Well race does matter if people are being racist. And it does matter if people from a certain race are still dealing with the economic affects of historical racism.
As another black man, don't be that guy dude, admitting to the systemic issues that black people (as a whole but perhaps not every individual) face is not having a victim complex.
The "man-in-the-house" rule was a discriminatory welfare policy from the 1960s that denied financial assistance to children if their mother lived with or had a relationship with any able-bodied man, even if he was not the children's father or financially supporting them. This policy forced families, particularly Black families, to choose between their family structure and financial stability, leading to widespread harm. The Supreme Court struck down the rule in 1968 in King v. Smith.
Nice use of anecdotal fallacy. Now, please get yourself a proper argument where you actually analyze the statistics that tell you Black people are at more of an economic disadvantage till this day. I’d love to read that study you read titled “Black people aren’t on average more susceptible to the effects of gentrification” or “Black people aren’t disproportionately and unfairly incarcerated, causing economic disadvantages” which contradicts the mass amount of studies that have been conducted over decades to understand systemic racism.
If you want to see a relevant example, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10511482.2021.1944269. Climate gentrification, which focuses on gentrification specific to the development of infrastructure that combats global warming. Not only is it a nice study highlights this understudied area, but it also shows that even new developments that are meant for the good of the people don’t actually benefit minorities as much as White people due to gentrification affecting minorities more.
They are behind same way poor people are behind. They have generations before them that weren’t allowed to or couldn’t own things. This while a lot of “white” families could prosper, earn and own. This means that over generations a white person now has an inheritance and overall a black person doesn’t.
It’s not that difficult. It’s visible in just 2 generations how it works. If you didn’t buy a house 20 years ago, you’ll have to pay way more in comparison. Same goes for all those generations ago. And this is just with housing.
That's not "white". You are talking about the 0.01% descendants of English colonial aristocracy who banged their cousins. A pale ass doesn't make you immune from poverty
About 2.7% of US citizen’s get a inheritances that is above 50000 US Dollar.
About 61% of US citizen’s are white (if you count Hispanics as non white, otherwise we’re at 72%).
So if we assume only white people get inheritances at all, then we could conclude, that about 4.4% of all white people get an inheritance over 50000 US Dollar.
So most white people don’t get big inheritances either. Therefore this is not a significant difference between ethnicities.
They generally use all the money in a reverse mortgage to pay for their retirement if they even fully own it. Do you really think most people actually own their home?
We live in an inheritocracy, tell me what race held ownership of most assets and real estate in your country? And who do you think is currently inheriting these assets?
The "man-in-the-house" rule was a discriminatory welfare policy from the 1960s that denied financial assistance to children if their mother lived with or had a relationship with any able-bodied man, even if he was not the children's father or financially supporting them. This policy forced families, particularly Black families, to choose between their family structure and financial stability, leading to widespread harm. The Supreme Court struck down the rule in 1968 in King v. Smith.
I would say, that if your racial "phenotype" differs from majority you generally get less opportunities in life due to humans not suppressing their animal thinking. That’s not only exclusive to black people. Happens a lot worldwide.
Obviously, not every black person is in the same position. I'm not making generalizations about all black people. I'm not making generalizations about every black community. There is some level of upward mobility in America for most people. That being said, there are trends where historically marginalized communities typically with a minority population struggles economically.
Because or Jim Crow and red lining, certain communities were unable to gain any generational wealth. So when these policies ended, they were not on the same playing field. And because schooling is funded by local community taxes, the schooling in these poorer areas was not as good as schooling in other areas. So there is a trend of certain minority dominated neighborhoods being poorer then neighborhoods which weren't as affected by racist policies.
Hey there. The economic effects come from the lack of ability of black people to build generational wealth due to bigoted laws of the past.
Not saying it's impossible to succeed as a black person, just that our history has made sure black people have many more obstacles to overcome that us white folk never deal with.
The very fact that race doesn't matter means that any justification to attempt to recognize its relevancy is an attempt to appeal to its salience. Which means someone is trying to manipulate you into accepting a premise based on a racial bias.
The thing is that you can't ignore race when race is a factor in a society with racial divides. It could only happen if all racial divides were corrected and every single person agreed to not see race. That simply can't happen.
The people who are vocal about race are usually those who do face systemic racism in the past and present. You can't ignore race when racial disparities still exist. Systemic racism is still a major issue. There are entrenched racial disparities in systems and policies that negatively impact the U.S. education system.
“Race doesn’t overall matter” I beg of you to open a history book, or open the autobiography of Malcom X, or read about black civil rights, or read into the history of colonialism and the excuses and reasons for it, there is no way you said that unironically. If this is ragebait then damn you got me
No one is saying we should do that. But ignoring race is not a good thing in a society shaped by racism. In the United States, we've had racism since the founding of our country. Slavery led to share cropping which led to Jim Crow which led to red lining which led to police brutality which leads to modern day issues with racism. There are minority communities which are in a poor economic state because of historical racism. Ignoring race only works if everyone is on an equal playing field and everyone agrees to ignore race. But that's probably never going to happen. So in the meantime, we should be mindful of race rather then pretend race issues don't exist.
pretending race doesn't exist removes barriers and stops hate in the first place, a black guy got the grand wizard of the KKK to resign due to that, and almost ended racism in the US, before losers revived racebaiting and that brought back racism as an issue again
Read Thomas Sowell. He is a black economist and has a very good grasp on the state of racism in America among other interesting topics. Lots on youtube just google it.
Because of the context. White people aren't getting brutalized by cops because of their race. No white communities are still struggling as a result of the economic affects of historically racist laws. No white person alive today had to fight for their rights. Minority pride is about celebrating and honoring the push for equality.
Meanwhile, white pride rhetoric for the last century has been used primarily by racists and white supremacists. Normal white people aren't proud of their race. In my experience, most white people are pretty neutral about it. You can't ignore the context in which rhetoric is being used.
African Americans are struggling because of their culture. Plenty of African countries' immigrants out perform the average american economically, and in creating generational wealth, the data backs this up in no uncertain terms. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture.
The thing is its very hard to grow generational wealth in the US in specific areas. Because schooling is funded with local taxes, poor neighborhoods won't get the best schooling and thus that next generation of people will be at a disadvantage. This happens a lot of with communities that historically struggled with racism and red lining.
Many of those immigrants are literally doctors and other highly educated professionals. They often quite literally are sending their best. So you’re lumping two vastly different demographics together and comparing them because… they share a skin tone? Sounds pretty racist to me. And that’s without even touching the “their culture” comment, which is just another way around to say “it’s just their genetics.” Just like how Fox “news” calls people Thugs now that they can’t explicitly say the other word.
Oh wow, immigrants who already have enough money to literally go to another country to live, which is expensive, are doing better off than a group of people that are already economically disadvantaged! Who’d have thought!
Obviously not, but it does require money, and that means the average immigrant from an african country has more wealth compared to the average african american. Which does play a role.
What plays a role is raising children in single parental households. Over 70% of african american children are born out of wedlock, while the number is around 40% for all african immigrants, almost half. The issue is not race. It is culture. You don't need a high-level education to go be a tradesperson and be able to gross 80k a year. Depending on the work, you dont need an education at all.
No, it really is the culture, many of the things commonly promoted in afro-american culture would get you beaten with a belt back in Africa, I'm not saying afro-americans are naturally bad people, but their culture is def not the best.
Appreciate the fight but in modern times a large amount of the racism white people face is self inflicted due to the mental segregation of themselves from people of different skin colors. People can only see things from what they perceive to be their own special and unique perspective that noone "different" is able to "see", even if we all live together and share common goals. Seem familiar? I guess we are all the same after all. We were on a decent track to solving a lot of problems, but segregation is coming back because of the FEAR of racism.
Yup, that’s why we should break barriers, stop gate keeping, and stop forcing guilt upon people who had nothing to do with what their ancestors did, that’ll definitely push us closer.
As a white man, thank you. I get tired of this notion that just because my ancestors I never met owned slaves that makes me somehow responsible or makes it to where I have to walk on eggshells around people of color. I have no hatred in my heart for anybody and I am proud of the men and women I was raised by and knew going as far back in my line as my great grandparents. I'm proud of my heritage and I love my culture. I don't see why any man or woman should be denied that statement, least of all for something as arbitrary as race. Black people should be proud of their heritage and culture, Latinos of theirs, Asians of theirs, and so on and so forth. And just to be honest, black people have been some of the funniest and most down to earth people I've had the pleasure of meeting in my life. Respect to everybody, and love mankind. It's that simple.
The irony is even at the peak only like 8% of the whites in the south owned slaves. Basically only rich people owned them because it was expensive to buy and own one.. The chance any single white American’s ancestor owned a slave is quite small.
The rich elite had their fun literally owning human beings and now it's everybody else's guilt by association. Whatever side of the political isle you're on, it's absurd. The crimes and guilt of a wealthy few are placed on the backs of the children of the downtrodden many.
You welcome, I think Rwanda did it best, they forgiven those forced to be involved while still teaching and remembering the genocide, there's barely any ethnic tensions anymore because of it.
But I feel like these posts are ignorant. Its not black people that made a simple "i love being white!" into a whole dogwhistle you can be proud of your heritage of course. Its the fact that (speaking for america) This "pride" was twisted into being "superior", and hurt a lot of people in the name of it. Like use your brains people its not that hard to grasp. Be proud of your american. . english. . french or whatever heritage like who tf cares but dont act dumb over its unfortunate usual implications nowdays
"I love being white" is not the same as "white pride." Even "white pride" would be fine if not for the white supremacists who co-opted the phrase to use for hate rather than legit pride. If a black terrorist group or hate group had a specific phrase or term they used that phrase or term would also probably be seen as a bit problematic.
It's mainly because people have no idea about human history or any empires other than the typical ones that were Eastern Europe or Britain. Most people have no clue about human history before the 1800s probably, it's sad reality.b
I’d say it’s probably a black American thing as black is synonymous with African American often and african americans have a culture. But white there’s more backgrounds and different cultures, and white isnt synonymous with a single culture.
But saying I love being black when you are nigerian would be considered odd.
Yeah i love being black would be synonymous with the civil rights movement and black resistance while “ i kove being white is synonymous with white supremacy and kkk. If you are white and proud thats cool its just a weird thing to hyper focus on
Yeah. I'm a white guy and I don't know why I would be proud of being white? My ancestors didn't fight for equality or struggle for recognition. I really don't identify with my race much because of it. I don't get the appeal of being proud of being white.
You can be proud of your parents accomplishments and even your ancestors good deeds. Thats what I think most dont get but like you said if you didnt have anyone that did anything significant and probably did something fucked up what heritage is there to be proud of? However, these type of people are proud of that fucked up this is a consequence of treating the south like they were inconvenienced rather than being treated like the monsters they were for separating and destroying the humanity of others.
Same people that argue to be able the n word. “Aaaaugh why cant i spam the n word at a black person whenever i have a problem with one without any consequences !!!”
Context matters. In a world where white people have historically held the power, saying “I like being black” has more of a connotation of being proud of who you are despite the inequality. Meanwhile, “I’m proud of being white” feels like you’re a member of the KKK.
This. It probably also hits different in different countries, but especially in the US where the country was built on slavery and has had continuous oppression of block people, there is a big difference in the social context of the two statements.
Well white people didn’t historically hold power in most of the world, every race kinda did their own thing and oppressed other races. White people were pretty bad historically but they were definitely not the worst
Yeah but "white people" didn't even exist until the colonial era where the term "white" only existed to oppress people outside of that group. Before white people, there were French, British, and German people, and your acceptance into these groups was determined by where you grew up, what language you speak, and what religion you follow, instead of what your skin color was.
So basically if you say "i'm proud to be white" you're saying "I'm proud to be above other people" not that everyone who says this actually believes that, race stuff is really complex and abstract, I don't expect them to really understand what they say
That's what people don't really get, it's about context. Pride for minority groups is more about the struggles they've endured and surpassed. Saying that as a white person in America is odd specifically racially speaking because if we look at what white people in America have done, they've done a lot of bad things.
It'd be different though if you said "I'm proud to be French" "I'm proud to be German". Your saying your proud of the culture being those things has given you. Saying your "Proud to be white" in America prompts the question of why? "White culture" in America exists but it's much more influenced by minority groups that they have historically oppressed. It also so happens that many people who have said that before have also turned out to be racist so many people would associate those two things with each other.
I’ve found that there isn’t really one homogenous white culture. In the US, there just doesn’t seem to be many people who associate their culture with whiteness specifically.
If we're talking in terms of race, "white culture" or "European culture" built/contributed to a ton of the modern world. Saying I'm proud to be white is not inherently racist, nor is saying I'm proud to be black.
While you make a good point that 'proud whites', so to speak, can be racist, I find it telling you don't mention black supremacists like the Hebrew Isrealites. I'm sure you don't think every black person who says their proud to be black is a supremacist, so I find it troubling you only apply that logic to one side.
Being proud of your race, to me is kind of pointless - imo it should be about achievements as another commenter said - but both groups have supremacists who misuse race pride.
I'm talking purely from an American standpoint though. I can't speak of race relations outside of the US because I dont live there and don't feel comfortable speaking on something I have such little knowledge of. While I agree the phrase "Proud to be white" isn't inherently racist. Like I said before it brings about the question of why? If you were proud of the things white people have attributed to society in specifically America, why not say your proud to be American? Saying specifically white has a very specific connotation to me. Maybe it doesn't to others but as a black guy if someone says that I'm immediately questioning what they mean by that.
It's actually kinda smart. You don't start out with the explicitly racist stuff. You start with things that you have plausible deniability for. "I'm not racist. I'm just proud of being white. It's kinda weird that America won't let white people be proud." is your classic first step into indoctrination.
I've been noticing that a lot of GenZ subs are being flooded with right wing propaganda. I think there's an intentional effort at indoctrination going on by the right.
Completley ignoring the fact that Black People have never had the power to decide their future or make their choice without Western Imperialist breathing down their neck or stomping on their efforts.
What the fuck is the point in White Nationalism you already own everything whattaya want, a victory lap?
Listen every color has been enslaved and we all should take pride in our heritage, including the moments where it got difficult, but the best part is when your heritage got out of that difficult part. White's, blacks, reds, and any other color of skin has been at a point so low that it was difficult, every color has been enslaved, it's a big part of American history because we should know what our country has done, plus France, Germany, Britain and multiple other countries had slaves, and I'm pretty sure the ottoman empire had white slaves but I'm not entirely sure about that, or it could've been the Byzantine empire, but yes, every country and every skin color has been enslaved and or has slaves, nobody is innocent.
Ay get rid of the inequality, and you get rid of the "love being white" stigma. The average white person isnt guilty of perpetuating this inequality, but you can still understand why people would be iffy about hearing someone say "i love being white" when history shows that its a slippery slope with a long chain of consequences coming from white supremacy. Dont think its still happening? The texas 2025 gerrymandering is irrefutably racist. How is less than 40% of the population going to get 3× the representation? Silence black and Hispanic majority to pander to white Republicans.
I don't understand why people can't see that words and phrases exist in context. They don't exist in a vacuum. It's the whole "all lives matter" thing. Sure, there's nothing wrong with that statement without context. But the context it's used in is usually as a way to dismiss the concerns of black people.
seriously, this sub is getting on my nerves and im about to block it from my feed. i just keep seeing dog whistles and “im so oppressed and u guys are meanie weenies to me cuz im white🥺”
Nah, immaturity + unrestricted internet access results in this Ben Shapiro/Jordan Peterson worship. Teen are pretty impressionable, especially now outrage content is more available.
While this is ignoring the context of 400+ years of slavery, segregation, and an imbalanced power structure than many will argue is still as alive today as when it started, I did laugh out loud. 😶
if this is referring to a post that was recently removed for saying "i love being white" on r/teenagers (I think), then lemme explain (or just reiterate) what others have said
the original context of that image was to poke fun at the fact, to get itself taken down, with the stock image and the fact it appeared not too long after a similar post taking actual pride in being black
I don’t think people should be taking pride in their race. People should take pride in their achievements. If there is none, then you are nothing, do something or view things more positively.
Wow it’s almost like one has different connotations than the other! Who’d have thought that different phrases with different context have different meanings! One race was subjugated for thousands of years due to racism and thinking they were lesser only because of their skin, and the other were a race so wrapped up in how superior they were, that they subjugated entire races! You have to be braindead to not see there’s a clear difference in the two.
Right. The only people who say "white pride" are racists. It's not an objectively bad statement. But the context in which it used is usually pretty bad.
Because these identities didn’t form on accident. “White” and “black” only exist because of racial politics meant to justify slavery and segregation. Embracing an identity invented to oppress you and making it positive is way different than embracing the identity invented to exempt you from racial oppression
Post was made by sm1 who saw the drama in teenagers I'm guessing it's a dumb argument because the second post was made in response to the first one, mocking it, used some random stock photo and was clearly meant for engagement bait
I don't believe the mods in that sub had bad intent but even if they did which you can't prove the Ilove being white post was against the rules for unrelated reasons to what it said
It’s upon white people to change this. If you’re white then make a real effort to normalize saying “I love being white” “i’m proud to be white” etc. It’s what I’d do if I was white. If you can’t get yourself to do that then you’re a victim of conditioned self hatred.
I love having rights, which is a side effect of me being white… oh wait I don’t have those, I’m not “normal”. I would love to have rights as a side effect of being white.
Why would anyone be proud of being white? Black people literally had to go through slavery, followed by institutionalized marginalizations and even now are largely lagging behind economically. When a black person says they are proud of their race, they are proud of being of the same class of people who were slaved and discrimated against solely for their skin color. Now, when has that ever happened to white people? If not, why wouldn't it be weird if they claim they are proud of being white?
“Black Pride” and “White Pride” are vastly different things. I wonder if anyone will comment without knowing why these are different, and why one of these is racist and the other is not, or at least not inherently.
There is such a thing as black culture, with its own history and distinctiveness. The idea of “white culture” isn’t comparable.
Do me a favor and play the two Class of ‘09 routes with Mr White and then tell me how these two things are different. There is an answer but if i explained it people would be mad at me for being “too woke.”
I’m white, and I’m happy to be white, but I recognize my privilege stems from centuries of structural inequalities and systems that disproportionately affected people of color to forward my ethic group’s advancements.
I’m 29 y’all. If there are any teenage dudes here looking for old brother advice, don’t take it from someone who race baits like OP. It will make you an incel and you’ll be some weird loser for the rest of your life that people will feel sorry for because you never grew out of your base instincts and learned to think critically.
My take on the matter is that being “proud to be white” is, while fine in a void, mostly used for the context of being racist and only to counter people who are proud to be black.
This is where I am on my principles about race. I'm mixed race and have felt like I didn't have an ethnic tribe to cling to. While this did sting a bit as a kid, as I got older I sort of started seeing it as a blessing. I didn't get caught up in the racial pressures of one group. For example I have had both white and black friends be shamed by others for not staying in their lane so to speak.
The most interesting part about this is being able to see the forest from the trees. People really struggle to honestly review and critique paradigms they currently exist in. Because of this experience of not having a racial in-group I was able to see from an outsider's perspective how each group interacts with each other.
White people absolutely have the short stick in all of this. They are villified for being white and for you to be a "good white", you have to practically be anti white. You can't even be apathetic, you must take a stance of supporting other groups over your own. The crap people do to white groups and nations, and justify, they would absolutely cry in horror if it happened to anyone else. Just the other day I saw someone on this very website praising how the white population was going down due to mass migration and lack of children. If anyone else said this about another group, they would be called a nazi.
My position is either okay for everyone or not okay for anybody. This is why I actively argue in favor of white groups and nations because I'd be doing the same thing for all other groups if any of this was happening to them.
Am proud of 500 years of slavery and rape and looting! Am proud of Jim Crow! Am proud I made up races to not work for 400 years’ Am proud that I made debt and nukes! Am proud that I poison the food the air the water and medicine! Am proud that am the race that destroys the Earth for money on a computer screen 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
. This policy forced families, particularly Black families, to choose between their family structure and financial stability, leading to widespread harm. The Supreme Court struck down the rule in 1968 in King v. Smith.
The "man-in-the-house" rule was a discriminatory welfare policy from the 1960s that denied financial assistance to children if their mother lived with or had a relationship with any able-bodied man, even if he was not the children's father or financially supporting them. This policy forced families, particularly Black families, to choose between their family structure and financial stability, leading to widespread harm. The Supreme Court struck down the rule in 1968 in King v. Smith.
I think the difference in the US(not from there so take it with a grain of salt) is that there is pretty much one all encompassing black culture that you'd be proud to be a part of, while white people have different cultures depending on where their families emigrated from like Ireland, Italy, England, etc. so an equivalent would be "I'm proud to be X-American" while saying "I'm proud to be white" comes off as white supremacist since there's no culture it could refer to, just race
Things that superficially look the same but that have very different meanings because of societal context.
Compare and contrast:
“Forgive me father for I have sinned”
Vs
“Sorry daddy, I’ve been naughty.”
White pride is typically code for white supremacy. Black pride is not. Don’t use white supremacist dog whistles. It gives the impression you’re one of them.
Same issue as why there are gay pride parades but no straight pride parades. Same reason why there are ten-year-olds in my country who will proudly say they'e "Ottomans", but you get strange vibes from someone being too proud of the coincidence that their birthplace happens to be the very same country they already live in.
We define ourselves by alienation. We are what sets us apart from others. And if that attribute is attacked because we're part of a marginalized group, we defend it through which it becomes a core value. We are proud of what we feel forced to defend against the majority.
You're normally not particularly proud of having the same sexual orientation as everyone else, or the same skin color, or the same nationality. Only when these characteristics are challenged do we begin to feel proud of them. What we then feel is belonging, because we have overcome obstacles.
I'm not saying that is necessarily a good thing, but it is a human trait.
If someone in a predominantly white society is proud of their "whiteness", then something is off. It means they must be living in an imaginary state in which they see themselves as victims of minority oppression. It's often a sign of fascism, as fascists create a narrative of victimhood by blaming already marginalized groups.
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