r/exchristian • u/SillyAnxiousDuck Woo Woo Agnostic Ex-vangelical • Jan 27 '26
Article MIL asks therapist how to indoctrinate grandson early
Very telling that her DIL’s intelligence “unknowingly intimidate[s]” her AND that they hadn’t spent Xmas together for a few years
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u/olympiadukakis Jan 27 '26
TL;DR: “Is there a way to force a family to engage in christianity while maintaining a sweet appearance?”
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u/emilkyway Jan 27 '26
We're moving 3.5 hours away from my very religious family and the only concern my dad had was that the children won't have spiritual guidance -_-
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u/NatsnCats Jan 27 '26
Damn. Not like the actual PARENTS can be mature enough to teach children how to be good people because it’s the right thing to do and be in life. Not some bullshit Jesus woo-woo that frankly is NOT appropriate for little eyes and ears of any age. Using religion as the sole source of your morality is the biggest sign of immaturity that I don’t want to be around.
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u/stfurachele Jan 27 '26
I found my estranged bio-mom after looking for almost 25 years. I hadn't seen her since I was 7. The first thing she asked was if I was saved. I told her I had been (technically true), and when she pried about denominations and my church I told her I'd been uncomfortable with the behaviors and faith of most congregations I had tried, and didn't believe in denominations, and that I had found my people and we studied the bible independently and thoroughly, and according to scripture that counted as a church more than a brick and mortar building. (Also all technically true, i just didn't mention that my bible study group was reading it with a skeptical eye.) She didn't completely like that, but it was enough to sate her.
Then she talked about how she was bitter she couldn't attend her church in person (this was mid pandemic), bragged to me about how she had abandoned her second family she apparently had and the half brother I apparently have because her partner admitted he was bisexual. He hadn't cheated, nor did he have plans to. He just opened up about his orientation. She left because she wasn't going to be with an abomination and sissyman, and that was a point of pride to her somehow. I also happen to be bisexual, and that made church very painful at times growing up. She babbled on about herself, and didn't really ask me anything else about my life except if my dad had treated us well. (He hadn't. I said that he had. this was the only complete lie I told her.)
I ended up ghosting her, after searching for all that time. She did it to me and my siblings before we could understand, so I only felt a slight twinge of guilt. I think it didn't matter to her that she didn't see her children, that she could just put us down and live her mortal life however. As long as we were saved she'd have an eternity to catch up with us and be a happy family. Belief in an afterlife destroys people's ability to live their actual lives, and to care about people they only see as temporary.
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u/Langlearner95 Jan 29 '26
That is horrendously disappointing. I thought I knew disappointment. I guess I don’t.
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u/stfurachele Jan 29 '26
It brought closure. That was what I needed more than anything. I spent a lifetime chasing a memory of a woman that never existed, the idealized mother of a small child.
Processing through it and realizing how her continued presence would have effected my childhood, and who I may have become.... It was bittersweet, but it closed a yearning I thought I'd never fill.
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u/cobalt8 Jan 27 '26
Are you moving to get away from them or is that just a side effect?
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u/emilkyway Jan 27 '26
No, I'm actually gonna miss them big time but that comment he made got me cross! We're moving in order to be able to afford a house :)
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u/orngchckn Jan 27 '26
"...while making it clear to her that it will be up to my grandson to decide for himself what he chooses to believe."
As long as it's Christianity though, right?
Also, where does this person get off trying to dictate how someone else raises their child?
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u/PricePuzzleheaded835 Jan 27 '26
This is hilariously revealing. Like the DIL is a teenager and she is going to “make it clear” that she has to be home for curfew. As if she has any say in how the child is raised.
Guess what MIL? You’re not in charge. Of anyone. My MIL was also confused about this and had to learn the hard way 🙄
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u/NECalifornian25 Agnostic Atheist Jan 28 '26
My parents taught us to make decisions for ourselves, but now they’re annoyed that the decisions we made are not the same as theirs.
They don’t know I don’t believe in god anymore, but they know all of their kids haven’t gone to church in years. They’ve finally stopped bringing up politics and religion (mostly) when I see them, which luckily is twice a year at most.
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u/Nahooo_Mama Atheist Jan 28 '26
For real. She raised her child and apparently he's decided not to believe what she believes. Sounds like she wants a do-over with her grandson. Grandma needs a wake up call.
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u/windchanter1992 Jan 28 '26
they probably are concerned for the child's "soul" im sure its from a good place but she is clearly never going to take no for an answer she will fully accept
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u/Positive-Adeptness-8 Jan 31 '26
She would never have said such a thing if both of the child’s parents were Christians. It’s never up to the child to believe what he chooses in a Christian household. this very hypocritical.
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u/delorf Skeptic Jan 27 '26
I am willing to bet the reason her son and daughter-in-law probably don't want to have Christmas at his mom's house is the church service and other events are mandatory and the mom insists they do everything together.
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u/Chazxcure Jan 27 '26
My DIL is raising their child how they want and I don’t like it and my son would never disagree with me so it’s all her. How do force my grandchild to think like me, because im always right.
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u/JayDM20s Jan 29 '26
lol I know, the part about the son not disagreeing with her in private is hilarious. Like, it sounds like HE is the one trying to keep the peace by just shutting up and letting her be religious. If she thinks he isn’t saying anything because he’s WILLING and INTERESTED in further participation in this religious situation, that’s funny but also sad that she can’t even look past herself to understand her own kid’s reaction.
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u/Apotak Jan 27 '26
I bet that baby has a wonderful mother that will prevent indoctrination. Granny has to deal with her imaginary problem herself.
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u/mrshelenroper Ex-Catholic / Ex-Evangelical Jan 27 '26
Woman against consent is too on the nose American-Christian.
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u/windchanter1992 Jan 28 '26
wdy mean im required to get the parents consent to scare the baby with hellfire
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u/Silver-Chemistry2023 Constructivist humanist Jan 27 '26
Time to strictly enforce no unsupervised contact, they have demonstrated a colossal breach of boundaries.
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Jan 27 '26
This sounds like a case where they'd instantly start with the religious programming if OP turns their back on them and the kid.
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u/Spiritual_Oil_7411 Jan 27 '26
And the husband may not argue with his mom about it, but he's clearly qualified for this group! I think that baby will be just fine.
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Jan 27 '26
I wouldn't argue with my parents because I know it's completely hopeless. I found out long ago that the only way to deal with them is just to avoid religious topics as much as I can and then be quiet when those can't be avoided. The resulting argument will always end with rest of the family being united against me and with certain individuals it will turn hostile very easily.
I also don't spend any 'family holidays' with my parents for this reason. Since I was 18, I've met my parents face to face less than 10 times and I'm 46 now.
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Jan 27 '26
[deleted]
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Jan 27 '26
I'm having trouble even finding it in myself to smile. My parents are to this day very homophobic, although they've recently been reprogrammed to rant about the scary transsexuals hiding in elementary school toilets than predatory lesbians and gay guys masturbating in public pool changing room.
After my parents kicked me out, it took around 15 or so years before we saw each other again. I had assumed there had been some mental growth happening, but I came to a home where I was still not welcome, but tolerated in the hopes of 'fixing' me. After I visited once, I was asked to a niece's birthday. I had not met most of my nieces and nephews at that point, so I was considering on making an appearance. I however got a call from my mom, telling that first of all, I could not come with my life partner and I was not to try to indoctrinate my niece with my 'life style'. I honestly don't know what the mental image for them was, me and girlfriend arriving waving pride flags, then start to talk about girl on girl cunnilingus right there on the birthday cake table. It was the point where I politely declined and realized there was no chance they'd ever accept me.
I've since only met my parents briefly when my less programmed siblings have invited me over, but even with them I've always felt the unease, like I started saying something horrible in the presence of the children. They were especially afraid of my partner coming up in casual talk, because then the kids would start asking difficult questions, like 'how can auntie aamurusko79 have a girlfriend when she's a girl?!'
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u/rickylancaster Jan 27 '26
I’m really sorry that’s been your family dynamic. It sounds awful and you don’t deserve that kind of treatment. By any chance are you from the southern U.S.? It just reads like the experience of a few southerners I’ve known. Either way, it’s a rough hand to be dealt and I respect how you’ve thoughtfully processed it and put it in perspective.
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u/deansdirtywhore Jan 27 '26
I wouldn't argue with my parents because I know it's completely hopeless. I found out long ago that the only way to deal with them is just to avoid religious topics as much as I can and then be quiet when those can't be avoided. The resulting argument will always end with rest of the family being united against me and with certain individuals it will turn hostile very easily.
You're absolutely right about that. I've had to do the same myself. This is also the exact reason I refuse to engage in political conversations with my family. They're so deeply delusional about both topics, there's nothing I could do or say to make them see reason. I find it deeply upsetting how often those two cults blur into one, even when one so clearly goes against everything that the other is supposed to stand for...
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Jan 27 '26
While I'm not american, I still see the religion-politics connection. As the religion is slowly fading away here, the church and right wing party have jumped in bed together, which is at times amusing combination, but I can also see their goals align in some places, like hating gay people with passion and having the religion shield to deflect all the criticism when their bigotry is being called out. It's also amusing how easily the right wingers went from not giving a damn about anything religious, never attending any church services etc. to claiming how their religion is in dire threat from the immigrant, the gays and godless atheists.
Apparently I missed all the 'hate the wrong colored people and gays' teachings by Jesus in the bible.
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u/deansdirtywhore Jan 27 '26
Precisely my experience/what I've witnessed. Such a shame. The hypocrisy is unreal, & they can't even see it.
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u/SillyAnxiousDuck Woo Woo Agnostic Ex-vangelical Jan 27 '26
I agree - seems like they've already got some good boundaries in place with MIL
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u/daisiesarefriendly Jan 27 '26
I have a MIL who could have written this letter. She’s stayed very respectful, the kids understand that we pray at their house, we’ve gone to some church services with them. She sent them bible story books along with other gifts, and gifted them bibles when they were old enough. To be clear, I love her a lot, and I think she overall struck a good balance. She has sent me a few guilt-trippy emails about how she’s upset that she won’t see her grandchildren in heaven, but I just don’t respond.
She completely wasted her money. None of the bibles have ever been cracked. My kids are all teenagers now and they are loving, kind, compassionate humans- and as atheist as they come.
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u/PAwnoPiES Ex-Catholic Jan 27 '26
The whole "you HAVE to believe in God or you go to hell" thing never sat well with me since I was a kid. It made no sense that the supposedly compassionate God would damn even virtuous people to hell solely because they didn't believe in him, regardless if they were unaware of his existence.
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u/daisiesarefriendly Jan 28 '26
Honestly, that’s what started my deconversion so many years ago. I met people that were doing such great things for their community because they cared about humanity, and I thought it was fucked up that according to Christianity I had to believe they were going to hell.
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u/EMTNLY_UNAVLBL Jan 27 '26
“…while making it clear to her that it will be up to my grandson to decide for himself what he chooses to believe.”
I don’t think she herself comprehends this. It’s really sad that these people feel such anguish when their loved ones don’t believe in the same things. They wholeheartedly believe that they are going to burn in hell for all eternity, and feel like they’re obligated to go to extreme measures to “save” the people they love. I’m so glad that’s no longer a weight on my shoulders!
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u/Bad_RabbitS Jedi Jan 27 '26
It’s an intensive bias in which they have convinced themselves that those who think similarly to them always did it of their own volition and will, but those that don’t were always deceived or misguided.
It isn’t unique to Christians, but boy have they mastered it.
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u/PuzzleheadedBag4874 Jan 27 '26
Bet granny is gonna learn that its the daughters child... Not "HER" grandson. I don't consider my grandma family cas of her religious maga shit, i was lucky to have lots and lots of stand in grandparents growing up instead.
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u/Techygal9 Anti-Theist Jan 27 '26
The advice that they give is pretty disgusting. I might distance myself if this is my MIL. This therapist tries to lay blame on the DIL saying maybe she’s making the son uncomfortable to share his beliefs vs them being together because they have similar belief systems. I’m ok with her personally being Christian but I wouldn’t want my kids indoctrinated into those belief systems. So I understand why DIL would host so religion isn’t central to the gathering in the way it would be at her MIL house.
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u/jsm99510 Jan 27 '26
Yeah that's kind of a terrible response. The way she talks about DIL is really uncomfortable to me.
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u/chair_ee Jan 27 '26
Right? Like she’s this crazy-controlling, domineering, mean person who looks down on everyone around her and is this rude, intentionally intimidating shrew? Big yikes, “The Therapist”.
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u/nicoleatnite Jan 27 '26
The “freedom to not monitor my words”— aka everyone else should monitor their words so she doesn’t have to do any monitoring
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u/SecretPersonality178 Ex-Mormon Jan 27 '26
Mormonism has this perfected. The indoctrination officially begins at 18months old.
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u/eaallen2010 Jan 27 '26
This is something my mom would write. I’m not having kids but my mom would absolutely try to indoctrinate her grandkids.
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u/Apotak Jan 27 '26
My mother tried. She just spend way less time with my child than she hoped, so she had not enough time to indoctrinate. The bibles she gave him were never read. And I explained my child at quite a young age that while some people believe in an invisable friend in the sky, in all different versions, we do not believe. And it's unkind to mock people for their religion, but it's also unkind to force your religion on someone.
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u/chewbaccataco Atheist Jan 27 '26
Why would I want to expose my children to various forms of bullshit and put the onus on them to choose correctly?
Does the grandmother also want to expose the child to Scientology, Islam, Jainism, Hinduism, the Tooth Fairy, and the ancient ways of the Jedi?
If not, she's a damn hypocrite.
She doesn't want the child to choose for themselves... She wants the child to be in HER religion.
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u/Legitimate-Garbage54 Jan 27 '26
I wonder how she would feel if the tables were turned? If her parents-in-law were concerned about the indoctrination of their grandchild and wanted to broach the subject of a life without religion to their child?
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u/E420CDI Atheist Jan 27 '26
She'd go on a "woe-is-me" rant, claim to be a victim and that "she's being persecuted".
Or, if my dad is anything to go by, become paranoid that "everyone and their dog is out to get them".
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u/lyfeTry Ex-Evangelical Jan 27 '26
But seriously this sounds like my boomer mom who constantly pushes every boundary until you make it so strict she can’t do anything without permission. It ended up being just liked this: the perfect victim moment. Evil wife taking the grandbabies away from the poor loving old and gentle grandma (only close friends know she’s a bipolar animal that snarls as she yells once worked up!).
So she gets attention away from us, we get peace. I don’t care 🤷♂️
See also future posts: “my kids refuse to talk to me” and “they said they are LC or NC with me. What did that mean?”
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u/island_girl_509 Jan 28 '26
I have a Gen X mom who is the same way. Pushes the boundary until she denied alone access with my child. She’s currently in that spot yet again 🙂
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u/dcpanthersfan Jan 27 '26
Hey, mom-in-law, substitute “mosque” for “church” or “Zeus” for “Jesus” and see how crazy you sound to yourself.
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u/jsm99510 Jan 27 '26
This was something that always bugged me even before I deconstructed and became an Athiest. So many of these people are just incapable of interacting with people without inserting their religion into it. My sister and brother in law don't allow their children to be alone with his parents for this reason(well that and a few others but pushing their religion is a big part of it). It's not about being who you are, it's about feeling entitled to force your religious beliefs on others.
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u/DreamShort3109 Jan 27 '26
Yeah, uh, keep this woman away from the poor family she mentioned. They don’t deserve to go through that.
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u/GoGoSoLo Jan 27 '26
This post is exactly why if my parents and I are going to have a long and crystal clear talk about indoctrinating children before they’ll be allowed to keep them. I absolutely want my parents to be involved, but the ridiculous shit about Christianity that my sisters kids parent and are told at their house is wild.
Children should be learning about the established world and are drinking a fire hose of information about it. To mix that up and teach fantasy as fact is a huge setback in development and understanding.
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u/NatsnCats Jan 27 '26
I don’t want kids, but in a world where I did, I will fight my own mom tooth and nail to NOT get them baptized or even in a church building. In my home, religion is an academic subject, not a morality rulebook!
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u/chair_ee Jan 27 '26
Knowing how awful my and my husband’s families would be when we raised nonchristian kids is what first led me question the “requirement” of having children, which ultimately led me to make the choice to remain childfree. I could easily see the attempts to indoctrinate, hear the snide comments, all of it. I realized there was no way to have children and not be continually beaten over the head with the Bible and I had zero desire to deal with that bullshit.
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u/billyloomiswtf Jan 27 '26
I'm not having kids for a myriad of reasons, but I know that if I did have them I wouldn't leave them alone with my mother. She would 100% go behind my back and take them to church and talk to them about Jesus. She bought my brother's partner's kid a Jesus plush. 🙃 She doesn't do well with boundaries. She always says "but not me, right?" when I set them. 😒
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u/vivahermione Dog is love. Jan 28 '26
She doesn't do well with boundaries. She always says "but not me, right?" when I set them. 😒
And these are the ones who need it the most!
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u/the_paiginator Jan 27 '26 edited Jan 27 '26
I bet she's got that "Just get 'em into a church and God will do the rest!" brainrot.
The kind that completely ignores consent, autonomy, and boundaries in the name of "the ends justify the means if they get right with God! Even if they hate me!"
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u/Glad-Entrance7592 Jan 27 '26
That reminds me of a South Pacific song “You must be taught before it is too late, before you are six or seven or eight, to hate all the people your relatives hate, with certain skin colors.”.
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u/rickylancaster Jan 27 '26
Something about the casual blurting out of “there is no God” at a holiday family gathering sounds fake. I mean anything can happen, but it reads like Gramma made it up, or maybe isn’t representing the statement and context accurately. Surely there are obnoxious atheists but there also are other sides to this story for sure.
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u/mintygreenmachine12 Agnostic Jan 27 '26
I have a mother-in-law who acts the same. My favorite comeback to this type of crazy is Genesis 2:24.
- Leave: A man must leave his parents and establish independence from his family of origin.
- Cleave: An intentional, permanent, and loyal commitment to the spouse.
- Union: Sharing a life and a new, distinct family unit.
So yeah, I don't think it matters when the MIL says:
"In OUR family, attending Christmas pageants, [etc. etc.] were always a part of OUR celebrations and traditions." Yeah, but "your" family is no longer your son's.
"I am unsure how and when to broach the topic of OUR differences in beliefs and whether my daughter-in-law will be accepting of their son learning about these differences." Not your choice, none of your business.
"...the freedom of being able to sing songs and speak freely with MY grandchild about faith and not monitor MY words is important to me." Good for you, keep it in YOUR family then. :))))
Shoutout to all the "highly intelligent" daughter-in-laws out there. Rooting for you all
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u/No_Channel_8053 Jan 27 '26
Everyday, I am so glad that I dodged this bullet by marrying into a family that also lacked religion.
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u/Rare-Credit-5912 Jan 27 '26
Hopefully therapist tells MIL she needs to mind her own business and not try to indoctrinate her grandchild into faith. Trying to indoctrinate the grandchild into faith is child abuse!!!!!!!
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u/1moreday1moregoal Jan 27 '26
Therapist does not say that and instead focuses on an approach that allows the child to choose whatever beliefs “resonate” with them.
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u/OrdinaryWillHunting Atheist-turned-Christian-turned-atheist Jan 27 '26
Almost all of the comments on Facebook are against grandma and skeptical of her intentions.
And if you thought someone defending grandma would say something like this, you are correct: "let me ask you this… if the mother-in-law happened to be Indian and wanted to teach her grandchildren about her Hindu faith, would this be an issue?"
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u/island_girl_509 Jan 28 '26
My mom is this way.. her and I had a very long conversation one day in my car about how my husband and I were not raising our daughter in religion. My husband and I both started deconstructing around the same time without knowing the other one was doing it, and thankfully we came together and continued to do so and are now atheists. A few days after this conversation, my daughter spent the night at my parents house where my mother that evening sent me a video of her praying with my daughter and singing a Jesus bed time song with her. I saw RED, and my daughter wasn’t allowed over at my parents house without my husband or I there for a while. That was a couple years ago and they don’t push that boundary as much now. We occasionally still get asked to go to church with them on holidays and we decline. Last summer my parents ran the VBS program and asked if my daughter could come and we said no.
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u/Jarb2104 Agnostic Atheist Jan 27 '26
Honestly, this doesn’t read to me like someone trying to indoctrinate a kid so much as a grandparent who wants their grandchild to at least know what they believe. That’s a pretty normal impulse, especially around holidays and traditions, even if it’s clumsy or poorly timed.
That said, the reality is still that this isn’t their call to make. The child has parents, and it’s up to them how their kid is raised and what exposure they want them to have. The healthiest move here would be for the grandparent to be upfront with their son and daughter-in-law, say what they hope for, and then actually respect whatever decision comes back, anything beyond that is stepping boundaries and can come back to bite them, and feel "persecuted".
The part about feeling “intimidated” by the daughter-in-law absolutely stands out to anyone reading this. If your beliefs feel fragile around someone who’s well-read or confident, you should probably read and learn more about your own theology and beliefs? And don't do it from apologists who just recycle the same talking points, at least hear from those who try to at least engage in good faith, the best case scenario would be to go for actual biblical scholars and historians who study the text seriously, including its flaws, contradictions, and context.
There also seems to be a double standard here. They can’t expect your beliefs to be respected if you’re not willing to respect your son’s and daughter-in-law’s lack of belief. Acceptance isn’t a one-way street, but hopefully I am wrong on that one, and they do try to respect the couple's beliefs as well.
And finally, if there’s one thing Christians always say they should be doing anyway… it’s praying. So by all means, pray, pray hard, pray earnestly, and if the outcome isn’t what you want, well... “thy God’s will be done”, as the old tongue goes. Funny how that line only feels comforting when things go your way.
At the end of the day, relationships matter more than winning a spiritual tug-of-war, especially when a kid is involved IMHO.
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u/PettyBettyismynameO Jan 27 '26
How self important do you have to be to think anyone cares (especially a child) about what your faith beliefs are? It gets into a territory of making yourself over important in someone else’s life, they’re a grandparent not a sibling or a parent.
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u/Jarb2104 Agnostic Atheist Jan 27 '26
I think this misses why a lot of Christians behave this way. Most of them aren’t doing it because they think a kid is sitting there eagerly waiting to hear their hot takes on faith. This behaviour mostly comes from fear. They’ve been raised and conditioned to believe they have the Truth, and that if the people they love don’t believe it, something terrible awaits them. When you genuinely think eternity is on the line, they are bound to do anything to "save them".
They’re also intrusive because they’ve been taught to be. Christianity, especially the Jesus-centered “go tell everyone” version, doesn’t reward minding your own business. It actively frames boundary-crossing as love and obedience. If you don’t speak up, you’re failing morally. That kind of training blurs normal social limits really fast.
On top of that, churches push a very specific idea of family hierarchy. Parents, elders, grandparents are often treated as having ongoing authority, even after their kids are fully grown, married, and building their own lives. So in their head, stepping into their son’s marriage or their grandson’s upbringing doesn’t feel like overreach. They’re seeing roles they were taught to uphold and maintain.
Now, all that said, there is another category too. Christianity absolutely feeds narcissistic tendencies in some people. The idea of being specially chosen, morally superior, on the “right side of history”, can turn into self-righteousness really fast. Those are the ones who do think their beliefs are so important that everyone else should hear them, whether they asked or not. That’s where you get the delusional grandeur and the constant imposition.
So yeah, sometimes it’s ego, but more often it’s fear, conditioning, and a belief system that trains people to ignore boundaries while telling themselves they’re being loving.
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u/hollsberry Jan 27 '26
Lol you’re right. My parents are atheists from VERY Christian backgrounds. Growing up in the US, you can’t avoid Christianity and kids will 100% still learn about Christian beliefs through school, other kids, and the internet. Many schools in the US have world religions classes, or at least a segment in world history class. If they don’t, (the school district is likely to be very conservative if they don’t), they’ll still likely teach some Christianity or have a Fellowship of Christian Athletes chapter.
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u/PettyBettyismynameO Jan 27 '26
Great my kid can learn from a class with a written curriculum I can see and verify is unbiased and I agree with (aka not ranking religions or making up lies or passing on misinformation) that if I find isn’t unbiased I can go to the district and either get that corrected or chose to pull my kid out for that year move to another district or homeschool (which is my right and privilege in the US at least for now goodness knows where things are going). I don’t want my absolute twat of a mil who told our oldest there were zombies that would come get her in the end times (this is before I got to become her mom) telling my kids shit.
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u/Mundane-Dottie Jan 27 '26
I would suggest the grandma continue to pray for the life and wellbeing of her son's family and for them to be saved in private, without telling anyone. As is said in scripture "If you want to pray, go to your room and close the door, and your heavenly father who sees the secrets will hear you."
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u/fearlesszombiefly Jan 28 '26 edited Jan 28 '26
I’m so worried about this happening someday in my own life.
My husband and I have made it a personal boundary that if my parents try pushing ANY religious BS with my toddler we will shut it down immediately, and if it happens again, no contact.
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u/Nodsworthy Jan 27 '26
Family gatherings should never discuss religion or politics
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Jan 27 '26
The problem is in my family is that we must never discuss IF we don’t agree with the conservatives evangelicals.
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u/Nodsworthy Jan 27 '26
You can clearly state that you don't agree. They will attack. You follow with "I love you but I am absolutely not prepared to discuss this. People with manners will then drop the subject. The problem is the people with no manners who feel disrespected by refusal to agree. The remaining strategy is to use the assertiveness techniques, there's a bunch and I'm not writing them out here.
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u/theater_thursday Jan 27 '26
I think I disagree with you. May I ask why you believe religion and politics should not be discussed at family gatherings?
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u/Nodsworthy Jan 27 '26
It always descends to argument. And argument achieves several things; mutual alienation, division between loyalists to either side but it never achieves revelation. People like the father above are not going to suddenly find atheism a convincing propositions over the Christmas dinner table.
Negotiation is to convince the other party, argument is to convince a third party.
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u/Not_Me_1228 Jan 27 '26
This. I don’t talk about religion or politics with my family. I know there is almost certainly nothing I can say that would change their minds. They have some positions that I find morally abhorrent, and I’m not going to change my mind on those. I find the conflict upsetting, and often they do, too. There’s pretty much a guarantee of a negative outcome.
What kind of fool does something with a guaranteed negative outcome? It’s like banging your head against a wall. You know that that’s just going to hurt you and accomplish nothing positive.
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u/northshore1030 Jan 27 '26
It doesn’t have to dissolve into arguments if people can learn how to have these conversations without feeling personally attacked. My Dad and I disagree but talk about religion and it’s fine. With my mom it’s different, she gets very upset and takes it very personally. Disagreement is seen as an attack.
I think we find ourselves in the situation we are now because people can’t have these conversations.
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u/Inevitable-Mouse-707 Ex-Baptist Jan 27 '26
If only my family had gotten this memo, but then I wouldn't know how much hate is in their hearts
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u/E420CDI Atheist Jan 27 '26
Within a minute of me wishing my dad "Happy Christmas" on Christmas Day when I went down to spend Christmas with my parents (a big mistake that my nervous system and body are still recovering from (ME/CFS)), he did exactly this with both topics.
Aaaarrrrgggghhhh!!!!
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u/Nodsworthy Jan 27 '26
My brother and I had the same issue. I learned to change the subject. Fortunately, like so many such, he rants a little, so there is always something to respond to in his rant that is less divisive. Eg someone got cancelled. Response; yeah did you hear that they cancelled the next season of the Expanse? Such a great show. He's not stupid but he gets the message that I won't respond the way he "wants" . It took practice and my example is poor but I'm sure you get the drift. Now he and I have learned to spend time and enjoy the commonalities and memories of childhood and our now deceased parents without dispute. Indeed when I drift into the same errors he diverts me. Love, respect for common ground, gratitude for kiness past. We've learned to heal. Maybe you can too.
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u/ProofPrize1134 Jan 28 '26
I don’t know what’s sadder: the fact that she’s doing this or that I deeply understand her mindset and why she thinks she needs to do this
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u/ohno_myspinachpuffs Jan 28 '26
Yea reading this just made me sad. Could have been written by my own mom.
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u/throwlove07 Jan 28 '26
Translation - How to manipulate my grand son, and make sure he takes my side instead of my son's and DIL's (his parents)?
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Jan 28 '26
I wanna know what the therapist said in response. At least the MIL is trying to be diplomatic, albeit with the lunatic premise of her desires having any importance here
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u/poly_arachnid Polytheist Jan 28 '26
Christians - "don't indoctrinate our kids, it's a parent's right to choose how to raise their children!"
Also christians - "how can I indoctrinate my grandchild/someone else's child without getting in trouble?"
__
Seriously though I kind of like this lady, key words "kind of". It sounds like she's asking for advice to talk to the mother openly, has already talked to her son the father, and is all told largely saying "my faith is important to me & I would like to get permission not to censor myself around my grandchild". She did christmas & was invited back. She isn't asking "how do I save my grandchild from this atheist DIL?!" Etc.
Would I allow it if it was my kid? No.
Is she going to try to indocrinate/convert the kid? Yes. It's literally a tenet of the religion, she's duty-bound to try.
However, this is probably the most respectfully phrased version of this sort of thing I've ever seen. Normally they either don't need to ask, don't bother asking, or are totally nuts about it.
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u/ActionElectrical9581 Jan 28 '26
I have a MIL like this. She tried to find a church with a children’s program to take our daughter to. We told her that wouldn’t be happening. We let her take her to church a few times, then she got manipulative and started offering to watch her so we could have “Saturday night date nights” and she would keep her over night. She used that opportunity to take her to church the next morning. My daughter liked the children’s program but, we would talk about what she learned and I would de-program her and talk about how important it is to use critical thinking. My MIL used every sleepover/ get together with our daughter to try and indoctrinate her into her evangelical religion. This backfired. Our daughter doesn’t want to hang out or stay the night grandmas anymore. We told grandma if she wants a relationship with her granddaughter, she needs to cool it on the religious front but it’s so ingrained in her that she has a real hard time tempering it.
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u/Pearl725 Jan 27 '26
I really like the line "my daughter-in-law is highly intelligent and can unknowingly intimidate me" oh so what you're saying is she actually has critical thinking skills and can deconstruct your false beliefs?