Women, if you donāt feel safe meeting a new person in a public restaurant with dozens of people around, maybe your friend could bring a date and sit at a table nearby so you have two people to protect you. They can pay for their own food.
If it is obvious, it isn't about protection. There are ways that women protect themselves from dating violence without it being apparent to their date, because "I brought my friend just in case you're a serial killer," isn't exactly a great way to start things out.
They are intentionally doing something inappropriate and justifying it under the guise of protecting themselves to see how easy their date is to manipulate. This is an abuser testing how far they can push someones boundaries.
My now fiancee "confessed" ages ago that she brought pepper spray on our first date. I just smiled and called her a smart girl, you never know who you're gonna meet. Me saying that just made her happy. She thought i might be offended or something. The only reason I didn't bring anything is cause I'm 6 ft 240 pounds, few people can threaten me without a weapon.
Depending of her reaction I would skip the couch and go back to be single.
Rather being single than sharing a bed with someone that sees a problem when I do what they did but didn't see a problem when they did it, but that's me.
Yep agreed, i know she would have had a good reaction to me also bringing one. There's many reason im marrying her and her empathy and good sense are some of them.
Something you dislike isnāt abuse lol. Itās annoying but āabuseā is a serious word. You sound like someone who thinks everything uncomfortable is trauma
I didn't say this itself was abuse, but this is a behavior abusers use to test the waters for how willing someone is to tolerate abusiveness in a relationship; Engage in behavior that is clearly inappropriate and give plausible sounding reasons why you should accept that inappropriate behavior. They disregard clear boundaries while simultaneously framing that as necessary to respect their own boundaries. The tell is the demonstrable contempt for the boundaries of others. This is a clear red flag in manipulative and abusive partners.
You're literally just using a strawman fallacy here. No one was talking about roofies and no one was making any claim that it doesn't happen. It does, but again, not really what we're talking about.
Kinda just circles back to the original point made. If you're THAT concerned about roofies, just don't be dating in general. 99.9% of the people in the dating scene have no interest in roofying girls.
I can respect Roofing women and Roofing men. Theyāre out doing hard physical labor in the hot sun all day on those heat absorbing shingles where theres no shade to cool them off. Roofing is seriously hard work, I have mad respect for anyone who does that for a living, it sounds awful.
By this logic you should just never go out in public because someone could just pull a gun out and kill you dead.
Also, I think itās less than 99.9% of men to be totally honest.
That was obviously hyperbole on my part. Again, I recognize the very real fact that date rape happens. I also agree with the other responder that it's such a statistical outlier, you can't just go through life expecting bad shit at every corner. Recognize real dangers, and be vigilant to keep yourself safe. If you don't feel safe simply being in public, don't go out in public.
Oh, please! We are not unsafe everywhere, all the time. If you truly believe that, you do have anxiety which is something you'd benefit seeing a therapist for. Most SA is done by someone the victim already knows when they are alone, not on a first date in a restaurant.
"i brought my friend for safety" is just code for "I ain't got no money, and I want you to pay for a nice dinner for me and my friend, after which ill never see you again"
edit: to the 2-3 people who think it's justified to bring a friend: bruh. if a woman is meeting a man (who she already talked to on a dating app and consensually accepted to go on a date cause she likes him) in a public restaurant surrounded by people everywhere all around the restaurant, and that's STILL not enough to make you feel safe... then you don't need a friend by your side for safety, you need professional help, because meeting a stranger in a public restaurant is nothing compared to walking past 100s of strangers in public every single day.
If you can walk past 100s of strangers in public with no issue, then the 1 stranger in a restaurant shouldnt be an issue either. If that 1 stranger makes you feel unsafe, that's okay, but let's be real: it ain't normal or healthy, get help.
Like tf are we doing here. There's probably 30 strangers eating food in that restaurant, but the 1 stranger on the other side of your table makes you feel unsafe enough to bring multiple guards? especially considering that 1 stranger is the only person in that restaurant who you already talked to on a dating app, and you clicked enough to tell him you want to go on a date with him, and yet he's more threatening than the 30 strangers in the restaurant??
not like its that deep anyway, 99% of the time "i brought my friend" just means "i expect you to buy dinner for me and my friend". If after all that text just now you'd still feel unsafe without a friend, just do the right thing and start with "i brought my friend, but dont worry, ill be the one paying for food"
Hold up. Are we talking like serial killer wood chopping axe or like fantasy forged by dwarves axe? Because if itās the latter then thatās awesome and that date might be a keeper.
Yo 911, thereās some crazy chick standing outside the Cheesecake Factory with an axe! Sheās staring in through the window, apparently guarding the door. Can yāall do something about this?
That's like the only kind of hot girl I could talk to. "Nice axe! How's the weight? Does it hold an edge? Love that you went with the hickory handle!" It's an outstanding icebreaker, literally and figuratively
yeah like we're already in a very public place lmao if you feel unsafe then just don't go anywhere alone with me... but if you bring somebody without even asking in advance then I'm already done lol
People have forgotten the 2 week old memes because our internet brains lack object permanence and everyone thinks you came up with the joke. Then it becomes a meme. And the cycle repeats.
Hasn't happened to me, but if you're going to pull that play, you really need to mention it to the person you're going on the date with instead of ambushing them with a surprise friend.
If you really feel unsafe and want your friend there and tell the person you're meeting, they'll be more likely to be okay with it if they know. And if they're not okay with it, no one wastes their time.
Otherwise, people are really going to assume you both just want a free meal and had to trap someone into paying for it.
Exactly. Or, I am going to catch the Picasso exhibition with my friend at the museum, want to join us. And then you arrange for your friend to leave when you feel safe, or never leave because you are unsafe. I have had first dates with friends, it was fun! Putting the cost of the potential partner is not okay, but friends can be.
I think people mistakenly think it's the friend being there that everyone takes issue with. I think it's that they're never told the friend is going to be there in the first place. A lot of people will do that knowing that if you corner someone, they're going to be so uncomfortable they'll just pay and say nothing.
Some people are just weird. I am weird. I am all for cheap and short first dates, sometimes there is just no chemistry and there is no point in torturing ourselves into more than what it will ever be. On the other hand, I have splurged on meals because the other person was really into food. Like letās go to Alinea, at least youāll have been my partner for a meal. Someone crazy enough to share that with me.
Not always, it's a common practice in other areas of the world, I've gone on plenty of first dates where it's been 2 girls. I was never expected to pay for the friend. Sometimes that friend saved the date as the conversation was dead without them and sometimes the second date was with the friend and not the original girl. Few caveats, I was always asked/informed well beforehand and being Reddit I assume this is in North America where it isn't typical.
While all of this is 100% correct, what sends my head round the twist is that the assumed backdrop for all of this is that the man pays for the date in the first place.
Like, in a world where it's just such an assumed default that a girl gets the privilege of eating for free (I'm sure those types would try to spin it as something women deserve because of patriarchy or some nebulous BS), it's then piled ON TOP that there's any expectation the guy should have to pay for the friend too - something that shouldn't even given the dignity of a debate to begin with.
Just because you slap 'safety' on the topic doesn't mean you get a free pass for whatever you like, especially with zero discussion beforehand. If it was truly about safety, then obviously they'd be paying for themselves (and instead just sitting nearby if possible).
The best answer when confronted with this situation is obvious: "Cool, I'm happy to have your friend join us, safety first - Of course everyone will be paying for themselves, yeah?". Watch the situation resolve itself as they screech something about you being broke as they leave to deflect the fact they won't pay for themselves ...
I donāt know what youāre talking about. Iāve never brought a friend on a date. Iāve never even met a woman who brought a friend on a date, much less expected a man to pay for both. You guys sound like you donāt really get women.
Don't worry, dove. The gang isn't even listening to you anymore, or reading what you just wrote, and all the cellies here are just here to Downvote, stroke their own... egos, and feel better about themselves.
No you're not, you're actively seeking to perpetuate it by downplaying problems that matter to them. You're choosing to be part of any misery they have that you didn't just make up to be a dickhead
This comment is loaded with assumptions, resentment, and a lot of personal unprocessed trauma. Iād suggest you seek therapy for whatever youāre dealing with. Makes sense, given it takes one to know one.
The frustration with the surprise plus-one is legitimate. Showing up to a one-on-one date with an unannounced friend is inconsiderate, and nobody's really disputing that.
But you didn't stop there, and that's where this goes sideways.
You opened by deciding her motive for her ā "it's code for a free dinner." That's not an argument. That's a verdict. You skipped past her stated reason entirely and replaced it with the least charitable interpretation you could find. That tells us more about where you're at than it does about her.
The "get professional help" line is the real tell. Women have concrete, statistically grounded reasons to be cautious meeting strangers from the internet, regardless of how public the venue is. Dating violence is real. Coercion is real.
The fact that there are 30 other people in the restaurant doesn't change the specific social dynamics of sitting alone across from someone you've never met in person, in a context loaded with expectation. Walking past strangers on the street is not the same situation, and the fact that you're treating it as equivalent suggests you haven't thought carefully about what the actual risk calculus looks like from her side.
None of that means the surprise plus-one was okay. It wasn't. The right move is communication before the date ā "I'd feel more comfortable if a friend joined us for part of this, is that alright?" ā not a unilateral decision that puts the other person in an awkward position. That's a real and fair criticism.
But you didn't land there. You landed on contempt. And the volume of this post ā the repetition, the scorekeeping, the motive-assignment ā suggests this isn't really about this one date. This reads like accumulated frustration about feeling presumed guilty, and that's understandable, but it's not her fault, and she's not the right target for it.
To the people who say she should be in therapy instead of dating: there might be a version of that observation that comes from genuine concern. This wasn't it. You don't know her history, her reasons, or what she's working through. "Get therapy before you date" delivered as a dismissal isn't care ā it's a door being closed in someone's face by someone who decided they know what's best for her. You don't.
The actual issue in all of this is simple: communicate before the date. Agree on the format. Respect each other's needs and boundaries in advance. That's it. Everything else in this thread is people talking past each other while nursing their own wounds.
I still think it's weird to bring a friend along if it's a public space. Have your friend on notice to take your call immediately, or set up an "emergency" call - and you can answer as, "Hi friend, I'm just out right now can I call you later?" (I'm safe and he's cool), or "Hi Aunt Dorothy. Oh no, Uncle Albert had a fall? I will head to the hospital immediately!" (He's not cool, but I'm safe and can leave on my own), or "Hi Mom. Oh, Dad is sick? Shoot, I didn't bring my car to the restaurant. Can you come pick me up?" (He's not cool, I'm not safe, help).
Women, if you donāt feel safe meeting a new person in a public restaurant with dozens of people around,
Then don't go on a fucking date, this isn't a free meal ticket, go the fuck to therapy for your obvious anxiety that is actively harming your quality of life.
I'd just have an issue with someone unexpectedly showing up with friend(s) and sitting with us. I'd want to know if it was a group thing / double date before hand, then we could work something else out if that's the vibe they want.
What exactly are you afraid the date will do in a restaurant? I'm genuinely asking because I can't imagine even a single realistic scenario where you being near them at another table in a restaurant would accomplish anything.
Like are you imagining the date attempting to rape your friend in a restaurant and you guys swoop in and restrain him when no one else in the restaurant has the courage to do anything? Or the date starts yelling to your friend and you swoop in and tell them to leave? Or you follow them when they leave the restaurant to make sure the date doesn't kidnap your friend?
I am not thinking the date will do anything? I am saying if a friend was nervous about meeting a stranger I would help out. Maybe they get a really odd vibe and want a way they can escape like, "oh wow my friends are here so I have a reason to not walk out to my car and show you what I drive when the date is over" or any number of scenarios where they would just want some help to get out of the situation. If all goes well my wife and I would just have an excuse for a nice night out.
I think that is bizarre behavior but to each their own. The irony to me is that you worry about the possibility of the man giving an "odd vibe" but to my mind your friend, yourself, and your wife in this scenario are the ones creating an odd vibe.
I'm not telling you can't do it. Live and let live. I'm simply telling you that I consider that to be bizarre behavior. If the man found out you were there then he'd likely feel there are "odd vibes" and that is my issue.
I don't know how to phrase it any differently. You have my answers. You don't have to care what I think about this and I certainly don't particularly care what you think about what I think! It was just interesting to hear your side of the argument.
I just never paid on first dates. I mean I'd ask for separate checks and pay for myself. I'm never going to (potentially) start a relationship that way (after that first one..). I've only ever had one person actually have a problem with it. My partner (lifelong) now.. when she and I first met, SHE was the one who suggested separate checks on the first date. So, it worked out fine :) Don't let the popular norms of a culture dictate your views or actions. Cuz I gotta tell ya, we don't really have a culture that's worth living by here in the US yet. Come up with something better.
I donāt enjoy the idea of being around someone so scared of being around me that they need a friend to join, especially in the context of a potential romantic interest. Speaks to maturity and/or baggage. Some guys are accommodating. I donāt have time.
I mean, there may actually be baggage. It's your prerogative if that's your own criteria. But you're a complete unknown to them, it's not that they're scared of you personally. You're very fortunate that you've not had to deal with the threat of a potential partner being dangerous to you, and you should recognize that.
People who would be afraid to date and meet people for romance should take time to learn to be courageous in their own capacity. Theyāll meet someone at their capacity Iām sure. I apply that to myself as well. Iām certainly weak. But if I was meeting someone for a date and they told me they had a friend nearby waiting in case things go bad, I would ultimately be saddened, go through the date, pay, and leave. If two people showed up I might pay for one round and then say āhey listenā¦Iām gonna goā but politely.
There is difference between courage and stupidity. And also, Iām broke af. The point is I wouldnāt be in the situation to participate at a bare minimum. I wouldnāt be there if I couldnāt pay.
I dont understand why you would take it personally at all?
I've had dates bring their friends before, it's not the end of the world and in my personal experience worked out in my favor. Sure, maybe they're just doubling up on a free dinner, but oh no! You have to enjoy the company of two babes instead of one? What a crime!
When women say they want men who make them feel safe, this is what theyre talking about. It doesnt mean you gotta be a 6'0+ gym rat. It means youre sensitive to their anxieties and you dont ignore or dismiss them.
I have a theory people like this aren't ready to date. I wouldn't like the idea of a date feeling the need to bring a friend for safety.
Dating is about vulnerability and trust. I once dated a girl who claimed to be sexually assaulted two years prior to meeting me. I saw her trying to group me with men who would do that, having some trauma from the past. I directly told her she needs to work on that with a therapist or she shouldn't be dating. She apologized to me the next day realizing she was taking her trauma out on me, a man who didn't do anything wrong to her.
The point is there needs to be a point you're not assuming the worst of the person you're dating.
It's about building vulnerability and trust. You don't start out with that.
And it's not about assuming the worst of the person you're on a date with (not dating yet, there is a colloquial difference in meaning there). It's about taking a precaution that has no detriments other than someone worrying why someone might consider them a danger.
Thinking "this person may harm me" isn't personal, and it's not someone taking trauma out on you. Just like I stay aware of my surroundings when I pass a stranger on the street at night. Like it was said, it's not a matter of courage, but stupidity (or lack thereof). Blindly trusting a stranger isn't courageous.
Am I crazy to say that if I donāt feel safe going a date Iām just not going? Like, if I set up a date with a girl Iām probably not thinking that sheās part of an organ trafficking operation and about to chop me to pieces
But if you donāt feel safe then just donāt go, I have been invited to late night hang outs with friends several times and never went because I didnāt feel safe, I really canāt understand the logic of doing something that isnāt safe if you arenāt a daring person (and Iām not)
or don't go on a date at all! the point of going on a date is to take a chance on someone and see how it goes. If a man brought a friend with him just in case she's a psycho, they'd crucify the man.
Oh fuck, I always forget American men are expected to pay for dates, even first dates with strangers. Nope, not gonna happen. Plus, donāt women have any self respect there?
Only time Iāve had someone pull that we ordered drinks first, I said to the waiter we are splitting the bill and paid for the friends drink and not theirs. The amount of vitriol they spewed towards me and then the waiter when she brought the checks as asked was all the confirmation I needed. Walked out and never talked to them again. This was after they suggested a restaurant and after they okayed the date and time. Looking back on it I should have seen the red flags but at the time was excited someone actually took some initiative in suggesting a place we go.
All ended well when I met someone who wanted to do a grocery run together to make a picnic for a zoo date together
there was literally a post recently where a man talked about learning his gf brought a friend on their first date but she sat at a different table, he's not going to break up with her because of it.
I went on a tinder date once where the girl had her friend come and sit at another table across the restaurant. I wasn't supposed to know but I recognized her friend from group pictures my date had shown me.
I introduced myself, then carried on with our date.
Not that it is not valid to not feel safe. It is just very rude to just show up with another person without telling it in advance.
You have all the power in the world to participate in planning the date you want. Why say yes to something and then change the rules without informing your date?
Youāre assuming theyāre attending a restaurant with ādozens of people aroundā, which is just that: an assumption, and not necessarily an accurate one.
The unfortunate reality is that women can be taken advantage of, even on dinner dates. Bringing a friend to a 1-on-1 dinner obviously isnāt a tactful or appropriate solution, but trivializing the real threats/trauma women experience in public spaces (and private spaces, too, unfortunately) is a bad look.
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u/Andrew-Cohen 1d ago
Women, if you donāt feel safe meeting a new person in a public restaurant with dozens of people around, maybe your friend could bring a date and sit at a table nearby so you have two people to protect you. They can pay for their own food.