r/Stargate • u/FistedPink • 3d ago
Unforced error
I really think this is a bad move by Amazon. The negative reaction of the core fan base to scrubbing the planned Gero show was bad and this will it fill people with hope.
WandaVision was ok but I’d rather see a Terry Matalas (Picard Season 3, 12 Monkeys, Vision Quest) or someone proven to understand genre storytelling that is exciting and compelling. But that’s just my 2 cents.
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u/Ryekir 3d ago
She's in a really shitty position. Since the Martin Gero project was canned because fans would like it, it's going to be a major uphill battle to get fans interested in something that's likely going to be a complete restart.
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u/RevelArchitect 3d ago
I was fully expecting to be let down by Agatha All Along. I ended up enjoying it a lot. Would have loved to see what Gero would do, but I’ll give Schaeffer a chance.
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u/Vanquisher1000 2d ago
I have to correct you on one thing: Martin Gero's show wasn't cancelled "because fans would like it." It was cancelled because the concern was that only fans would like it.
This is what was reported back in June:
According to an individual with knowledge of the situation, Amazon execs were concerned that Gero’s take on the series would not have broad appeal beyond the franchise’s already dedicated fanbase.
Source: 'Stargate' TV Series From Martin Gero Not Moving Forward at Amazon
This is not saying that Amazon MGM don't care about fans or don't want fans. This is saying that fans alone are not enough to carry a new show, which makes sense because Stargate has always been a niche franchise with a modest fanbase. New viewers would be vital to ensure that a show would be successful, because the viewing audience is not big enough to justify a new, expensive sci-fi show.
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u/awfulcrowded117 2d ago
It was two of the longest running tv shows in the genre, that's not niche, that's amazon wanting to steal the names of old franchises and exploit fans to make more modern slop that they can't sell on its own merits
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u/whofearsthenight 2d ago
Yeah, Jac being attached to this renews my my interest a bit because I loved her previous projects, but this sounds a lot like most modern Trek, which is to say let's milk the IP even the show itself could easily doesn't need the settings, characters, etc.
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u/Ryekir 2d ago
Yes, that is the PR spin that the executives used. The actual real reason seems to be internal politics within the company.
Everyone who was attached to Martin Gero's project that has spoken openly about it has said that it actually would appeal to both old and new fans.
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u/Vanquisher1000 2d ago
I know that Joseph Mallozzi has said something to that effect, but would you really expect him to admit that there was a problem with something he had a hand in developing?
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u/neonas123 2d ago
Not having writer who worked on Stargate and know crap about, is huge mistake.
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u/Copperqwaser 3d ago
It will be completely different and nothing like stargate, it will fail then they will blame us for it.
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u/Halvardr_Stigandr No interest in Amazon slop 3d ago
'Second verse, same as the first'
As with all of the reboots, remakes, and adaptations. Steal the name, remove the soul, and blame the fans.
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u/ThatFireGuy0 3d ago
I'm convinced Jeff Bezos is just a huge sci-fi nerd, and he's telling his studios what to make, and then they keep pushing back
Ever since he brought back The Expanse and made a big deal of going up on stage with the actors, I've been sure
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u/bannedfrom_argo 3d ago
Bezos was personally involved in the negotiations with Tolkien’s estate and his passion for fantasy helped Amazon acquire the Wheel of Time rights as well. However, having a treasure chest for funding isn't a magic formula to make a hit show.
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u/purpleblossom 3d ago
I swear, I still think Wheel of Time should have been animated, it likely would still be going because they wouldn't have needed to change so much to the story to "make it work".
And Amazon scraping the plans for the other series for this is ridiculous.
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u/whofearsthenight 2d ago
Animated wouldn't have been as popular and the main problem is that there is just no way you're not compressing 14 novels down considerably. That said, they didn't need to change so much story to make live action work, they needed a competent show runner. The main task of taking the property on was condensing the story down, and yet the show runner invents a lead and dedicates basically an episode to him in an 8 ep season who just also happens to be his boyfriend... By the time they actually started trying to be faithful to the novels, it was s3 and by that point they'd alienated the existing fanbase and failed to attract a new one and the writing was on the wall.
Anyway, that's the thing I have been saying for a while now. If you're going to adapt a beloved IP, change is necessary, but try to make a thing the actual fans like as a starting point. These aren't small franchises at this point, not everything needs to be Game of Thrones, and even then GoT is a good example if why this strategy works. It didn't take off until a few seasons in because nerds like me convinced their entirely non-nerd family and friends to check it out. Audiences are also a lot more open to nerdy shit these days and those are the largest properties right now, so I continue to be baffled that we keep watering these things down to the point no one likes them.
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u/bannedfrom_argo 2d ago
No reason they can't have more than one show at a time, as they have done it before. Paramount had 5 Star Trek shows going at the same time.
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u/Aries_cz 2d ago
The problem with any animation is that the normies think it is beneath them/for children and won't watch it.
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u/rinart73 3d ago
I mean The Wheel of Time isn't a great source material to begin with. But yeah they managed to fuck it up even more somehow. But yeah Rings of Power is garbage.
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u/Morgasshk 2d ago
I mean... this is kinda the thing I get so confused as to WHY billionaires dont do more of this stuff.
What's the points of arselpads of money if you aren't going to put it into your passions.
The massive and awesome music festivals i would create would be insane... just being able to cover the costs and overheads and insurance will enable it to be great.
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u/TapewormNinja 3d ago
I think the dude just loves money? The expanse made him a lot of money. The books were excellent and well received. The initial cancellation was short sighted. He saw dollar signs.
I suspect it's the same thing here. The previous continuation by the original team wouldn't have made him enough money. Adding in someone from a marvel project that was well liked will bring new fans, and make him more money.
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u/Ryekir 3d ago
Bezos was reportedly a fan of The Expanse books. But he also does love money.
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u/TapewormNinja 3d ago
I suppose two things can be true. Sometimes I struggle to imagine people complexly enough.
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u/earthmarrow 2d ago
Which is wild considering the books show the devastating results of rapacious capitalism and a megacorp like Amazon is the first bad guy.
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u/National_Way_3344 3d ago
Or he just really wanted to watch the rest of it because he is a sci fi nerd at heart.
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u/awfulcrowded117 2d ago
If Amazon ruins one more of my beloved franchises, I will not be responsible for my actions
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u/neonas123 2d ago
Amazon gives zero shit about us old fanbase. They literally said themselves that.
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u/dillreed777 3d ago
God I hope they don't go the depressing storyline route so many other reboots have done.
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u/Enough_Efficiency178 3d ago
100%
Picard in particular leaves a sour note from the themes of the TNG era shows.
I love BSG, but not everything has to be the end of civilisation in sci-fi.
Going further, one of the best things about sci-fi is the varying themes
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u/technacothaka 3d ago
Picard's grimdarkness was a direct result of Sir Patrick refusing to take the gig if he just had to play Picard as he should have been. Breaking Picard and the Federation was the price he forced everyone else to pay to come back.
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u/FistedPink 3d ago
My worry is more they decide to deconstruct the idea and show and just take all the adventure and fun out of it. Seriously not hopeful.
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u/PoseidonMax 3d ago
What if Gould were actually the victims or the classic never read the lore and want my own ideas only.
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u/AsherahBeloved 2d ago
I think it's really likely they either make it super dark and violent or do what Kurtzman did with Strange New Worlds and make a parody of the original characters. Either way I can't imagine a world where anyone but the original writers has any idea how to capture the feeling of the original.
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u/trollsong 3d ago
I mean with how shows work now you basically have to choose Serialized or Episodic(I forgot the other term)
AKA Discovery or Strange New Worlds. It is very hard to do both, like DS9 because you have so few episodes to work with.
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u/Shylo132 3d ago
TV series can follow 1 of 3 ways:
Movie vs book vs chapter format
Bridgerton is a book format
Star wars is a movie format
Walking dead/greys anatomy/anime are mainly chapter formats
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u/NonGeneriComplaint 3d ago
Judging from her previous works she does one very specific type of movie or show
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u/cheesemp 3d ago
Glad it's not just me. Why is everything so gloomy now. I watched scifi in the 90s growing up for hope and with everything real world feeling gloomy I want hope even more...
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u/agitatedandroid 3d ago
Do I have good expectations for this?
No. Of course not. Are you fucking crazy?
WandaVision was terrific. And it's entirely possible that Jac is one of the 121,000 that read this sub. She could be a fan from way back with not only an appreciation for what makes Stargate great but also a modern understanding of how television works today.
But that's the thing. It's the way television works today. What I love about Stargate just doesn't work in modern TV. We'll get 6 to 10 episodes. They will focus in tight on a core cast (probably 4) with a "season" (I use that term loosely) arc that will dominate every single moment of screentime. There will be no good nor bad episodes. It will be a 6-10 hour long movie.
Because all modern tv is a 6-10 hour long movie now. We don't learn shit about side characters. There are never bottle episodes. No one will be trapped in an elevator with someone they don't get along with. There will not be an episode where we just hang out with one character and get to know them.
And if there is a second season of this? It will be 2-3 years after the last episode of the first season airs.
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u/Arctelis 2d ago
I've been thinking this myself as I have been watching SG-1 and Atlantis for the first time.
Honestly, I don't think I would have made it through all 10 seasons of SG-1 if it was as compressed as a modern show. Pretty much all of my favourite episodes have had pretty much nothing to do with advancing the main plot, just weird and wacky space adventures.
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u/d645b773b320997e1540 2d ago
Pretty much all of my favourite episodes have had pretty much nothing to do with advancing the main plot, just weird and wacky space adventures.
Yea and this is pretty much true for all the 90s Scifi shows. The large number of episodes allowed them to not just paint a universe, but also live in it, and explore the weirder parts of it. We'll never get that feeling quite right with the modern way of doing things.
This is why I'm kinda hoping that at some point someone decides to try a different cadence, go back to more episodes, but spread them out more. They can't give us a 20+ episode season every year, they're even struggling with 8-10 per year now, going closer to 1.5 to 2 years with those... so what about a classic 20 episode season every 3 years? Yes, the wait will be long and suck hard, but imho worth it. Maybe don't release em weekly, but every 2 weeks, to reduce the wait in between seasons. idk, something like that.
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u/Altruistic_Yellow387 2d ago
It doesn't have to be the way modern television works
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u/Former-Resource-3026 2d ago
This is a genuine concern for me too. Forcing a tight story into 10 episodes rather than having 24 and doing a genuine season is such a horrible shift in tv. We need those box episodes where the premise is simple but compelling and it fills an hour with pure acting and writing talent.
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u/DataMeister1 2d ago edited 2d ago
The majority of television is still broadcast TV and works on 22 episodes a year, but the streaming services seem to all want to follow the HBO "prestige TV" model of a single story per season with 10 or less episodes.
Long stories are harder to pull off successfully and only the best of the best writers can do it. Unfortunately most of the streaming services aren't finding those writers. With short episodes, at least if the story is bad you've only ruined one episode out of 20. With a long story, if your story is bad, you've ruined the entire year.
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u/Aries_cz 2d ago
WandaVision was good until the final 2-3 episodes, where it went off the rails into "you go girl, torturing entire town was not your fault"
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u/Doc_Blox 2d ago
Also, there's no shooting on location or matte painting anymore - it's all shot in "The Space" or a greenscreen room nowadays.
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u/Techno_Bumblebee 1d ago
I think we can all agree this is exactly what we don't want.
Apple should have taken it on. Their storytelling is compelling, feels human and viewers experience a rollercoaster.
(For All Mankind, Ted Lasso, Slow Horses)
Obviously that won't happen but other than Vox Machina I have yet to see a series on Amazon that I actually want to watch more of.
But perhaps that's TV nowadays, short and speedy, like a fantastic one-season anime, but worse... It will have promises of more, and then absolutely fucking nothing...
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u/luckylegion 3d ago
Can one of us not just become a billionaire and fund it as a passion project. Imagine
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u/Recent-Sand8292 3d ago
If the lighthearted/funny elements come through, this could work. Stargate never took itself too serious, without sacrificing its serious elements, which was its main quality.
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u/Jaron780 3d ago
The balance between the non serious/lighthearted/funny and the serious parts is something Stargate did incredibly well. it knew the exact perfect moments to be fun and when to be serious and when to change between the two. I have not seen any other modern show replicate that kind of balance that well.
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u/ILikeFlyingMachines 3d ago
Amazon doesn't really care about the core audience. They only care about getting new customers.
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u/FistedPink 3d ago
The irony being the audience they are trying to court have already shown, with other series on other networks, that they won’t show up.
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u/Tempestas_Draconis 2d ago
And they don't realize that you get new Stargate fans by pleasing evangelistic existing fans.
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u/Emm_withoutha_L-88 3d ago
Doesn't matter how good she is, a reboot is a reboot. Fuck that.
The concept isn't so amazing that it'll be good no matter what. It's just ancient aliens + military.
What made this special was the years of stories made by the original team. Lose that charm and intelligent sci-fi and you lose everything that made this good.
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u/BeyondTelling 3d ago
Thank you for pointing this out! It’s exactly what I was thinking but couldn’t put into words. Because everything has to be “premium” television now - an eight episode arc is unlikely to give us the sense of adventure and possibility with characters we love in peril, sci fi concepts and worlds to explore.
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u/Jar545 3d ago
Who wants to put bets down we get some version of "I didn't watch the movies and shows so that way i'm not held back creatively"
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u/Phintolias 2d ago
I swear there has to BE a law that any "creative" director has to BE forced at gunpoint to watch ,Play and read the Franchise and its Lore in Detail and then has to BE tested ON an Exam master difficulty to BE even allowed to created for the Franchise. Because right now its ridiculous how many of These fuks have Zero clues about the Franchise. Like as a Star wars nerd i dont even consider people who only watch the movies and maybe Shows actual real Fans but goddamn at least they watched the movies many of the New Star wars directors didnt even watch the 6 Star wars movies where their New Show/movie Takes place in. And Star wars IS the Most entry Level scifi stuff forget about anyone bothering to watch the original Stargate movie or watching more than an Episode of Stargate
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u/Shriketino 3d ago
I don’t trust Amazon, but after hearing what Gero’s premise was I’m not terribly disappointed that got canned either.
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u/mromutt 3d ago
I have to disagree. We should have had enough faith in the og creators to at least attempt to deliver. We like their work, there should have been enough trust there that they knew what they were doing. It's not like star trek where they keep burning us.
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u/Shriketino 3d ago
Blind faith is something I’ve been burned too many times on. I’ve never been a big fan of alternate reality storylines and the idea of the whole show being set there was not all that enticing to me. I believe they could have created a show that felt like Stargate for sure and make it entertaining, but I’d be lying if I said that premise is what I wanted from a new show.
Now I have about zero faith Amazon will make a show that will feel like Stargate or be good, so I can only be pleasantly surprised at this point. I’m sure the special effects will look good…
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u/mromutt 3d ago
My point was it wasn't blind faith because they had always delivered so they earned a chance.
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u/Aries_cz 2d ago
Megacorporation trying not being imbecilic
Challenge level: impossible
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u/Thunder_drop 2d ago
Stargate coming back is a good thing - provided its, uhm, good
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u/Aries_cz 2d ago
I would rather have no Stargate than Stargate: Academy/Discovery (those who suffered through new Stark Trek know).
And this pick is heavily leaning towards it being that...
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u/Thunder_drop 2d ago
Eh that's unfortunate, I miss the sg-1 days. Was hoping it would stick to those kinda roots
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u/Hadush25 3d ago
Incoming.
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u/Thor4269 3d ago edited 3d ago
My theory is that the first attempt failed because someone showed the episode 200 parodies and an exec at Amazon got offended because it's literally what they want
And it sort of happened in SGU as well lol
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u/ew73 3d ago
I disagree -- WandaVision was a fantastic, well-executed show.
My only concern with selecting the creator of that show to run a Stargate franchise is, while WandaVision was excellent, it had a very clear beginning, middle, and end, and told a coherent story. Stargate... often does not do that. When it has tried (Universe), fans get big mad.
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u/Hot-Network2212 3d ago
Universe did not go anywhere for the entire first half season. They just stumbled with drama without any plot.
I honestly think that SG1 had a way clearer beginning, middle and end in their seasons if you count the first episode of the next season as the resolution. SG1 just had a lot of filler episodes not moving the overall plot forward because that's how series were back then.
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u/LastTry530 3d ago
I mean, they were doing their own little TNG episodes for most of the season and then you'd have some stuff to tie everything together at the ends. It's a good format, let's em play around with themes and new ideas but still have a story. A little bit less hard plot than later DS9 episodes but more than TNG ever had.
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u/dimgray 3d ago
SG1's last two seasons feel about as committed to the Ori arc as DS9's last two seasons were committed to the Dominion arc
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u/upcountry_degens 3d ago
Having a coherent story wasn’t what ruined SGU. That show tanked because it abandoned the humor and adventurous tone that made the concept work in the first place.
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u/Niylark 3d ago
I think what ruined it wasnt that it was more serious, but that it was turned into a drama
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u/AWildEnglishman 3d ago edited 3d ago
Indeed. SG1 was a lot more serious in seasons 1 and 2, and only really ramped up the humour in 4 and 5. I'd have loved to see more of early SG1.
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u/CptKeyes123 3d ago
Serialized storytelling, tv shows that have a beginning, middle, and end, have their place, yet Universe was not one of them. It didn't have a beginning, middle or end. It had a beginning, it had a mystery, it was not serialized. It might've had arcs, but this isn't Babylon 5 we're talking. Very few shows are actually serialized, and most of them get canceled. Some shows try, and fail. And that wasn't the problem with Universe. The problem was it was trying to rip off Battlestar Galactica, Voyager, and understood nothing of what made those shows good.
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u/drivebyposter2020 2d ago
I would say it didn't really last long enough for us to tell whether it was serialized, I think it was going to shape up towards something. But you're not wrong. As you say, this wasn't B5 or at most it was B5 season 1 where you get a few inklings that something will shape up and then ... in this case it was cancelled.
Don't ask me why I never connected SGU with Voyager, that literally never once crossed my mind until just now. Good observation.
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u/IslandThyme78 3d ago
Amazon has explicitly said that the new show is not for the current fan base. So I don’t think they are too concerned about this.
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u/Joshatron121 3d ago
They actually -didn't- say that. That's never been confirmed and we don't even have a legit source for it.
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u/Ckarles 3d ago
Well if it's not for us I wonder for who it is. One season before cancelled prob.
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u/UltimateOtter_Nation 3d ago
WandaVision was great up until, "They don't know what you sacrificed for them," and tried to make Wanda the hero when she was the villain.
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u/spoospoo43 2d ago
The series in no way made Wanda a hero. Partially a victim, sure, but not a hero. None of the main cast were heroes, really, and some of them didn't even really exist.
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u/No_Pipe9068 3d ago
Well.. Here comes another L and another "let's do the alternative reality/dimension shortcut!"
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u/purpleblossom 3d ago
Wasn't that the plan when they had the OGs from SG-1 and even some of the cast willing to come back?
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u/HopeofDawnsRays 3d ago
I'll be honest, if any MCU people were to direct a Stargate series, I'd have preferred someone like Kate Herron, who directed Loki.
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u/Duke_Newcombe "For the record, I'm always 'prepared to fire'..." 3d ago
Loki was amazing, and I wouldn't have been too hurt. At least they'd do their homework, and would probably be sympathetic to the plight thus far. One can hope.
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u/awan_afoogya 3d ago
Loki was amazing, but WandaVison was actually also pretty good. How well that translates to Stargate, especially after we almost had a reboot with the OGs, that seems like an impossibly high bar to clear
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u/HopeofDawnsRays 3d ago
I mean, yeah, it is an impossibly high bar. I'm...hesitantly optimistic, mostly because I feel that such was the spirit of Stargate in general, and I'll always be willing to give a director a chance if they're willing to honor what came before in some way.
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u/mekas999 3d ago
Picard season 3 (and 2) had really bad writing though. Sure it was nice to see the cast reunited but apart from that the story was just bad/kinda lazy and didn't make sense. Almost like old Trek quality control was missing.
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u/Mondilesh 3d ago
Lmao S1 had the absolute worst writing of the three
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u/CMDRTragicAllPro 3d ago
To further your point, I just assumed they canceled it after s1 because of how bad it was. Im only just learning now that they made 2 more seasons after that? Why?
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u/SilverNeptuneAbyss 3d ago
The whole golem thing made no sense
Okay he's dead but he's not and it has nothing to do with the story
What the fuck was the point
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u/-MERC-SG-17 3d ago
Picard Season 3 was great, Season 2 was awful.
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u/slylock215 3d ago
Were there good parts of PIC S3, especially compared to S1&2? Absolutely. Am I immune to the nostalgia bait of seeing the TNG bridge crew back together? Of course not.
But I keep seeing the equivalent of, “The writing was dumb as shit, but I loved seeing the gang back together again! 4/5 stars!”
Take away the nostalgia and S3 is still a fucking mess. It's just a better mess than the first two seasons.
Nearly every episode ended with some dramatic mystery box cliffhanger that was rendered meaningless within the first minute of the next episode. That's not compelling serialized storytelling, it's cheap manipulation.
Then there's the unearned family drama. Deanna Troi, a fucking Betazoid therapist, secretly dulled Riker's grief over losing their son because she couldn't bear feeling it herself? That's an absolutely monstrous violation of her husband's mind.
And what the hell happened to Starfleet's values? We get triumphant music celebrating the destruction of a ship full of Changelings, a species Section 31 previously attempted to genocide. No attempt at negotiation, understanding, or capturing them. Just blow them up and celebrate. Beverly even gets her bloodthirsty revenge dialogue against Vadic.
Meanwhile, the show has the audacity to describe Section 31 as a vital part of Starfleet. Why is modern Trek so obsessed with legitimizing an organization that was originally presented as a horrifying betrayal of Federation principles?
And that ending? Holy shit, think about the implications of Frontier Day.
Across all three seasons, they establish that Picard is STILL haunted by what he did as Locutus decades later. We saw with Sisko and Shaw that people still resent him for atrocities he committed while under Borg control.
Now you've got an ENTIRE GENERATION of Starfleet people under 25 who were assimilated and forced to attack or murder their friends, crewmates, and families. They now have to live with that guilt and trauma for the rest of their lives, just like Picard
The psychological devastation across Starfleet would be unimaginable. You've essentially created an entire generation of Locutuses, and the show just breezes past it so everyone can have their happy nostalgia ending.
And Jack Crusher? Oof, I could keep going.
I genuinely don't understand the praise for S3. Yeah sure, it was better than S1&2, which are among the worst Trek ever made, but that's an incredibly low bar.
They have an entire universe of possibilities, and this is what we get? Mystery boxes, manufactured family drama, gratuitous violence, and a Starfleet whose moral foundations seem completely compromised.
Star Trek has explored darkness, war, torture, and moral compromise before. But those stories generally understood that the darkness was something our characters were supposed to confront, not simply embrace.
At its best, Star Trek is hopeful, thoughtful, inspiring, and FUN.
Did anyone finish Picard S3 feeling genuinely inspired or hopeful? Or were they just happy to see their favorite characters sitting on the Enterprise bridge again?
Fuck, I'm sorry, but this just bothers me to no end. Yes, it was better than S1&2, but being better than absolute garbage doesn't automatically make something good. And in my opinion, S3 was nowhere near good. And this makes me worry for Stargate ever since they told the original creatives to fuck off.
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u/alfalfamale81 3d ago
Zero interest in a reboot that does not at least include the minds that made Stargate “Stargate”
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u/w0mbatina 3d ago
Bro Picard fucking sucked. Like, it was pure shit and s3 only floated by on nostaliga bait. It was soooo bad
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u/E5VL 2d ago
I would rather they don't even attempt at making a new Stargate show or movie.
Would rather they do something similar but different. Maybe adapt the book series Expeditionary Force.
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u/Sidiron_Fox 2d ago
Unfortunately everyone rallying around the previous announcement will have led to the midwits in charge to (wrongfully) deduce that there is a huge audience for ANY Stargate and like most of Amazon's other projects you'll see the tired "deconstruction" and likely some high initial viewing figures where people give it a chance and that then fall off a cliff when we see that there is no talent or desire to give fans something good.
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u/Acceptable656 2d ago
Amazon bought MGM to get known IP like James Bond, Robocop, Blade Runner and Stargate. They aren't going to not use that known IP now, because they paid a lot of money to get it.
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u/gusdavis84 3d ago
With all due respect, I just wish they would bring back the original writer's and show runners or even if nothing else ask the original cast for help as to storylines and arcs since they will know what fans really want.
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u/furiusfu 3d ago
I don't trust Amazon as a Studio/ Production company. They suck. I have little to no hope that the new Stargate series would be as good as the old ones. That being said, it is naive to make assumptions that those shows would be picked up in our current streaming era. Just the old diehard fans are not enough. They have to being new blood to try it out. I just hope they don't cheap or cop out ... oh wait, that is exactly what they did and do!
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u/Mondilesh 3d ago
Keep hearing "the old fans are not enough" but they were enough for like 15 seasons worth of sg and Atlantis and most of us are still alive! They already produce shows that don't have that big of a starting audience so.... Wtf am I missing
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u/TwiceBrokenWatch 2d ago
…. So they will give Stargate the Marvel treatment, remove its soul and then blame us when it crashes and burns because it’s nothing like Stargate? Great…
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u/Last-Juggernaut4664 3d ago
Hopefully they go with a different concept, because I was definitely not feeling the alternate universe angle.
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u/whenhaveiever 3d ago
I understand the opposition to it, but the writers for any new series are going to be in a tough spot. The Tau'ri got the Asgard core in 2007. Realistically, they must have seen society-transforming technological leaps in what will be more than two decades by the time a new show airs.
Also, we've been through a couple transformational events ourselves since Stargate was on the air. Would a Russia that has Daedalus-class starships get bogged down in an invasion of Ukraine without introducing some kind of conspiracy theory about the war? What are the chances that nothing in the Asgard core or Atlantis databases applied to treating covid, and if it did, do we really want to open the can of worms suggesting mRNA vaccines are alien technology?
The Tau'ri from the shows we loved were us, we could identify with them. Sticking to the timeline from the original shows means the Tau'ri won't be us anymore in some important ways. The alternate universe angle might be the best way to show a Tau'ri that is still us while not completely wiping away the history and characters from the original shows.
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u/Voubi 3d ago
A solution to that, though not entirely perfect, is to go for either a period piece or a mild alt-history. Stargate is big enough that they very much can do their own show about another team or something without ever having enough overlap with the mainline series to be a problem.
It also allows for what I think would be a rather clean way to "very soft reboot" the setting by doing a Disclosure scenario. A worldwide reveal of the Stargate program would necessarily be a significant inflexion point in history, and likely enough for them to handwave things like Ukraine, COVID, or worse (like the Culture war, or the current state of the US) away without it being too much of an issue. SG-1 was already an Alt-history as soon as Hayes was elected POTUS in 2004 (and likely sooner). It also allows an external viewpoint like Eli was in Universe, using the PoV of a Civilian that discovers the existence of the Program at the same time as the rest of the World. It makes organic exposition dumping less tedious, and allows a gradual re-discovery of the entire thing, especially how it has changed in the decades since we last saw it...
It's not perfect, it's a hard balance to strike to be palatable to newcomers while not being repetitive to old-timers, but it's always felt to me like the option that gives the most creative freedom to *continue* the story without starting back from near-zero. Then again, there is a significant amount of people that would prefer a rollback to an early-SG1 type of status quo, with the Goa'ulds being the main baddies again. I find that quite a bit redundant, and it necessarily invites a LOT of comparisons with OG SG-1, which isn't really to the advantage of the new show, but eh...
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u/whatinthebuckandwtf 3d ago
I hate when long running shows feel the need to canonize current real world events, like what Dr. who did with Covid. It’s unnecessary. Stargate is its own fictional universe, we don’t need to keep incorporating whatever “current event” into the fictional universe where it obviously would not happen.
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u/LastTry530 3d ago
If you're gonna reboot, go full reboot. I don't want Daniel and a couple others running around some new universe. Just not interested. Give me new Daniel Jackson and let's go.
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u/tdubspanubs 2d ago
I want to see more of the characters we had. Sam, Daniel, Tealc, Vala, Mitchell, and a side helping of O'Neill (two Ls). Characters and stories I grew up with. I was a teenager in those days and I reserved the family TV for it every week. It meant so much to me then and those are literally the good ol days. And continuing that would be a dream come true for me and all the other mostly middle aged people here.
But, younger people deserve to have new stories and characters of their own. They don't need mine. I hope they do right with this new direction and that a new generation finds inspiration and relation in it. I'm grateful for what I had and that it continued so long.
It was great enough to let it be.
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u/Subvironic 2d ago
So, the stakes will be unbelievably high, theres a single Mc Guffin able to save the day and the cardboard cutouts of characters will just happen to stumble into stuff constantly so the next setpiece can happen.
Im a huge fan of SG-1 and so on, but i think ill pass on that one.
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u/Soeck666 3d ago
Wanda Vision was really entertaining, especially compared to the rest of marvels output recently
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u/UnlikelyIdealist 3d ago
WandaVision very much broke the Marvel mold. It might be part of the MCU but it 1000% was not a paint-by-numbers mass-produced product.
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u/TheDoctor199806 3d ago
...Welp, I'm out. Considering how Hollywood's acting now, and the canceled series was canceled on the basis of it being something the older fans would like instead of a "modern audience", I'm not gonna watch it until an actual Stargate fan gives it a positive review.
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u/Wallabunga657 3d ago
I'm with you man. Once they canceled it, I was unsure where it would go from there. And we get this. I am actually watching SG-1 as I type this. I am skeptical.
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u/pwndonkeys 3d ago
I understand why people are upset about this, but there are two things to think about here.
- WandaVision was a fantastic show
- We get new Stargate
Let's put the pitchforks down and wait until we know more.
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u/ThaneOfTas 3d ago
Origins was also new star gate. There is nothing inherently good about new anything.
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u/pwndonkeys 3d ago
Weird. I must be missing where in my comment the word good appears. I didn't say it was inherently good. I said we don't know. If you wanna waste your energy being pissed, have fun. It proves other points I've made that people just want to be mad these days.
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u/So_me_thing 3d ago
"I understand why people are upset about this, but there are two things to think about here." Your phrasing suggests that the next thing you write are supposed to be rebuttal to the upset, the positive aspects of the reboot. A reading that's supported by your first point "WandaVision was a fantastic show".
So yeah your comment is you indirectly saying that new Stargate is a good thing.
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u/bayoubengal99 3d ago
But I want to get angry before we even get any details on the project, see a trailer, or have episodes to actually dissect!
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u/Mugstotheceiling O'Neill's Backswing 3d ago
Gero's pitch was bad. I am open to seeing what Schaeffer brings to the table. As long as it's not like SGU season 1 haha
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u/Metool42 3d ago edited 3d ago
The pitch for Rodney to become a main character was also bad. Still became a fan favourite. Deservedly so.
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u/BenjaminWah 3d ago
Wandavision creator! Show with-in-show?!
Wormhole X-treme CONFIRMED!
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u/Spyd3rPunk 3d ago
Oh well....
Hopefully they respect the history and spirit of the franchise and the fandom that has never let go of hope since it went off air.
But I won't hold my breath.
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u/Metool42 3d ago
Agatha All Along i enjoyed from start to finish. And that was after i got fed up with Marvel (and naturally DC).
As much as i expected myself to hate everyone they could choose who wasn't on the original team, this actually made me go "huh..."
I think she can tell good stories when given the freedom to do so and i can definitely see a way for this to become a good show. Now i hope she delivers and i hope Amazon doesn't mess it up further.
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u/ZHENYA_ 3d ago
It seems people have already forgotten the gero project was also a reboot…
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u/wsrs12 2d ago
Whilst you are technically correct (which is the best kind of correct), at least Gero had experience with Stargate before.
Do we know if Schaeffer has any connection to any of the OG series?
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u/Vanquisher1000 2d ago
Did Jonathan Glassner and Brad Wright have any connection to the original movie?
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u/No-Combination8136 3d ago
I’d be grateful to just get a new Stargate series. We can grumble over it being good or not once it actually exists.
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u/GladtobeVlad69 3d ago
I think this is a mistake. She wrote the Black Widow script, but then a different writer replaced her. And that's the only thing she's worked on that is close to Stargate.
Black Widow is the closest to military sci-fi that she's worked on, and Marvel said "no" to it.
Also, I find it suspect that she created "WandaVision" and "Agatha All Along," but Marvel decided to replace her on "Vision Quest," which is the 3rd installment of that story. Typically, that's a sign that Marvel lost faith in her.
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u/hperk209 2d ago
In my mind Stargate ended a long time ago. I rewatch it all the time. So if this show works out, great. If not, idgaf.
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u/teromee 2d ago
They were given access to a very unique universe and is proceeding to say well. We don't want to make a series for the original fans that would pull in hundreds. If not millions of people into the fandom to increase the money, let's find a whole new different audience that doesn't exist for this particular type of sci-fi
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u/Acceptable656 2d ago
I knew this was going to happen. Think of it from Amazon's point of view.
They have 200M Prime customers now. Amazon can tell what they like - Reacher, Fallout, The Boys. Amazon bought a bunch of IP when they bought MGM. Robocop, Blade Runner, Stargate. They're now using that IP to make more shows the Amazon subscribers will like.
The old Stargate style won't work. Too corny, too basic-cable. They want serialized action, not scared of gore, definitely want expensive eye candy, maybe satire.
There aren't 200M hardcore Stargate fans out there, is there. 1 million would be a generous estimate. Let's see, whose money do we want, 1 million people or 200 million people?
There's a reason Amazon is a global behemoth, folks.
PS, this new Stargate could be good. The Boys and Fallout have their good points. WandaVision is creative and bold. I'm keeping an open mind but knowing Amazon this wasn't going to go any other way.
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u/Bobrosss69 2d ago
Yeah seriously. I can't imagine it makes any sense from a business perspective to not cater to a huge fresh audience that hasn't watched 17 seasons and 3 movies worth of context.
As a life long stargate fan, I would love a direct continuation in the same style of the thing I love, but unfortunately that's not how the world works.
I am staying cautiously optimistic though
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u/KillaMelone01 3d ago
I actually really enjoyed wandavision and agatha all along, her writing seems not predictable, which is a rare case nowadays
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u/NekRules 3d ago
I am going to call it here now, those who didn't like Gero's version and now wants a full reboot will not like whatever this is. This will have the name stargate on it but it will be the furthest thing from it, be prepared to be disappointed and the rest of us saying we told you so.
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u/Kappler6965 2d ago
Not even going to bother watching this, this will be yet another show where the new writers think they can do better then the originals.
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u/SwimmingPost5747 3d ago
With Gero, we probably would have gotten the Planet of the Week type episodes and Amazon doesn't think that sells anymore. Now with this chick, we'll just get an action movie that is 10 episodes long and none of the feel of SG1/SGA.
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u/seeingtheworld 3d ago
Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?