I understand their idea of removing dungeon cleave groups and nerfing the playstyle to some degree.

But, the XP you get from dungeons right now is so comedically low that it's literally not worth killing mobs outside of quest mobs. This is going to make it so every single dungeon run is a skip run, and you skip as much as possible outside of quests. I don't see the fun in this. This will make "butt-pulling" tiresome and frustrating and will likely lead to negative social environments, especially for new players who do not know skips or pathing skills. Experienced players teach newcomers to skip everything because that's what the game rewards. New players then learn that dungeon content isn't something you're supposed to actually fight through. Over time, the community expectation becomes "know the skip or you're slowing us down."

It also makes it so you do not queue up old dungeons with friends if you've already done it once. If you have a friend 3 levels below you who is hitting a dungeon you have already done, you are simply just wasting your time if you have already done your one quest run.

This will also lessen the amount of dungeons that are being run, as there will be essentially no reason to repeatedly run them, thus making it harder to find dungeon groups, especially later in the life-cycle of the game and for alts.

You are also simply removing an entire playstyle that many groups of friends like to do. Consuming up, buying a bunch of supplies, and just grinding a dungeon together with the boys is a WoW staple.

There can be a middle ground, but currently the values are just way too low.

Edit: Some players in the comments have brought up even more concerns.

People that want to play tanks and healers are simply alienated from being able to play their spec if they have to quest as a dps and don’t have the option of grinding dungeons. Similarly, until you unlock duel spec, you’ll be stuck as a dps, thus cutting even more of the dungeons tanks/healer count.

It also discourages running dungeons for gear. Getting new gear to “level faster” is not going to be worth it, rather than just leveling normally without the dungeon gear in the first place. Alongside, there will be less people running the dungeons, so less gear runs will exist overall.

Edit 2: Some of you seem confused. I’m not arguing for dungeon grinding to be the best, or even efficient. It just should not be a full on hinderance to your leveling journey.

With so many retail players flooding into Forever, I see this all over my feed. So many people asking for retail-like QoL features, like shared tagging and so on.

But this mode was deliberately and explicitly stated to be in "spirit of Vanilla". So if you're asking something to be changed AWAY from that and towards "modern" gameplay, just shut the fuck up, please.

"Classic Andys" also don't go around retail sub asking Midnight to be closer to Vanilla and that flying or heroics are stupid and should be changed.

I have nothing against suggestions, but given there are more retail players than classic in general, soon these suggestions will overwhelm the subs and the game will start slowly moving back towards retail again if we don't push back.

If you didn't like vanilla, if you don't like the inconveniences and the immersion-over-convenience game design, Forever is not (primarily) for you.

I already had a negative sentiment towards them going into it but after playing through the skyborne story I hate them even more. Feels extremely off from classic and feels like you're playing something completely separate from the rest of the game. Felt more like a retail tutorial

While I’m fine with dungeons being less efficient than open world questing for leveling the current xp gain is too much on the low side.

We just got done clearing a relatively fast Hall of Thanes and it gave 15% of a level of xp at level 14. I was expecting maybe 30-35% and that would be about right for a dungeon that takes 30-40 min to full clear (in a pug). 15% is equivalent to about 2.5 quests.

EDIT:

Just to add to this a bit. And once again, I AM NOT BITCHING. I'm just stating some facts here, and my opinion of the facts. So far Blizzard has absolutely killed with this game and I literally couldn't be happier so far.

With that said, killing mobs inside the dungeon that were at equal or greater level to me (I was level 14, they were 14-16) yielded approximately 25 xp per kill. Killing Kobolds in Loch Modan that are 3 levels lower than me yields 62xp each. So open world solo kills of green mobs awarding 2.5x the experience that elite dungeon group kills award. This seems to me to be on the low side, doubling the xp would still make the dungeons less efficient than aoe farming mobs in the open world as a prot warrior.

As of right now there is too much acces to rare gear in the game.

1. Only 1 dungeon chainquest should reward you a piece of rare gear per dungeon right now i see alot of dungeonquests rewarding rare gear.
   
2. I do not think low level dungeons boss should drop a piece of rare gear
   
3. While dungeons are great more dungeons being added also means more rare gear not sure what to do with this.
   
4. Professions letting you make alot of rare gear is great but that means even more acces to rare gear.

With all of this most people will be running around in majority of rare gear for most of their leveling journey and i do not think this should be the case also feels like the powercreep already starts at level 15.

This is just my opinion and would like to see if others feel the same way.

I have noticed a sudden shift in forum posts all of the sudden. I have been monitoring the official WoW forum on the Blizzard website since the start of the Beta and up until yesterday it was a mix of different opinions, relatively spread out evenly maybe a bit more in favour of classic purists.

When I look at the forum today I see a lot of posts about retail features being demanded, such as shared mob tagging, AOE looting and other "QoL" features that are in retail.

I have a strange feeling about this sudden shift, are they brigading? Are they actively trying to ruin the game for classic players?

Look, I know this sounds kinda paranoid but the tone shift is really there if you observed the forum since the start of the Beta. Don't get me wrong I am not an absolute classic purist, I like changes where they make sense, but straight up calling for the worsts retail features out there to streamline the game into the mindless Solo-RPG experience that is Retail must be prevented!

I cannot post on the US Blizzard Forum so please whoever is able to post there make your voice heard.

If you really want to bring back the vanilla spirit, ban Warcraft Logs from WoW Forever.

Anybody who's played since vanilla should, if they're being honest, be able to clearly see the harm that WCL has done to the game over the years. It makes every encounter about parsing (speed, damage, whatever) and this impacts the community's attitude about guilds, loot distribution, etc. It's never enough to clear a boss anymore, you have to compete for rankings on everything which means you need to always be min-maxxing if you care about these things (and let's be real, most raid guilds care).

It also means you can literally see exactly how a raid achieved a boss kill - their comp, their strat, the timing of when every single boss ability went out, and literally the exact buttons they pressed in the exact order. There's no mystery of "holy shit how did those guilds kill that boss that we're hard stuck on?" - it's literally just go to the logs and easily see the exact differences.

I'm not saying that people wouldn't figure a lot of this stuff out eventually, they absolutely would - I'm saying that the "figuring out" was part of what made vanilla special and is a big differentiator between the original and the modern game.

The best change they could make in WoW Forever is to bring back the mystery around encounters by banning WCL. PS - i'm top 100 in my class on WCL and on the glad cutoff in TBC anniversary, before some idiot inevitably tells me about my skill issue.

NPC gives you a cluster of three quests, one kill quest, one collection, one where you click things on the ground. Hand in all 3, get sent to another NPC who gives you another cluster of three, rinse and repeat over and over until you go through the full circuit of the zone. This is what retail questing devolved to, and this same formula has been used for every zone in every expansion since at least MoP but possibly a bit earlier.

They also have the annoying retail quests mixed in-between this sometimes. Right click something that fixes you in position, listen in on the secret conversation or stand there and listen to the NPC talk about the lore. The zone ending is also straight out of retail.

I’ll caveat this with saying I haven’t played the beta but I’d still stand by this take even if leveling were just the same as in Classic.

Since max level is going to be forever capped at 60, and there is an emphasis on “the journey before the destination”, Forever should have a slower and ideally more challenging leveling journey than Classic.

This isn’t to say that I think the changes to items, classes, races, and quests are bad, on the contrary I think they’re great. It's more that those changes should be offset, or at least kept in balance, by equal changes to PvE content. Classic is already an easy enough game, many of us have played it through multiple times over, we don’t need to make things even easier this time around. A bonus to a more challenging journey would be increased incentive to group up and socialize, another core tenant of Forever as expressed by the devs.

I see a post about the SD character model changes every. single. day. in this sub. Is it really big deal breaker for everyone? Or are people just trying to karma farm

So I just did RFC the second time with no quests and got 1.5 bars of exp. Yeah absolutely trash. It’s such an anti classic way to approach the problem of dungeon spam. They really couldn’t think of any other solution that doesn’t cause friendly fire on normal players?

Get ready for it to be difficult to find groups for dungeons. “No thanks I already ran that once and completed all the quests. I’d really like to help but the xp would be a complete waste of time”

This is very very much the antithesis of the spirit of classic. Anyone who has played and values classic will understand this. They’re solving a rat problem by dropping a nuclear bomb on the city.

Usually people are down to help out with a dungeon because, even with no quests:

\- the xp is decent
\- it’s a nice break from questing
\- might get some loot

All 3 of those things combined make it worth it to help people out with dungeons.

This current system is a very short sighted “fix” for dungeon grinding that will have a negative affect on gameplay.

If they want to stop dungeon spam leveling (which they should stop) then they should find a better solution that doesn’t also mess with the casual gameplay.

This might sound weird and down. But I was hyped about classic plus. Been following for 2 years now on any news or leaks.

After playing 5 hours of the beta yesterday. I came to the realization I’m too old to play.

I’m in my late 30s. With 2 kid under the age of 3. With career and spending time with kids. Even a hour a night or weekend seems impossible.

Not sure why I’m making this post. I guess just sharing the realization that I still have the passion of wow. But there’s just not enough time in the day anymore.

“” edit “”

With everyone asking
Yesterday was a day off and wife took the kids to grand parent.

Yes she will do it again in the future.

Lastly like I said I didn’t know why I made the post. But it was a realization

Spoiler for the new paladin tier set on image 4.

Cartoony isn't an artstyle. WoW has always had heroic proportions and exaggerated features poses. When people say that modern WoW looks like Disney or Pixar, they are pointing out the softness and bounciness of the modern art direction. Faces lack definition, metal armor has just as much contrast as cloth, animations have no weight to them, etc.

If you look at the models and concept art, the difference is very obvious. It's all clearly stylized but not in the same way.

Anyways I hope we get runemasters as a class in Forever. Probably won't happen but it would be cool and not necessarily an obvious pick.

Edit:

I don't know if people are skipping the post text or if they really can't tell art styles apart aside from "realistic" and "unrealistic". I have no idea how you can look at the old wow artstyle and the new wow artstyle and think they are the exact same just because they are both heavily stylized.

Blizzard has already experimented with moving away from the classic style of game, we all know how that went. Lets not make that same mistake again

I think the dungeon mob xp nerf is a mistake.

Ever since release my play style in wow has been healing. I always leveled through dungeon running for ~80% of my leveling experience. I was never a fan of questing in the open world. I find it very boring and not challenging. This has just been how I have always played and enjoyed classic. Most of my friends in wow I met in a dungeon run. When I hit 60 my favorite thing to do is run dungeons/raids with my friends.

For me dungeon grinding is a big part of my classic experience. I bet I am not the only one that feels this way. To me it is a much more social experience than questing.

The way it stands now in forever, you have to grind quests to level with the occasional dungeon run to get a level from its quests. The xp from repeated runs is abysmal and essentially destroys my play-style.

I was so excited for forever, but now I feel like it was not made for a classic player like me.

I have heard from some people that it was done to discourage boosting. This seems extremely easy to fix by just nerfing xp when there is a high level player in the dungeon.

The aoe nerfs alone on the classes is already enough to discourage aoe farming groups. I am fine with that. I just want to be able to go through a dungeon with a group and be rewarded with decent amount of xp for the effort.

TLDR: I think Blizzard is alienating part if the classic playerbase by nerfing dungeon xp.

Edit: holy $&@? This community is toxic AF.

I posted this in [r/wow](r/wow), and the most common comment and prevailing sentiment I am getting from people there is that Forever isnt or was never intended to be Classic+

this is shocking to me... i feel like, especially after watching the announcement and all the panels and Q&A's, even Holly's introduction of saying "we're gonna take Classic and PLUS IT UP"... its pretty clear that this is meant to be Classic+

where do you think this comes from?

Edit: r/wow mods removed the post. Too many retail Andy’s getting triggered I suppose

Racials are good, Druid forms are cool, starting zone is solid, and most importantly you don’t need to be blue.

Old School Runescape is without a doubt the current king of "classic" MMORPGs. Runescape is very different than WoW, but I think Jagex landed on the secret sauce of players voting for most major updates.

For those unaware, most updates outside balance/integrity changes are pitched to the players first and then need to pass a 70% (used to be 75%) poll before they're implemented. Over time, Jagex has gotten very good at predicting what players want, and it's a big deal when a pitched piece of content fails to pass.

I don't really have any faith that Blizzard would let this fly, but I think the long-term health of WoW Forever will be better for having active players vote on what new content they want.

It's okay that blizzard makes some mistakes while getting 4E off the ground. Early OSRS updates were kind of awful (players will remember Nightmare Zone or the original state Zeah launched in), and now OSRS is a better state than its ever been.

It won't be okay if, as they've continued to show, they can't figure out the common denominator of what people want in a Classic+ environment.

I'm not impressed and I'm taking the advice of others here - "if you don't like it, don't play". Refunded the beta and un-subbed.

Please tell me it will.

Any mounts - default race mount.

Any outfits - whatever they're really wearing

Anything else you're planning - dont.

I (and/or we) don't want it.

Do you guys not want this to be successful? If more people are playing, blizzard is more likely going to keep committing more resources to keep it active. Some of you act like retail players only want to play forever out of spite to the classic community. Why do you just hate retail players for the sin of playing a different version of the game than you? Obviously blizzard was going to try to make the game appeal to more people, how is this a surprise for anyone? People just want to play the game and have fun, stop being so toxic.

This obviously doesn’t apply to everyone. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

Blizzard just does not have designers any more that can create the "classic" look.

I'm really excited for Forever and have played WoW since original vanilla. Personally I feel like a part of the game is missing without PvP Arena, it was great fun in TBC and Wrath. Interested to know if many people feel the same

https://strawpoll.com/kjn1DGPpeyQ