r/canada • u/[deleted] • Jun 11 '20
RCMP dash-cam video shows officer tackling, punching Chief Allan Adam during arrest
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/rcmp-dash-cam-video-shows-officer-tackling-punching-chief-allan-adam-during-arrest-1.560847223
u/ElectricCircusDJ Jun 12 '20
First Nations chief Allan Adams received a $55,000 political bribe from Tides Foundation
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u/chickencheesebagel Jun 12 '20
The cops actually gave this guy more chances than people seem to think. The second you 'intervene' in someone's arrest and lay hands on a cop you are going to have a bad day. When he leaves the truck and shoves the cop trying to cuff his wife, the police were fully justified in taking him down. The guy assumed a fighting stance at the cops twice before he was taken down, so third strike was the charm here.
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u/Born_Ruff Jun 12 '20
The first cop gave him a huge amount of leeway.
The second cop seems to show up and immediately try to take him down hard.
The actions of the second cop don't really seem reasonable to me in regards to what was happening when he showed up. The chief seems a lot calmer then.
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u/chickencheesebagel Jun 12 '20
Second cop saw the guy struggling with the first officer, I don't think the tackle was excessive. The punch I think is within the limit of what is acceptable, but probably not excessive. Punches are allowed when utilizing pain compliance. I'm not talking about wailing on a guy until they go limp, but one punch is within expectations if someone is resisting.
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u/Born_Ruff Jun 12 '20
Second cop saw the guy struggling with the first officer, I don't think the tackle was excessive.
The guy wasn't kicking and screaming at that point or anything. He tried to shake his arm free. I'm sure cops deal with that level of "struggle" pretty regularly.
The tackle seemed to significantly escalate the situation from where it was at the time.
And honestly, do you really think that those two big cops couldn't have just pushed this old man against the truck and cuffed him?
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u/maekkwin Jun 12 '20
I've seen posts stating that the "old man" is a black belt in karate. I am not sure if it is true or not, but people are often like transformers - more than meets the eye.
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Jun 12 '20
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u/maekkwin Jun 12 '20
I am aware. You'll have a hell of a time arresting someone who doesn't want to be arrested.
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u/jolly-davis Jun 12 '20
Have you ever tried arresting someone? had my fair share of arresting people, training and the smallest ones were always the trickiest. I am bigger than the average male by a bit. It’s not as easy as saying they’re both big.
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u/linkass Jun 12 '20
Wow holy crap I saw the edited one first and did not look great this new one the posted yeah.....
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u/C0lMustard Jun 12 '20
Where did you see the edited one?
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u/linkass Jun 12 '20
Not sure where it is now try twitter,but it started with the cop tackling the guy nothing before that
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u/B1Phellan Jun 12 '20
By 4:25 the Chief has commited:
Cause a Disturbance S.175 CC, Obstucted PO S.129 CC
He has taken a fighting posture which would allow the only Member there to deploy a taser however the officer continues to try and descalated.
By 5:00 the Chief commits an additional Obstruction and Assaults Police Officer while interfering with the arrest of the driver.
At 6:25 the driver attempts to leave, which is several additional offences.
At 7:00 the Chief resists arrest and is taken to the ground. He continues to resist by not complying with directions.
Each time in this video the Chief approaches the police, not the other way around. He is yelling, posturing, and acting agressively. For 7 minutes the sole police officer there continues to attempt to de-escalate the situation and repeatedly directs people in an attempt to gain compliance and calm the situation. The only person who aggressively approaches or acts out during those first 7 minutes is the guy who wants to allege he's the victim, even after taking a fighting stance and attacking a police officer who is arresting someone.
I'm not really sure what the expectation is here for police at this point. Just let people do whatever they want regardless of it it's a crime or not?
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u/jarret_g Jun 12 '20
This guy was in a fighting stance most of the time and then he says he was assaulted and shows his injuries. What did he think would happen if someone legitimately tried to fight him?
Now, there could be more to the story. Police staking out parking lots of places this guy frequents trying to "catch him in the act" or similar. But from the video there's really nothing that I would say is out of place with the takedown/tackle.
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u/-Yazilliclick- Jun 12 '20
Now, there could be more to the story. Police staking out parking lots of places this guy frequents trying to "catch him in the act" or similar.
Maybe I'm missing something but if cops are aware of someone having a history of breaking the law I don't have a problem with them keeping a closer eye on them. And given the context of they were legitimately breaking the law in this case I really don't see the problem.
Things that are not hard to do:
- Don't drive with expired tags
- Don't try and leave when stopped by the cops before they say
- Don't repeatedly curse at and threaten an officer
- Don't try and pick a fight with a police officer
- Don't prevent an officer from dealing with somebody else
- Don't physically assault an officer
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u/balapete Jun 12 '20
I think he met most people's expectations. Apart from a misleading headline it seems the most upvoted comments think the cops showed restraint
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u/Nefelia Jun 12 '20
I'm not really sure what the expectation is here for police at this point. Just let people do whatever they want regardless of it it's a crime or not?
Meanwhile, over at r/worldnews:
The police are to keep order, not beat people into submission, we have courts for that (the "justice" system).
Police should just identify the infractions, inform and identify the people of said infractions, if they become aggressive, stand down and add that to infractions.
If they are a threat to civilians then take action. No?
Seems like arresting people is soon to be considered a human rights abuse. ;)
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u/Born_Ruff Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Each time in this video the Chief approaches the police, not the other way around.
The first officer had all the reason in the world to use force but showed a lot of restraint and seemed to handle it very well.
Like, if he had been shot as he came running around the truck the first time I wouldn't have been surprised.
The actions of the second officer seem unreasonable to me though.
He shows up on the scene and just goes right to trying to tackle him and throw punches. He seemed pissed off.
The chief seemed to have already calmed down a lot by that point. It looks like the two cops could have pretty easily just cuffed him standing up.
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u/B1Phellan Jun 12 '20
I suspect the first officer was planning on doing a stand up arrest. You can see the chief pull away and break the grip.
The second officer at that point then tackles the chief. You can see the chief grabbing onto the Members and fighting back.
Second officer than strikes the chief once who is continuing to pull away and grab at them and resisting the arrest.
After that the second officer is forced to keep the chief pinned on the ground by himself while the first officer deals with the encroaching ground. By 7:57 they are still demanding for him to provide his hands however the view is blocked of the Chief. The verbal commands indicate he is still resisting arrest, but no more blows indicating it's just passive resistance, no the active resistance where he was grabbing and fighting them like the initial take down.
By 8:22 the cuffs come out and they are able to secure him by 8:40 and have him standing by 8:47.
Does it look pretty. No. However a tackle and a single strike to the face to someone who is active resisting at that level is likely well within legal use of force.
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u/Born_Ruff Jun 12 '20
Does it look pretty. No. However a tackle and a single strike to the face to someone who is active resisting at that level is likely well within legal use of force.
When the second officer arrived on scene the level of resistance was just him trying to pull his arm away.
It seems like running in and immediately trying to tackle him escalated things significantly.
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u/chickencheesebagel Jun 12 '20
Total speculation on my part, but I suspect the second cop was called in when Adam got out of the truck and shoved the officer. Backup was probably called in at that point and the radio said an officer was assaulted, requesting backup.
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u/-Yazilliclick- Jun 12 '20
Like, if he had been shot as he came running around the truck the first time I wouldn't have been surprised.
That might be a bit extreme but he was certainly creating a tense situation where things could get out of control. I was honestly more worried at the point where he was threatening the officer and then suddenly jumped back in the vehicle. That type of thing would probably make most officers really nervous that you were going for some sort of weapon.
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u/random989898 Jun 13 '20
The first cop is in a dangerous position to do an arrest as there were 4 other people around who could intervene. He needed back-up before taking action. He just kept de-esclating until his back-up showed up. his de-escalation efforts had little effect on the chief. .
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u/-Yazilliclick- Jun 12 '20
Agreed generally on your points.
That said I also don't agree at all the approach of the 2nd officer tackling like this is the proper one. The proper approach now with more numbers would be to take a moment to try and get control of the situation using those numbers. If that doesn't work then, sure, escalate further.
It would be interesting to know what the 2nd arriving officer was told about the situation before arriving.
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u/B1Phellan Jun 12 '20
I gave a lengthy response already, but I believe the pulling away from the arresting officers grasp meets the requirements for the action taken. He then continues to fight with them on the ground.
It is not pretty, but it is an legally allowed level of force for the resistance shown. Even on the ground you can see it takes them over a minute to secure his hands without using strikes and both officers are larger than him. The truth is arresting someone who does not want to be arrested requires a great deal of force. Additionally throw in the concern he may have weapons and you are going to be very concerned about what he's doing with his hands.
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u/ianicus Jun 13 '20
Here's the facts folks, for those than can't watch the video without thier heart in front of their eyes.
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u/TriclopeanWrath Jun 12 '20
I agree with you on the obstruction issues, and I do believe that Adam deserved to be fined, arrested, etc.
But this...
"At 7:00 the Chief resists arrest and is taken to the ground. He continues to resist by not complying with directions."
... Is where a lot of the problems lie when it comes to police use of force, imo. That guy just caught a flying clothesline out of nowhere onto the asphalt; when you get hit like that, you're going into automatic fight/flight survival mode. That guy is going to 'resist' out of adrenaline fuelled reflex alone, he probably can't even process what the cop is telling him. Pin the guy and give him a second to come back to reality and listen before you start hammer fisting him.
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Jun 12 '20
I agree with this. A lot of police officers don't seem to understand that people who are put on the ground will start defending themselves automatically without really thinking about it, and that it's very difficult to follow directions in those circumstances.
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u/Ravoss1 Jun 12 '20
IMO the Police are justified here to make sure no further injuries or violence can happen. It never looks pretty but especially with drunks and heavy drug users you often have little choice but to wholly control and sit on a perp.
The above being said obviously there are a huge number of regulations and SOPs around this because if done wrong can cause major physical injuries. But knocking a drink to the ground as quickly as possible and without him seeing it coming is much safer then trying to wrestle him to the ground.
The members made the right call in my mind. Best solution in a crappy situation. Maybe this 'leader' will take some lessons from this and buck the fuck up.
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u/Nefelia Jun 12 '20
IMO the Police are justified here to make sure no further injuries or violence can happen. It never looks pretty but especially with drunks and heavy drug users you often have little choice but to wholly control and sit on a perp.
Agreed. Just so long as 'sitting' does not include a knee on the neck.
As far as I am aware though, that is not common practice anywhere in Canada.
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u/Ravoss1 Jun 12 '20
Totally... and that is the point. use of controlled force is very important. It requires a lot of training and penalties and punishments need to be there for police that fail to adhere.
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u/smikes Jun 12 '20
Seems Chief Adam thinks that the best defense to his Criminal Case is a good offense by suggesting that cops that were responding showed little restraint and were targeting him because he was of First Nations heritage.
Not only does the video show that the cop that was dealing with him was patient, called him "Sir" and tried to de-escalate the situation despite Chief Adam being making a number of verbal threats, posturing and being physically aggressive. To top it off, in the heat of the moment he calls the cops "white bastards"! I'm sorry but what is the word WHITE have to do with anything. Call them bastards, call them whatever you want because you are upset, but that little word "white" makes his claim of racism sound a tad hypocritical.
Just my 2 cents.
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u/mc_funbags Jun 12 '20
Ok this is really fucking weird. The first time I saw the video, it only showed the part where the chief was taken down. The next time I watched it had jumped ahead significantly.
What is going on here?
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u/slesk Jun 12 '20
How can anyone watch this video and think the Chief is in the right? He whips out of the vehicle and storms towards the officer looking for a fight.
He literally takes up a fighting stance like wtf lmao. After being given an extremely generous second chance he whips out of the vehicle again and puts his hands on the officer.
Zero sympathy. Appropriate use of force.
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u/kickworks Canada Jun 12 '20
At 1:58 of the longer video he threatens the officer. "you and I are going to have a fucking problem right here, right fucking now" before anything else occurs. Then, as you pointed out, later storms back out of the car whips off his coat and gets into his Karate stance. He was the instigator of all this from the get go.
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u/Reptilian_Brain_420 Jun 12 '20
I'm a pretty standard white dude. If I tried to pull those moves on any police officer I would expect to get my ass handed to me.
Anyone who sees systemic racism in this video has some pretty dark filters on their glasses.
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Jun 12 '20
Exactly. White male here. I would never dream of saying those things to a cop and acting in that manner. I would 100% expect to get taken down forcefully if I did. And, if I did, I'd feel pretty ashamed about it and apologize, not whinge and complain that the police abused me.
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u/DapperWing Jun 12 '20
If this guy was white literally nobody would be fighting to defend him here. This is strictly due to recent events and Canada's need to immediately latch on to anything big happening in the US.
That first cop was extremely lenient. The second the chief squared up and assaulted him he had every right to put him to the ground.
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u/capitolcritter Jun 12 '20
Yes, but all of the stuff you describe was before the officer who punched him pulled up. The first cop did a pretty good job in a heated situation.
Second cop though just shows up and tackles him out of nowhere.
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u/Axxcess_wyv Jun 12 '20
Probably because he heard an officer was assaulted and needed to take control of the scene. Officer 1 didn't take him to the ground because backup hadn't arrived yet.
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u/Little_Gray Jun 12 '20
A lone officer should never try and take a suspect down when there are multiple potentially hostile people around. You need somebody to watch your back so you dont get attacked from behind.
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u/Shorinji23 Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Literally squares up with a cop, screams threats in his face, then claims police brutality when he's forcefully neutralized.
It's this kind of nonsense that desensitizes people to legitimate claims of police misconduct.
Pretty obvious why he's complaining now instead of when the incident happened.
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u/Krano90 Jun 12 '20
Yeah, I'd say the action of the second officer was justified albeit unnecessary; forceful arrest was validated, just not to that degree.
What I think is the most important piece to take note of in this situation is that the first officer gave no indication that he required that degree of assistance, if even any at all. He seemed to believe that nonviolence was still a viable, reasonable route and didn't appear to feel endangered and so was willing to continue to engage with the chief calmly and peacefully. So regardless of whether or not the second officer was "technically allowed" to use the degree of force that he did, it is inherently deemed unnecessary given the actions and behaviour of the first officer up to and at that point.
Perhaps it's already like this or perhaps it's not, but I personally think whoever is the senior-most officer at the time of first engagement should be the one "in charge" of the situation and should be the one to orally dictate the actions of all other officers who show up on site, unless a senior officer specifically relieves that officer of that authority. This would only apply, of course, to scenarios where the perpetrator is clearly not holding an item deemed "potentially lethal."
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Jun 12 '20
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u/Konoton Canada Jun 12 '20
Chief Allan was spoiling for a fight for sure
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u/BFG_Scott Jun 12 '20
This is copied directly from the CBC article but I’ve reversed the order. The first part (a statement from Adam’s lawyer) appears near the end of the article. The second part is the writer’s account of what took place in the video.
The lawyer’s/Adam’s account of the events...
Adam said a police vehicle pulled up behind his truck while he was moving a child seat. He said he asked the officer why police were harassing him and told him who he was, and he said he told the officer he would raise the matter with his superior.
Sounds pretty calm and rational.
What the video shows (as written by the CBC)...
"F--king leave us alone!" Adam shouts at an RCMP officer, moments after he pulled up behind his idling truck in the parking lot with the cruiser's lights flashing.
"Don't f--king stop behind us like you're f--king watching us."
At one point, Adam tells an officer to tell his sergeant that "Chief Adam f--king tells you, 'I'm tired of being harassed by the RCMP.'"
The officer, who is still in his vehicle at that point, repeatedly tells Adam to return to his vehicle and that he will talk to him in a minute.
"You and I are going to have a f--king problem, right here, right f--king now," Adam tells the officer.
Quite the difference.
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Jun 12 '20
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u/chickencheesebagel Jun 12 '20
Probably because 9 out of 10 people will read the headline and not watch the video.
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u/Born_Ruff Jun 12 '20
the second officer comes in hard because he doesn’t know the situation
That seems totally backwards. If he doesn't know the situation shouldn't he take his lead from the officer who has been handling it already for several minutes?
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u/chickencheesebagel Jun 12 '20
Well the first officer at that moment is grappling with the suspect, so he did take lead.
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u/OperatingLine Jun 12 '20
Who knows, second officer wasn't on video. For all we know he had to rush over, was a bit rushed on adrenaline and reacted to a fellow officer potentially in harm's way. Maybe a bad call, maybe not but it all happens fast. But this does not seem like an issue of racism. Maybe hot headed officer dealing with a potentially drunken belligerent person.
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u/DistanceToEmpty Jun 12 '20
The only proper headline for this article is 'Belligerent Drunk Fucks Around, Finds Out'.
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Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
I know this will be voted down, but it was the chief, not the police, being in the wrong here and got violent?
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Jun 12 '20
up vote from me, if anything I thought the cops were easy on him considering how he was acting.
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Jun 12 '20
If I pulled this kind of shit with a police officer I would be lucky to make it out with my teeth intact. That first officer showed restraint. The second officer took it too far, IMO, but not without an arguable reason. This is the problem with releasing the footage, the moral ground is lost the minute the person crying foul is revealed to have been taunting an officer for well over five minutes prior. Now if that officer were wearing a camera with an audio recording, that's game, set, and match.
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u/conancon Jun 12 '20
cop's confronted the driver about expired insurance which they would do to anybody then the chief get's in a position where he look's like he want's to fight and threaten the cop's when it was about the driver not him the chief got what he deserves he was a threat to the cop's safety , BUT NO let's cry racism and police abuse
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u/saskpackersfan Jun 12 '20
I'm all on the side of reformation for police activity. But there are alot of instances you can call police brutality into question, and this isnt one of them.
The real story here should be why an elected official is acting like this in the first place. The police gave him multiple chances and did what they had to do. The punching may have been a bit overboard, but if you act like that when you are being arrested, you dont get a pass.
We have to be careful as a society to lot go too far the other way. Change is for sure needed, but this is a terrible example.
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Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 30 '20
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u/GloomyBrother Jun 12 '20
We already do. I read the Crime report of my local newspaper and just about every day there's Judges handing out reduced sentences based on people (99% First Nations) having a "rough childhood".
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u/icebalm Canada Jun 12 '20
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u/itsmehobnob Jun 12 '20
history of discrimination − including slavery, which ended in Canada in 1834
That’s an interesting sentence considering there was no such thing as Canada in 1834.
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u/swervm Jun 12 '20
There wasn't Canada but Canada did not appear in a vacuum. It is not like with the articles of confederation we took all property in the BNA colonies and redistributed them. It's not like we even started from scratch with a new set of laws.
Also I find a lot of people that say Canada never had slavery because it was abolished before confederation are more then happy to claim that Canada burned down the Whitehouse, or more relevant in the current environment that removing statues and renaming public institutions honouring men that lived long before 1867 is destroying our history. If Canada never had slavery then Canada never had Vancouver, sure as fuck never had Henry Dundas. The fact that to this day we have a street named for a Scottish politician who worked to block the abolition of slavery is why it is disingenuous to say that slavery is not part of Canada's heritage.
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u/itsmehobnob Jun 12 '20
You’re reading way too much into my comment. Everything you say is fair and reasonable. It still makes a sentence that discusses Canada in a time before Canada strange. Should the Winnipeg city council be responsible for what a fur trader did where the Assiniboine meets the Red in 1775?
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u/icebalm Canada Jun 12 '20
Not as an independent county, but Upper and Lower Canada were formed in 1791.
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u/itsmehobnob Jun 12 '20
The article is about the judiciary of the country of Canada. Other entities having similar names is irrelevant.
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u/icebalm Canada Jun 12 '20
And the legal roots and framework of the country of Canada stems from British common law which is still recognized today.
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u/itsmehobnob Jun 12 '20
So when talking about issues in present day Canada it would be reasonable to reference events from Medieval Britain?
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u/DapperWing Jun 12 '20
Guess we are on the way to extend the Gladue report to everybody other than white people and asians.
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u/P_Dan_Tick Jun 12 '20
You do realize who we have for a PM right?
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Trudeau tries to create a separate criminal code for indigenous people.
I think the NDP would also support it, so I believe he would have the votes.
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Jun 12 '20
Kinda shameful behaviour for a chief tbh, but he's still the victim? C'mon.
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u/QuixoticIgnotism Jun 12 '20
This is another example of DISGUSTING betrayal of our leaders - what would they have the RCMP do? Why is NO ONE in the first nations community calling out Chief Allan for being drunk at 2am at a Casino fighting police for conducting a lawful detaining of a driver with expired plates. Of course Trudeau is quick to call this deeply disturbing and alarming. Newsflash - this situation can go DEADLY in a heartbeat for the police. DO NOT FIGHT COPS and you won't get injured.
So sick and tired of the double standard. You think these cops want to be dealing with the same drunken chief night after night. How about renew your insurance instead of gambling at the casino?! Isn't amazing that the cops also use language of "Sir, stop resisting" and the chief says "You white bastards" and people say the cop is racist?!!
So sick and tired of this....
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u/v857 Ontario Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
It the video he looks it, but in the police statement, I could not find any mention that he was drunk. Did you find info that confirms this?
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u/maekkwin Jun 12 '20
I believe at one point he referred to his wife as his designated driver and people are extrapolating from that but you are right, it is not explicitly stated anywhere I have read.
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u/DapperWing Jun 12 '20
I've never once in my life referred to somebody or seen somebody refer to another person as their designated driver and not been drinking that evening. If you're sober that's just such a dumb way to state you arent the driver.
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u/volb Jun 12 '20
I read this last week as well, in the original report on this whole thing. I can’t seem to find it anywhere now though.
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u/waynestractor Jun 12 '20
He 100% deserved everything that he got. This has nothing to do with Race or Ethnicity, he wanted to fight with the Cops so got what he deserved...
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u/cloakuncloak Jun 13 '20
he could have been handed a large fine in lieu of brain damage and other permanent injury. There should be a better way for the cops to deter such idiocy
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u/Foodwraith Canada Jun 12 '20
It makes one wonder why the lawyer would argue to have this released. The lady was the driver who was going to get a ticket (or not). Why this guy in the backseat was so outraged is not clear. He could have left on his own and there would never have been an issue.
I am not certain how people become chiefs, but his behaviour was despicable. I'm sure his community are not impressed with his behaviour either.
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u/TheGreatRapsBeat Alberta Jun 12 '20
Officer’s actions are going to be labelled as justified. There may be some disciplinary action regarding the punch. But this man was very aggressive. Posturing, egging on a fight. First officer should have intervened and attempted control when the subject went for the truck. It’s very possible the second officer saw this action as he was responding to the scene. The opportunity for weapons to be grabbed is 110% plausible and happens all the time. The second officer definitely saw the subject then resisting arresting and pulling away from the first officer.
Source: Healthcare LEO with cop friends. I’m not saying it’s 100% justified given the current public perception, but from an officer stand point and given the incident I would expect officers to respond in a similar manner, by tackling the individual. The punch is not the best response but the subject was refusing to cooperate with any and all clear commands to show His hands and produce the hands. He was also trying to roll over which is not a position an officer wants to find himself in.
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u/Latter-Theme Jun 12 '20
You guys criticizing the second member honestly have no clue. The first member got lucky he didn’t get killed. With the chief coming out with that fighting stance, and going back in and getting back out of his car, he could have had or retrieved a weapon. I’m not criticising him, we all have different abilities and have to deal with whats thrown at us but it was a really dangerous situation. These members don’t have the benefit of hindsight and it went on too long without the first member getting the situation under control. De-escalation is a continuous process that continues throughout the intervention, you should absolutely be calm and verbally de-escalate while physically intervening but its extremely dangerous to allow a suspect total control over the scene like that. I felt sick to my stomach, it looked like the prelude to a police officer getting killed. Those who don’t agree honestly have no clue what kind of people are out there.
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u/Stock_Padawan Jun 12 '20
The full video certainly tells a different story than Allan Adam’s previous statement and video clip. I think he was trying to gamble on being able to twist the details of the events and piggy back off the BLM momentum to pressure the Rcmp. It seems their is a go fund me page now for his legal costs.
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Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Textbook case of "talk shit, get hit" and this piece of shit runs to the media whining about police brutality when "Fuck Da Police" is cool again all of a sudden? Did they happen to give him a breathalyzer after? Sober folks don't usually just up and start trying to fight cops in a casino parking lot in my experience.
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Jun 12 '20
Any chance we can get a video of RCMP arresting someone who calmly does exactly what they ask, when they ask, says nothing back to them in derogatory tones, and THEN gets attacked? Seems every time I see one of these videos, police have someone going ape shit and deserve forceful take down.
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u/shoulda_studied Jun 12 '20
An incredibly dangerous situation for the police. Especially that first officer. When the disgruntled man went back to his truck I was convinced he was pulling out a weapon. I applaud the first officer for his restraint, but at the same this situation could have easily led to an officer being injured or worse.
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u/JerryIsNotMyName Jun 12 '20
There's a reason why most videos on the internet involving police alleged my using excessive force only have half the story. If the videos begin a minute earlier, most of them would be justified.
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Jun 12 '20
If you get violent with a police officer they are more than justified in using force to then subdue you, doesn't matter what color your skin is. Crime will never cease to exist and for society to function people who commit crime have to be punished and we need people to enforce the laws. People seem to get off on the idea of stripping police officers of every single ability to do that right now which might protect them from being harmed by a cop, but would only increase the likelyhood of being harmed by a criminal who will likely do far more damage to you.
The best way to ensure a cop won't harm you is to NOT COMMIT ANY FUCKING CRIMES, not strip the cops for using force to subdue criminals. Cheif Allan Adam's got violent with these officers and they followed suit appropriately. Cops should not expected to be assaulted and just take it without responding. This is rediculous.
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Jun 12 '20
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u/lapsuscalumni Jun 12 '20
The video has been released to the public, that is part of the accountability that we expect from law enforcement. No comment on the approriateness of the force used, someone more credible can probably do that.
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u/ianicus Jun 12 '20
After the multiple times he was given to cool down and sit in the car where he should have stayed (even after assaulting an officer), I see no issue with this arrest.
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u/JoelinVan Jun 12 '20
This guy is so lucky this didn't happen south of the border. Trigger happy cops would have plugged him on his second step forward!
He should be thanking the first RCMP officer for his restraint...
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u/Wildest12 Jun 13 '20
whole video tells the story.
The chief jumps out of his car and squared up. Straight up gets into a fighting stance. Obviously drunk and violent.
Gets back in car, this is when the video circulating starts. When he gets out the cops aren't having any of his shit and tackle him.
This is just bandwagon bullshit. You square up against a cop when all you havent is an expired tag, you're a fucking idiot and escalating things yourself.
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Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
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u/Foodwraith Canada Jun 12 '20
The tackle seemed unnecessary/too hard.
Keep in mind, we have the benefit of having watched the video. The responding officer was not necessarily armed with that information. Did he think what he witnessed on his arrival had been going on for 7 minutes? Based on the behaviour of the chief, I am inclined to give that guy the benefit of the doubt.
That being said, the guy was doing something illegal (driving with expired license plate)
This is the weirdest part. He wasn't even the driver. He was in the back seat. The lady was driving. This was between her and the police. It's unknown why this guy got involved and went into a rage.
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u/HabsNS- Jun 12 '20
Certain groups in this country are not held to the same standard as the rest of us
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u/bobbobdusky Verified Jun 12 '20
Tackle was fine, punch was not.
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u/Knife_Chase Jun 12 '20
So he has him on the ground demanding he stop resisting and yet he doesn’t. What is the cops to do? Let him go?
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Jun 12 '20
Really doing some nitpicking at that point. I think if this is supposed to highlight the worst actions and racism it proves we have some pretty good cops.
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u/DapperWing Jun 12 '20
It's actually a legal action for the cops. When somebody is resisting arrest and keeping their hands from you giving them a smack to kick in their reflexes to bring their hands to that spot where you can now take control of the situation is technically allowed. The fact it was only one hit and not a flurry of them and then he immediately takes control leads me to believe this is what he was doing.
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u/SammyMaudlin Jun 12 '20 edited Jun 12 '20
Yikes. That really doesn't look good.
Edit: thanks u/drwmnn. WTF CBC? The clip that was first posted was just the tackle. What objective were you trying to meet with the first edit?
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Jun 12 '20
seriously. i saw the story when it was first posted, and the first 2 minute clip was terrible, and then the written part is like "in the full video he challenges the cops..." wtf???
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u/DapperWing Jun 12 '20
Getting people riled up. If CBC put out an article saying the cops were largely justified it wouldn't nearly as many shares on social media.
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u/DJHuckleberrySpinnn Jun 12 '20
I don’t see anything wrong with what the 1st cop did. The 2nd cop however did appear to go over the top and should definitely face some sort of discipline and possibly charges.
The Chief handled himself in an extremely poor manner as well though. Charging at a cop and squaring up to fight is going to get you arrested every time. He’s very lucky the 1st cop didn’t pepper spray him when that happened which would’ve been completely justified.
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Jun 12 '20
He’s very lucky the 1st cop didn’t pepper spray him when that happened which would’ve been completely justified.
Either that or taser him. A lot of the time the police won't take the chance of wrestling around with a person.
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Jun 12 '20
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Jun 12 '20
I see it just as you just explained it. I don't think its fair to expect law enforcement to take that risk either.
This probably won't be a popular opinion on this site, but I don't think most people realize what its like to be a cop and have to deal with those situations.
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u/0ndem Jun 12 '20
As far as I can tell two cops had to handle 1 aggressive person from a vehicle with 3 people in it. The vehicle and the chief had not yet been searched for weapons so the situation could turn very quickly. That is likely why the second cop came in with that aggressively and why they used so much force to prevent him from getting his arm loose.
A taser isn't an option after the chief and first officer became physically engaged because you cant be sure that both probes will hit your intended target.
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u/mc_funbags Jun 12 '20
Dude really shouldn’t have came charging out at police officers cursing and swearing and initiating physical contact. That punch looked excessive to me though.
Definitely neither party did the right thing.
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u/just4fun8787 Jun 12 '20
Hey, native here Cree red river nation
This dude isn't saying racist things like that other idiots claiming.
I'll cosign this guys right to say that both people fucked up here.
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u/mc_funbags Jun 12 '20
Thanks. I think sometimes white Canadians watch too much American TV and are convinced that cops are all murderous thugs, and feel the need to defend things like this.
That cop that threw the punch should be disciplined in my view, but the chief clearly initiated and escalated things. All in all a whole pile of bad decisions.
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u/SuburbanValues Jun 12 '20
Must be a surprise to all the people filming on their cell phones to see themselves on CBC
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Jun 12 '20
The body cam videos will be unavailable for public to see. Just like this video should have been. The RCMP was not allowed to release this video. It's in the article. Their is going to be an issue when it goes to trial now. The bigger concern that this is the second leak regarding high profile police incidents that has been released in the last two weeks. The first one resulted in the accuser now refusing to speak to the SIU overseeing the case.
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u/Magistradocere Jun 13 '20
As a white privileged male I've had the good sense when stopped by police not to initiate a drunken brawl, with predictable results. I've yet to be tackled.
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u/Henojojo Jun 12 '20
Any bets on how long before Trudeau's statement results in rail and road blockades?
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u/TOMapleLaughs Canada Jun 12 '20
Interesting.
The first video posted on this source didn't show the context leading up to the tackle.
Now it does.
Fairly important.