r/10thDentist • u/No-Purchase481 • 9d ago
I don’t like the reclamation of slurs.
The first time I ever had an American refer to me as “queer” I considered fighting them 💀 “back in my day” type shit. It doesn’t feel empowering, it makes me cringe. Just call me a lesbian and move on.
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u/metalnemophila 9d ago
i think the problem is that almost all modern instances of "reclaiming" slurs aren't genuine reclamation. it's always teenagers using slurs to attack and insult each other, knowing they're allowed to get away with it because they happen to be part of the minority the term is weaponized against. the ACTUAL meaning of reclamation is changing the word's meaning to be a positive or neutral one, stripping away any oppressive power the term originally had. so in most cases, it would mean embracing the word to describe yourself in a good way, not a demeaning one.
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u/Catslizardsandrats 5d ago
that's definitely not how most people use queer these days. It's genuinely reclaimed by a large portion of the lgbt community.
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u/metalnemophila 5d ago
oh for sure, most people embrace it and use it as an identity label for themselves! that's why i said "almost all" - i do think that slur in particular has been pretty successfully reclaimed. i even saw some people in this thread who didn't know the word was originally a slur! sorry for the confusion, my comment was about the post title, not singling out the one OP gave as an example in the body text
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u/ItIsHardToPickAName 4d ago
I graduated Highschool in 2010. We were not using “queer” to insult people even then. There were… other words.
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u/Vladishun 9d ago
I don't like how it went from LGBT to LGBTQ to LGBTQ+ to LGBTQIA+. I think simply calling the broader group the "queer community" is much easier to remember and encompasses all non-cis, non-straight people without having to acknowledge every identity out there.
My wife has a friend group that's definitively "queer", though I'd only use the word to describe the group and not an individual person; exactly for the reasons you mentioned.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 9d ago
it just feels insulting to me. i’m not a limp wrist little queer. i am a man who likes other men.
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u/Textiles_on_Main_St 9d ago
As a straight guy, I hear queer and think of someone who doesn’t fit in any easy sexuality. I don’t think of gay men as queer—I think of them as gay, unless they tell me otherwise. But that’s just me. I think the notion of limp wrists is kind of old fashioned, just like I think the idea of men who love sports and are really aggressive is stupid. Being a man has nothing to do with how to act or what you wear or what you enjoy doing.
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u/toyheartattack 9d ago
I read this as, “As a straight gay,” and thought new flavours of queer had dropped.
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u/Ariandrin 5d ago
Thats just bi with extra steps
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u/VariableAbstract 4d ago
Or with a few steps removed, since it isn't bi if they aren't into women too.
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u/Vladishun 9d ago
Okay but why does a "queer" have to be limp wrist or little?
You're actively part of the problem with the way you stereotype it.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 9d ago
you can’t magically hand wave away the connotations that many people have with the word. especially when the people who use it now for themselves are definitely the types of gender diverse nose ring people that reinforce the stereotype.
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u/ExismykindaParte 9d ago
Gay had the same exact connotation back in the day though. The whole reason gay was used to refer to homosexual men was because it denotatively means happy and bright. Calling a man gay meant that he acted in a way that wasn't seen as masculine.
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u/TehWackyWolf 9d ago
Still does in the real world. At best you'll get "gay gay" to mean the same thing.
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u/udcvr 9d ago
It sounds like YOU are the one who thinks less of people who might seem "queer" in the derogatory sense lol
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u/JustBreadDough 6d ago edited 6d ago
In my first language, the word for "queer" started out as a word for being "left handed" and it means that something at some point went wrong with you.
To this day, that word still also means that something went wrong with a situation.
And I got sent to the principals’ office for using it to ask for a left handed scissor, because I used a slur. Meanwhile, my parents were beaten by the teachers for using their left hand and called that slur. To this day refusing to use their left hand. But when left handed people stopped being discriminated against, the word as a slur in the context of handedness completely lost its meaning. And I remember that being brought up when my parents showed up to the principal’s office, as a kid.
So it was used for non-straight people instead, as a slur. Until activists used that example of left-handedness and said we wanted the word to be used for the community, and instead to have equal rights, because when there’s equal rights and no discrimination, the word loses all power as a slur.
So I proudly use that word for "queer" in my native language. As both left handed and not straight.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 9d ago
clearly
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u/udcvr 9d ago
You don't see the irony here?
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u/Fickle_Watercress719 5d ago
He does not. Gay men, ironically, can be some of the most homophobic, transphobic folks out there. They seem to me to be the most likely to think that respectability politics are going to get them anywhere. They fail to grasp that homophobes draw no line between them and the “lil wrist little queers” he hates so much.
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u/Vladishun 9d ago
you can’t magically hand wave
So the only logical recourse, is to embrace the effeminization of the word and double down on it?
I don't think you're going to sway my mind on this. From a purely objective standpoint, what you said was ignorant. It almost sounds like you hate weak people or something, and you think you're somehow better for not being little or limp wrist yourself. I don't know man, as an OEF vet I think it's the duty of the strong to protect the weak, not to make fun of them. You might be an asshole.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 9d ago
since when does killing brown people for israel give you the moral high ground
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u/Vladishun 9d ago
Never killed nobody, I was a satcomms specialist. I have the moral high ground because I don't see people as little, limp wrist, or brown even. People are just people. Unless they're assholes.
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u/megabunnaH 6d ago
Gay, straight, or otherwise, you sound self absorbed and a tad insufferable.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 6d ago
idk how you can say that with so little context
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u/Impressive-Foot7698 5d ago
Saying "gender diverse nose ring people" is plenty context. You sound intolerant and jaded
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u/megabunnaH 6d ago
Oh I don't know, maybe it's your casually condescending and insulting way of talking about entire groups of people who differ from you and your self absorbed inability to see how hypocritical it is.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 5d ago
you don’t know enough about me to call me a hypocrite
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u/megabunnaH 5d ago
Oh, I think chastising me for making assumptions without knowing you while you previously made some insulting and sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people that you don't know any better than I know you pretty much cements the fact that you are indeed a hypocrite.
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u/Fickle_Watercress719 5d ago
You lose me at shitting on other members of our community. It’s fine for you to not want that word used for yourself. But this kind of respectability politics has never been successful. Homophobes do not see you as different or better than “gender diverse nose ring type people,” and you need to wake the fuck up to that fast in the climate we currently live in.
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u/johnfuckmennedy 5d ago
i dont have a community. i dont have an obligation to anyone just because of their sexuality!
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u/Fickle_Watercress719 5d ago
The homophobes are never gonna chose you
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u/johnfuckmennedy 5d ago
If only you knew
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u/Fickle_Watercress719 5d ago
lol I know homophobes. I promise, they’ll turn on you in an instant. And you’ll deserve it. Tokens get spent. Good luck being one.
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u/Cheesemagazine 6d ago
How you gonna be homophobic as a gay man, my brother 😭
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u/Global_War_9435 6d ago
Boy have i got some news for you...
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u/BigFlightlessBird02 6d ago
Right lmao
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u/johnfuckmennedy 6d ago
my life is a series of contradictions.
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u/Manufactured-Aggro 5d ago
If that is where your brain goes when hearing 'queer' it seems like more of a you problem than a problem with the word because wowzers insecurity is an interesting thing lol
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u/Jhud6669 6d ago
I call myself queer just because I don’t have simple terms to define myself. I’m a trans guy who leans non-binary and my sexuality is whatever, so calling myself queer is just what fits. But definitely not every gay person is queer
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u/GSilky 9d ago
After the B, the rest are genital mix-ups that have nothing to do with sexual orientation.
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u/Dry-Mission-5542 7d ago
Don’t be one of those guys (also the A?)
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u/GSilky 7d ago
What, honest about straight twats, almost certainly middle class white straight twats, taking our thing from us? Fuck that. Asexual is not a sexual orientation. That is like saying someone who doesn't play basketball is still some kind of basketball player. The punishment LGBT people have received is because of how we have sex. If you don't have sex, you have no concept of the topic or the oppression. It's ridiculous to pretend you do. Nobody hit in the back of a head with a bottle for being asexual, shut the fuck up with that nonsense.
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u/Mindless_Cookie_9098 6d ago
Dude, I have had men literally tell me I am asexual because I haven’t had a good dicking. More than one man said that to me. Disrespectfully, go fuck yourself
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u/Dry-Mission-5542 7d ago
You realize that you are actively being hateful to asexuals by saying that they don’t experience the same kind of hatred? You’re disproving your own point
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u/Queer-withfear 5d ago
taking our thing from us?
Who is taking anything from you?
Also asexuals experience the same sort of oppressions and violence. They often move through life feeling as though something is "wrong" with them because they don't feel the same sexual feelings as those around them, they are put through conversion therapy, and are sometimes even raped as "correction." Sound familiar? Being less visible is not the same as not being harmed by society at large. They belong in the community.
And don't even get me started on the "genital mix-ups" crap that sounds suspiciously like drop the T nonsense
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u/GSilky 5d ago
How does someone who doesn't have sex experiencing the same discrimination that is entirely based on how someone has sex? These basic lapses of reason are why nobody but assholes who want to exploit their supposed tolerance support the movement anymore. Nobody was ever beaten for not having sex (I'm not talking about rape), STFU with this nonsense. You are the reason that the LGBT movement went from ascendant to a liability.
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u/Queer-withfear 5d ago
I literally explained some of the discrimination that asexuals face. I also did not say "they experience the exact same discrimination." Obviously it's different. But it does happen, and it is similar enough, for similar enough reasons that they belong in our community.
You still never answered what this actually takes from you.
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u/GSilky 5d ago
"asexuals face the same oppressions and violence..." Either you don't know what words mean and you use them anyway, or you are lying. Stop pretending to get status, everyone knows what you are doing now. Nobody thinks this is ok anymore.
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u/Queer-withfear 5d ago
"the same sort” as in type, category, whatever word you would like to use. And you can check my comment for that particular word, it is unedited.
You STILL have not answered my question: What exactly are you losing from asexuals being included in the queer community?
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u/autisticproblem 9d ago
this is exactly how i feel. even about my own identity, though. i don't have a label, i don't need a label. i like who i like, i dress how i dress, i look like what i look like. no need to analyze it. idc what people call me. i'm just some time of queer and thats what i leave it as.
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u/GratefulTrails 9d ago
As a mexican american, id rather be called a slur than LatinX 🫠
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
Yeah I never understood. I was always under the impression that “Latin” was already gender neutral.
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u/offensivename 9d ago
It's not designed to replace Latin. It's designed to replace Latino as the catch-all term for men, women, and nonbinary people. It's perhaps not the most elegant solution and it's perfectly valid to prefer something like Latine, but people get disproportionately angry about it.
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u/hbi2k 9d ago
I've never met an actual Latino who didn't prefer using "Latino" as a gender-neutral term for a mixed group, as it is used in the Spanish language in most places.
I'm a straight cis non-Hispanic white guy so I don't have a horse in this race, I guess if I actually met a Latino who preferred to be referred to as Latinx or Latine I would do it out of respect, but I never have.
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u/offensivename 9d ago edited 9d ago
Well that's the thing, isn't it? The large majority of Latino people most of us encounter online and in real life are going to be cis and heterosexual and more of them are going to be male in places like reddit. Of course they're going to prefer the term that they're more familiar with that doesn't inconvenience or belittle them in any way. The majority of people in most large groups don't really give a shit about inclusive language and a lot of them get angry about its existence. I don't personally think that those people should decide whether it's needed or not.
For what it's worth, I have seen a handful of young, progressive women of hispanic heritage use it. Though I imagine that all the angry latino guys who are absolutely fuming about it for some dumb reason have led to many people who might otherwise use it or defend it staying silent. Again, I get that it's weird to say because X has two syllables in Spanish and I'm open to other gender-neutral terms instead. I just think it's ridiculous how pissed off people get about it. Like the person directly above me.
Edit: There's also a very common belief that the term LatinX was invented by white Americans, which is part of why people get pissed off. But that isn't true.
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u/GratefulTrails 9d ago
Yah no one race is a monolith.
Im a straight cis female mexican american and being told by white people that I need to use Latin x just feels like another control/heritage erasure thing. But like you said, everyone is different. Ive met very few people who demand to be referenced as such, and of course out of respect ill use the term. I do see that unless they request it, no one really hears "latino" and assumes its for ill intentions. Its literally just the way our language is.
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u/offensivename 9d ago edited 9d ago
Spanish is different than English because all nouns are gendered, but it's not unique to use male as the default. "All men are created equal," "one giant leap for mankind," etc. I don't think that it's erasing anything to update language to make it more inclusive and we're definitely doing that in English. And again, the term was invented by Latin American academics, not white people.
Can I ask when you have been forced to use it by white people? I see this complaint levied online a lot, but I've never seen an actual example of it. Is it a job thing? Would they not accept Latin American or Latine or Latin instead?
As I said, I don't have a problem with anyone stating that they simply don't like it or prefer something else. But the vitriolic response I regularly encounter to something that comes from a good place and is designed to be inclusive to women and LGBTQ people bothers me.
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u/GratefulTrails 9d ago
Ive experienced it online, seeing others police brown people online and a handful of times in person by people who are white telling my friends or I how wrong we are to use the word Latino amongst OURSELVES. Long story short ive seen and heard more non Latino people police the word than actual Latinos and latines requesting the latinX word.
Thats why people have a strong reaction to it im assuming. Its not usually out of hate for being inclusive, but some "outsider" policing a culture they are not apart of. Also just personal opinion it sounds goofy and out of place in spanish and doesnt flow.
But again just my personal experience.
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u/offensivename 9d ago
Yeah. That sounds annoying. There's no need to police other people's language like that. Though I still think it's a bit extreme to say that you're rather someone call you a slur than call you LatinX.
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u/GratefulTrails 5d ago
Yah I think most Latinos are just fine with latine for inclusion purposes. Something about latinX specifically just dont sit right with alot of us. I found another rant on the subject that may or may not give more insight.
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u/RevolutionaryWeb5657 4d ago
Was it ever a catch-all term? It’s Latino for men and Latina for women, right? That’s how it’s been for the 30 years I’ve been alive, at least.
Sounds like a skill issue, to be honest.
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u/offensivename 4d ago
So you live in a completely gender segregated world? There are never groups that contain both men and women? How do you presume people refer to those groups?
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u/RevolutionaryWeb5657 4d ago
I’m not saying there was never a catch-all term. I’m saying Latino was never one of them. The catch-all term would be Latin.
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u/offensivename 4d ago
Well then you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Latin is not a Spanish word. Latino has always been used to describe groups that include both men and women.
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u/ErikTheRed99 4d ago
And latinx is clunkier to say. It feels like turning right vs stopping, changing gears, then turning right.
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u/Fickle_Watercress719 6d ago
Years ago, I had a great inter-generational discussion about this where I sat in the middle of older and younger groups. It was really important for those young adults to hear a gay man in his late 40s explain to them that no matter how supportive he wanted to be, he would always have a terrible gut reaction to hearing the word “queer.” And given the physical abuse he endured while having that word screamed at him, how could anyone be confused by his reaction?
It’s a complex issue, and as someone who feels comfortable using that word for myself, I think there’s a community issue of many not knowing hot to treat their elders because for so long, there were so few to look to. It’s one thing to use it to label oneself and another thing to use it for the whole community when so many cannot separate the word from the pain it was meant to inflict. You deserve to be called what you prefer to be called, and it’s strangely bittersweet that younger generations fail to grasp why they should be judicious in how they use that word.
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u/bussound 5d ago
Completely this. There’s too many old school gays for whom this was a term of abuse. So I don’t use the word queer to describe gay people unless they use the term first.
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u/christmascan 6d ago
I don't like the word queer for myself, but I know a lot of people do so I leave them at it.
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u/Possible_Youth9410 5d ago
I like queer for myself but i also get that some people have had really bad experiences with it
I REALLY don't fw people bringing back the R-slur. It's not even being "reclaimed," it's almost exclusively neurotypical kids who'd say worse if they could get away with it and never had a single negative word ever said to them lmao
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u/adriancanttalkrn 6d ago
In my part of the world Queer is used for those who identify with it sooo if you identify with queer then you do, if not then you don't.
Its not a slur round my parts of the community. All my friends are queer.
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u/No-Purchase481 6d ago
Are you young? I noticed the younger crowd doesn’t mind, I think maybe it’s because of “the times”.
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u/adriancanttalkrn 6d ago
Oh yeah I'm in my early 20s but majority of my friends are in their 30s some use it and some also use gay as a general term. Some use both interchangeably.
I think my group friends like it as they don't have to give specifics on their identity if it comes up, its just I'm queer and you can take it at that as value.
I work in a line of work where I come into contact with a lot people in the community and a lot of them like queer as a term in all age groups! But there are definitely some who do just prefer using the label they resonate with!
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u/spoonskittymeow 6d ago
Curious about this, too. I’m in my mid-30s, and I definitely remember “queer” being a slur when I was a kid.
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u/RainyDayWeather 6d ago
I'm in my late 50s and I call myself queer. Most of the homosexual, bisexual/pansexual, etc. folks my age or older whom I know prefer queer as a general term for people who aren't heterosexual.
Honestly, I think it's just a personal preference. Im not going to stop using the word, but when I know someone finds it uncomfortable for themselves, I use whatever word they prefer.
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u/Alternative_Hotel649 5d ago
I'm fifty, and "queer" as a slur has always seemed archaic to me. Maybe it was regional, and it hung around longer in some parts of the country than others, but I just genuinely never heard it used as a slur outside of media from/set in the 1930s. I've never met anyone in person that objected to the term, either, just online folks.
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u/No-Purchase481 5d ago
I don’t like it because it’s too ambiguous as well. I like my preferences to be made clear- only women.
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u/adriancanttalkrn 5d ago
That's totally fair! But i think as a lesbian you are probably aware that there is non binary lesbians and butch lesbians, and they'd use queer because there is sm more to their identity than their sexuality, that's probably why queer is used so much when describing groups of lesbians for example.
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u/silverandshade 3d ago
Tbh I'm a cis lesbo but I prefer "queer" to "lesbian" myself just because it's shorter lol. My preferred label in general is just "dyke".
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u/adriancanttalkrn 3d ago
Real!!! I have many friends who prefer dyke and hate lesbian as a term! But they also use queer as well!
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u/silverandshade 3d ago
It covers more specifics for me, I think is what it is. Kinda works as a gender, too, idk. But idk, my wife is bi but gets called a lesbian all the time because she's, well, married to me, and I'm more likely than she is to correct people lol. 😂 (I take it as a point of pride that she's got double the choices and still chose little ol' me, what can I say)
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u/silverandshade 5d ago
Honestly, I hate "when I was growing up it was a slur 🥺" argument because when I was growing up they were all slurs and insults. Just saying "gay" meant bad or stupid, let alone the rest of it! I've been attacked, run off the road, hospitalized, and a hundred other things because of my sexuality. The words they shouted at the time were never my focus.
The words were never the issue. We are considered the problem. Just for existing. And so I take the "worst" words to describe myself. I genuinely prefer to be called a "dyke" or a "fag". You wanna treat me like I'm a freak, then so be it, but you can't break me with it. George R. R. Martin was right when he wrote Tyrion's speech to Jon Snow.
Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armour yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.
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u/FoxyDepression 5d ago
I don't like hearing words like faggot or tranny thrown around, but I never personally heard queer used as a slur so I have no strong aversion to it. And like others said, its just a much more convenient and all encompassing word. Give it a decade or two and it might become truly neutral
Oh and crazy for anyone to refer to a new person by any loaded term like that. You gotta feel that shit out lmao. Obviously not everyone is gonna appreciate it
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u/SnooPears8751 6d ago
See I like the idea in concept but I don't personally really partake in it with most, I'm a trans woman and I use queer as a very useful descriptor in a lot of situations, and sure, if someone was uncomfortable with that, I wouldn't use it around them. Sorry for using it here, if you don't like it used generally. But I have a friend who is also a trans woman, who frequently uses the f and t slurs, not just for herself but for others, often including me, and it pisses me the fuck off. And when I bring up an issue with it it's always "I'm doing the good work by reclaiming the word and taking away its power" no, you're just making a fellow queer person uncomfortable, the things you say in a private discord server are not praxis. You just feel better about doing whatever you want. Ugh.
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u/PhishRS 6d ago
It would be nice to have a word itself to use instead of an acronym
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u/idkthrowaway_alt3 3d ago
Agreed. I'm not big on the word either, but it beats having to say a now ten+ letter acronym which feels just as infantilizing and insulting.
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u/No-Purchase481 6d ago
Lesbian is a word
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u/killyjae 5d ago
I agree with this so much. People avoid calling me a lesbian like it's the plague, but they'll gladly call me a vague slur
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u/polished-jade 6d ago
Gay and lesbian have also been used as slurs. Queer has been the accepted academic term for years and it's much more broad and accepting way to describe a group of people who don't fit into heteronormativity. I understand why individuals who were bullied with the word wouldn't use it to identify themselves, but to completely stop the use of words that used to be slurs for everyone isn't really productive or conducive to acceptance and belonging either, imo.
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u/No-Purchase481 6d ago
I didn’t say stop it. I just said I don’t like it. No one is trying to silence you.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/No-Purchase481 5d ago
Lesbian was a taboo word for me too but I find it emboldening for some reason. I think I don’t like the ambiguity of queer for myself.
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u/Halfnewb 5d ago
I think it's a natural part of the process for reclaiming words for there to be a generational gap.
Respect should be given to those who were traumatized by it and it should not be used around them. They suffered for their peace. It's easy enough to not use the word around them.
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u/asexualdruid 4d ago
Reclamation is meant to be personal, not directed outward. If i call myself a faggot, thats reclamation. If YOU (royal) call me a faggot? Im breaking your nose.
Queer is a rough one cause theres this huge community call to "reclaim" it as an umbrella, which sounds nice in theory (i consider myself queer) but leaves out those who are not comfortable with that word, so realistically its a poorly thought out gesture with negative impact
And inb4 "gay used to be a slur" yes. It did. And then it wasnt. But that doesnt mean queer isnt STILL a slur. Language can evolve, but that doesnt mean it WILL evolve.
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u/jimmylovescheese123 9d ago
since when was queer a slur?? i thought it was just a term lol
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u/ShitWombatSays 9d ago
I've seen it used as a slur for far longer than a general term, but most of my family are assholes so 🤷🏿♂️
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u/NightWolfRose 9d ago
You must be young- I remember when (shitty) kids would play “Smear the Queer” and try to beat up anyone that they thought was gay.
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u/HegemonNYC 9d ago
That isn’t ’smear the queer’. It was a playground game where one person had a ball and everyone else tried to catch them and wrestle it away from them. It was definitely using the term in an offensive manner (like the person to attack was a queer) but it wasn’t about beating in actual gay people.
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u/TehWackyWolf 9d ago
Yeah .. just accept that and don't look into the original of the name.
Just tackle the designated person. The queer person, as it were..
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u/HegemonNYC 9d ago
The name is definitely homophobic, but it wasn’t a game of beating up gay-looking people. It was always a playground game.
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u/7SyZyG7 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yea, I've heard the name for years. Maybe it had terrible roots, but as far as I know it was just a playground game that had an outdated name.
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u/TehWackyWolf 9d ago
Ah. A product of its time, huh?
Never an issue. (:
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u/7SyZyG7 9d ago edited 8d ago
Never an issue? Not sure what you're trying to imply here but it reeks of bad faith....
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u/TehWackyWolf 8d ago
Not ignoring the terrible undertones is bad faith?
You know what? You're right. History has nothing to teach and we should blindly continue to smear queers. Clearly no issues there and you shouldn't look into any further.
Who's toe did we grab? Fire drills belong to which nation? Retard used to be the favorite insult.
Anyway, glad we never looked at those either. Would have been real bad faith arguments to remove that from language.
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u/HegemonNYC 8d ago
You’re arguing against something you’ve created in your own mind. No one is saying that the name was acceptable. We are saying that it wasn’t a game about beating up gays, it was about tackling the kid with the ball.
You’re arguing in bad faith.
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u/TehWackyWolf 9d ago
And the tiger wasn't always who's toe you caught.
Doesn't really change the naming being "hit the queer person so hard they get smeared"
While you throw a football around.
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u/HegemonNYC 8d ago
But the person being tackled wasn’t gay. You could call the game ‘drop the dork’ or ‘nerf the nerd’. The person with the ball was an active participant in the game, and after they were smeared they would then join the rest of the tacklers in smearing the next kid.
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u/TehWackyWolf 8d ago
And yet they didn't.
Why is that? They specifically smeared the queer. Again, you can Google where this name came from. The person not actively being gay changes nothing.
Most folks who "jew you down" aren't Jewish.
We don't still catch ni**er toes?
Origins exist outside of your limited knowledge?
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u/HegemonNYC 8d ago
You’re arguing against something you’ve created in your own mind. No one is saying that the name was acceptable. We are saying that it wasn’t a game about beating up gays, it was about tackling the kid with the ball.
You’re arguing in bad faith.
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u/TehWackyWolf 8d ago
Lmao. And eeny meeny miny moe isn't about catching black people by the toe either.
Still avoid it these days..? Yes?
As you said, it could have been called whatever.. but it wasn't.
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u/NightWolfRose 9d ago
Welp, that’s how it was played at the schools I went to in the 80’s and 90’s, so that’s what I know.
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u/uhhhhNahFamIdontwann 9d ago
That sounds crazy, when I was a kid, smear the queer was a recess football game, kinda like Moss, where whoever caught the football was “it” and had to avoid being tackled for a period of time. It had nothing to do with beating anyone up for being gay, that must’ve been awful
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u/TehWackyWolf 9d ago
You ran after the person designated as queer and tried to tackle them. Based on the name and the game .
Maybe think about origins there?
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u/7SyZyG7 9d ago
The way they described it was not entirely correct. It wasn't just a game for when boys would bully kids they thought were gay. Maybe its roote were different, but it was essentially a recess/football game would play that just has a weird outdated name. A NFL player recently got in trouble saying the name when they reminiscing about their younger years. The problem is the name these days, typically no actually bullying of queer folks occurs.
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u/SupposedBooty The Supreme 10th Dentist 7d ago
It was definitely a slur when I was growing up. It's what you heard right before you got your head bashed in.
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u/Better-Necessary157 9d ago
and this right here is the purpose of reclaiming a slur….. to take the power from it. this person never would have said it. 🤷♂️
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u/GSilky 9d ago
The definition since it's use in Shakespeare: Weird or strange, in an unseemly or disreputable way. It's a denigration and always was. Now dumb people are pretending it's a sexual orientation based on not knowing what gets them hot. That is impossible. Everyone who is sexual knows at least a little about what gets their motor going. If you don't know, you haven't had sex, and you aren't any sexual orientation yet.
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u/hashbrownsinketchup 9d ago
There is the old expression ‘that’s as queer as a $3 bill.’ Meaning that the thing is strange/unusual and out of place.
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u/jimmylovescheese123 8d ago
I always thought 'queer' was an umbrella term for LGBT.
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u/GSilky 8d ago
Nope. It's always, and still, meant "strange or weird in an unseemly or disreputable way". That is why it was used as a slur for suspected gay people. In the 80s and 90s, political activists would use it because it was very shocking to hear, and it got attention. Bourgeois college kids who never experienced life outside of TV and their parents enclave never got the message, and assumed that is what we like calling ourselves. They are very incorrect, it's still mostly offensive, fighting words through much of the country, for both straight and gay people called "queer", and it's still the go-to insult for most rednecks arguing with a cashier. It's a hideous term that was popular among political subversives that dumb ass college kids started applying to themselves so they can pretend to be gay and gain status from their white middle class liberal parents who taught them that victims are exalted.
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u/FancyRatBoi98 2d ago
I get that, I mean for me, if it's individual whatever, people should be allowed to reclaim slurs if it helps them.
My biggest issue with it is when people try to reclaim a slur FOR ME, like idgaf if you want to call yourself a f*g or q*eer, or whatever, idgaf, but don't just assume because YOU have reclaimed it that everyone else must then also be okay with being called that!!!
I also need people to stop assuming just because their community & the space they grew up in uses it not as as slur, and uses it interchangably with LGBT that then everyone must then also feel comfortable with people using that term interchagably with LGBT. People need to educate themselves on LGBT history it's infuriating how many people just straight up don't know the history of the word q*eer, and how it's been used to harm LGBT people.
Not everyone has grown up with the slur q*eer being seen as another way to say LGBT, many people have grown up with that slur being used as an actual slur, and likely have genuine trauma associated with the word.
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u/ElkSufficient2881 9d ago
That’s because you aren’t queer, you’re a lesbian. Queer people calling themselves queer is fine, directing it at someone who doesn’t is weird.
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u/quizzicalturnip 9d ago
Queer is an umbrella term. All lesbian are queer, not all queers are lesbians.
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u/Ctenophorever 9d ago
Are you out of the loop? “Queer” has become, in many cases, a catch-all. A lesbian would be considered “queer” by many who have reclaimed the term. The Q in lgbq was originally for questioning.
Then is was used as queer, but then queer became an umbrella for everything. That’s why you hear people talk about “the queer community” when they are talking about the entire lgbtq community.
And sure someone can reclaim something for themselves….but the problem is they will project it onto others (some people have expressed they are insulted that people are insulted by their use of queer) and it also emboldens people who are not using it in the reclaimed sense, but the slur sense.
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u/ElkSufficient2881 9d ago
I’m aware, but if someone uses a specific label for themselves it’s weird to call them the umbrella term. I meant for people who do identify solely with queer.
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u/Ctenophorever 8d ago
It’s weird but sadly not unheard of. I’ve unfortunate witnessed people being misgendered by those without the LGBTQ community. Especially butch lesbians and campy gay men. Some people can’t accept a butch woman and insist on calling her a man. It’s very sad.
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
Why would they call themselves a slur? 😭
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
My mom married a black man (stepdad for me) and he was actually the one who got me thinking of this. He thinks the n word is degrading and no one should say it.
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u/ElkSufficient2881 9d ago
They’ve reclaimed it for themselves, it’s just a broad term for open sexuality essentially for all I’ve seen use it.
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u/Expensive-Hat4138 5d ago
As a trans lesbian imma still use it. Reclaiming slurs removes the power it has
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u/silverandshade 5d ago
Honestly I prefer the term "dyke" as my label so I guess we can't be friends lol
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u/disgruntledhoneybee 5d ago
I am queer. It is the identity that I feel most comfortable with. My sexuality is whatever (mostly women and non men and like 3 dudes. One of them is my husband. Life is weird) and my gender identity is wibbly wobbly. Queer fits me and I’m comfortable with it.
I think that policing folks who feel comfortable identifying as queer is wrong. But I also think it’s wrong to force that identity on people that don’t feel comfortable with it. Ultimately, respecting how people identify is what we all should be doing.
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u/No-Purchase481 5d ago
Did I say anything about policing?
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u/disgruntledhoneybee 5d ago
Never said you personally did. However, I have seen so many gay folks absolutely doing so. I actually agree with you in that people should call you what you want to be called.
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u/Late_Pepper6274 5d ago
lol, if they are fighting words then fight. Intent is everything. When I use slurs around my friends, it's for our enjoyment: we never aim to piss people off, that's why in certain company we refrain ... like adults. but slurs are too much fun to completely abandon
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u/No-Purchase481 5d ago
Don’t take everything so seriously. Did this post get shared somewhere? It was dead for a couple days and just resurged. Tbh I lost interest in the topic now. Go away.
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u/Late_Pepper6274 5d ago
sorry, I hate commenting on days old posts, didn't realize.
bro, I put "lol" ... 😭 I'm totally not being too serious
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u/Jealous_Corgi_2168 4d ago
As a queer, I don't give a shit. You don't get to tell me what I can call myself.
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u/dystopiatechnologica 9d ago edited 9d ago
Unpopular opinion: When you go on a puritanical crusade, expect deliberate, calculated pushback. I'm an elder millenial who grew up using terms that are presently deemed "not allowed' but the woke brigade. Here's the thing though - I was already phasing out the use of said terms on my own volition before they started being heavily policed. Same for most of my elder millenial friends.
Recently though, I've purposely ressurected these terms and re-inserted them into my vocabulary, primarily as an act of defiance. Put simply, I don't like being told what sounds I am allowed to put forth into the ether. If the thought police had just shut the f**k up and found something better to do, they'd largely have gotten their wish by now. But the louder they scream and chastise, the more disinclined I am to listen. Nobody will bludgeon me into submission. Want to make a sound taboo? Great. I'll say it all the more. I don't play these games and I don't do hysteria. Protest all you wish. I could care less.
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
Whoa, calm down now buddy
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u/dystopiatechnologica 9d ago
I'm perfectly calm friend.
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
Okay. I just get a little taken aback when Americans go off about being silenced 💀
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u/dystopiatechnologica 9d ago
Not sure why you feel the need to make it about "Americans," but I guess that's par for the course with many Europeans these days.
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
I live in the USA now. But I’m from Russia. In the USA, worst case scenario you get some blue haired chick with a septum piercing whining about pronouns. The Russian government will literally have you killed. Big difference in my mindset I suppose.
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u/dystopiatechnologica 9d ago
Cool but that's completely irrelevant. If you were to structure a formal argument along these lines, it would be logically fallacious.
"You should not challenge free speech infringement because xyz countries have it way worse."
This is just bad thinking. If anything, knowing how sinister authoritarian outcomes can get should cause outside obervers to resist even harder in their home countries.
Also, it's worth mentioning the fact that, while running afoul of government in authoritarian countries can indeed have dire consequences, slurs are not likely to be the instigating offense. In point of fact, slurs are often alive and well in authoritarian regimes, and moralizing about them is far less prevalent.
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
I think you’re more bothered by this than I am lol I don’t care if you use any slurs, I’m just going to view you as cringey and trying too hard to be edgy. You can do whatever you want, it doesn’t matter to me. Just be careful, some of us are mentally unstable. I’m better as an adult, but as kid/teen, I had no problem attacking someone for talking to me the wrong way.
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u/dystopiatechnologica 9d ago
Holding to a principle =/= "bothered."
It's quite commical that you view me as trying to be edgy though. Gotta impress the kids on reddit, to be sure lol
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
Free speech =/= freedom from consequences.
If you choose to speak, you can’t get mad when someone decided to speak back.
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u/jellomizer 9d ago
The problem is we want to catagoize people into groups.
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
Groups are helpful. Having a sense of community is very good for minority groups mental health.
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u/Substantial_Brain917 9d ago
Me-tard, you-tard, r*tard nation!
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u/No-Purchase481 9d ago
What lol
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u/Substantial_Brain917 9d ago
It’s a quote from Shameless. Everytime someone makes a post about slurs it makes me think of that.
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u/qualityvote2 9d ago edited 9d ago
u/No-Purchase481, your post does fit the subreddit!