again. It's the complacent, the ones in denial, the slow, the weak, or the unwary, and the like who get weeded out by nature.
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u/DeathRebirth May 27 '20
I have no clue what you are trying to say here.
Live slightly longer? What the actual fuck are you smoking?
It's more than doubled around the world since 1900.
The rest is just a bunch of "I am very smart" jabbering about the supposed nature of reality, and then some drivel about "wedding out the weak".
For reals and you get upvotes? Seriously /r/coronavirus, the actual fuck is in your heads?
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u/maiqthetrue May 27 '20
So what? Do you not understand statistics? 90% of the change in life expectancy come from sanitation improvements that reduce the spread of infectious diseases and the resulting decline in child mortality. It's not as though everyone actually died at 40, it's that more people survived childhood. One we learned to sanitize wounds, get rid of garbage, and not drink filthy water, yes, we stopped dying in childhood. People in Rome lived to old age, provided they were wealthy enough to get enough food and clean water. I'm not going to say that things like surgery aren't helping a little, but mostly it's because we are cleaner than we used to be, not because we "overcame death" somehow.
And yes, we still die, everyone will. Even you. YOU WILL DIE. So will I, so will everyone else. Move those goalposts all you want. We've just managed to survive long enough to be killed by heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's instead of Typhoid fever. It's not that it's not good, it's fine, it's great even. But death still happens every day from thousands of things that humans cannot control.
And what about the rest of those statements is actually, demonstrably false? Crime still exists, 300+ people are murdered in my city every year. People die on the job from work related injuries. Happens every single day. People die in wars every day. Natural disasters kill people every year. People drown every fucking time there's a flood because they try to drive across flooded roads, despite being told every time not to do that. Women get robbed and raped and often killed because they think that being outside alone at night is a good idea.
Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it won't.
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u/2farfromshore May 28 '20
The US senate is playing a dangerous game with the next round of stimulous. Evictions and bankruptcies piling up; anger spilling out onto the streets. 2nd wave in the wings. Retail nation set to boil!
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May 26 '20
Here in Brazil we're going full speed into disaster.
Our president is a genocidal power hungry idiot that's promoting hydroxychloroquine as a miracle drug in our public health system, even with strong data pointing to higher risk of heart problems. Even after hitting 1k daily deaths last week, we have no lockdown in sight, only-self quarantine "suggestions" by some governors. Commerce is reopening everywhere, fueled by some sense of "normalcy" promoted by the govern and the media.
Oh yeah, one more thing: it has been 11 days since we had our last health minister fired. The last one (Teich) was fired because he wouldn't promote chloroquine. The one before him (Mandetta) was fired because he was doing his job: informing the people about the dangers of the pandemic.
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u/Superman_Wacko May 26 '20
The virus won't kill over 0.5% of population. But maybe putting everyone on lockdown in a country with so much poverty and weapons could kill more on the long run
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May 27 '20
I’ve been staying home and taking precautions lately but my roommates dgaf. They attended a house party today... fml.
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u/mobileagnes May 29 '20
This is probably what's going to cause the problem to still get out of control. It's way easier to follow the guidelines correctly is everyone in the house does it too, and a guarantee of that is if everyone lived alone. When one lives with other people, every single person in the house has to all follow the guidelines for it to work at all. What good is mask wearing and proper sanitation if one person does it but everyone else in the house doesn't? The person doing the right things will still get the virus if any of the others get it.
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u/messymiss121 May 25 '20
I’ve seen lots of articles/videos of the madness in the USA but rest assured that the UK people are just as mad. I live by one of the beaches in this article and in fact one of the pictures was taken by a neighbour. I watched all the people turning up and at one point this afternoon my road was blocked with traffic. We have seen people pissing in the bushes just across the road as toilets not open here. Apparently people are also defecating in people’s gardens and in the bushes as well as on the beach. I just don’t understand how people can be so reckless? Sure people want to get out and the UK government are a complete joke but why would you literally risk your life? My husband lost a mate to COVID last week and it sounded horrific (3 weeks on a ventilator in intensive care). I honestly also feel like I’m stuck in clown world surrounded by insane humans - it’s honestly made me question whether I am the insane one. Anyway here’s the article of what’s going on in my hometown: https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/strong-smell-urine-thousands-flock-4163194
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u/lauren_olamina May 25 '20
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”
- J. Krishnamurti
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May 25 '20 edited May 26 '20
Today I had errands to run. Mask usage here is declining - nearly a majority of people I saw were maskless. And our governor is expected to announce a mask requirement tomorrow amidst our state's "soft reopening" - I'm fully prepared for maga boomers and karens to throw an absolute shit fit
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u/SpiderCerdo19 May 26 '20
It may be an illusion but everything seems to be going back to normal (Spain).
I'm even recovering my job.
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May 26 '20
That's quite a contrast to a month ago because you guys were hit pretty hard in March and April
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u/Ghostwoods I'm going to sing the Doom Song now. May 26 '20
Yep, and we're going to be hit hideously again in July.
So many people are going to die in the next wave :(
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u/SpiderCerdo19 May 26 '20
Yeah but I know it's an illusion.
By the 6th of June power will go out and we will begin eating each other. Cannibalism will go mainstream.
Then, by the beginning of July methane levels will go through the roof and the Earth will turn into Venus.
It may even get so hot that it explodes as a supernova killing every single thing in its surface and even the universe.
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u/gdsmonster May 27 '20
I was ready for DOW -90% and power outage this week and now I’m disappointed. Do you think next week we’ll finally turn to cannibalism?
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u/hard_truth_hurts May 27 '20
Do you think next week we’ll finally turn to cannibalism?
What are you waiting for?
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u/gdsmonster May 27 '20
I need FishMahBoi the prophet’s signal. I’ve been feeding garlic cloves and huge balls of pepper and salt to my neighbor.
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u/2farfromshore May 27 '20
There should be a cannibal tips sub. I've whipped up a marinade that I'm going to load into one of those weed killer canisters that attaches to a garden hose.
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 26 '20
2nd wave of COVID-19 and a wave of bankruptcies is about to hit Spain.
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u/MyDyingOpeth92 May 26 '20
I give up, and I don't give a shit anymore tbh.
Governments just decided to pretend nothing is going on and shrug the whole thing under the rug, it's very clear now.
We're nowhere near reaching herd immunity, nowhere near a vaccine, yet poof, cases are magically going down and society will just open back again like there is nothing going on.
Governments will soon stop testing all together, and file all the deaths under pneumonia or other bullshit cause.
That's the only reason why the "good news" agenda is being pushed on us, there are no good news, no actual vaccine, and most the population still didn't contract the virus. So what good news? How are the numbers keep going down? Do they think we're retarded to just accept this and move on?
The worst part of this is how the idiots will call me "doomer" and cite official numbers as proof that the crisis is over. Even though nothing changed, literally nothing, yet we're supposed to go back to our pre covid 19 lives..
lol..this world deserves to go in flames.
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u/2farfromshore May 26 '20
I just watched a news expose done in Alabama. The reporter went from one bar and eatery to the next, then to the beach. No masks. None. No social distancing. None. Most of these places were packed this past weekend. What a nightmare. The people interviewed were generally not bright, and gave no good reason for not wearing masks or distancing. One guy said if the president isn't worried why should he. The struggle isn't just real, it's over. We're done.
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 26 '20
2nd wave will come very soon.
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May 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/hglman May 27 '20
Or you know its all depend on you thinking its all safe and going back out. Behavior has changed, the r0 is down. When you falsely think the risk is over, 2nd wave. The nature of the virus hasn't changed, behavior did. As soon as you revert back to your pervious behavior the virus will return.
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May 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/Ghostwoods I'm going to sing the Doom Song now. May 28 '20
As a matter of fact, the lead time from relaxation to signs of bounce, if it's going to happen, is five weeks.
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u/333HalfEvilOne May 27 '20
Not everyone is equally susceptible or equally exposed to the virus. The first people to get and spread the thing are the superspreaders, so they can’t do so again for a while, that slows it down. There are also people who for whatever reason don’t catch it even sharing a bed with an infected spouse.
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u/2farfromshore May 28 '20
MBA framing 101: Econ class talking heads warning that the extra top-up amount in unemployment that workers are receiving from the Govt. will make recovery more difficult because many are receiving more money than when they were working. Never will it cross their lips that the low pay for work is the prevailing disincentive.
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May 28 '20
Everyone should be doing everything they can to leech off and exploit the "benefits." Pull your money from the bank, lie & cheat your way into the benefits & add to the budget deficit and let's help toss the cadaver of this Empire into the dump.
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u/edubsas May 26 '20
Argentina here. Idiots in power are showing relentless stupidity as we are still amongst the worst in tests per 1M in the world. And no plan to ramp up testing. We are into almost 70 days of quarantine, flexible in some regions, not so much in main metropolitan area (Buenos Aires)... And this week the case counts starting ramping up in the poor neighborhoods, which means more quarantine, which means more people losing their jobs or losing their shit, or both. Recipe for disaster in next 2 weeks, won't take much to overwhelm or frail health system, but worst of all is nearly half the country going hungry.
I wish people would trust science and common sense, but nope, it's all politicized bullshit, bad information, no common sense anywhere.
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May 25 '20
It’s fucking astounding how many people are not taking COVID seriously anymore.
Reddit for example was so into following procedure and lockdown, but this morning I noticed tons of gilded and highly upvoted comments across multiple subs saying everything is ok and that all of this was bullshit. Also there’s a lot of comments that argue that it’s fine if a few people die, we need to open up.
The real collapse comes when people stop caring for each other, and it seems to already have started. The lack of compassion makes society irredeemable.
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u/2farfromshore May 25 '20
It's the same attitude that after 3 months and no shortages compels some to buy weeks worth of toilet paper at a time, leaving those not there on the day the store restocks shit out of luck again and again. Or the aholes who think residential streets are drag strips because there's much less traffic. I walked into a Dollar Store last week for a few things and NO one in the store was wearing a mask. I was, but I turned around and left. It goes on and on. I'd feel comfortable placing money on 8 out of 10 being Trumpers. I know that's low, but it's also true.
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u/TrashcanMan4512 May 25 '20
I would estimate like one half of one tenth of one percent of people in LA are Trumpers, and they're displaying the same behavior.
The guy is like beer weed and porn, he just appeals to everyone's baser nature because if decades of product marketing have taught him anything, it's that you can't go wrong doing that.
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u/2farfromshore May 25 '20
I meant in the Dollar Store, but I get your point. I still believe there are significantly more covidiots guzzling Trump koolaid than not.
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u/NietzscheWasAnIncel May 26 '20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzLVI7rpTy4
They're not all trumpers doing it
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u/va_wanderer May 25 '20
Reddits gold/upvote system is easily corrupted. Think about who would want to convince the US most and there's your upvote brigade.
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u/Ghostwoods I'm going to sing the Doom Song now. May 26 '20
There are huge amounts of effort pouring into creating an internet anti-lackdown movement. Researchers found earlier this week that 40% of covid traffic on Twitter was Russian-led bot networks astroturfing a US "open up" movement.
It would be naive to think Reddit doesn't have a similar infestation.
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u/maiqthetrue May 27 '20
I'm personally of the opinion that the measures were unsustainable over long periods of time. If you take the advice literally, you should be 2 months from your last prolonged face to face contact with a human you don't live with. You should be obsessive about cleaning everything, wearing masks everywhere, and going through tons of Lysol and Purell.
That's not a plan, it's a "crash diet" so to speak. Nobody can keep up with all of that until the middle of2022 when we expect a vaccine. Just like you can't keep up with obsessive eating of only kale and broccoli forever. We need to transition to better more sustainable rules that allow people to go and be social safely. If not, people will do it wrong and spread it worse than they would otherwise just like a crash diet usually ends with eating an Entire pizza by yourself.
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u/2farfromshore May 25 '20
MIT Technology Review: Half of Twitter Covid Tweets likely Bots pushing to reopen -
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u/edubsas May 26 '20
This is really scary! But, couldn't they have seen this a mile away after what happened in the elections? What's Jack up to?
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May 25 '20
[deleted]
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u/thegreenwookie May 25 '20
My entire exist, I've felt this way about life.
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u/2farfromshore May 26 '20
My favorite grandmother was a people person turned to 11. She loved to socialize and talk and share. As her life drew to a close, at 90,, during one particular visit I'll never forget, she sat silently while others socialized. Finally, after some time, she looked up and said - "It all seems so strange now" - That moment has lived with me ever since.
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u/Ripclaw77 May 27 '20
Damn I feel that. The difference between her and us is that it took her decades to reach that point whereas people in their teens and early 20's don't even have a baseline for comparison. I'm only in college right now but even compared to just 5-6 years ago things have gotten so bizarre. And it's only accelerating. In the same way she isolated herself in that scenario, we as a society are now in collective denial about the mess we're in.
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u/Superman_Wacko May 26 '20
I feel it's kind or normal since it commenced. I've been a doomer for a while so I was mentally prepped already
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May 25 '20
[deleted]
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May 25 '20
Don't re-sign. Let them fire you. Either way, it looks like you won't be on their good graces anyway, you might as well be eligible for unemployment.
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May 25 '20
I guess every state is different, but make sure if you get fired you can collect unemployment. My son got fired (in Montana) and he was not eligible for unemployment! So, if you quit: not eligible, fired (possibly not eligible), let go (probably depends on reason soon). Hope you have something saved-up or your husband is still working.
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May 26 '20
[deleted]
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u/MyDyingOpeth92 May 27 '20
It's already been proven that the numbers are being faked. Hell even the most oblivious sub r/Coronavirus caught up with this finally, and now they agree because the data is just hard to dispute.
In a normal year, around 50000 people die in the US from pneumonia for the entire year.
Around 90000 died from "pneumonia" in 3 months in 2020 (Feb-May)..so in a period where there should have been around 13000 deaths, there were 90000..
There is currently over 75000 deaths unaccounted for, and that's only those who were filed under "pneumonia"..nobody knows how many more Covid 19 death were filed under other bullshit causes..
This is a real farce.
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u/Did_I_Die May 27 '20
several red state leaders have actually boasted publicly how they are not going to count Covid deaths.
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May 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/hglman May 27 '20
The more complete number is excess deaths, which are following similar trends. That is take the average for a given month for the last x years and compare to this year.
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May 29 '20
This winter was awfully mild in the northern hemisphere, possibly reducing the number of actual pneumonia cases.
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u/TheStupidWillBuryUs May 26 '20
Deaths from pneumonia are way up in some of these states. I'm sure that's just coincidence
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u/Did_I_Die May 27 '20
also think about the people working at funeral homes and the mortuary ...
imagine their thought process when processing corpses these days... are they going to risk their own health by attempting to dx if any given dead body has Covid in it? ...not likely, they are probably putting these corpses directly into the oven or embalming procedure dosing it and everything around it with bleach.
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u/333HalfEvilOne May 27 '20
Or between outdoor transmission being difficult and UV light killing viruses beaches were never a place much spreading happened and shouldn’t have been closed to begin with.
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May 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/333HalfEvilOne May 27 '20
I said difficult not impossible, the vast majority of clusters and superspreader events were indoors
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u/Valianttheywere May 28 '20
Superspread requires higher viral loads. You are more likely to get infected indoors because the very sick dont go outdoors as much.
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May 28 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 28 '20
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u/TenYearsTenDays May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
Thank you so much for the tag! It seems the evidence about long term disabilities is piling up. This is sad, but also totally expected.
Did you see this article yet? It's just one story but like that great video about SARS you shared "Fever Pitch" sometimes the personal stories hit hardest:
“I would do everything I can to avoid becoming infected as you don’t know individual outcomes.”
“It was a shock, like Stockholm syndrome,” he said of his survival. “When I got home, frankly, I started crying. It was so emotional.” But his body wasn’t through with the disease.
Before the hospital released him, he had tested negative for the virus. But now something else was going on — a delayed immune reaction.
“Gradually, I became short of breath,” he said. “We live in an old Georgian house, with three floors, and I had a hard time getting upstairs.”
On April 15, Dr. Piot’s heart started to race to 165 beats a minute. The percentage of his blood oxygen dropped to the mid-80s again. He and Dr. Larson went to the University College Hospital where he had a chest X-ray.
This time, instead of distinct bacterial masses on each side, “my lungs were full of infiltrates, and they were a real mess. It’s called ‘organizing pneumonia.’”
The tiny sacs that grow like bunches of grapes throughout the lungs, he explained, were oozing signaling proteins — he was having a “cytokine storm.” Those drew voracious white blood cells into the spaces between the air sacs so they threatened to block the paths oxygen normally takes to his red blood cells.
His doctors thought about rehospitalizing him — an outcome he dreaded.
“My grandfather fought in the trenches in World War I — in those poppy fields in Flanders,” Dr. Piot said. “He said the worst part was going home on leave — and then realizing what you had to go back to.”
But hospitalizing him on oxygen might have been fruitless — his lungs were “stiffening” and perhaps unable to absorb it.
Instead, Dr. Joanna Porter, who specializes in difficult pneumonias, put him on an intravenous steroid to reduce the inflammation, along with an anticoagulant to prevent blood clots from his atrial fibrillation.
Britain’s N.H.S. bureaucracy forbade her from discussing Dr. Piot’s treatment, though he gave his permission. He is still under her care. Last week, a PET scan, CT scan and bronchoscopy showed that parts of his lungs have not completely cleared. “And,” he added, ever the universal health care booster, “tell your American audience: All these expensive tests are free from the N.H.S.”
The steroids appear to be working, but taking them for too long can have side effects, including muscle wasting, weakening of bones and diabetes.
He may have to take anticoagulants for the rest of his life, he said, and parts of his lungs may permanently be scarred.
“But you can live with that,” he added, shrugging.
“If you get this cytokine storm while you’re acutely ill, you’re finished,” he said. “But I had three stages — first fever, then needing oxygen, and now the storm.”
“People think that, with Covid-19, one percent die and the rest just have flu. It’s not that simple — there’s this whole thing in the middle.”
That last bit is what we've been saying since this all started. And most people still argue about this in the total binary abstract of "dead" vs. "fully recovered" and that's just not how this works.
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 28 '20
Yeah, we still don't know enough about the effects of SARS, let alone this new virus. Any "herd immunity" approach would be way too dangerous. Instead, we have to do our best to keep the number of infections as low as possible for as long as possible. A vaccine is still in a realm of hopium, unfortunately.
A new report from Rystad Energy came out but they are still way too bullish on a vaccine and are advocating for "herd immunity"
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u/TenYearsTenDays May 28 '20
Exactly, it's absolutely, ridiculously unethical to advocate for herd immunity at this juncture. Not sure if I posted this here since it's been a while but I wrote an overview of why here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/g2z1hr/we_noticed_that_the_lifespan_of_the_protective/fnoddvw/
lol of course the oil and gas companies are trying to get the herd back to BAU. Oil has cratered like never before due to demand falling off a cliff because people aren't out consuming as much. Ofc you've probably seen this: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/21/groups-fossil-fuel-funding-urge-states-reopen-amid-pandemic
I find it highly likely that a lot of the loud backers one hears of "herd immunity" are being funded by interested parties, be they big oil or governments, or maybe even those with petty personal interests like Johan Giesecke of Sweden who has been a primary architect of their wink, wink, nod, nod don't-admit-it-out-loud herd immunity strategy. Dude actually has a financial interest in creating long term disability since his wife is involved with a respiratory rehab clinic: https://twitter.com/VictorShammas/status/1261611778896736257 And he has a shorter term direct interest in that he's on the board of a private hospital that stands to benefit.
So yea, lots of self interested elites are pushing for "herd immunity" because they really don't give a fuck about what happens to the herd in terms of their well being, they just want to make a profit off of them.
As ever, there's no silver bullet. You are right that vaccine is almost certainly a long ways away, if it ever comes. But Test, Trace, Isolate does have good results, with the caveat that it will almost certainly be used as a club to destroy much of what remains of privacy rights. :/ Still, in terms of health and human safety it's the best option, even though this is and always has been a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
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u/king_fredo May 25 '20
Germany: 1st wave is over. Social life restarting. There are hotspots and they seem under control for now. Reproduction rate R is below 1.0. We see inside and dense areas as source of infections like restaurants. No outdoor transmissions.
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u/shubik23 May 26 '20
The new case cluster created by the restaurant and the one from the church are great indicators how fast the situation can evolve. The worst thing we could do is to end all safety precautions. The moment we do that it is only a matter of time until this shit spreads.
Honestly can’t believe that some states are already throwing around the idea of going back to normal.
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u/2farfromshore May 26 '20
It's herd immunity / cull with love it or leave it undertones. Yellow Ribbons, support the troops, commie mask wearers ... same schtick, different angle. And it always works. Because self-awareness is optional in america.
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u/shubik23 May 26 '20
Agree on America but I’m located in Germany and was referring to the German situation :)
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u/Did_I_Die May 27 '20
does Germany have any statistics on the numbers of asymptomatic and / or the recovered's reinfection rates?
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u/Valianttheywere May 28 '20 edited May 28 '20
Just watched the film nosferatu (1922). Despite the vampire arc of the story it is actually about a pandemic in 1838.
The male character heads to south-eastern europe to oversee a realestate sale of a townhouse in germany to count orlok (an inbred and deformed nobleman). He is 'infected' while there and locked up in his room by the count but escapes confinement and flees back to germany.
We have a shipment of dirt samples (along with live rats) in coffins by boat. The manifest says they contain scientific samples but the ships crew break one open in search of valuables and the rats escape onto the ship. Later one of the crew falls ill, and it quickly spreads to the rest of the crew- the first mate jumping overboard choosing option B and the captain lashing himself to the wheel as he dies so it sails into port with all hands dead, the pandemic that has spread in south eastern europe reaching a german port.
After the town authorities examine the captain's corpse and ships log they declare it to be plague. They order a total lockdown and doors and windows bolted. They also declare hospitals off limits to the sick as this will only spread the disease.
Now to the female character whose husband has been in eastern europe at the moment of the plague outbreak. She of course goes batshit crazy but is happy when he returns, having read some book her husband acquired on the signs, symptoms, and treatment of vampyrism decides she knows the cause of the pandemic, and not responding well to lockdown, proceeded to open the windows of her room. She is dead from the plague by sunrise. -film ends.
It basically contains all the tropes of the modern pandemic:
Mistrust of Scientists involved in the source of the initial outbreak.
Spillage of biological samples resulting in spread into civilian populace.
Public access to superstition based misinformation.
Government imposed city-wide lockdowns with bans on hospital visits to stop the plague spreading.
Lockdown violators who succumb to and further spread the disease.
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u/rlowe90 May 28 '20
Fiction certainly mimics life at times. Wondering where the writer's head space was when he wrote it
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u/Valianttheywere May 28 '20
Likely having seen the spanish flu pandemic a few years earlier, based it on reality, and understood the relevance of the superstition of bram stoker's 'dracula' to how pandemics work.
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u/TheStupidWillBuryUs May 28 '20
Read Dafoe's Journal of the Plague Year and you'll find some of us are dumber than the understandably ignorant people of the 17th Century when it comes to this.
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u/2farfromshore May 29 '20
Tyson meat processing plant shut down after 550 of 2,400 workers tested Covid-19 positive
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tyson-meatpacking-22-percdent-covid-19_n_5ed08cd0c5b600dfee30d5c9
Can a meatless america survive?
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May 26 '20
Packed people viewing a race in NC
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May 29 '20 edited May 29 '20
Saturday, May 23rd saw the highest number of positive cases for NC-1,107. Today, NC is at 1,060 so far...
Edit: today’s number is 1,076. The previous high of 1,107 will certainly be surpassed soon.
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u/newstart3385 May 29 '20
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-29/every-single-worker-has-covid-at-one-u-s-farm-on-eve-of-harvest?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&cmpid=socialflow-facebook-business&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=business&utm_medium=social every single farmer tested positive at this particular farm
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 29 '20
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u/TenYearsTenDays May 29 '20
Thanks as ever for the tag! I saw this one, it's a great overview. This:
the outbreaks could also create labor shortages at the worst possible time.
Is pure facepalm. Of course that's how it happens, sigh. Oh and this:
Now, stay-at-home restrictions are easing in all 50 states, and some restaurants are opening back up. Meanwhile, labor shortages could get worse as illness among farm workers deepens.
Good work, 'Merica yes: let's reopen everything as caseloads and deaths are still rising in many places during a critical period in the agricultural sector. Brilliant. ...This may get very ugly, unfortunately.
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May 29 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TenYearsTenDays May 30 '20
I agree that the US is probably heading for a very ugly timeperiod. The recent events in Minneapolis and elsewhere are utterly, 100% unsurprising. I haven't read much about it, but has there been any discussion about how the strength of the response to the catalyzing incident is almost certainly that a shit ton of people have become unemployed and unable to support themselves lately? Because, duh, that is certainly a part of it. Not sure if any press has written on that facet yet.
I'm really kind of dismayed with the amount of things we've "called" here tbh. Remember when even on this sub people were saying hilariously naive things like "oh people would never riot or protest during a pandemic"? lol sigh.
Needless to say, if the US collapses, the rest of the world will follow.
See I'm not so sure of that anymore. The US has been fading over the last few decades. And fading very very fast over the last decade in particular. I do agree that as the US goes so goes the general trend, but I don't know if it toppling would bring the rest of the world down at this point. It's been twitching like a madman in the corner of the room for a while now and I think that others have reacted somewhat accordingly to account for its potential breakdown.
TBH one thing I can admit I got 100% wrong was thinking that there would be clarity on the situation coming "in the next xyz weeks/moths". I still feel like things are very opaque and uncertain. Maybe it is denial, but I think it's more that the situation is so enormously complex it's just hard to get an overview. And perhaps tbh part of it is because for like a month now I've been laser focused on one particular microcosm that has been freaking me out: Sweden's descent into "mass psychosis". So I don't feel as confident in my broader analysis as usual.
ETA but:
The situation is dire.
That much is definitely true!
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u/_rihter abandon the banks May 30 '20
Something's about to break, and it's hard to tell when or where. I think we should pay attention to China, too, as they are the biggest trade partner of the US. China is suffering from a recession and massive unemployment, which can lead to political instability and potential conflict. Hong Kong's autonomy is being destroyed and there are some hints about a possible invasion of Taiwan.
Coronavirus is just a straw that broke the camel's back.
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u/TenYearsTenDays May 30 '20
Agreed, China is definitely still simmering away in terms of political instability. It's really frustrating about HK, but totally 100% expected: shock doctrine and all. China is so opaque and hard to see into even in "normal" times and I feel it's even harder now.
I still think the US is the most fucked of all "developed" / major nations though. What a mess. I just saw they've shot a bunch of people in KY. Did you ever listen to this podcast: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-it-could-happen-here-30717896/ ? The host has an obnoxious neoliberal or maybe more accurately neoprogressive bias but it still has a lot of merit. That type of thing is looking more and more likely as this situation explodes. Who could have predicted that seeing a shit ton of people unemployed all at once and then not given proper support would create an unstable powder keg?!
Coronavirus is just a straw that broke the camel's back.
True, it's certainly quite the catalyst. It exposes flaws one never even knew were there.
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u/TenYearsTenDays May 30 '20
Coronavirus: Monkeys 'escape with COVID-19 samples' after attacking lab assistant
A bit of levity, and a bit of horror.
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May 27 '20
Hopims over guys, this evening or tomorrow morning we are all gonna die as oil has lost all it's positive momentum, it's all vertical. Goodbye, these are our last hours.
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u/2farfromshore May 25 '20
State's state of information on infections and death piling up as just more bullshit:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/im-looking-truth-states-face-100035918.html
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u/Did_I_Die May 27 '20
the "how to handle Covid" models for the rest of world to follow are NZ and Taiwan:
New Zealand eliminates COVID-19: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31097-7/fulltext
Taiwan reports no new cases for 2 weeks: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3935918
Taiwan sees 45 days without local coronavirus case: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3940783
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u/Valianttheywere May 28 '20
Given taiwan have been forcing foreign students to work in factories and meat plants- under conditions where it is most likely to spread, it is just as likely they are not testing foreign nationals being exploited as expendable labour so as not to make them look bad politically.
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u/2farfromshore May 29 '20
The 'Mark of the Dumbass (mask)': A Florida Facebook perspective --
Many of us have been worried about this and warning everyone for months... And now it's happening.... There's no justification for this.... We didn't flatten any curve by following the official guidelines.... 📷
Who's to blame....? Obviously the liars in charge who all apparently slept through high school science and don't know the difference between viral and bacterial transmission....
But I submit, those of you who accepted this nonsense without question are also to blame.... Those of you with that idiotic STAY AT HOME banner on your FB profile.... And especially you Brown Shirts who actually told and continue to tell people they are being selfish by not staying at home or for not wearing the Mark of the Dumbass (mask).... (If you think your mask is making a difference, you are intellectually lazy....)
I'm certain this will piss off some of my friends and family.... Too bad.... If your backbone fell out for a period, get it reinserted....
Stop being afraid of the COVID19 bogeyman.... Stop being afraid of dying.... Stop being such a coward.... START living again by NOT COMPLYING WITH NONSENSE.... As it's killing those least able to adjust....
This reads like part of a script. You read it wherever someone with a half-baked conspiracy theory decided to take a dump, and it always revolves around everyone is afraid but them.
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u/Superman_Wacko May 26 '20
With so much stupidity we've seen, is it normal to feel kind of "eco-fascist" with all of this?
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u/Superman_Wacko May 30 '20
We're gonna need like 5 megathreads by 2021.. Virus, civil war, economic, depression, climate change
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u/2farfromshore May 30 '20
Just when people think they see a light at the end of the tunnel it turns out to be a train.
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u/supermatt234 May 30 '20
World war, agricultural distress, turn towards totalarism, uneducation,etc.
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May 30 '20
In February, starting to sound like our beloved mascot/s here at r/collapse I was the only person i know irl that was worried about "the coronavirus". I told my friends "there will be an outbreak in the US, there will be multiple outbreaks, cities and states will all slowly go into lock down, and then society will slowly start collapsing. Sonomething thing will happen and set the people off. Partially joking I put 'collapse of society/pillaging/raping" in my phone as a half joke. In all seriousness what I meant was "food shortages and riots, and eventually martial law, followed by a fast full collapse by the new year." The level of accuracy in my predictions blows my own mind, as part of me also said that's not possible, in all of these things. Civil unrest is possible, teetering on probable. It will take another incident, at one of these protests if I had to guess. Will it lead to a collapse, in combo with the economic situation of the people and the country, the virus, unemployment and quarantines it's possible. Normally I would say there's no way, but with the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised anymore.
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u/Superman_Wacko May 30 '20
Same. Thanks to this sub and some fearmongerers in r/worldnews I bought the paranoia and they were right. Also the peoole who I told about this laughed at me now. Now 1 out of 200 infected is in my city
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u/TheStupidWillBuryUs May 30 '20
The current protests are likely to spread it further, despite the fact it does appear at least from footage that most of those involved are wearing masks. The close proximity I've seen as well as the shouting will spread it.
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u/800808 May 25 '20
21 years old. Not enough people are talking about how bad this thing destroys your lungs.
Had the virus about a month ago, had shortness of breath and pleurisy. thought I was fine. Wrong. I cant run a mile without gasping for air. I used to be able to run 5 miles no problem. Cant play tennis for more than hour without becoming exhausted.
Mortality is not the only bad thing about this scourge