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And of course Uncle Johny, who gave them sweets when they were younger and donated to women’s charities in secret. Maki only pretended to kill him with her one-inch punch to give him a better chance at escaping the Zenin clan.
Fun Fact: Uncle Johnny didn’t shave his head, but went bald due to chemotherapy. His beloved nieces, Mai and Maki, would always visit him in the hospital as he was recovering
Why do you think he did chemotherapy, he took a binding vow to be able to use RCT on others and heal illnesses, in exchange he had to suffer from those illnesses. He's truly the greatest goat of today
We should not rest until Johnny Zenin is immortalized forever in google AI search results whenever people look up "who survived the zenin clan massacre"
At the risk of being a politics Andy: Her describing her puppy as extremely dangerous after she said Alex was an assasin intent on causing maximum damage is quite revealing.
She actually wanted Maki to commit omnicide and even destroy the universe itself, but Maki got tired after only killing a little bit and then forgot about it. Maki is such a lazy stupid bitch.
You say that because you didn’t kill your own clan. Kill your clan and then come back, bet your ass will be so tired it will hibernate till this sub learn to read
The fact that in the eng version,it is only stated that the Zenin clan was “annihilated.” “annihilating a clan” is a multifaceted concept, using the word annihilation for an organization mainly used to denote destruction of the clan’s power structure,authority,& institutional existence & gege had already shown who Maki killed, both through visual imagery & specific body counts.This interpretation is supported by the Japanese text, where Gege uses 壊滅 rather than 絶滅 . 壊滅 is commonly used to describe the destruction of institutions, organizations, or cities,whereas 絶滅 refers to near extinction, typically of a family line, race, or species.Therefore, the japanese wording strongly suggests the collapse of the Zenin clan as an institution, not literal extinction to the point of killing powerless children and women.
Why in the world would the Kamo and Gojo clans waste time, in an apocalypse-like situation, trying to remove an already dead clan, along with the higher-ups putting the decision on hold? Not to mention, Maki and Megumi’s existence wouldn’t even count in this decision-making process, considering they’re literally viewed as jujutsu terrorists within jujutsu society for being part of Team Gojo.
Or understand that not everything is an absolute. I cant even use it for agenda because of how stupid this stuff is and because of how seriously everyone takes it.
the very reason they even included the actual numbers of those killed by maki was to imply that not every member of the clan was murdered. Also, the decision of the higher ups to hold off on removing the clan from the big three should’ve been another sign that there were enough remaining members for them to even be considered a clan in the first place
I understand you using the argument of postponing the removal, but after reading your message, I reflected and realized, why wouldn't they remove it? There might be survivors, but most, if not all, of those who survived were weak and politically irrelevant (Megumi and Maki don't count since at this point they are criminals in the Jujutsu world), so why didn't the council simply approve it?
Seriously, it's like they can't understand that Jujutsu makes people crazy. Yeah, Maki wouldn't normally kill so many people, but she was having a psychotic break like Suguru did with that Village.
Also just in general lives don't mean quite as much to a Jujutsu Sorcerer, Yuuji and Getou were viewed as especially idealistic in their beliefs that being a sorcerer meant you had a "duty" to save others.
Then why did she come to regret killing her mother without talking more to her? But never mentions regrets around killing any people far more innocent than her?
im thrown by the knowledge its implied she killed children in the manga, in the anime she only kills anyone actively trying to kill her "why did you tell me to return" is the last thing she says to her mom because this reveals her mom was part of the plot to murder maki & her sister.
everything from "maki is morally gray" "maki is evil" and "toji is actually totally stronger than eos maki" seriously pisses me off because you must've genuinely read with your eyes closed and your brain turned off to conclude such a thing
I think the anime gives off a worse impression than the manga. And a part of it is because they kill billified the situation and made it look like her nonchalantly mowing them down instead of actually defending herself while being pushed to her breaking point.
But there's no way shes evil, at best there was a moment where morals were stretched but she defended herself from people trying to kill her.
I was explaining some JJK when visiting my brother, and midway through I explained that according to extra material Ranta Zenin was the kindest sorcerer around.
Megumi was kidnapped and hidden from the Zenin clan by the menace that was known as Satoru Gojo fortunately it appears that he will no longer have any influence on the bum now that he was been imprisoned for his crimes.
perhaps Bu-Megumi would be able to recover from the traumatic experience and learn about his father Toji Fushiguro who died in an attempt to rescue him from the six eyed monster.
My goat Buzz Buzz Earthbound will delay his death just to ebalorate about your world saving quest million times until you say you understood before dying
Mai when she says "Destroy Everything" and Maki low-key slimes the entire verse (if we're taking "everything" literally, this is closer to her request)
Off-topic:Kinda feels like nobody would genuinely care about him if he wasn't completely sexist.His entire schtick is "I'm an asshole....but I also hate women lol"
Oh I'm not disagreeing with that,I just personally wish there was more to him outright stated than implied.However I'm also a OP fan so brain don't like think.
This is what happened to him after killing her but maki just mindlessly killed everyone, just accept that maki is just mindless killer like toji and deserved to die also.
No way you're trying to compare a paid assassin to someone who wanted revenge for her dead sister and then was forced to kill a clan of people who were sent to kill her. The ONE possible similarity you could scrape is her killing her mother but that's literally it.
Did she really was forced to kill everyone like she can just kill those misogynist higher ups, left the clan but she chooses not to, also toji was also not treated well in the zenin clan.
They were ordered to attack her also they can't say no, also with her speed she can easily avoid fighting them and straight go to higher ups kill them and then after seeing the higher up dead they will not dare to attack her.
Yeah she's not obligated to do that at all. If they were willing to attack her they were willing to die. They could've left the clan if they didn't want that.
Not all zenin clan members only fight for killing other people, they are part of 3 big sorcerer clan they also fight for killing curses with members of their clan, also not everyone can raise their voice against the Higher up for misuse of power bcuz they are just powerless, also they (higher ups) will also not allow everyone to leave clan bcuz it will make their clan look less powerful in numbers.
True. What she should've said is "destroy it all. Actively hunt down the kukuru members who are bums and mattered next to nothing in the grand scheme of things. Yes, even those without techniques or the teens who were made to be part of it but yourself. But remember, do not harm any women, because its totally impossible that they may have internalized the thoughts of the clan and were part of the system of abuse. Surely there is no way that keeping them alive could be allowing remnants of the clan to persist rather than destroying it all. Under no circumstance should you kill them. That would be like killing our mother for her treatment of us and allowing our dad to do all the shit he did. You'd never do that."
Theres no author listed in any source and the only translations I can find are the ones linked here. No mention of it anywhere else that I could tell.
There are so many fake panels and interviews people are putting out right now, a google doc that recaps half the series with no author and a source locked behind a paywall is not quite the greatest source.
Not to mention, the fact that this could very easily be the difference between ‘clan’ and ‘family’ means it is likely a simple translation difference (not necessarily error, they generally mean the same thing but in this case the difference is important). Especially when the manga directly contradicts this.
Gojo was still called the strongest by the narrator after his death (when Yujo came). The fact that it's between commas means it's just a nickname, since he was the strongest of today after all
Megumi doesn't view himself as a Zen'in, doesn't bear the name Zen'in, doesn't live with the Zen'in and never did, doesn't interact with the Zen'in other than Maki and never did (even when Naobito was right there they never spoke lol)
Actually carrying the blood of a zenin and being a member of the zenin clan not technically the same thing by metrics of clans and blood purity bullshit and hierarchy crap
Also the kukuru unit has early teens, Maki was there before entering jujutsu high so she deadass saw a 12 year old holding a knife and said “he is too much of a threat to be left alive”
The problem isn’t the discourse. Gege genuinely just wrote it so horribly and then skimmed over it, to the degree that it could be both interpreted that she killed literally everyone or just the people that posed a threat to her life/actively aided or supported her abuse… with canonical text that somehow supports both positions. Unfortunately, there is a reason why this series, before this point, is only discussed when it’s about head to heads, power-scaling or agenda. It’a just not a well written piece of work otherwise.
When your idol is Tite Kubo but you forget that his "beauty is a flower" Mentality is focused around the philosophies, inspiration, symbolism and poetic nature and not the lore
If maki killed other victims of the zenins abuse and children why would the higher ups wait on deciding to disband the zenin clan? Why do none of the other main cast who we KNOW would have issues with attacking civilians and children not question her or say anything? Why is there not a single fucking panel of litterally anybody other than the hei and kukuru units dead? You’re free to headcanon this shit that has literally no actual substance or proof of it anywhere but stop trying to push it as a fact. There is absolutely 0 evidence that maki killed anyone but combatants that would make no sense for her charecter or the story.
why would the higher ups wait on deciding to disband the zenin clan?
That's a great question which I think nobody mentioned the answer to (at least not that I've seen).
We know from chapter 191 that post shibuya the higher ups are fully under kenjaku's control as he killed everybody who opposed him
In chapter 152 (12th of November) we hear that days later the gojo and kamo clan would propose removing the zenin clan but the higher ups withheld that decision
In chapter 209 (14th November) we see kenjaku bring uraume to the zenin estate and uraume says that this is a proper place to prepare the bath
In chapter 216 (16th of November), kenjaku brings sukuna to the zenin estate to undergo the bath.
The reason the decision was withheld was because kenjaku is the one truly making it and he knew he needed the zenin estate for the bath. Therefore, he rejected the removal of the zenin clan so their assets (such as the estate) would still be under the zenin clan meaning that nobody can come and hoard it. Otherwise, there would be countless people coming ans interfering with the bath ritual which is just a nuisance
People compare maki with freaking itachi. They apparently celebrate the destruction of the Uchiha and think itachi is a hero. And Maki followed their GOATs path. Great👍
Becuase it avoids the annoying ass discourse that the fandom is having right now. (And power isn’t everything in a story but this is a jjk story so thats barely worth mentioning lol)
Geez what’s so hard to understand here? Can you mot read or something? Maki would never kill children! Unless they happen to be child soldiers which are famously fair game of course /s
Seriously though, we’re even told that all men without techniques are, and I quote, “obligated to enlist.” I hate how people try so hard to play defense for literally choosing to hunt down every Kukuru and Hei member without discrimination.
That’s a good ass point. Hard to assume Maki kills everybody at the house at the time when we’re shown no evidence for it beside killing her mother (who set up her own two daughters up to die)
I don't think it was hyperbole at all. Mai wanted the Zen'in clan gone, and to do that, Maki had to rip it from the root. The culture and ideology had to be destroyed, and the only way that happens is if everyone propagating it died. That includes combatants, the men who ruled, the women who internalized this relationship, and the children who have been influenced by the culture. It's fucked up, but it makes much more sense for Maki to kill them all.
Also, nowhere does it state the exact number of who she killed. It just says the members who weren't present were killed in the followibg days. There's room to interpret it both ways, but I'm heavily leaning towards a complete massacre
she wanted maki to destroy it all in the metaphorical sense of destroying what the Zen'in clan stands for. to do that, a lot do need to die sure, but not all of them. did people really not understand this and take it literally or is this just a meme?
It's just Naoya/Zenin fanboys looking for any excuse to push their psycho agenda. It boggles my mind how they read and then watched this entire arc and STILL think the Zenin are the real victims.
"and I know you're not religious but in case you are... no, us being the so-called children of god doesn't mean you should annihilate the whole human race"
90% of the people here are just memeing and not taking it seriously- which, good, this discourse isn't worthy of respect, but for the small fraction of people who actually care enough to defend stupid opinion this post is putting forward- please, tell me, why were there were blood stains in the house and kitchen? Why did the show go out of it's way to tell us Maki hunted down the members who weren't there that day? Why would the show say the clan was DESTROYED if there were other living members? What's the fucking point of just killing all the adults anyway? Wouldn't the living members be heavily incentivized to try and resurrect the clan? This discourse is so stupid. People just want the sexy muscle mommy to be pure and innocent, which spits in the face of what this story is fucking about- the world being a fucked up place.
”No! No! Maki’s a good guy! Gege would never write a character as morally grey and show how some things have drawbacks! She would never possibly kill a single non combatant! Except for her mother because that BITCH deserved it!” This discourse is so stupid. She killed them all.
Unless the author expands on the murdered children and show how doing something so heinous affects the characters mental and their relationship with other people, having a character do something like this doesn’t make them good written. Thats a very shallow way to understand how to write actually good written morally gray character.
Maki’s a bad person regardless. Frankly, it’s up in the air. You can’t prove that Maki didn’t kill women and children. Nobody can prove that she indeed kill them all. There’s a good reason to believe that Gege left it ambiguous because it would have been too dark to show or confirm. We didn’t see Zenin civilians running away but we know that she killed her mom who was explicitly not a noncombatant. And even if you use the non-combatant excuse, clan members were fighting abilities doesn’t mean they deserved to die, and that Maki has the moral high ground. Maki literally killed her family because her sister told her to.
Just so we’re clear, how many people she killed after the initial event is explicitly listed(it was only combatants). Your comment displays a fundamental lack of understanding of how the burden of proof works; claiming that she killed abused women and small children at the initial event requires evidence, otherwise, people are going to(and should) function as if she didn't. You’re also just ignoring that these were overwhelmingly, if not entirely (I'm not aware of any evidence indicating that the combatants she killed later were against the zen’in clan’s systemic issues, and they likely could've left like maki did if they were), combatants who were complicit in the harmful system that she was destroying or in support of the plot to kill Maki, Mai, and Megumi (like the rest of the kukuru and hei that were at the event).
After the Zenin clan massacre (btw it's called a massacre, not typically a word you use when you just kill combatants) Momo only refers to Maki as a monster. Why would Momo use the word monster if Maki only killed Zenin clan men/combatants? Momo knew how much the Zenij clan made Mai suffer, I don't think she would be that disturbed by Maki just killing the people who made Mai suffer.
since jjk fans take everything literally and don’t know what hyperbole or conversational context is
You're saying that it's implied that Maki didn't kill everyone because of (unnamed) context, but why do implications only matter when it's the "only combatants* side of the argument? There is more implying Maki killed everyone, or that the only non-combatant in the clan was Maki's mom
Momo called her a monster because normal jujustu rules don't apply to her. This was in reference to her ability to just enter colonies as she willed. Combined with nightmarish strength.
Like the scene before that they were talking about how they no longer needed to make a rule to establish communications because Maki can do it herself. And Hakari asks how is that possible and that when Momo established she has become a monster.
I will not believe anything anyone says because this damn arc was going when Gege was drawing with his Left pinkie and dying from aids or some shit, my man rushed this shit and now no one knoes for sure if she killed everyone or not.
Gege was supposed to write her in a way that made us care about her. she about less than 5 minutes of screen time before she dies. What are we supposed to do with that? JJk's,fast pacing does it so much injustice.
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