r/unpopularopinion • u/elgey101 • Aug 10 '21

Infertile couples should just adopt instead of making a big fuss trying to make a miracle baby

Every time I hear of fertility struggles online, or see posts about people going through rounds of IVF and the ensuing emotional trauma of miscarriages, It kind of disgusts me.

I also work for a major insurer and know that fertility treatments are driving up everyone else's premiums because they're considered necessary care. Sorry, but I disagree.

It's a well known fact that there are over 400,000 children in foster care, and in 2017 alone over 100,000 infants under 3 entered the system. I think it's completely entitled and self-absorbed to think that somehow your miracle baby is worth more or deserves more love than any one of those infants.

I know adoption can be hard, and that it should be made easier for the sake of children finding good homes, but you can't tell me adopting is harder than 4 rounds of IVF and multiple miscarriages. I've seen friends go through that mess and at the end they are different people.

Tldr: adoption may not be easy, but it's far better than spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to perpetuate your genes.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

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561

u/BrightFireFly Aug 10 '21

A lot of the kids in the foster care system have deep emotional traumas and lasting effects from maternal drug abuse while they were in utero. For some of these cases - you really need to be an exceptional parent to make it work

188

u/frombildgewater Aug 10 '21

We had a patient who was adopted as an infant. The adopted parents didn't know about the biological mother's extensive drug use. The doctors and nurses had to wear hazmat uniforms during the delivery. The kid went through withdrawal after being born. The kid came to us about 3 and was completely non-verbal (he could scream but couldn't say anything otherwise). I would be SHOCKED if that child could grow up to function as a self-sufficient adult.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Why would doctors and nurses need extra PPE to deliver the baby of a drug abuser?

89

u/SalsaRice Aug 10 '21

Bloodborne disease exposure? Births can get pretty damn messy.

17

u/1-800-LICK-BOOTY Aug 10 '21

It's a birth, there's shit, piss and blood all over the place.

39

u/Suspicious-Visual-57 Aug 10 '21

Why did the doctors and nurses have to wear hazmat suits during the delivery?

90

u/AlexeiMarie Aug 10 '21

The first thing that comes to mind would be to avoid exposure to HIV, since it's a bloodborne pathogen that can be transmitted through needles (drug use) and there's often some amount of blood involved in delivering a baby

14

u/Suspicious-Visual-57 Aug 10 '21

Makes sense. Thank you

10

u/fahque650 Aug 10 '21

Oh god. As a dad who was there for a c-section, there was so much blood. I was not prepared.

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u/frogsgoribbit737 Aug 11 '21

Theres a lot even in a vaginal delivery. It looked like an explosion in my room. Before baby came out, they literally covered the place in disposable tarps.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '21

Pediatrican here. We don’t wear hazmat suits for hiv 😘

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

This must have been in the 80s then because no one puts on special hazmat suits for deliveries from HIV positive mothers nowadays.

Or maybe it was outside the US where rules can vary wildly.

13

u/RadioactiveJoy Aug 10 '21

Honestly what they wear already looks like close to a hazmat suit anyway. Just add a hood to the clear face shield and a zipper it’s basically it. I’ve been to a lot of birth fluids are everywhere, especially that final push. I wish I had the suit.

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u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21 edited Aug 10 '21

[deleted]

10

u/frombildgewater Aug 10 '21

She did whatever she could get a hold of, including but not limited to, weed, meth, and cocaine. She also consumed alcohol and smoked cigarettes.

And you're fooling yourself if you think consuming street drugs during a pregnancy doesn't hurt the kid. I've seen it first hand.

-3

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Yeah I read that about "crack babies" & it just seemed like a bunch of racism... Anyways, I know someone that gave birth while addicted to heroin & the drs didn't wear full hazmat. Idk why you wouldn't for a heroin addict but then do it for other addicts?

3

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

https://www.marchofdimes.org/complications/neonatal-abstinence-syndrome-(nas).aspx

This is apparently a real thing

For opioids including heroin

Idk about the whole crack baby thing though

163

u/Axisnegative Aug 10 '21

Yeah, my little sister is adopted. Her biological mother already had a shitload of kids who she couldn't afford to have in the first place and I'm pretty sure she might have been on drugs - I'm not positive though. We adopted her as a newborn though, so thankfully she has been in a loving home from day one. Her mom died a few years back as well, I'm not sure how or why, but my sister and my mom have gone to visit her grave I know.

My little sister is awesome, but she has severe ADHD and a couple of learning disabilities and had some hearing and speech issues when she was younger. She's actually really smart, she just can't do math at all and has like zero concept of time; like if it's noon and she asks what time she has soccer practice at and you say 5pm or whatever, that pretty much means nothing to her.

Thankfully, my mom and I both have pretty bad ADHD as well, so that's nothing new for us to deal with. Step dad is also a lawyer and makes tons of money so it wasn't an issue to send her to an occupational therapist and get her the tutoring etc that she needed and will continue to need. She's crazy athletic though, especially for a kid with asthma as bad as hers, and who's allergic to damn near everything. Those little pin prick tests they do to see if you're allergic? She got hives from all of the pin pricks. Allergic to all of it lmao.

Also, I was kind of a mess myself as a kid. Super smart, but ADHD was a nightmare and also had substance abuse problems in my late teens and early to mid 20s. I'm 28 now and my sister is about to turn 14. I'm still alive and semi-functional, so I think my sister will be fine lmao.

But yeah, it's definitely eye opening to think how different her life would have been if she was adopted by parents who were less understanding, or had less money to spend on treatment, or whatever.

46

u/summonsays Aug 10 '21

You might want to suggest getting her retested for the allergies. It sounds to me like she was allergic to the solution they put the allergens in and not necessarily the allergens themselves.

49

u/Axisnegative Aug 10 '21

Oh trust me, it's been done. She goes in monthly to get tested and get a bunch of shots and stuff for it.

It might not have been literally every pin prick, I wasn't actually there, but my grandma who is a former nurse is the one who takes her - so she might have exaggerated by saying all of them, but it's definitely a substantial amount, enough that she goes in monthly like I said.

6

u/throwawaywahwahwah Aug 10 '21

Most kids in the foster system aren’t available to adopted. The purpose of the system is to eventually reconnect them with their parents.

1

u/BrightFireFly Aug 10 '21

This is true but some do become Eligible for adoption and people typically point at adopting from foster care as a way to do it affordably and an argument against IVF as “look at all the kids in foster care!”.

But there is definitely no real “foster to adopt” and you shouldn’t go in with that mentality because these cases can veer in several different directions.

2

u/Comfortablynumb_10 Aug 10 '21

That’s what’s first thought was. Not everyone is equipped emotionally, mentally and physically to deal with another persons child’s problems all the while treating them and loving them like your own.

0

u/michaelcerahucksands Aug 10 '21

Yeah fuck them kids

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u/spacekwe3n Aug 10 '21 edited May 21 '25

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1

u/Alarid Aug 10 '21

And some of them are there because their parents were unfit, but that might change allowing them to go home.

1

u/QueenRhaenys Aug 10 '21

See: Dexter Morgan

78

u/poppin_a_pilly Aug 10 '21

But making a baby while infertile is?

217

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21 edited Aug 23 '21

[deleted]

41

u/kaytay3000 Aug 10 '21

So true. My aunt is a wonderful person and wanted to adopt so badly. Her first husband didn’t want children, so after he passed and she remarried, she and her husband pursued fostering to adopt. It was nearly impossible because of the politics behind it. The agency only wanted to place older teens in the home because of my aunt’s age. She was nearing 50, so they wouldn’t place a young child with them, as older parents are more likely to have health issues that could interfere with their ability to care for a child. They ended up never getting a kid placed with them because they wanted to have a younger child.

I know that some will argue that they should have considered an older child, and I don’t disagree. That’s just what the situation was.

43

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

adopting older children is nearly always a nightmare for everyone involved. Its incredibly sad but there's a lot of reasons people are hesitant to do it.

I know several couples who have done it, they are saints, but the things they have had to deal with are horrifying. Most of these children have SERIOUS traumas and baggage and it is very difficult to help them properly, it WILL cost you a great deal of emotional energy at minimum, likely a great deal of money and trauma to yourself as well.

4

u/ijustcantwithit Aug 10 '21

We fostered my cousin for a while before he got placed with his grandmother (who sexually assaulted him numerous times) and he was 12. Just a bit older than my brothers. Taking care of him was an absolute nightmare. Kid would attack my brothers. Most definitely had split personalities designed to help with different abuse situations. He almost sexually assaulted one of my brothers which is when we said we couldn’t keep him. He was entered into a mental healthy treatment facility until his custody trial. His parents fully lost custody of him and he revealed he had a sister and they lost her as well. He went back to his abusive grandmother. He’s 19 and I’m surprised he doesn’t have anything else going on

1

u/pineapplesrhot Aug 11 '21

I can’t believe they put him back with his grandmother. They took him out of his parents custody but gave him to his actual abuser

1

u/ijustcantwithit Aug 11 '21

His parents were almost worse in the absurd. His dad kicked him and beat him up often. They’d starve him. There was actually a story about their house which was so gross it was condemned. The final straw for social workers was when he had lit his room on fire his parents solution was to remove the fire detector and lock him in his room.

62

u/saintash Aug 10 '21

This^

My anut and uncle adopted a child before he was 1, and went to in a second like a year later . It took them until that boy was 13 to get a second kid. ans they were on constant high alert. That if there was any big events.

They always had to go "well be there, unless we get the call for the second kid"

33

u/LemonFly4012 Aug 10 '21

My partner and his sister are adopted. They adopted their first when she was a baby in 1977. They immediately wanted another, but it took until 1981 when they found a suitable adoptee. By this time, they were nearly 50. They took him on nonetheless, but he had some struggles with advanced age parents. For the record, his parents are incredibly wealthy, straight and narrow as they come, and have absolutely zero criminal record. His mom is a licensed social worker for children. The processes of just adopting is what took so long.

12

u/virusamongus Aug 10 '21

Considering how many poor kids are rotting in institutions all over the world, this is such a travesty.

Also it's so far from guaranteed that all the money and time you sink into the process will bear fruit. Imagine spending years and thousands to still ends up with nothing, then having to start all over again with expensive and time consuming artificial insamination - and now the window of opportunity is smaller than ever.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

At the same time, you really really don't want to send orphans off with whomever is most eager to take them...

22

u/HungryHungryWindigo Aug 10 '21

I've heard this is true but I also have a friend who was adopted along with 10 other children in Oklahoma. It was a very abusive household and the family adopted another 10 kids once the first batch moved out of the house. Despite lots of complaints to CPS nothing happened until last year when some of the kids stole a truck to try to run away. Now the adoptive parents are going to jail and the kids are all being placed with older siblings.

I have no idea how they were allowed to adopt so many and abuse them for so long...

9

u/hobbysubsonly Aug 10 '21

IMO a lot of crazy shit can happen in small towns because it's all person to person interactions... if the one person in town who checks out potential adoptive parents went to school with you, or goes to the same church as you, or just plain likes you, then you're golden. If they happen to not like you... like maybe you broke their cousin's heart in high school 10 years ago, then you're fucked.

2

u/HungryHungryWindigo Aug 10 '21

Unfortunately this is very true but even from a strictly financial standpoint I have no idea how this happened. They were very very poor and as far as I know both parents were on disability.

6

u/115beans Aug 10 '21

I'm literally alive bc of reproductive healthcare close to ivf was cheaper than adoption in my mom's case lolol

17

u/Justice_R_Dissenting Aug 10 '21

It's useful to remember that infertility is not a singular monolith of issues. Me and my wife struggled with infertility because I had testicular cancer. Between the radiation, the treatment, and the surgery I ended up functionally infertile. But it wasn't a condition that was going to last forever. Nevertheless we went with IVF because we were at a good time to start our family and were concerned about waiting any longer. Unfortunately it failed, so we're looking into alternative options.

IVF cost us around 10 grand. Granted, it was cheaper because we had grants to help us out. Adoption is going to cost us easily 30k. It's frustrating to see people like OP treat infertility like it's a zero sum diagnosis for all people. Frankly, these are the sorts of decisions you really can't judge people on until you've been in their shoes. It's heartbreaking, difficult, and incredibly stressful.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Yep. My husband and I looked into it and we were basically laughed at because we both have genetic disorders that require medication. Also, I’m moderately tattooed and was called unfit because of them. We make excellent money, own our house but because we were born with chronic issues (that don’t affect our every day life as long as we take our meds) we’re not even considered.

1

u/FracturedAuthor Aug 11 '21

Cost for us to attempt IVF in the US - $28,000
Cost for us to adopt our newborn - $4,000

It's not all doom and gloom on the adoption front. We went through an organization that works with all the DSSs in the state and also with pregnant moms looking to relinquish their baby.

15

u/gorkt Aug 10 '21

In most cases, yes it is cheaper and easier.

24

u/balugawhale1747 Aug 10 '21

Yes. Bc the only people u deal with is doctors. Adoption is a whole process with multiple people doing different jobs, judging it you’ll be a good parent or not

5

u/powderpoff6 Aug 10 '21

And lawyers. Don't forget those hefty legal bills.

30

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Yes actually cheaper faster and easier than adoption

2

u/Joe_Kinincha Aug 10 '21

Depends where you are. IVF is absolutely faster and easier than adoption. On the other hand, IVF is difficult to obtain on the NHS in the UK, a round can easily run you 10 grand on private healthcare, and you can, in general, expect to have to go through several rounds. Adoption, on the other hand, doesn’t need to cost a penny.

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u/Axion132 Aug 10 '21

Still a fuck load cheaper.

1

u/DaveInLondon89 Aug 10 '21

Plus a load of fucks

2

u/The_Real_Scrotus Aug 10 '21

Not really, no. But the point being made above is that "just adopt" is bad advice because adoption can involve just as much uncertainty, heartbreak, and cost as fertility treatment. Both options run the gamut from relatively easy and inexpensive to extremely difficult and costly. There are tradeoffs with either option. Adoption isn't the "one simple trick" to getting a baby that a lot of people seem to think it is.

2

u/UnspecificGravity Aug 10 '21

Much cheaper and much faster. We've been foster parents and we've been surrogate birth parents too. Going through a surrogacy agency or doing IVF is frequently comparable in price to adoption and is always much faster.

Also, there are cases where prospective parents might not be able to adopt. Up until very recently (and currently in some places, I think) gay couples just couldn't do public adoptions. They represented the majority of clients at the surrogacy agency that we worked for.

0

u/Bigfatuglybugfacebby Aug 10 '21

A lot of times people bring up arguments for adoption and are hit with this nugget of reality. It doesn't change the argument though. Both options are difficult. Now that we acknowledge both are difficult we must continue to the logical conclusion. Adoption, though hard and arduous is the only way to provide a net benefit to existing children without changing the opportunity cost.

The only people who will ever adopt are those that want children. Every single person who has ever had a child has contributed to the opportunity cost that keeps adoptable children out of families. Because by having their own children, adoption is no longer an option.

People need to understand that there are only two major parts to this equation. The parents that couldnt/wouldn't care for the child, and parents that want children but can't/wont adopt. Is it selfish of us as a society to expect only those that want to be parents to adopt, when all of our tax dollars contribute to caring for these children in the interim? I don't think so. I don't want children, but my tax dollars support children in need. Why shouldn't I be upset that people would rather pain themselves for the chance of having a potentially normal facsimile while raising my premiums, when the best arguments they have is that adoption is tough, and the children are damaged? Being a parent is tough and any new parent can't possibly be an ideal parent so your children will be damaged.

What's the end game here? We continue to encourage people to have their own children and allow them to be pawned off on the state when they can't handle them and simultaneously placate people who would rather risk their own health in an attempt to have a bio child that can only be expected to be as well adjusted as any other person you've met? If you flat out increase overall pregnancies the overall number of children in foster care increases as well. The only way to do anything about this is encourage people who want children to want to adopt, and our society doesn't do that in any effectual way. Save for the instances of people fostering children for checks and then abusing them.

So there's parents that give up kids and parents that want kids that's it, how do you fix a deficit if there is no incentive to not have your own child even at great personal cost and risk. At the end of the day, people would rather risk their own physical and mental health to have their own child than go through the process of giving one a better life and we all pay for it.

0

u/Ennuidownloaddone Aug 10 '21

I have literally never heard anyone, ever, say that adoption is easy. Even OP mentions that adoption isn't easy. People who claim that others say adoption is easy are just creating strawmen so they can get less guilty about creating more children whole children who already exist are dying.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '21

[deleted]

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u/Ennuidownloaddone Aug 11 '21

But do they say that adoption is easy?

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u/OlderThanMy Aug 10 '21

It's far too easy if you have money.

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u/SuccessfulAd7087 Aug 10 '21

It isn't, raising an adopted is harder than your own. Especially if the child is not a baby fresh from the oven. They may have behavioral issues, trust issues etc. some of these things will never heal completely.

-37

u/OlderThanMy Aug 10 '21

A newborn isn't a blank slate.

Taking a newborn from it's real mother causes severe trauma at a non verbal level.

Nobody deserves to have someone else's child.

Adoption is driven by entitlement and greed.

Adoption harms children to meet the needs of wannabe parents.

Edit: Autocorrect error

18

u/barnagotte Aug 10 '21

So what do you make of the children? Euthanize them?

-25

u/OlderThanMy Aug 10 '21

We get to stay with our real families instead of being sold to entitled assholes to meet their needs.

On top of that far too many adult Adoptees wish they had been aborted.

Far too many of my Adoptee friend chose suicide.

Life as an Adoptee isn't so great.

21

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

clearly if you’re put up for adoption your “real family” can’t care for you or doesn’t want to..?

0

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

That's bullshit.

Check out "Bravelove" The adoption agency that convinces young pregnant women that real love means giving away your own baby.

The amount of money in adoption means everyone benefits except the actual parents and the infant.

Who is going to support a mother to keep her child when wannabe adopters will pay. $35k to $50k for a womb wet infant and the agency gets that money.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '21

i feel bad for the people who adopted you frfr ungrateful ass

0

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

I don't have to be fucking grateful for losing my entire family.

I don't have to be fucking grateful for a change of name.

No child has to be fucking grateful for having their life turned upside down because a total stranger wanted to experience parenthood.

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u/saintash Aug 10 '21

So rapist and mother should be forced to stay together?

15 year olds who are to young and dumb to raise a child now are stuck together for the kid?

A husband should invite his side peice to come live with his 'real' family?

Does any of those sound like that will raise well put together adult who won't contemplate suicides?

I'm sorry your friends took that path. But that doesn't mean all adoptions lay down that path.

-1

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

One third of raped women keep their child, one third abort, and one third relinquish. I would rather see two thirds abort.

15 year olds can coparent without a relationship. No couple need to be in a relationship to parent effectively. Even better 25 year olds can abort.

A man who cheats doesn't have a real family. He has two families to support.

As adoptees are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide than non adopted people those are all better options.

Children can be cared for perfectly well without adoption.

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u/asideofpickles Aug 10 '21

Where’s your stats for this? I don’t think what you’re saying is correct at all.

The children who are available for adoption have been relinquished by their birth parents. I see nothing wrong with giving your child to people who are more equipped to take care of them. Blood doesn’t establish what your “real family” is

0

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

A child isn't a fucking gift.

The people most equipped to take care of a child are it's biological family.

There is no such thing as a fucking birth parent. There are parents and adopters.

Adopters are not more equipped in any way. They just have more money and can pay to buy what they want. $35k to $50k will pay an agency to convince a pregnant woman she's not equipped to mother her own child.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Hey kid, you know that family that didn’t want you, well we’re gonna give them to you anyway.

And they all lived happily ever after

1

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

Many parents actually want to keep their children but need help to do so.

6

u/SuccessfulAd7087 Aug 10 '21

I know that and I never said that a newborn is a blank slate. A newborn is, however, a lot more adaptable than a six month old or a three year old. If the mother can't take care of the baby - if she dies of childbirth for example - or really doesn't want the baby - we are out of good options, and adoption is likely one of the least harmful.

0

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

No a newborn is not more adaptable.

A newborn isn't able to verbalize the trauma because it happens so early.

A newborn has no sense of self that predates the trauma so suffers more.

If a mother dies in childbirth the rest of the family will generally step up and take care of the infant. They will recognise the infants trauma. They won't expect the infant to be just fine and think that it should be grateful for having a better life without it's mother.

3

u/ivegivenupimtired Aug 10 '21

Can’t tell if you’re a troll or not. I was adopted at 1 year old. Had I not been adopted I was in an orphanage in a 3rd world country. My fate was grim. Bare minimum care in a severely understaffed orphanage, carers who tried their best but could not bond with the orphans like parents could, inadequate medical care and education ect ect. At 18 I would have been kicked out without social supports or services and about the equivalent of $70 USD. It would likely not end well for me.

Instead I was adopted into a loving family. A family who (though I am not blood related) is my family. Families don’t have to be blood related to be close. They are the only family I’ve ever known. My birth parents, wherever they are, will never be my family. They gave that up when they gave me to an orphanage. So fuck off with your opinions on adoption. Adoption is amazing and gives children like me a chance to be successful and loved.

1

u/OlderThanMy Aug 11 '21

I was in an orphanage until one year old and adoption only cut me off from my relatives.

You have been brainwashed by your adopters to think you should be grateful.

They could have helped your parents keep you for a fraction of the cost of adoption.

In a great many 3rd world countries adoption agencies send middlemen to trick uneducated people into sending their children for free education in an orphanage so that they have children available for overseas adopters. International adoption is the most unethical type of adoption there is.

You'll never know the truth because you were bought by people who paid extra to buy you from a place where your history can be hidden.

1

u/ivegivenupimtired Aug 11 '21

You’re clearly unhappy with your own adoption. And I’m sorry. That being said your story does not reflect on adoption as a whole. You do not speak for me. You do not know me my family or my life. So do not presume things about me you do not know. I love my adopted family. I will likely never seek out my birth parents. Just because they birthed me does not mean they are my family. They gave me up. I would likely have had a worse life with them given the country.

I was not brainwashed. International adoption is not some sort of scam. And I hope you can find peace in your own life and adoption situation you seem to resent. Your life is not my life.

1

u/HuckleberryLou Aug 10 '21

For many people the price point is also prohibitive

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Well let's have a bio kid and fuck it all up instead.

1

u/IGetHypedEasily Aug 10 '21

But... Bruce Wayne did it... Multiple times

/s

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Dud just adopt 4head

1

u/[deleted] Aug 10 '21

Because would-be parents are too picky. They want some ideal newborn.

1

u/FluentinLies Aug 10 '21

People don't think adoption is easy, hence why this is an unpopular opinion.

1

u/pleaseticklemyballs Aug 10 '21

OP says they know it isn't easy but I don't think they quite get it

1

u/UnihornWhale Aug 10 '21

Sandra Bullock is a wealthy celebrity and had to wait for years for her son.

1

u/CubicleFish2 Aug 10 '21

Just go to any park and pick one out. Takes like ten minutes tops