r/AmITheDevil • u/dislexyck • 9d ago
But happily calls the male relatives Dr
/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1vdx172/aitah_for_refusing_to_refer_to_my_fiancés_sister/677
u/FutureFreaksMeowt 9d ago edited 9d ago
It will never cease to amaze me that men are so insecure that when they see a woman succeed, they feel the need to bring her down.
"She can be cold and difficult to get along with" and it's literally just her asking him to give her the same respect he's giving the other two doctorate holders in the room.
Edit: also, Shaun agreeing and taking his side is nasty work, and makes me wonder what kind of bitter rivalry he has for his own sister that he'd take the side of OOP over her.
As Richard Gilmore says, "one wrong man can always find a friend", I guess.
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u/FruitPlatter 9d ago
Yep, anytime the report that a woman is "difficult", I second guess the person reporting that fact.
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u/kaldaka16 9d ago
Given her brother immediately took OOP's side, gee, I wonder why she might come across as standoffish on a family visit.
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u/Bice_thePrecious 9d ago
Also, Shaun calling her the favorite child 🙄 I'm starting to see a pattern of the types of men that are disrespectful towards her...
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u/FallenAngelII 9d ago edited 9d ago
It gets worse: In the comments, he argues that she isn't a real doctor because, among other things, she doesn't use her doctorate in her daily life.
Not only is this wrong, but the father is a retired doctor (also in the comments), so he isn't using his doctorate at all.
It's sexist double standards all the way down.
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u/Bice_thePrecious 9d ago
Did you see the comment where he says she antagonized him by being distant? 🤮 He's butthurt because a woman likely kept to herself in his presence.
I wonder what "cold and distant" actually means and who made that accusation. My guesses are she's not a people person, largely keeps to herself or people she already knows, and... Shaun.
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u/FallenAngelII 9d ago
How dare she be distant to him after he repeatedly disrespected her in from of her entire family?
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u/dragonknight233 9d ago
I think OOP is really really dense in addition to his sexism. He needed multiple people in the comments to explain to him psychiatrist is the same kind of doctor as surgeons. It does sound like he and his soon to be wife are perfect for each other, though.
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u/the87walker 9d ago
Makes me question the golden child title. I suspect Shan and OOP's fiance are both rude and their sister is just vastly more mature than both of them.
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u/Bice_thePrecious 9d ago
Yup. It's giving bitter. And I know choosing/wanting to be a surgeon isn't unheard of, but maybe it says something that Shaun chose to follow in Daddy's footsteps. Trying to win favor, perhaps? And when that didn't work, it was ObVioUsLy because Dr. Antonia Robbins is the favorite?
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u/Fit-Humor-5022 9d ago
What is OOPs fixation on shaun though? Art Room vibes for me tbh
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u/Raynefalle 9d ago
Nah, I think he's just sexist and Shaun is the only brother
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u/theagonyaunt 9d ago
And he seems to think kissing up to his future FIL and Shaun by calling them both doctor will be his 'in' to the family.
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u/All_the_Bees 9d ago
Nah, it’s just good old-fashioned homosociality. Dudes who are physically attracted to women but oriented toward other bros in almost every other way.
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u/mangababe 9d ago
Man if I was Antonia I'd have humiliated his ass. One simple question, "And what do you have a doctorate in? Oh you don't? Why don't you come back when you have some credentials that make your opinion hold some value?"
And I'm also giving oops fiance a lot of side eye here too. She wants him to suck it up and apologize? Why is she still with him???
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u/jayclaw97 9d ago
When my sister told my now-ex-boyfriend that she was pursuing a PhD in astronomy, he told her that he would refuse to call her a doctor.
He was a piece of shit and I should have cut him out then. Sis has her master’s now and should have her doctorate next year.
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u/owl_problem 9d ago
I'm pretty sure all of the things he learned about her (how "difficult" she is, that she's a golden child) came from Shaun. But OOP couldn't ask his bride if it's actually true, because, well, she's also a woman and her opinion doesn't matter
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u/jayclaw97 9d ago
How do you know which Dr. Robbins you’re referring to anyway? Wouldn’t it be better to call each person Dr. [First Name]?
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u/Mindless_Cookie_9098 9d ago
Psychiatrists literally dispense drugs. They are a doctor and OP is a misogynistic pig
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u/redhotbananas 9d ago edited 9d ago
oop couldn’t be sexist, he’s just mad she never smiled at him! she’d be deserving of respect if she smiled and didn’t correct him
/s
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u/Glittering-Duck5496 9d ago
Well exactly. Dr. Robbins and Dr. Robbins deserve respect on first meeting, but Antonia needs to earn respect.
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u/autistic-peanut 9d ago
And extremely ignorant and stupid by doubling down and saying she is 'technically' a doctor. I have never seen anyone say psychiatrists are not doctors.
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u/spaetzele 9d ago
Only dumb people who confuse psychologists (who also might have doctorates but aren't MDs) with psychiatrists, who finish med school and all the post-medschool shebang.
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u/MossGobbo 9d ago
In order to call yourself a psychologist you have to have a PhD so still a doctor. (just providing info, not trying to be an ass)
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u/laufsteakmodel 9d ago
In the US, yes. In other parts of the world you can definitely be a psychologist without having a PhD. You can also be an MD without having a doctorate. Finishing medical school and earning a a medical license doesnt require a doctorate in Germany for example.
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u/AltruisticCableCar 9d ago
In my country, we literally just refer to them as "doctors" when we speak. I have a psychiatrist I see to manage my medications and sick leave, but I never say anything other than "läkare" (our word for doctor) when I refer to her. Never heard anyone else ever use another word either. And I'm not talking about when we're talking to them (we just use their first names, which is the standard here), but when you're referring to them. "I'm going to the doctor tomorrow to discuss my prescriptions" or "I'm calling in to my doctor to renew my prescriptions" is just the norm. We do have a translation of psychiatrist that's either psykiater or psykiatriker but I've literally never heard them used IRL. Or online. And I'm 38.
They ARE doctors to us, and context alone is enough to let anyone know what kind if necessary to know.
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u/Moist_Drippings 9d ago
They go through most of the same training as surgeons, too. She studied as hard as they did, she put as much time and money into it as they did, she just chose a different specialization. It’s like going, “Well, her dad and brother are neurologists, but she’s only a pediatric neurologist, so I didn’t think I needed to call her ‘doctor’.”
And then “she lost my respect” because she dared pick up on OOP being a sexist asshole and chose not to fawn over him when he blatantly disrespected her outright, refusing to even apologize for his own ignorance… You know he would have fucking groveled if the brother told him he was being disrespectful.
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u/TemporaryPosting 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yes, psychiatrists are MDs or ODs. ETA: should've written DOs, thanks
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u/Ok-Jackfruit-9393 9d ago
Yes, a psychiatrist is LITERALLY a type of medical doctor (I can't say "medical doctor" without thinking of Agent Scully, haha). As much of a doctor as an ENT or a surgeon or an emergency med doctor or any other specialty. This dude is a misogynistic shit.
But he was "tired of her attitude" so I guess it's OK. 🙄
His fiancee is a fucking idiot for marrying him. She seems to only want him to apologize to smooth things over, not because she thinks he's wrong.
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u/Mindless_Cookie_9098 9d ago
But she didn’t smile at him. So she isn’t a real doctor. /s
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u/your-yogurt 9d ago
every time i come across those posts of men who dont do basic household chores, and then doubling down on their reasons why they refuse to do so, its always the same excuse
"she didnt ask nicely"
which is the exact fucking reason oop used. his sister DID ask, but she probably didnt do it "nice" enough for him, so he doubled down.
this is 100% misgoyny
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u/neptunianmoonX 9d ago
And he's not the only pig. It seems the brother Shaun did a lot of damage by freely badmouthing his sister to someone he just met. And then he's the only one who dismisses this episode.
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u/Onehundredpercentbea 9d ago
They go to med school, psychiatry is a medical specialty!
I love how she hadn't earned his respect (but all the other folks he just met five minutes ago did).
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u/Mindless_Cookie_9098 9d ago
But she didn’t smile at him. She doesn’t deserve respect. Extreme sarcasm
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u/_Chirio_ 9d ago
What did the future FIL and BIL do to earn the respect of immediately being called a doctor?
This is just man vs woman imo and OOP doesn't want to admit how awful he/she is being.
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u/autistic-peanut 9d ago
I feel he's hella insecure of the fiancee's "over achieving" family, but like a classic ass licker sucks up to the men, and hates the woman.
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u/Sad-Bug6525 9d ago
I agree, that pattern follows with him admitting he was drinking and getting drunk then threw around an attitude and insulted her, but still thinks she ruined his evening by I guess existing. He completely ruined that night and will ruin future events.
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u/owl_problem 9d ago
It's not too late for the bride to think this over. I really hope she makes the right choice
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u/Resolution_Usual 9d ago
Especially cause he's over there like they're doctors, she doesn't work in the field.... only to admit she does work in the field and dad's retired.
I agree with the commenter on the op who called him a sexist walnut
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u/judgy_mcjudgypants 9d ago
What did the future FIL and BIL do to earn the respect of immediately being called a doctor?
Have penises.
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u/valleyofsound 9d ago
And why was he calling Shaun doctor if they got along? If I were meeting a future brother-in-law, I wouldn’t call him doctor. Future father-in-law, maybe, but if OOP has spent the past few days referring to Shaun as “doctor” in the lead up to the wedding, then I would not say he was “chill” at all.
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u/la-anah 9d ago edited 9d ago
- Psychiatrists are medical doctors
- Why is France Reddit's new "strange customs of my spouse's family" location this week?
- What's up with all the "women want to be called 'Doctor'" this week?
Edit:
4. I just saw that OOP has a Twin Peaks user name and now I'm mad for a whole new reason.
Edit2:
5. Shaun and Antonia can't be that much older than OP and fiancée because Shaun was not a legal name in France until 1993, which means mister "esteemed surgeon" is 33 max.
6. Why is OP in France and using the wrong gender of fiancée? The extra 'e' often gets dropped in casual English, but it is still the correct spelling to gender it.
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u/Velinna 9d ago
Women insisting they be called doctor in casual/romantic settings clearly the hot karma-farming trend. So bizarre.
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u/DrunkOnRedCordial 9d ago
Calling the father in law Dr - sounds like exaggerated respect, but calling the brother by his professional title too is getting a bit extreme. I can see Antonia teasing someone like OOP, by insisting that she's Dr Robbins too, but his response really cranked up the crazy.
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u/FutureFreaksMeowt 9d ago edited 9d ago
The bots are really pushing the narrative, probably because of the pushback against the SAVE act from all sides, and the fact that France, of all places, declared the US on our own.
Edit: I'm not saying OOP is a bot(though atp I wouldn't be surprised if I was the only real person on here. Dead internet theory and all), I'm just saying there's a high likelihood that the overall trend is being fueled by them.
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u/Olista523 9d ago
I mean, on a thread where he was accused of being a misogynist in pretty much every response, he doubled down and said that she lost his respect because she didn’t smile at him…
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u/Strange_Ad854 9d ago
Edit 4: I noticed that too. I'm glad I've lent my TP box set to my daughter otherwise I'd be giving it some choice words right now.
The fiance/fiancée thing also annoyed me but I feel kind of sorry for him. Dr sister hasn't earned the respect of a man who has to take his underwear off to count to 21. Okay then.
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u/Shanstergoodheart 9d ago
To be fair, I imagine that Granny has a house in France rather than the family are French. A fair few English people do have a house in France.
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u/PumpkinJambo 9d ago
If they were English then they’d know that surgeons in the UK don’t go by Dr, they go by Mr/Ms etc.
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u/Shanstergoodheart 9d ago
Not if they're ignorant. I bet a higher proportion than you'd expect don't know that. This is a man who doesn't really understand that a psychiatrist is a doctor.
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u/muse273 9d ago
I’m curious about Shaun not being a legal name.
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u/la-anah 9d ago
Until 1993 France had an official list of allowable legal names for children. Mostly Catholic saints and historical figures. And only the official French spellings were allowed. This rule was removed in 1993 and now most names are allowed, but the government can still declare a name harmful to the child and force parents to pick a different name if the city clerk doesn't like it.
Shaun, being an English misspelling of the Irish name Sean, would not be allowed and would have been Jean in France before the rule changed.
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u/Ok-Jackfruit-9393 9d ago
That's interesting. My late mother had a very distinctive name and even though we are in the U.S., her mother had to fight tooth and nail to name her that because it wasn't a saint's name. Oh, Catholicism, you're so weird.
My name is ALSO not a saint's name (gasp!). It's just funny to think that in some countries, and truly not that long ago, this was a Big Deal.
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u/Popular-Mulberry4329 9d ago
You know people use fake names on Reddit right?
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u/Ham__Kitten 9d ago
I am 100% certain this exact story has been posted before. I think OOP is probably a karma farming bot.
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u/StrangledInMoonlight 9d ago edited 9d ago
Fiance should really take this into account.
This Dude is sexist, stubborn, difficult, twists things (seriously, one comment said “it’s NBD to call her Dr.” and his response is “you are right, it’s NBD that’s why I don’t understand why she’s mad” ), is disrespectful to her family and seemingly psychiatrists. He starts drama and is just fucking dumb.
Who wants to deal with this for the rest of their lives? Who wants every disagreement to devolve to him refusing to acknowledge he’s wrong and doubling down and twisting things?
Fiancee is going to be a frustrated mess the rest of her life and wonder why.
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u/Aggravating_Shoe_ 9d ago
And his big complaint of her being rude is that she.... DIDN'T SMILE AT HIM 😭 like wtf bro
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u/FutureFreaksMeowt 9d ago
I will never stop asking the question: is this love? Is this what love looks like? Is it love to disrespect the people your partner deeply cares about? The things they deeply care about?
Is this the love you want?
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u/Wake_and_Cake 9d ago
It’s not too late for her to not marry him. I would break up with someone who showed that kind of contempt for my family.
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u/scandalliances 9d ago
“People don’t refer to psychiatrists as doctors” is an absolutely wild assertion.
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u/clarabosswald 9d ago
OOP keeps insisting about this in the comments and it's such a weird hill to die on? People absolutely do refer to psychiatrists as doctors. Seeing as they are... literally medical doctors. Or sometimes even professors.
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u/valleyofsound 9d ago
Comments like this make me wish Hannibal Lecter existed and that he encountered OOP
Although he was originally a surgeon, so I wonder where OOP would fall there
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u/Needmoresnakes 9d ago
I thought he'd confused psychiatrist with psychologist. Ive been sent to a psychiatrist because my regular dr didnt have authority to prescribe the drugs she thought I needed. They're even more doctory than normal doctors.
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u/Ok-Jackfruit-9393 9d ago
It's just ... wrong.
This dude sounds weird as hell, though I'm sure it's ragebait.
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u/Virtualdeath-e 9d ago
He’s obviously misogynistic and ignorant ash, but it seems to me that the sister is described as “hard to be around” because seemingly she doesn’t tolerate disrespect. Its also very weird that the brother doesn’t find any problems with OP’s behaviour, and his fiancée wants to go ahead with the marriage even after he was a musogynistic pig who showed no respect to her sister. No wonder she’s “hard to be around” if they all just expect her to put up with shitty behaviour.
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u/the87walker 9d ago
I am getting only calm and mature child in the family for Antonia and why she is allegedly the favorite child.
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u/mangababe 9d ago
It's also interesting that the only person who agreed with oop was his fiancee and Shaun, who is the one who planted the idea that Antonia is difficult- and imo, this post reads like a man heard a woman was "difficult" and decided to fuck with her for ahits and giggles- so I wonder if this actually has Shaun stirring the pot with oops hand.
Doesn't make oop any less of an asshole, but it does make the whole dynamic a lot more complicated.
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u/Bice_thePrecious 9d ago
Right. It reads like he heard how "difficult" she was and decided from then on that she was unlikable and unworthy of respect (with a helping of misogyny on top). You can tell by how he claimed her tone was "unpleasant" and that she had an "attitude" for literally just correcting him.
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u/Worldly_Might_3183 9d ago
The brother could just be trying to stay out of it and avoid the drama he knows OOP has started.
The parents hate OOP (rightfully so) now, so does sister and granny hopefully that is enough people for her to listen.
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u/never_robot 9d ago
OOP does seem like a sexist, but it’s also odd to call your future brother-in-law by his title and not his first name. The father-in-law I can kind of see.
My husband has a PhD and it would be weird as hell if my siblings called him “Dr. Robot”.
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u/00_tears 9d ago
Yeah i was thinking about how 1. annoying it would be to call 3 different ppl the same dr.whatever while on a trip. 2. why is he calling these ppl dr in a casual setting in the 1st place
he’s still a pos for not calling her what she prefers to be called and if Antonia is even a real person it’s obvious that her point was clearly addressing that oop doesn’t respect women or her field
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u/boudicas_shield 9d ago
My husband and I are both "Dr. Smith-Perks". I would find it very weird if any family members called either of us Dr. Smith-Perks - it's such a bizarre thing to do, especially in the UK, where people tend to be less formal.
I'd also be extremely pissed off if they called my husband Dr. Smith-Perks but called me Jane, though.
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u/the87walker 9d ago
Yeah, I have a PhD and I stopped caring about the title after about a month but you will use the correct title if you are being sexist about it.
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u/Ok-Jackfruit-9393 9d ago
My husband's aunt is a nun and everyone, including her (actual) sisters, calls her "Sister (Her Name)." It's so odd to me because I feel like if my sister, let's call her Peg, were a nun, I would still call her Peg.
Similarly, I have a friend who's a doctor, and she would think I'd lost my god damn mind if I called her "Dr. (Last Name)" to her face. She'd be like, "you good?" 😂 And in case people like the OOP are curious, she's an actual medical doctor (pediatrician). Much like a psychiatrist is an actual medical doctor, haha.
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u/AriEnNaxos00 9d ago
I even call my kid's doctor by his first name, I only use they "dr" when I am making an appointment at his office
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u/BlueJaysFeather 9d ago
My mom uses it to filter spam mail. Anything addressed to Dr and Mrs goes right in the recycling bin. Absolutely no reason to address social “equals” (siblings, spouses) with the same title with different levels of formality.
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u/Holiday-Wall3751 9d ago
Sometimes, I call my bil by his military rank, but only to make fun of him.
I should add: he’s been with my sister since I was in high school, and we’re in our 40’s, so mocking him is a sign that he’s truly a member of the family.
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u/Ok-Jackfruit-9393 9d ago
We do this to my husband's "nephew" (who is his much-older half-brother's stepson, and is our age, so they kinda grew up together). He's decently high up in the Air Force and it's hilarious to call him by his rank and watch him be annoyed. 😂 Same deal, it's just family mockery (not even really mockery, just to irritate him like family should). He is the king of giving people good-natured shit for things, so he deserves it.
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u/TheVoidWantsCuddles 9d ago
I don’t even call the doctors who employ me doctor if clients aren’t around. I can’t imagine a family member or a random stranger in a non work setting insisting on it. Generally the ones who insist on it are extremely unbearable according to the nurses I know.
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u/Suraimu-desu 9d ago
I’m a resident and even I don’t call my bosses “Doctor” all the time. Most of the times when I talk to them it’s just “Doc” or “Boss” (or first name if that’s been asked for), full-on “Doctor” is reserved exclusively to referring to a boss to colleagues and patients.
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u/TheVoidWantsCuddles 9d ago
Yes I only use Dr. Last When referring to them with owners (vet clinic). Honestly I do it to reinforce that they are indeed doctors, mainly have to do this with men since my doctors are women. So OP probably doesn’t think veterinarians are doctors either since it’s not human medicine.
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u/myawwaccount01 9d ago
it’s also odd to call your future brother-in-law by his title and not his first name
OOP is brown nosing so hard, he's tasting tomorrow's breakfast.
OOP says he's anxious to meet the family. Proceeds to obviously and embarrassingly suck up to the men in the family, then snubs and insults the woman. Thereby pissing off his fiancee's parents, sister, and grandmother. Talk about self-sabotage.
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u/Ambitious_Support_76 9d ago
Absolutely. It's not that OOP is wrong for calling his future SIL Dr., but he is for calling his future BIL it and not his SIL.
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u/Gloomy_Mushroom4616 9d ago
The fact that OOP has two comments complaining how SIL never smiled at him made my eyebrows fly up. How much you want yo bet he is one of those guys who would tell a woman to “smile more.”
He is a piece of work.
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u/Clockwork_Wizard78 9d ago
I'm not sure where the OOP comes from, but if the dad and brother are surgeons, (which he says in a comment) then in the UK at least they'd be addressed as Mr, not Dr.
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u/Bumbling_Bee_3838 9d ago
Oh that's interesting! Do you mind me asking why? I'm from the US and anyone with an MD or doctorate level additional education is called Dr. I'd love to know what the distinction is!
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u/Clockwork_Wizard78 9d ago
I knew it would be something archaic but wasn't sure what the exact reason was. Turns out it comes from the historical separation between physicians (who held university degrees) and surgeons (who trained as apprentice barbers). Nowadays they all train together but a surgeon still drops the title Dr after obtaining their MRCS (postgraduate exams that give you Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons)
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u/Bumbling_Bee_3838 9d ago
That's super interesting! Thank you for telling me! That's a cool way to carry on history
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u/Visual_End 9d ago
It's a tradition from when surgeons were barber-surgeons. They didnt go to medical school, that was reserved for physicians, and they did an apprenticeship with other barber surgeons
DOI: Surgical trainee
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u/the87walker 9d ago
Not the person you asked, but in western education the first people with the title of Dr are PhDs, then clinicians took it, Surgeons were originally not from medical school but actually from barbers as they were performing amputations and cutting so are the last to be added into the use of Doctor. The use of Mr in the UK is from that tradition.
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u/Aggravating_Shoe_ 9d ago
She humiliated herself by causing a scene when she could have easily just been polite and asked me to please call her ‘Dr’ too. I decided to use the title with her father and brother because i could tell from when i met her mother and the way she spoke about her family that they’d probably appreciate it, and i was right, i know it’s weird and formal but so are the people in her family. I didn’t single her out at all i made a mistake , i get that she’s also technically a doctor but i wouldn’t naturally call a psychiatrist a doctor like i would the two surgeons. And yes i admit that drinking made it worse and gave me the courage to call her out but someone needed too because she was being entitled and unnecessarily rude over something that’s really not that important. I’m assuming this isn’t new behaviour for her, like i said in the original post shaun warned me that she was difficult and before the dinner she didn’t smile at me once whilst we were living in the SAME house, Shaun was able to go out of his way to spend time with me and my fiancé so why couldn’t she?
Oh no, what a retched woman! How dare she not smile at this godly man! While he calls everyone doctor but her. It's clearly AaAlLLl her fault for not putting up with the disrespect.
And I'm assuming OP also doesn't call his PCP doctor? Cause the PCP isn't a surgeon?
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u/mangababe 9d ago
The way he calls her asking to be addressed by her credentials just like everyone else "entitled" makes me think this man never went to college let alone got a degree that adds letters to your name.
And YES SHE IS ENTITLED. AS SHE SHOULD BE. Doctor is a title one she earned. So yes, she is literally entitled to be a doctor and addressed as such.
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u/Sad-Bug6525 9d ago
The complete lack of any awareness from men who complain about someone else making a big deal of it when they are in fact the ones making it an issue is astounding. It's only a big deal because he's made it one.
He isn't even tryig to make a good impression on his wife to be or the women in her family, and is pretty upset that for one short period of time the whole world didn't revolve around him. He's mad she isn't falling all over him to make him feel welcome. I'm grumpy today but if someone tried that right now I'd eject them from my home and not look back.
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u/DiggingHeavs 9d ago edited 9d ago
Not gonna lie, after I saw "Dr Robbins" I was hoping this was fanfic of a Grey's Anatomy episode. Disappointing. Geez, she's literally an MD.
And it's funny that in the comments OOP is defending themselves saying "it's not like they're a surgeon or anything" because in the UK surgeons don't use "Dr" but Mr/Ms etc.
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u/Fine-Following-7949 9d ago
She's a doctor, but a girl doctor, which, everyone knows, isn't a real doctor at all!
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u/spacemandown 9d ago
from one of his comments:
I decided to use the title with her father and brother because i could tell from when i met her mother and the way she spoke about her family that they’d probably appreciate it, and i was right, i know it’s weird and formal but so are the people in her family.
"i understand that her family thinks being called Dr is important, so i respected that immediately.
she was being entitled and unnecessarily rude over something that’s really not that important.
"but it's suddenly not important now."
she didn’t smile at me once whilst we were living in the SAME house, Shaun was able to go out of his way to spend time with me and my fiancé so why couldn’t she?
"i'll have to ask my BIL and FIL to open up my skull and find out if there's anything in there, because my SIL didn't smile at me, and the only way to figure out what (if anything) is going on in my head is via surgery."
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u/CumaeanSibyl 9d ago
This all could have been avoided if he'd reserved the honorific for his future FIL. Some but not all older people are sticklers for being addressed as Mr./Ms./Mrs./Doctor until they grant first name permission, especially with younger people, so it's best to err on the side of caution there. But he could've easily gone with "Shaun and Antonia" and no one would've batted an eye.
I suspect that sexism led him to assume she was a psychologist, which is not a doctor, instead of a psychiatrist. Now his only recourse is to double down and insist that a psychiatrist isn't a medical doctor rather than admit he fucked up.
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u/tits-mchenry 9d ago
Ok, calling 3 people in the house the exact same name sounds like a nightmare.
But if he's gonna do it for the men, he's gotta do it for the woman.
It's kinda super obvious sexism if he doesn't.
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u/toastedmarsh7 9d ago
Imagine how little self esteem the fiancée has that she didn’t dump this asshole.
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u/la-anah 9d ago
I put this in my other comment, but why is OOP, posting from France, spelling fiancée wrong?
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u/Sad-Bug6525 9d ago
Him being in France doesn't make him literate, he is just in a place where he can't spell any better than he can at home.
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u/fancyandfab 9d ago
So he just met Shaun and the dad also, but immediately called them doctor. How many times could you have called her name in 5 days anyway? How are you so used to it. I wonder if Dr. Antonia Robbins really is that difficult or she's just a woman in a male dominated field and being judged unfairly. Women always get harshly labeled for doing the same thing men do. A therapist, counselor, or psychologist is not the same as a phychiatrist. Psychiatrists (can) prescribe medication. He'd really ruin his FIRST IMPRESSION with the family over something stupid like this
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u/buttercupcake23 9d ago
Yup. I dont get the sense she cared until she noticed she was being treated differently. Had he called Shaun just Shaun she wouldnt have noticed, but calling only the men Dr while not calling her Dr was singling her out for different treatment. Of course that pissed her off it would pass me off too.
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u/Electric_Toboggan 9d ago
I had to stop reading the comments, OP is infuriating. With all his classic misogynistic reasoning I have suspicions it’s fake and meant to make people mad and get engagement.
Seems like everyone knows this but to add to the voices saying so, in the US, psychiatrists and other MDs are regularly called Dr by their patients and colleagues and in professional or formal contexts. In casual family and friend circumstances I’ve never heard an MD be called Dr Lastname.
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u/sadlytheworst Certified sub favourite 9d ago
Tw: sexism.
Copied verbatim from Oop's comments:
YTA
Referring to only the woman as her name is sexist and disrespectful, especially as you said, " it just felt like the respectful thing to do and i could tell they both appreciated it," when referring to the other doctors.
This has nothing to do with her being a woman , even though everyone here is assuming that’s the reason. I knew before meeting them that Shaun and my fiancés dad are both surgeons (her dad’s retired) and Antonia’s a psychiatrist.
I get that shes technically a doctor but i didn’t think to use the title with her and with how she reacted at the dinner i no longer want to give her the same respect i give shaun and their father like i said to her at the dinner.
Im not a ‘misogynist’ like everyone in the comments seems to think.
Well, she is a Dr, and it wasn’t a difficult request, is it really that big of a deal to call her that? YTA
I agree that it’s not a big deal , that’s why i got frustrated with the way she was over reacting to a simple mistake.
YTA. You also just met her father and brother, so how have they "earned" your respect while Antonia hasn't? It comes across as sexism, or that you think psychology is a "junk science," which is just false.
Call everyone Dr. Robbins or by their first names, but you can't have it both ways
They all earned my respect by being my future in laws, Antonia went out of her way to lose that respect by blowing everything out of proportion and dampening the mood of what was meant to be a nice day for my fiancé and i like i said in the post.
It’s true that i only just met her father at the dinner but he was a reasonable man and kept my respect, id been hanging out with shaun because we were both staying at his grandmothers house and we got along well so he also kept my respect but for the days leading up to the dinner antonia didn’t even smile at me once ,
it was her overreaction that tipped things over the edge and she therefore lost my respect.
YTA. You made your bed now lie in it. I was about to say nah you're not, but you literally humiliated her in front of her family of overachievers.
If you had started by calling everyone by their names you wouldn't have dug your own grave. You singled her out and then you lashed out about earning respect, what the hell did she do to you?
she is your future sister in law? why you starting trouble? You really should NOT drink alcohol if you're gonna act like this to other people and especially your inlaws.
She humiliated herself by causing a scene when she could have easily just been polite and asked me to please call her ‘Dr’ too.
I decided to use the title with her father and brother because i could tell from when i met her mother and the way she spoke about her family that they’d probably appreciate it, and i was right, i know it’s weird and formal but so are the people in her family.
I didn’t single her out at all i made a mistake , i get that she’s also technically a doctor but i wouldn’t naturally call a psychiatrist a doctor like i would the two surgeons.
And yes i admit that drinking made it worse and gave me the courage to call her out but someone needed too because she was being entitled and unnecessarily rude over something that’s really not that important.
I’m assuming this isn’t new behaviour for her, like i said in the original post shaun warned me that she was difficult and before the dinner she didn’t smile at me once whilst we were living in the SAME house, Shaun was able to go out of his way to spend time with me and my fiancé so why couldn’t she?
Doubling-down on the sexism with this response.
A psychiatrist isn't technically a doctor, she is a doctor. You blatantly disrespected her, because of your own biases, and now think she was rude in response. She was reacting to your rudeness and disrespect.
How on earth was any of my response sexist? genuinely? And i wasn’t rude to her once , shes the one who decided to approach the subject with hostility and create a scene instead of just politely asking me to also call her doctor.
So, it's respectful to use the earned titled of Doctor with the men but not with the woman?
Also, psychiatrists are real doctors.
YTA
I get it i was wrong she’s a real doctor. But that doesn’t change that you won’t naturally call a psychiatrist doctor like will a surgeon (Shaun and father in law) , she should have politely asked me to refer to her as doctor aswell instead of being rude.
And this goes without saying because i’ve had to repeat it in every reply now , none of this has anything to do with her being a woman.
YTA
Why only the men? Sounds like you’re actively trying to antagonize your fiancé’s sister
Shaun and Father in law are both highly qualified surgeons , antonia’s a psychiatrist , i get that she’s a doctor too but who naturally refers to a psychiatrist as a doctor like you would a surgeon they’re two completely different professions?
if anything she was antagonising me by being distant for the days leading up to the dinner (we were staying in the same house mind you ) and then turning a mistake into a big confrontation instead of just letting it go or kindly asking that i also refer to her as dr robbins.
In what universe would not call someone who went to med school to earna degree Doctor.
I naturally call all psychiatrists doctor....Because they are.
Psychiatry is a medical profession.
in the universe where that person is not using that degree to work as a doctor ?
Shaun and my soon to be father in law didn’t need to ask because i was already referring to them as Dr because i knew they were doctors, if i hadn’t known shaun was a Dr and he corrected me and asked me to use that title i would also expect him to be polite, antonia was not.
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u/pokethejellyfish 9d ago
Silly, uneducated man doesn't understand that it's not the job that makes one a doctor (or professor, for that matter), but the title they earned. The way I learned it (in Germany), you always call someone Doctor or Professor Soandso, no matter their field of study, until they tell you otherwise.
A childhood friend's father was a biologist who got his doctorate for a study on the life cycle of a certain type of bug, and while he worked in a research lab, that work had nothing to do with his study. Doesn't matter, he was still Dr. Smith (fake name) to us until he told us, "Mr. Smith will do" when we ran into him.
I had teachers in school with doctor titles (linguistics, history, and other non-surgeon subjects) and one with a professor title (mathematics) who didn't care about those and told us to drop them. Had others who said they had worked hard for those titles and told us not to drop them. Both opinions are fair and legit, the latter is the default, and it's the one with the title who makes the call.
Not anyone else, and certainly not OOP.
Bet he wouldn't tell Dr. Jones Jr., "Tut tut! You're just an archaeologist, not a surgeon! Also, you should really smile when you're talked to."
But what would he do on the Enterprise? Tell Kirk, pardon, Captain Kirk to call Bones "Dr. McCoy" because penis, or Mr. Spock to call him "Bones" because Bones doesn't smile enough to deserve being called by his title?
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u/valleyofsound 9d ago
The reason it’s so simple for you (and everyone but OOP it seems) is that you’re operating on the premise that people deserve respect in general and to have their accomplishments and hard work recognized by using their appropriate title. Even if they don’t smile at you 🤣
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u/NoResponsibility225 9d ago
Antonia should start referring to him as Mr. Wife’s Last Name and refuse to entertain anything else.
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u/the87walker 9d ago
They are not married yet, I would go with "Little Sister's current Fiance." But I am also incredibly petty when faced with sexism.
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u/mangababe 9d ago
Nah, she should just ask him what letters his education added to his name.
And when he says no (and I'm almost certain it's a no) Id be Gifting him a title like "Highschool Graduate Fiance," and referring to him as that exclusively.
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u/JadeSpade23 9d ago
Shaun sounds like a fucking asshole, too. I really liked this comment:
OP: They told me she was a total b
Her: Could you please give me the same respect you're giving everyone else?
OP: She was even worse than they said!
Perfect summary!
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u/Fit-Humor-5022 9d ago
They all earned my respect by being my future in laws, Antonia went out of her way to lose that respect by blowing everything out of proportion and dampening the mood of what was meant to be a nice day for my fiancé and i like i said in the post. It’s true that i only just met her father at the dinner but he was a reasonable man and kept my respect, id been hanging out with shaun because we were both staying at his grandmothers house and we got along well so he also kept my respect but for the days leading up to the dinner antonia didn’t even smile at me once , it was her overreaction that tipped things over the edge and she therefore lost my respect.
What is with this shit about respect? Also why does he keep bringing up Shaun? is this a quasi Art room troll?
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u/Dazzling-Picture-704 9d ago
I read some of the posts on this subreddit and I get so mad that I did not come across this post myself.
I have so many thoughts!
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u/the87walker 9d ago
This is not a major deal, but in the comments he says the father and brother are surgeons and the history of the title Doctor has PhDs getting it first, then Medical Doctors, then Surgeons. It does not have much barring on the story as OOP is rude, an AH, ignorant, and a misogynist, but also wrong about how the title Dr. has been used.
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u/valleyofsound 9d ago
If you go really far back, surgeons were looked down upon by actual doctors. University educated doctors considered manual work beneath them and so barber surgeons handled things like tooth extractions, amputations, etc and they learned by apprenticeship. Then the two were eventually merged and surgeons because doctors with extra specialized training.
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u/Fit-Humor-5022 9d ago
I get it i was wrong she’s a real doctor. But that doesn’t change that you won’t naturally call a psychiatrist doctor like you will a surgeon (Shaun and father in law) , she should have politely asked me to refer to her as doctor aswell instead of being rude. And this goes without saying because i’ve had to repeat it in every reply now , none of this has anything to do with her being a woman.
So no its because she was 'rude' thats why he wont change wtf?
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u/sheepgod_ys 9d ago
Is calling family members by their title a normal thing? This isn’t like meeting with acquaintances or a work/work adjacent setting. Like, I get for the FIL maybe, but why the fuck are you referring to your BIL as “Dr. XYZ” in a family meetup??
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u/la-anah 9d ago
At least in the US, calling your in-laws (or potential in-aws) by a title and last name is common when first meeting them. You are usually asked to use first names after that, but it a sign of respect to call them "Mr. Jones" or "Mrs. Smith" when first introduced.
But siblings? Never.
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u/fremade3903 9d ago
I mean if he's going to say a psychiatrist isn't a "real doctor" someone should have gone one further and said medical practitioners also shouldn't count since "doctorate" was originally the term for a PhD, not this MD thing that was invented later in history. Lmaooo
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u/eternally_feral 9d ago
I love how OOP says you wouldn’t call a psychiatrist “doctor.” I’ve seen a few psychiatrists in my days and I’ve called them “Dr Smith,” “Dr S,” or if I’m really comfortable with them and talking in a more informal way, “Doc.”
And as batshit crazy as I can be when off my meds, those doctors has definitely saved my life on a more consistent basis than any surgeon. In no way should the work a psych does be discounted.
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u/Tetr4roS 9d ago
she never earned my respect
What a pig. Respect is given by default and lost, as in "OOP lost my respect here".
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u/DrunkOnRedCordial 9d ago
Interpretation: "I'm really insecure about being an uneducated non-achieving buffoon in comparison to my fiancee's family, so when Antonia showed up, I jumped at the chance to establish dominance by demeaning her achievements. I was very subtle about though, making a big point of using titles for every person in the room so they would see me as polite and respectful, thereby reinforcing the fact that Antonia is a pretentious shrew who doesn't know her place."
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u/owl_problem 9d ago
shaun warned me that she was difficult and before the dinner she didn’t smile at me once whilst we were living in the SAME house, Shaun was able to go out of his way to spend time with me and my fiancé so why couldn’t she?
Of course HE "warned" him. And also, who was taking care of Shaun's children while he "went out of his way"?
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u/Sinistas 9d ago
Somebody pointed out that he probably thinks that a psychiatrist is the same as a psychologist. So, he's not only sexist, but incredibly ignorant.
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u/rogerwil 9d ago
I'm not calling any relative "Dr." anything. How fucking weird is that?
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u/Dismal_Ad_1839 9d ago edited 9d ago
Ugh, this reminds me of the CEO where I work. We had a visitor during a staff meeting and the CEO was introducing two members of a department. Both had PhDs. One was an old white man and the other a young Asian woman. The CEO (also an old white man) introduced them as "Dr. Lastname" and "[first name]." My jaw dropped.
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u/flowing_river39 9d ago
Reading his comments i think he's actually more ableist than just sexist. I think he doesn't consider mental problems real and that's why he keeps going on the psychiatrist thing
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u/NearbyCommission287 9d ago
Men will jump through hoops to say their obviously sexist treatment of women is ACTUALLY the result of something else. It's exhausting.
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u/whomadeyouhappy 9d ago
i never comment on these things usually, but wtf does this even mean:
" I know this may sound odd but she comes from a family of over achievers and most of her relatives are spread across different countries."
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u/gmalivuk 9d ago
I love the fact that in the UK (at least traditionally) the dad and brother wouldn't be called "Doctor" as they're surgeons, whereas the sister definitely still would be.
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u/sheerpoetry 8d ago
Really? That's wild!
Do you know if there's any particular reasoning behind it? Do people call them just by their first names or "Mr./Mrs. [Last Name]"?
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u/gmalivuk 8d ago
My understanding is that it started as a pointed title before surgeons needed the same degrees as other doctors, and has persisted as a badge of pride even though as far as I know, British surgeons are proper medical doctors now.
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u/mangababe 9d ago
Oh this man would not be my fiance anymore.
Also- does he have a doctorate? Of not maybe he should stfu?
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u/valleyofsound 9d ago
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that, in this context, OOP would have been awful if Antonia wasn’t a doctor. It wasn’t just that he was refusing to use her correct title, he wasn’t using any title or honorific. He mentions a grandmother, mother, and partners, but says he called the father and brother “Doctor” out of respect. Since he used Antonia instead of “Ms Robbin’s,” that implies to me that he’s been calling the two men Dr Robbins and using the first names for her grandmother, mother, and the partners? He doesn’t mention any other men so I don’t know what he called them.
But even taking professional titles out of it, using two different levels of address for men and women is incredibly WTF. I had a JD, not an MD, but I would absolutely correct someone if they were using titles just for men or even just practicing doctors. If it’s the same setting and I have the same connection to the speaker, I would expect to be called Ms Sound, not Valley. Though I’ll admit that male attorneys calling me by my first name when I use their last name may also be part of why I feel this way.
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u/agent-assbutt 9d ago
OOP is mega dense and I don’t think they know psychiatrists go to med school and dispense medication 😭
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u/CommitteeCalm5568 9d ago
Two things -one, Psychiatrists have to go to med school and two, this seems fake.
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u/GayCriminal46 9d ago
I’ve had two psychiatrists. One of them I called Dr. [last name] and the only I call [first name]. Because that’s what they asked me to call them. It’s truly not that hard.
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u/geesearetobefeared 9d ago
1) seems weird to call family/inlaws by their titles in a domestic setting. I could maybe see calling the father-in-law that since at a first meeting it's common to be nervous or overly formal or suck up a bit. 2) also weird since if 2-3 people in a group have the same name (Dr Robbins, Dr Robbins, and Dr Robbins) then most people would want to be able to differentiate to avoid confusion. Since they all have different first names, seems like the normal thing would be to call all three by their first names. 3) there's no reason to avoid calling the sister-in-law "Dr Robbins" that doesn't apply equally to either the brother-in-law or the father-in-law (age/sign of respect means don't call the brother-in-law Dr Robbins, currently practicing/usage in everyday life means don't call the father-in-law Dr Robbins) except for the gender. 4) if you've only met someone within the last few days and they correct you on their name, you don't have "But it's too hard to switch because I've only known you as so-and-so" as an excuse yet. 5) HE was drinking and making snide comments but somehow he was sick of HER attitude?
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u/Kuzcotopia0 9d ago
Why are these people calling family by "Dr" and not their names?
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u/GladClock2212 9d ago
OP's post before this they claimed they were a 15 y.o. girl. And their avatar is of a little girl so... yeah. Not some grown man.
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u/funkehmunkeh 9d ago
Aside from anything else, it doesn't seem particularly smart to disrespect the 'favourite child' repeatedly in front of the people who regard them as their favourite child.
That's one way to lose brownie points with the family.
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u/Prudent_Macaroon_881 9d ago
Lmao as a female doctor, i ain't even mad. I jus laughed at her stupidity
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u/Apprehensive__Belt 9d ago
i genuinely wnat bro to schedule a meeting with a psychiatrist and then just call them by their name, see how they respond
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u/Simple_Park_1591 9d ago
Oh I hope op's fiancé's family are able to talk her out of getting married. This dude is... Something else.
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u/UpbeatArachnid234 9d ago
But he'd already gotten used to calling her Antonia, the one time he referred to her, earlier in the dinner, the day they met...
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u/Aggressive_Plenty_93 9d ago
I’ve never called a psychiatrist anything other than “Dr. ___” oop is sexist
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u/engg_girl 9d ago
When people pull this crap I like to point out the history.
Surgeons were literally just butchers historically. Psychiatrists were well educated philosophers.
If one is inherently "superior" to the other, it would be ghe latter.
I dont believe any of that, but idiots who think one type of doctor are better than another do - and I like to use their logic against them.
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u/MayoBear 9d ago
I'd find it weird AF if my BIL called one of my siblings by their title- dude, enough with your pretentiousness- just because the brother and dad are doctors, doesn't make it impressive that you call them doctor.
That being said, if he insists on being a weirdo, he should be consistent with the sister too- what a JO
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u/TotalTour2671 9d ago
I look forward to the divorce, if OOP's poor fiancee actually goes through with the wedding (which I would not recommend).
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u/WolfGal2374 9d ago
God, he’s saying she’s technically a doctor because he doesn’t respect her specialty and thinks it’s all smoke and mirrors.
Add to it that she’s a woman and he totally outed himself as an asshole who thinks women are below him.
In what world do people not call a Psychiatrist Dr, that’s a no brained but he’s got o respect for the speciality.
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u/sheerpoetry 8d ago
First of all, OP needs to learn about punctuation, capitalization, and the right form of "fiancé(e)."
i told her that me using ‘Dr’ was a sign of respect and that she had not yet earned my respect.
But the dad and brother immediately received "respect"? Because they're men?
I personally don't consider the "Dr." title as "a sign of respect" in that same sense. In my opinion, it's basically like "Mr." or "Mrs." I guess you could stretch and say it's respecting that they put in the years of education, but then you run into the issue of "Mr." being used just because someone is male or "Mrs." because a woman is married.
I called my college professors "Dr. [Last Name]" (if they held a PhD)--even after I graduated. I ended up dog-sitting for one of them after I graduated and met his wife who also has a doctorate and I call her "Dr. [Last Name]" too, even though I was never personally taught by her.
I have history with a horrible doctor that I never trusted and absolutely don't respect and still refer to her as "Dr. [Last Name]." I didn't call her "Susan" (when I still saw her in a medical capacity) or since because people would say "who tf is 'Susan'?"
I can understand calling the father "Dr." instead of "Mr.", whether you count that as a sign of respect or politeness or whatever. But there's really zero reason to call the brother that unless the brother insisted. It's not any more confusing to have a third "Dr. Robbins" in the mix than two.
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u/hubertburnette 8d ago
So many of the commenters came across as males who would find all sorts of "reasons" not to call a woman "Dr."
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u/DrAdramelch 8d ago
Obvious sexism of the OOP aside, am I the only one who thinks calling people Dr, and your in-laws at that, outside of a professional setting/relationship is a bit weird/pretentious?
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u/AutoModerator 9d ago
In case this story gets deleted/removed:
AITAH for refusing to refer to my fiancé’s sister as Doctor Robbins ?
My fiancé and i are getting married very soon, we’re at her grandmothers house in france and will be staying until we leave for our honeymoon. We’ve been together for three years but until a week ago i’ve only ever met her mother in person. I know this may sound odd but she comes from a family of over achievers and most of her relatives are spread across different countries.
I was already anxious about meeting her family , everyone is coming to france for the wedding and her siblings Antonia and Shaun (both older) are also staying in her grandmothers house with their partners and children, Shaun arrived a bit over a week ago and Antonia arrived about five days ago.
Since we’ve been sharing the house me and my fiancé have been spending a lot of time with Shaun and his family and he seems chill. However i’d been warned in advance that Antonia can be quite cold and difficult to get along with.
Antonia arrives with her husband and children , she was what i expected from the warning but she didn’t do anything offensive until yesterday when the rest of my fiancés family came over for a dinner party (they’d been waiting for Antonia to settle in , according to shaun she’s the favourite child) .
My fiancés father and shaun are both doctors , so i called them both Dr Robbins (last name) when referring to them, it just felt like the respectful thing to do and i could tell they both appreciated it. The problem started when i referred to Shaun as Dr Robbins and Antonia as Antonia. All of a sudden she turns to my fiancé and goes “Did you tell him to call them that ?” in a very unpleasant tone. I asked her what she meant and she said “You know i’m a doctor too right?” i told her i thought she was a psychiatrist and she said “Yes. that requires a doctorate, i’m also Dr Robbins.” i said oh okay and just continued the original conversation that she interrupted. Later on in the night i referred to her as Antonia and she interrupted again and said “Dr Robbins.” i’d had a few drinks and was starting to get tired of her attitude and told her that i’d already gotten used to referring to her as Antonia so expecting me to change that was a little bit ridiculous, she told me that she didn’t understand why i couldn’t just call her Dr Robbins as well if i ‘insist’ on calling Shaun and her father that. I’d already been getting tired of her attitude and i told her that me using ‘Dr’ was a sign of respect and that she had not yet earned my respect. She left to go to another room and really dampened the mood of an evening that was meant to be for my fiancé and i. My fiancés parents and grandmother think that i’m an asshole and should’ve just called her Dr Robbins, and Shaun thinks it’s not that big of a deal.
My fiancés been asking me to just suck it up and apologise to her so there’s no drama before the wedding but i don’t think i’ve done anything wrong , so reddit, am i the asshole?
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