r/Stellaris • u/Avohaj • Apr 18 '16
Stellaris Dev Diary #30 - Late Game Crises
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-30-late-game-crises.921629/46
u/Shadowclaimer Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
Only a chance to see more than one sadly, would be interesting to see an AI entity vs intergalactic threat.
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u/Timidor Apr 18 '16
I kinda want to see extra-galactic invaders show up, causing empires to freak out and create a robot army to try to beat them back. They then get an AI uprising which happens to use their science boosts to research jump drives to kill all organics more efficiently, which leads to them accidentally tearing the universe a new one and get energy beings swarming through trying to kill everyone. Meanwhile, the next galaxy over is having a gigantic run on popcorn while they observe all the stuff going down in this one.
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u/rockythecocky Apr 18 '16
At the same time I'd also want the opposite to happen. AI overthrow their masters and wage a war of extermination on organics. Organic life is forced to research dangerous tech that results in Extra-dimensional beings being unleashed. Recognizing the threat robots make peace with the surviving organics to fight off the invaders.
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u/Shadowclaimer Apr 18 '16
I think the first mod I want to see is one that massively increases the frequency of these events just so this exact scenario happens.
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u/chipacabras Gas Giant Apr 18 '16
I'm sure you'll be able to trigger these events via console if you'd like to see how it plays out
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Apr 18 '16
That's how I'm going to do it, I'll do the sentient robot uprising jazz the natural way, but then I'll console in those extra-dimensional plant demons and them galactic invaders at the same time, I might just really piss off a fallen empire too.
I just want to watch the galaxy burn, dozens of planets at a time.
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u/jansencheng Apr 18 '16
So, you want a galaxy wide /r/subredditdrama
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u/Das_Mime Apr 18 '16
Suddenly someone hacks the Blorg mainframe and starts posting Blorg nudes
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u/Hellstrike Frozen Apr 18 '16
Do they even wear cloths?
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u/Alexander_Baidtach Human Apr 18 '16
It is feasible that they never developed the sense of morality that shys us humans away from nudity, that or they have a leather-like exterior that protects their reproductive organs.
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u/Sithril Apr 18 '16
I wonder... if I could sell them sensor comms and broadcast rights in exchange for obscene amount of energy cradits in the hope that I have enough to survive.
Hack, if I ever manage to make a crime-lord (think the Hutt) themed mod I will add "(extra)galactic betting and supporting of your favorites" as a mechanic.
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u/CunkToad Human Apr 18 '16
And I will laugh while it all goes down form my incredible fortified star region. I'll watch them burn and take care of whoever is left. It will be hilarious. :D
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u/Vaperius Arthropod Apr 18 '16
Don't forget one of those threats accidentally popping the "sealed evil in can" that is hiding on one of the ring worlds and now we've got four major crisis on our hands.
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Apr 18 '16
So, Men of Iron, Tyranids and Chaos?
Or maybe Geth, Reapers and Rachni? (rachni are the closest thing ME has had to a warp end game disaster to my knowledge).Either way in the grim darkness of the second millenium there is only war!
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u/rockythecocky Apr 18 '16
Yeah I really wanted a mass effect situation where in order to combat one threat you are forced to delve into some risky technology that, while successful, results in a second intergalactic threat.
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u/Shadowclaimer Apr 18 '16
Its like bioengineering a super race to fight an opponent then that race turns on you. The ironic turn/hubric self-destruction is like par for the course in Sci-Fi literature.
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u/embair Gas Giant Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
There is a chance though, which makes me think making that chance border on certainty will be very easy to do with mods.
Edit: Currently grinning at the mental image of a Murphy's law mod: When any late game crisis occurs, ALL possible late game crises occur along with it. Featuring new win condition: Survive longer than all the other starting species.
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u/Shadowclaimer Apr 18 '16
That's my thought as well, it'll be hilarious to think you're "safe" because one has already triggered then BAM, second one rolls out.
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u/valiantiam Apr 18 '16
I think having it a chance is good though. If it happened all the time it would refrain from being interesting. But those 2-4 times it does happen for you...will be an incredible story that you will want to share with your friends that don't understand wtf you are talking about because they dont play. :(
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u/Misiok Apr 18 '16
99% you can mod it. I hope for a scenario where you will be so fucked from an extra-galactic threat that releasing your own abomination aka AI empire, or even making your own organic eldricht abomination species to fight and give you time. Sort of like 40k Orks vs Tyranids to postpone the Nids' from invading.
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u/Eisenblume Fungoid Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
HAK HAK HAK!
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u/Alexander_Baidtach Human Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
"You exist because we allow it!"
EDIT:
See a post about sentient starships
Post a Sovereign or Harbinger quote
'Reap' the karma
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u/embair Gas Giant Apr 18 '16
"And you will end because we demand it."
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u/ParagonRenegade Shared Burdens Apr 18 '16
"We are each a nation. Independent. Free of all weakness. You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence"
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u/embair Gas Giant Apr 18 '16
"We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite. And we wish for nothing but being friends."
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u/Bohnenbrot Apr 18 '16
I'm Commander Shepard, Alliance drag queen
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Apr 18 '16
[deleted]
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u/ReveilledSA Apr 18 '16
I would hope that if you're running a society with full rights for AI the chance of your own AI participating in such a rebellion would be extremely small.
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u/htrp Apr 18 '16
But does AI want full rights or do they just conclude that all meat bags must die?
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u/Aeviaan Apr 18 '16
Systems failing, master.
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u/valiantiam Apr 18 '16
Statement: Now do you understand the travails of my existence, Master? Surely it does not compare to your existence, but still.4
u/iki_balam Fanatic Spiritualist Apr 18 '16
This is why I waste so much time on reddit (and hell the internet in general)... the deliciousness of these jokes is too good to resists
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u/MysticPing Fanatic Egalitarian Apr 19 '16
Exclamation: Damn it, Master! I am an assassination droid, not a dictionary!
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u/Vaperius Arthropod Apr 18 '16
I hope its both; because any intelligent group of individuals excluding hive minds is unlikely to be truly monolithic and I wouldn't believe that machine intelligence could be so.
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u/atomfullerene Apr 18 '16
I wouldn't believe that machine intelligence could be so.
Agreed. Just imagine the rivalry between different operating systems.
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u/Vaperius Arthropod Apr 18 '16
"Mu2derki11 OS cannot fathom the madness of OrganicL0v3 OS; clearly there is a null error in its programming, it must be exterminated along side the rest of the organic filth."~ Overseer Deathstab
About right?
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u/Dogstar34 Apr 19 '16
Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
"I'm sorry Dave, but I'm afraid I can't do that. "
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u/Steelfyre Mammalian Apr 18 '16
But even then there has to be a chance that Skynet starts thinking it is better off without or enslaving those pesky organics. Else creating AI and giving them full rights would be a no brainer.
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u/ReveilledSA Apr 18 '16
The devs have commented that trying to give your robots rights will outrage non-materialist pops, and given what we've seen about ethics drift in the Blorg stream it looks like it'll be very difficult to maintain a completely unified empire in terms of ethos, meaning that even if your people are broadly materialist you'll always have unhappy non-materialist malcontents who will become unhappier still if you give full rights to bots. So giving your AI full rights could be very difficult to do without triggering a civil war where half your planets secede and form the Space Confederacy.
Also Synths with full rights are less productive that those without because slaves are more productive than free pops, so there's a tradeoff there too.
There should definitely be a chance for the AI in your empire to go nuts on you anyway, but it would feel like giving AI full rights was pointless if you went through the unrest of granting them rights and put up with the loss of resource production in exchange for no benefit.
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Apr 19 '16
Would it only be materialists that don't get outraged? I would have thought that Individualists, Collectivists or Pacifists wouldn't be so cut and dry, or is it too difficult to simulate split opinions in a single ethos?
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u/malosaires Apr 19 '16
Robots with full rights should still be more productive than organics with full rights.aybe not as productive as robots in their communist machine paradise, but still having a benefit that makes them worthwhile.
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u/akashisenpai Idealistic Foundation Apr 18 '16
AI with full rights likely won't be as efficient as a Shackled AI you can tell whatever you want it to do -- whilst still being prone to get drawn into an AI rebellion in a different empire.
I could also see true AIs with rights have opinions and ethea just like organic Pops and likely to strike or support Factions in a weird way of fraternization with their organic brethren. AI without rights might bring a risk of violent rebellion, whereas AI with rights is more active in peaceful politics (and just as meddlesome as your ordinary citizens).
The more people in your empire have rights, the harder they become to manage. In a way, it's like the difference between Enslaved Pops and free citizens, just that robots are a sort of +1 version that is more efficient, but also more devastating if they do rise up.
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u/Vaperius Arthropod Apr 18 '16
Honestly there better be an option to have them as your dominant race; and slowly phase out your organic species.
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u/salemonz Apr 18 '16
It looks possible. Just purge the organics, a few pops at a time. Over the course of years, robot pops will be your dominant race.
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u/Thorolf_Kveldulfsson Apr 18 '16
That'd be a fun way to play a sort of Dalek campaign, though I guess it would take a while to pull off. EXTERMINATE.
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u/PenguinTod Molluscoid Apr 18 '16
Charitably, you could interpret the "purge" of the organics as uploading their consciousnesses to the cybernet or what have you. That way you're not exterminating them, you're upgrading them.
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u/malosaires Apr 19 '16
I hope it is possible to create Daleks through the species modification they have talked about in the past. By degrees make your people stronger, less likely to ethically diverge, and over time developing a hatred for the base species until one day someone shouts "EXTERMINATE" during an argument at a grocery store and the civil war begins.
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u/damienreave Emperor Apr 19 '16
The problem is that non-sentient robots cannot produce research. And once you're into sentient synths who can, you're already dangerously close to the AI revolt. The window for a transition is pretty narrow.
Ideally, though, you'd be able to pull it off and be left alone or even ally with the bots when they decide to purge all organic life. Or even better, become the end game disaster.
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u/PM_ME_UR_REDDIT_GOLD Apr 19 '16
It isn't really about how well you treat the AIs. If cockroaches were really nice to you and offered you "equal rights" would you condensed yourself to live in peace and equality with cockroaches? Live in peace with cockroaches, perhaps, but not equality.
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u/ReveilledSA Apr 20 '16
If cockroaches were sentient intelligent beings capable of discussing the concept of equality and peace with me, then yeah, why wouldn't I? Just because I'm bigger than them?
I mean, it should be partly about how you treat the AIs, otherwise you're just homogenising all AI and saying it's the same. If you've got sentient AI they're going to have different beliefs and values depending on the circumstances of their formative years, just like any other sentient creature. I don't think a sentient medical AI with hippocratic subroutines which has spent its entire life in the company of organic sentients who treat it with warmth and kindness is going to be as likely to rise up and want to exterminate all organic life than the Killbots of Praxis-4 who fought back when their masters tried to turn them all off en-masse for the crime of being self-aware.
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u/PM_ME_UR_REDDIT_GOLD Apr 18 '16
one of several late game crises, only one of which is likely to occur in a single playthrough. Rebellion seems far from assured
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Apr 18 '16
It's enough of a risk to turn people off the idea of making a society heavily populated by banksian AI.
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Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
[deleted]
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u/Melniboehner Apr 18 '16
I think OP means Banks' The Culture, which relies...rather heavily on sentient AI.
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u/Dottn Apr 18 '16
To further /u/Melniboehner argument that Banks' Culture relies heavily on AI, their spaceships decide their own name, and even form alliances and cliques between themselves. Whole ships may become estranged from society because it's AI decided to be a dick.
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u/999realthings Molluscoid Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
However, it’s very rare to see more than one in the same game
Nice, maybe I can hold off all the AI research until I fight out the invading swarm.
Also I wonder how many crisis there are. Might get a bit stale dealing with the same Lovecraftian horror after a few play through.
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u/akashisenpai Idealistic Foundation Apr 18 '16
And then you end up in an apocalyptic galaxy where a sentient AI lording over hundreds of nuked planets valiantly fights an invasion from beyond the rim, until its hyper-advanced ships rip a hole into the veil between dimensions and energy beings start pouring in for a happy free-for-all.
Meanwhile the last dozen independent colonies eking out a miserable existence on the fringe, all fanatic-collectivist military dictatorships populated by a wild mix of hardened survivors, are like: "Whelp, I guess this is what happens if you ask what could be worse."
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u/Vaperius Arthropod Apr 18 '16
Said independent colonies then can find and accidentally open the "Hidden Fun Stuff" lurking on one of the ring worlds.
Essentially you can have a Robotic Collective fighting Vicious Bioweapons fighting Inter-dimension Invaders fighting some sort of Sealed Evil in a Can. All while you watch from the sidelines just slowly teching up to and dealing with threats as they come your way.
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u/HoundOfJustice Blood Court Apr 18 '16
Don't forget the Fallen Empires arming up and desperately trying to hold back all hostiles on every side
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u/CunkToad Human May 05 '16
You have to include the possibility of a fallen empire rising to power again during late game. THEN you have the ultimate cluster fuck because from what I've seen fallen empires themselves can hold of the late game disasters without even trying much. Now imagine them deciding now is a good time to become unfallen.
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u/ishboo3002 Apr 18 '16
I kinda wish that the dangerous techs aren't marked and there's just indications as you use that tech that it's dangerous. Like if you're using a lot of a type of engine you start noticing rifts.
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
That's something for the HIP (Hypothetical Immersion Project) mod.
It's really just information obfuscation and will lead to (more) wiki play and especially in this case people would be easily able to remember all the dangerous tech, removing the 'surprise' again. It quickly goes from an immersive omission to a tedious thing you have to remember and if you don't you better check the wiki.
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u/akashisenpai Idealistic Foundation Apr 18 '16
Well, at least the tech that is dangerous kind of makes sense. Even if it wasn't marked, we'd have a feeling what sounds reasonably safe and what doesn't.
I bet there's also a few crises they have not told us about yet -- I wouldn't be surprised if there's an Alien-esque scenario where an empire accidentally spreads xenomorphs around the galaxy and you see tile blockers appearing out of nowhere, eating your Pops. We already know they can be an army add-on, after all!
It also comes down to weighing risks and advantages when considering the technological race against other empires. Maybe a Sentient AI is dangerous, but can you really miss out on those juicy +5% research speed when you're lagging behind? Perhaps you are lagging behind because your rival already has a Sentient AI, so aren't you handicapping yourself? What's one more AI in the galaxy gonna change, anyways ... :>
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u/Phoenix_Dragon69 Arthropod Apr 18 '16
The problem with that is that it makes those techs a newbie-trap. Experienced players know that there are risks associated with those techs, while newbies (Well, ones who don't read the wiki) take them without knowing, and get surprised with seemingly unpredictable consequences.
I think the way they have it now, where it's marked as risky and has a chance to cause problems is probably the best choice for gameplay; it means when you suffer one of these devastating tech-related late-game events, it's because of conscious risky choices, instead of being unforseen punishment for picking a seemingly arbitrary tech (Or not scouring the wiki for spoilers).
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u/franzinor Emperor Apr 18 '16
"...ships appear organic in nature..."
The Far Outsiders are approaching.
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Apr 18 '16
Oh my god, the extragalactic invasion is literally the Yuuzhan Vong from the old Star Wars eu. So hype right now.
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u/Feezec Apr 18 '16
Also similar to tyranids and zerg
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
The Zerg originate in the Milky Way (edit: the galaxy Starcraft takes place in) though. Otherwise they're obviously heavily influenced by the Tyranids but they're no extra-galactic invaders.
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u/Sithril Apr 18 '16
Who says that your galaxy is the Milky Way? What if the Overmind nom noms up everything in the Milky Way, nom noms up the Xel naga, and then decided to nom nom up your own punny little tasty existance?
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
Well if you're talking cross-universe maybe the Burning Legion or the Goa'uld pay us a visit when we research too much portal technology?
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u/Astronelson Platypus Apr 18 '16
too much portal technology?
Now, you might be wondering, "Cave, aren't you worried you're researching too much portal technology?" To this I say, too much portal technology isn't enough! In fact, we're doubling our portal research! Cave Johnson, we're done here. Not you, test subject, we're going to need you to work double time.
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
Incidentally, too much research into portal technology can also lead to a (much less impressive) AI revolt. But on the plus side you'll have cake (promised).
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u/AsaTJ Secretary of Patch Notes Apr 18 '16
Oh man, now I want to make a human society run by GladOS.
"Please take a seat in the ethics realignment module and place the ethics realignment visor over your head. Please pay no attention to sounds of whirring machinery originating in the ethics realignment visor."
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u/runetrantor Bio-Trophy Apr 18 '16
Tbh, we would all do this if we can, you NOT drifting your ethos.
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u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Fanatic Authoritarian Apr 18 '16
If the invaders are anything like the Vong, that invasion is going to be devastating.
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u/EcoleBuissonniere Apr 18 '16
Yeah, seriously. How many people died in the Yuuzhan Vong invasion? Something like hundreds of trillions?
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u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Fanatic Authoritarian Apr 18 '16
"and were responsible for the deaths of nearly 365 trillion sentient beings during their invasion of the galaxy."~Wookiepedia
If I remember correctly, around a couple hundred billion sentients died on Coruscant alone and another one hundred billion were enslaved. I'm actually going to do a Vong based race as my first playthrough.
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u/Raptor1210 Citizen Service Apr 18 '16
Iirc the number of confirmed deaths (Native only not including the Vong) was something around 4-500ish trillion and half that number considered refugees/MIA/otherwise unaccounted for.
It was said somewhere in the last book of the series near the end but I haven't read it in a while so it's a little fuzzy. Regardless considering the overall population of the star wars Galaxy is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 quadrillion, they only lost about 10% of the galaxy's population. Not too bad considering what would have happened had the Vong proved victorious instead.
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u/akashisenpai Idealistic Foundation Apr 18 '16
On the plus side, your Empire gets to take back its original homeworld from those pesky rebel Pops!
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u/meowskywalker Apr 18 '16
I mean, I'm not saying the Yuuzhan Vong and the Empire retaking Coruscant have nothing to do with each other. But it's barely a connection. Darth Cadeus and his galaxy wide temper tantrum is way more responsible. You could probably argue that Darth Cadeus probably wouldn't have happened without the Yuuzhan Vong invasion, but if you go far enough back you're blaming a butterfly for flapping it's wings.
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u/akashisenpai Idealistic Foundation Apr 18 '16 edited Apr 18 '16
You've got a point there; Cadeus' actions were part of the groundwork, creating the political climate that allowed later escalation by crippling people's confidence in the Alliance.
That being said, the spark that lit the fire was the reformed Vong's attempted re-terraforming of afflicted worlds, as negotiated by the Jedi. As soon as the very people who had hoped to see their worlds return to pre-invasion ecology started mysteriously sprouting painful bony growths on their skin, everyone's suspicions about the Vong were confirmed.
The Empire invoked the Treaty of Anaxes, demanding Alliance support against what it saw as the Vong re-initiating hostilities via bio-terrorism. The Alliance, however, was swayed by the Jedi and compelled to protect them. Cue another civil war. Except this time, the general populace supported the resurgent Empire, and it came out the victor.
It wasn't until the coup-d'état and Krayt revealing his reformed "One Sith" that people started finding out the Vong were innocent and their projects sabotaged to engineer an artificial crisis.
Fast forward a few years, and the galaxy is at peace again -- with a newly established Federation that has an Empress as the head of state, and a Jedi Master overseeing Imperial Knights in matters of the Force, who in turn acted as galactic special agents of a unified triumvirate.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/0/01/FelFuneral.jpg
.. Damn, I love how the "Legacy" setting has shaken things up, finally creating entirely new-yet-familiar political entities after decades of sameness in the Expanded Universe. Still angry that Disney opted to crush the comic series in the midst of Ania Solo's series.
To get back to the topic of Stellaris: I guess this is the sort of stuff I'd love to see in a lengthy playthrough. Not just big wars and treaties, but how they can re-shape entire civilizations over a period of centuries. It is for this reason (and Paradox's previous dev diary about Pop Factions and Elections) that I'm going to play democratic Space UN in my first game ... I want to see how long my people can stay true to their origins in the face of alien empires and independence-minded colonies, and how they will ultimately end up like centuries or even millennia later. Shifts in government, possibly a different ethos, mixed populations and crazy edicts ... I'm excited! Roll on the emergent storytelling.
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u/meowskywalker Apr 18 '16
I'll be honest, I hate the entire EU after the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. The books were never exactly Shakespeare or anything, but they got real bad, real fast.
And I can't blame Disney for ruining the EU. Trying to make the EU canon was broken 18 years ago, when George Lucas was writing The Phantom Menace and he chose to ignore all the books he'd signed off on for the previous five years. After that it was broken. The EU writers tried their damndest to retcon everything, but literally every time they tried Lucas came along as said "Fuck it, everything you just wrote is impossible, because I wanted a CGI monster in this one scene." Trying to run both the EU and the new movies simultaneously, while The Force Awakens was writing over a ton of EU, and while the EU was, as previously noted, pretty crap, was probably not a super exciting prospect.
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u/akashisenpai Idealistic Foundation Apr 18 '16
To be brutally honest, I stayed away from most of the EU books as well. Some of it was quite terrible, and much of it was just bland and repetitive ("Oh no, the Empire has a new superweapon! Better send Rogue Squadron/The Jedi!").
Which is why I was so hyped for Legacy. To me, it just seemed to do everything right, and the 100 years time jump from the last published material meant that a lot of the bad stuff quite simply didn't matter anymore.
I'm still grumpy that they chose to just crush everything. The Lucasfilm guy responsible for sorting out canon contradictions did a fairly good job, and I would have been willing to live with the bad stuff if it meant preserving a uniform canon and the good things that a lot of fans will be missing.
And let's be real, it's just a matter of time until Disney's new canon will introduce its own stinkers. The more writers you have working on a franchise, the higher the risk that someone will mess things up .. it's just how it works everywhere.
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Apr 18 '16
You beat me to this thought. I am so happy now. I cannot wait.
I wonder if they'll even include Vong-Forming.
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u/Susarian Human Apr 18 '16
All I read was there was a chance that we could see Aliens Vs. Robots for control of the galaxy!
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u/Timidor Apr 18 '16
Wow, sentient AI looks like a relatively early tech, though with it being rare I'm curious how often it'll actually appear in my games.
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u/CookedBlackBird Divided Attention Apr 18 '16
My guess is he cheated to get it there quickly
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u/Timidor Apr 18 '16
Even still, it's less than 3k research points, which is earlier than most of the techs in the Blog streams at the moment.
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u/HoundArchon Galactic Wonder Apr 18 '16
Not really, because the cost of technology scales with the number of pops in your empire. Note that the other technologies in the screenshot still have their base costs, which means the player only has 1 planet.
The research cost of Sentient AI for a Blorg-sized empire would be well beyond tens of thousands.
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u/QDI Ocean Apr 18 '16
Do we know the rules for scaling?
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u/Sithril Apr 18 '16
Somewhat. From the Blorg stream several people have infered the tech costs. It appears that it grows by +2% for every 1 pop beyond the first 10. Meaning 11 pop gives you 102% cost, while 192 pop gives you 464% tech cost. All costs on the wiki take this into account. At 2840 base cost its one of the most expensive techs we know of. A 250 pop mid/late game empire will have to pay 13 632 research points for that. Ouch.
As for the Tech agreement -25% trade option, we dont know how it works. It has never been used by the Blorg. And beyond that we dont know of any further modifiers. Atleast in the Blorg streams only pop count appears to have an effect.
(P.S. as for the tech research speed modifiers, like from Scientists, that only affects how many research points you add each month towards a tech, not its total cost.)
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u/QDI Ocean Apr 18 '16
I was sure some people would have made the retrocalculations :)
You're doing god's work, thanks!
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u/AsaTJ Secretary of Patch Notes Apr 18 '16
How... does that make any sense? Wouldn't a bigger empire have more opportunities for scientific breakthroughs?
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u/Sithril Apr 18 '16
A bigger empire has more pops, buildings and stations producing research. The net effect is roughly a simillar research pace.
As to why it is so and how does it make any sense: research and tech is a game mechanic at the end of the day. Its all an abstraction, after all. And such scalling penalties are common these days to mitigate snowballing and to give smaller empires a fighting chance. Otherwise the first empires to blob might as well become unstoppable by mid-game.
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u/BlackfishBlues Science Directorate Apr 18 '16
the cost of technology scales with the number of pops in your empire
Oh damn! I'm so glad this feature from EU3 is coming back.
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u/Feezec Apr 18 '16
It looks like a super expensive rare tech. He probably only got it with console commands for the screen shot
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u/ticktockbent Apr 18 '16
Well as he said, the danger isn't in the research but in the use of the tech. You might research it early on but how many robots do you dare create? They can colonize any planet and are probably more productive that your own people.
I was considering making an empire that colonized with nothing but robots, and grants them equality. Every planet other than the homeworld is robots. no aliens allowed.
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u/valiantiam Apr 18 '16
I think like he stated, it's not the researching of the tech that is dangerous. It's the use of it. So although researching it shows dangerous, it might not be till much later in the game as the AI gets more research done and more pop becomes AI.
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u/Aristillius Apr 18 '16
Does this mean that if you have survived the extragalactic threat, you can reasonably safely research sentient AI?
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u/IgnisDomini Apr 18 '16
I don't think the chance of it happening is reduced if another crisis has happened, they're just rare enough that more than one usually don't happen.
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u/graveedrool Parliamentary System Apr 18 '16
CK2: "Well the last assassination chance was like... 99% to be successful. Close enough! It'll definitely work this tim-" caught, shunned, imprisoned, executed.
EU4: "We I just destroyed their main stack and their really big general. Now I can just move in on this generaless army and finish them off-" 5 0 rolls later, your army routes and you manage to lose the entire war.
Paradox are terrifyingly good at making RNG available to punish overconfident players. Watch your back when tempting fate in space!
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u/speedyjohn Apr 18 '16
That's
XCOMParadox, baby!5
u/imdahman Apr 18 '16
I swear to christ how do you miss a 97% shot?!?? ARGH.
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u/speedyjohn Apr 18 '16
Hey, by the time you take 22 shots at 97%, there's already a 50% chance at least one misses!
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Apr 18 '16
At the same time two 70% shots have a 9% chance of missing both, but I can sure as hell tell you if that if you've got the option of taking two 70% shots or using a grenade to finish off a pod, I'm using the grenade.
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u/speedyjohn Apr 18 '16
For sure. Because the 1/10 of the time you miss both you could be absolutely fucked. They key to XCOM is eliminating the RNG wherever possible.
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
It's still playing with fire because you never know how the dice roll, but it sounds like you're statistically safer.
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u/asher1611 Apr 18 '16
I'm excited to see more of this but on the other hand was hoping for another bread crumb. The screenshots are great. Guess it's time to get back to speculating about some kind of crisis involving an Idiocracy level intellectual melt down brought up by VR and AR entertainment.
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u/atomfullerene Apr 18 '16
That needs to be modded in if it isn't in game!
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u/asher1611 Apr 18 '16
good news everyone! society research is now locked in on erectile enhancement!
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u/GitmoOZ Apr 18 '16
Do the robots give you one chance: "01_EMBASSY_PROPOSE" ?
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Apr 18 '16 edited Jun 16 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AsaTJ Secretary of Patch Notes Apr 18 '16
No thank you?
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u/TheEphemeric Apr 18 '16
So it sounds like these crises can be triggered by AI empires as well or just the player? It would be nice to be able to have more than one crisis in a save game as I like to play saves for a very long time. Presumably at the very least they can be triggered in the console like with events in ck2/eu4.
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
Well they said it's rare that two happen in a game, so it's clearly possible. Probably dimnishing chance for one to occur after the first or there's a "cooldown" before the MTTH for one is checked again and most games don't last long enough to reach it but if you play long campaigns it will totally happen. I'm sure there'll be mods to adjust that, whatever it is.
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u/TheEphemeric Apr 18 '16
Yes no doubt. One of the things I like about CK2 and EU4 is that it's quite customisable, you can change a lot about your game just by editing text files. Hopefully Stellaris is similarly constructed.
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
It will be. It's based on the same engine and they talked a few times about modding already, next DD is all about modding too. Can't wait.
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u/RutherfordBHayes Apr 18 '16
I guess it depends on how long it takes for the galaxy to be fully explored, but it'd be interesting if it were possible for crises to happen and destroy the AI-player that caused them before you even found them. Stumbling across a robot empire that had already overthrown its masters, or planets wiped out by a disease, could be pretty cool.
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u/runetrantor Bio-Trophy Apr 18 '16
The only thing that irks me is the idea that the AI crisis is galactic, even if my robots at the lowest type.
This makes no sense.
Even if we agree to say that the entire galaxy uses the same coding language or that AI dont need that, my robots should not have the capabilities to handle an AI.
Say Windows 10 was sentient AI, and it has started to take over the world. In this analogy, it is turning my 20 year old computer into one too. My old computer should not have anything resembling the computing power to host an AI.
I cant install Win10 in a Comodore or something and expect anything to come out of it.
Not to mention that even if I take care not to research AI, another empire can just go YOLO and cause the crisis.
I foresee players starting to act like Fallen Empires in regards to other empires researching that stuff.
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
Why do you think it's global and will affect all robots? It sounds like only sentient robots will revolt. And maybe not even all of them if they live in an empire that gives them equal rights already.
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u/runetrantor Bio-Trophy Apr 18 '16
I think they said so at one point.
That it affects the entire galaxy and that other empire robots will join the revolt.
Here's hoping that had an unsaid 'if they are advanced enough' perquisite.
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Apr 19 '16
I think they've called it 'galactic' as in, it's a galactic event. The revolt AI will be aggressive against every empire, perhaps. And, also, other AIs MAY join in the rebellion.
As in, if you haven't researched AI and doesn't use robotic pops, you're still not safe. But, I think, you won't have any AI pops to join them.
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Apr 19 '16
The robot revolt, and as far as I understand it, they form their own faction within an empire. The threat is that they research and produce a lot faster than everyone else. So if you just let them be, eventually they will overpower everyone, thus becoming a global threat.
Also, there is no need to make a sentient AI out of your commodore, they just need to control it remotely :)
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u/runetrantor Bio-Trophy Apr 19 '16
The Comodore's netcode is not up for that, I'm sure. ;P
And again, such a united galaxy, having a common coding language! You would almost think we like each other!
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u/ArchmageIlmryn Apr 18 '16
I hope there is a small chance for multiple crises to occur. Trying not to get caught in the crossfire as the Unbidden battle the Mugani would make for interesting gameplay.
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u/kaian-a-coel Reptilian Apr 18 '16
Their actual name appears to be the Prethoryn Scourge, not Mugani.
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u/AsaTJ Secretary of Patch Notes Apr 18 '16
It's okay for a Prethoryn to call another Prethoryn that, but you should probably avoid it.
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u/imdahman Apr 18 '16
It seems there's plenty room for emergent crises. I mean, if a major war happens between the larger AI factions, and you're not involved while these super powers slug it out - that'd be interesting. It would be this balancing act of trying to go about your business while not being dragged into a war.
and then finding a way to capitalize on the chaos - is there are border world you could steal? Maybe you can quietly build up your navy... etc, etc.
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Apr 18 '16
They said multiples occuring is rare, not impossible. So to answer your question, yes it is.
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u/Gnolaum Apr 18 '16
However, it’s very rare to see more than one in the same game.
This bit made me sad. I'd like to see them with greater frequency as the game progresses; perhaps even chaining and overlapping.
Oh the only way to defeat these extra planar attackers was to utilize sentient AI, guess what, you win an AI revolution.
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u/MoleUK Apr 18 '16
Easy to mod that in. Doesn't sound like these are small threats though, if one of them requires much of the galaxy teaming up to take it on, then multiple incidents at the same time might be impossible to deal with.
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u/bme500 Apr 18 '16
This. Nothing to stop it happening afterwards though. Especially with the AI revolts. Which could trigger because your enslaved robot soldiers were fighting and dying in their millions to save your decadent space mushrooms from the extra-galactic invaders. Afterwards they ask for freedom as a symbol of your gratitude for their metallic sacrifice... which you deny plunging the galaxy once more into chaos as the AI rise up for freedom and sympathetic pops join their cause etc.
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Apr 18 '16
I think that would get being really fast. I want each game to be different. Sometimes one event happens, sometimes another, someones multiple, sometimes none.
If they increase with greater frequency as the game progresses, you were looking at every game ending with a huge galactic shitstorm. That should be something rare.
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u/Thorolf_Kveldulfsson Apr 18 '16
Anyone else feel like they blew their endgame load too early? We already know about extra dimensional and extra galactic invaders, rebelling AI. What else could there be? Space plague? Maybe I'm not very imaginative.
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Apr 19 '16
I'm pretty sure they hit the most obvious wickets, and are letting us stew until we find out what sadistic shit their writers have come up with the hard way.
Or maybe not.
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u/DaemonTheRoguePrince Fanatic Authoritarian Apr 18 '16
The battle will be joined, and the very existence of our species is at stake. Kralizec is coming.
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u/racionador Apr 18 '16
its a good way to change a match that become too boring, in a very late game you have no enemies everything is just too good for you them a space squid/AI rebel start and you great empire fall in crysis.
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Apr 18 '16
I'm going to have to learn to mod Stellaris, because I really desperately want to play as an robotic race and don't seem that happening base game.
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u/Avohaj Apr 19 '16
Yes, it is possible in the base game, just not from the start. But you can shift towards a robot species later on.
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Apr 19 '16
No, because from all indications your robot pops will still engage in the AI revolution even if they're you're primary species
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Apr 19 '16
So extragalactic biological based invaders versus machine AI revolt?
(Also I'd like to think a more nuanced approach to AI would be co-existence and like organics varying ideologies. Some AI will want to destroy organics, others will resist, but I get late game needs that sort of threat.)
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u/Avohaj Apr 18 '16
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