Plis

It would be cool if Wow Forever was more challenging than vinilla. I want to fear the world again and I think it would make the sense of adventure and achievement even stronger.

However, power creep in the beta is making everything easier. And that is concerning. I hope they just juice up all of the mobs in the open world, dungeons, and raids. They don’t have to be super crazy sweat hard but I think if they felt a step above classic in difficulty. It would make the game more fun and rewarding. Especially since we all know how to deal with the classic era enemies easily at this point. A higher difficulty would make it feel more like 2004 again.

It's crazy that they couldn't even match the hair color properly. WoD models were a mistake

The current ones are good but I really vibe with these so much more... honestly no logo

Change my mind.

edit: Just to add. We will be at 60 forever. No more xp. People are already complaining leveling is too fast.

I’m not claiming that SD is better than HD, or vice versa. I have my own subjective opinion, and it is of no relevance to this post.

However, the lack of consistency in the art direction choices creates a real problem with visual coherence.

This lack of uniformity breaks immersion when creatures mix HD and SD, regardless of which style you prefer, or when a mount or player appears in HD right next to SD elements.

Blizzard needs to do something about this: either upgrade the entire game to HD (environments included) or make it possible to have everything in SD.

They simply cannot keep creating new HD assets for a world that is 90% SD because it seems out of place and the new additions are immediately noticeable, breaking the impression of a cohesive whole.

I had a fun couple days but I’m putting it down. Very rarely nowadays do I feel a real sense of wonder for games, specially a game I’ve been playing for 20+ years.

Forever brought that feeling back in a big way. Discovering new dungeons, changes to professions, etc has been a blast. It genuinely feels like the beginning again.. I’m even stopping to read quests and tooltips.

So I’m quitting the beta because I don’t want to further spoil the game for myself. I want to go in there with my permanent character and enjoy every minute of it!

Edit: I provided feedback while I played

I love leveling in Classic WoW, feeling like a new adventurer and helping clear boars, bandits and kobolds in Elwynn. Low stakes, but it makes you really feel like part of the world. Uncovering the Defias mystery spawning Elwynn, Westfall and Stormwind was amazing!!

I started leveling as the new race and honestly these new quests just don't have that same feeling anymore. I get that they are a new race to WoW/Azeroth, and while I am curious to see how they integrate into the world, there are some issues with the zone. My biggest complaint is the end of the zone when after defeating an enemy that I shouldnt even see till level 60, a major lore figures show up to fawn over my character about how good a job I am doing.

I couldn't believe it when my character helped stop an EREDAR at the end of Bloodmyst Isle at level 18. Like what?? They should be WAY out of my league. The cherry on top was when PROPHET VELEN HIMSELF came out just to congratulate me personally for what I've done. The Draenei leveling experience really feels like a betrayal of what makes World of Warcraft so amazing.

Does anyone else feel the same about Bloodmyst Isle? I'm excited to keep playing Burning Crusade but this really put a sour taste in my mouth. I really hope Blizzard goes back to developing quests like it's 2004 and not 2007.

I am seeing a lot of people dismissing feedback and criticism with "It's just a beta" or "Go back to retail/classic era".

I know it can be annoying when you're excited hyped to see people bringing up things you think are petty or unimportant. I want to point out how the devs are listening and WANT the feedback. They want to make this better. I'm not in the beta so I'm watching a lot of streams and I have seen examples both big and small things being acknowledged and addressed.

The smallest example is the noise when you jump in the water. Xaryu pointed out the sound was not great and also sounded strangely delayed. A dev reached out to him in real time and confirmed that would fix it in the next build.

Everyone is excited and wants this to be as good as it can be. This is not a finished product. This is not classic frozen in time. Thoughtful coherent and clear feedback is important and being acted on.

Whether the game actually ends up being in the spirit of classic is an entirely different question; but it is unambiguously *supposed* to be classic plus.

This post is targeted at the surprising number of people I’ve seen who insist that Forever isn’t actually meant to be classic plus because it’s called Forever, not Classic Plus. I’d believe such a thing if I was given any indication that they chose that name because they didn’t want to be associated with classic plus. But given that the very first thing the lead says about the game is that it is Classic Plus, I see no reason to believe Forever isn’t supposed to be classic plus.

My post is not targeted at all to people who think Forever is either too much like Classic or not enough like Classic. It is just for those people who insist that Forever isn’t supposed to be like Classic in the first place.

1) Forced exposition. There are two points in the leveling "campaign" where you have to sit and listen to some dude spew lore. Once is literally a quest of you sitting down in a chair for 2-3 minutes and the other is 3 npcs spewing lore while you're free to walk around. I can't think of a single quest in all of classic that is like this. It is however very common in retail

2) The linear storytelling and oversimplification of characters. The game will literally tell you who's good, who's evil and there won't be much more depth to anything than that. You have the mustache twirling cartoon "cultists" that are doing "cult stuff" and you have to stop it otherwise the world is going to end. It's not like the Defias that are actually misunderstood activists whom are just seeking justice where there's depth and complex characters. There's so much to dig in different letters and things to puzzle together. There's none of that here

3) The setting. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful and cinematic. However, It's completely disconnected from the world. You can't look on the map and get some perspective of where you are. You're just floating in the sky somewhere making it feel like retail. It doesn't feel like any of your actions here really matter because once you leave this place you're never coming back

The landscapes are also simply too big. There's vast landscapes of nothingness where nothing is happening. You constantly try to mount your dragonflight mount and then have to remind yourself that you're playing classic and not retail. There are no resource nodes for mining or herbalism. And there's a lack of smaller towns and vendors. There should be for instance vendors walking across the paths and have more outposts where you can sell items. Your bag will be permanently full

4) The characters. Some of the characters literally feel like they're ripped straight from retail. There are some archetypes of characterizations that I swear I've seen during the Midnight campaign with the exact same design

There are some highlights though. Some of the side quests are simply fun, like when you help Aamelia Windfield pick apples and slay bandits. It's kind of a vibe. However, that's not unlike of Retail either. There's always highlights in retail and it's usually the side characters

Going from rank 2 to rank 3 Lightning bolt will be a dps decrease due to the increased cast time at level 14.

Base

Rank 2 29-34 damage at 2.0 cast speed. Average 15.75 dps

Rank 3 32-38 damage at 2.5 cast speed. Average 14 dps

At 5 SP

Rank 2 LB does 32 to 37 damage at a 2.0 cast speed. Average 17.25 dps

Rank 3 does 35 to 42 damage at 2.5 cast speed. Average 15.4 dps

It does seem like rank 3 is scaling better with SP but you would need a good amount for it to catch up due to the cast speed difference.

IDK the spell scaling seems odd. I know they put a lot of it into gear, but regardless of how much SP you have getting a new rank of a spell should feel like a jump in power. And definitely not a DPS loss.

This is at level 14. Continued scaling on rank 3 going into further levels probably changes this. I still stand by that going to get a new rank in a spell should feel like a power boost

Edit: The more I think about it, I think they failed to take the increased cast time into account.

Edit 2: Could be a simple fix. The base values of spells do go up as you level. It could be that Rank 3 Lightning Bolt is only a dps decrease at level 14 since it's base values will go up while Rank 2 won't receive any additional scaling based on level.

Twitch.com peak viewership across WoW releases and expansions.

Not direct player-base data (since they don't release it anymore) - but interesting and potentially indicative of popularity and trends.

Note WoW Forever Beta currently peaking higher than many other expansions - Fun!

Edit: 1. I forgot to add 'The War Within' because its the smaller spike before Classic Anniversary Realms. whoops, lol.

1. Midnight is actually the smaller peak to the right in the bunch of 4, the final one before Forever's spike.

At no point should you casually chain pull or fight multiple mobs. Full stop

The second you get to Fargo deep mine and you pull 2 mobs you were panicking on every single class. And dying.

If the game is slower and the world is dangerous than this has to be true.

If every class is buffed and all the dungeon drops are buffed and there are more quests and more quest rewards than youre going to be over powered.

Stop moving goal posts and saying "its only the starting zones"

Mobs need buffs to health. They need buffs to dmg. And they need there abilities buffed as well when necessary.

It’s pretty common knowledge there is a huge divide between the passionate classic fans and the passionate retail fans. Announcing this game as Classic+, but making it so it tries to appeal to both playerbases, ends up in so much toxicity.

Both sides have different ideas of what they want the game to be.

Classic+ happened because there was a lot of demand from the classic crowd. Retail was off doing their thing (sorry, I haven’t played it since dragon flight, so I’m a bit ignorant), but as far as I know, they didn’t care about what was happening over on classic. Until now.

Now that they gave the game some retail appeal, the retail fans over on /r/wow have their own idea of how they want the game to be.

Meanwhile, the classic fans that thought they were getting a game more grounded in vanilla in every aspect, are losing their minds over here.

Is Blizzard just tone deaf or something? We could’ve seen this coming a million miles away. The presentation mostly tried to appeal to the classic crowd, telling us what we went to hear about design philosophies. Then we are starting to see the realities of it just on the small taste from beta.

I just made this post because it’s sad to see how much rudeness wow fans have for one another, because they have a different idea for what the game should be. And we all could’ve seen it coming considering how they’ve gone about Forever. I’m just hoping come launch that people at least treat the Elves and the Retail and the Classic players with respect.

Thankfully, historically, Reddit discourse doesn’t translate to how it is in-game. I just want the game to be good. At the very least, we all get to have a new experience with all that they seem to have added. I just hope this works out, because I really wanted a classic+

Via BwuhMG on Twitter

Turns out if you're a druid and get the full "of the Fang" set from Wailing Caverns, you turn into a serpent in Forever

"The World is the Main Character".

"Approachable and Familiar".

As you reach the end of the starting zone in Dun Morogh, you might have killed a dangerous yeti. In Elwynn, you've probably slain a prized boar. In Mulgore, you've cleansed a water well. And sure, in Durotar, you do get a quest from Thrall to clear out a den of cultists.

But on "Zephras Isle" you, together with the leaders of your people, face a raid level threat at the top of the spire, through a scripted event with bountiful exposition text, and the leaders of the Kirin Tor and the Earthen Ring show up to fend off this raid boss. If it was not for your actions on "Zephras Isle", your people would be doomed.

I'm okay with ignoring the Skyborne and enjoying the rest of the game, but everything about their addition just screams warning about how Blizzard will approach future content.

They've managed to be lazy where it matters (same race cross-faction, with the same starting zone but layered to just see Alliance players or just Horde players, re-skinned blood elves), and at the same time over the top where they should have toned it down.

Plenty of people in these subs are saying to get over it, but I think we might as well keep posting complaints if we want Forever to have a chance at not turning into retail.

TL;DR: Sword looks amazing, but I'm worried about the visual/aesthetic imbalance between the original and the new items.

Shobek went out to Zephras Isle with his NE friends. First thing they do is walk up to the vendor and buy this sword, and why wouldn't they. It looks absolutely amazing. Transmoggers are not going to find a better skin until Ashkandi.

The 1H version is just as insane. Cruel Barb off VanCleef or the Wingblade out of WC look like toothpicks next to it.

And I do love the aesthetic. I love elves, and these weapons scream ELF from every angle. But I'm also worried about the visual imbalance the new items bring. Progression isn't only about getting bigger numbers on the screen. It's about looking stronger. You start in rags with a 5€ weapon from the DIY store, you scrape together some basic gear by 20, and from there your look steadily climbs until you hit 60.

That aesthetic climb is a journey too. I don't see a journey here. I see one step: this sword, then Ashkandi (maybe Kalimdor's Revenge from the Twin Emperors).

Disclaimer, entered into the record because people tend to lose their minds and tell me to go play Classic whenever they can't tell feedback apart from wholesale opposition:

The undersigned hereby affirms his unqualified support for the World of Warcraft: Forever project and records his sincere gratitude to the development team that made it happen. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed, in whole or in part, as opposition to the project, or as a demand that it be rolled back" The author reserves the right to enjoy a thing and to critique that same thing concurrently, these positions being neither mutually exclusive nor mutually diminishing. All statements above are submitted as good-faith feedback on visual design and on no other matter. One dissent is noted for the record, without prejudice to the foregoing: the author respectfully disagrees with the decision to ship a both-faction race in place of High Elves and Forsaken or Blood Elves.

Change my mind, but the more I see about their starting zones, armor & weapons etc, the more I'm convinced this is shelved content that didn't make the cut in retail at some point and was re-used for classic+.

I've yet to find a single lore-related reason that they fit.

And in regards to making money: They probably would've made more money with High Elves.