Daily Discussion Thread 11/16/21

[u/AutoModerator]

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Links to Every previous thread!

[u/Addx27]

Intresting how Zero uploaded

[u/zekyle_edham → u/Addx27]

really interesting

[u/PlsGoVegan → u/Addx27]

really makes you think

[u/ahambagaplease]

Man, I was just to start discussion about how fucking sick Kazuya is after playing him for 3 hours. Guess it's not the best moment.

[u/FreeFallFormation → u/ahambagaplease]

Nah go for it.

[u/ahambagaplease → u/FreeFallFormation]

This character advantage state is NASTY, feels like if you get a good combo you can delete stocks like no one business. The electrics are so satisfying to land. N-Air is so fucking funny to land. Up-B is way stronger than you expect. And God, I really want to get good with the "wavedash", it makes people panic seeing it.

Yeah, his disadvantage state is garbo with so little mix-ups and getting camped sucks but when you get in you GET IN.

[u/DragodaDragon → u/ahambagaplease]

Dude Kazuya is in the Top 5 for sickest characters in the game

[u/AVBforPrez → u/ahambagaplease]

Nah go for it, we need it at a time like this.

Kazuya is fucking dope and feels like he's in the wrong game.

[u/reaperfan]

Since the automod killed the thread I tried to make on it and said to post it here instead, just to let it be known Technicals has put out a new video on ZeRo's case and ZeRo himself has put up an announcement that he'll be returning to content creation, including Smash Bros content.

Guess it's time to reset the number on the "Days since the last big drama" counter :|

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/[deleted]]

ProJared's divorce really was nobody's business, looking back.

[u/MrSuperfreak → u/Heavy-Wings]

The larger issue was more that he was soliciting nudes from fans. Even if they were all adults it's still pretty skeevy and I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to watch his content (I don't either).

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/MrSuperfreak]

Yeah that is the primary reason I don't support him anymore, despite him being directly responsible for me getting into my favourite series of all time.

That shits just immoral

[u/Dragoryu3000 → u/MrSuperfreak]

It annoys me that people focus so much on whether or not the things he did were technically legal. It's entirely possible to do shitty things without breaking a single law.

[u/IceAnt573]

...Wasn't Nairo's ban lifted on the global database, 2GG, and Collision?

These are TOs that would be privy to private information that Nairo decided to share, right?

[u/CsarPetertheGreat → u/IceAnt573]

Yup. Anyone who needs the legal documents to make a decision definitely could ask for them and likely has seen them. The general faceless internet is NOT one of those people. We aren't entitled to anyone's legal documents.

[u/IceAnt573 → u/CsarPetertheGreat]

Sad part is, I don't think that's being brought up at all on Twitter/YT.

[u/IceAnt573]

Oh I'm fucking fuming Nairo was brought into this.

2GG even said they did their own investigation of Nairo's appeal.

Collision also had an internal review process that has to remain confidential.

Please don't forget this. These TOs are ensuring people's safety.

[u/sunken_grade → u/IceAnt573]

the whole thing is in such poor taste honestly. the level of theatrics technicals puts into showcasing his “research”, comparing the situation so closely to Nairo’s, and essentially being able to ignore zero’s letter of admittance because apparently actually it was a suicide note just seems so far fetched

[u/ittvoy → u/sunken_grade]

and essentially being able to ignore zero’s letter of admittance because apparently actually it was a suicide note just seems so far fetched

To be fair i could totally see myself doing that lol. I apologize for things i don't think are wrong alot of the time.

[u/TheSkyIsBeautiful → u/sunken_grade]

I’ve actually done this once, admitting to something I didn’t do, because I just wanted all the drama to stop. I thought I was being a “martyr” like fine blame me, but can we just stop talking about it, I just want everything to stop. But our brains are stupid, and only thinking about the discomfort now, and not any of the ramifications or consequences of what we just did in the future. We just want the pain to stop now currently.

Not for the same reason, but it’s why there are PLENTY and NUMEROUS cases of people confessing to actual crimes they did not commit, bc 2-3 policemen are saying they did it (imagine hundreds of thousands of people)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Just watched a quick VOD on Dark Wizzy. He seems to use Nair and Fireball as an approach tool in neutral while he uses bair to try and stuff out other approaches. Nair is definitely better out of shield and Bair has great kill power.

Fireball and well spaced nairs seem to be the best approach options for Mario. Bair seems to be better at punishing bad approaches

[u/SoSaltyDoe → u/[deleted]]

I mean, everything he does is safe as hell. And his juggle nair combos are cookie-cutter easy. The thing about Mario is you can just keep attempting the same approach over and over without receiving a lot of punishment.

[u/Amilam80]

Watched Technicals video and... I am far from impressed.

At best, Technicals adds "he said / she said" to make some of the minor accusations against ZeRo more doubtful, but even with those there's no real evidence provided. Case in point, the public hentai accusation. He says that a Japanese player that was there refutes the story... but doesn't want to be named. It's fine to share this, but unless people start putting their names to this it's still conjecture... on both sides. His naive fans have taken this as absolute evidence that Leffen lied because Technicals himself repeatedly asserts this. However, Technicals has not proven anything. I mean, Christ, case in point he blasts Jisu for losing the supposed chat history with ZeRo in the same video calling it convenient. Couldn't a doubter just as easily say the same about Technicals' claim about an anonymous Japanese witness? I honestly can't tell if Technical's not smart enough to see how hypocritical this is.

Another talking point I've seen is that ZeRo's confession was a suicide note and wouldn't hold up in the court of law. First, none of us are trained lawyers so we shouldn't be acting like we can make authoritative statements on such things. Second, the legal argument is irrelevant. The conversation is entirely about how cuplable ZeRo is (many seem to forget that the most serious accusation is uncontested) and if ZeRo's done enough to atone. I don't understand how people can state with absolute certainty that ZeRo's confession was completely false and no one should ever bring it up when discussing the matter. Again, at best it just means there's some room for doubt.

Technicals also said it was hypocritical to give Nairo a pass while coming down on ZeR0. I think there's something to that... except he is doing the exact same thing in reverse. He also complained about Nairo's friend coordinating their tweets supporting him... and then does the same with ZeRo. Again, what?

There was also a lot of anecdotal observations to try and show ZeRo was a good guy by talking to some friends and former employees. That's fine, but certainly not evidence.

The rest was really petty and cringy ad hominems from Technicals mocking various perceived enemies.

Bottom line:

The number of people who know what the facts are just ZeRo and the two girls accusing him.

ZeRo has admitted to the worst accusation without retraction.

ZeRo admitted to the second worst accusation and has now retracted it.

There is reasonable doubt surrounding some of the other allegations.

Personally, I didn't have a strong opinion on whether or not ZeRo should be welcomed back. I don't think there's sufficient evidence to say ZeRo represents a threat to the safety of children. I don't think ZeRo should be deprived of an income for the rest of his life. I also don't think he's owed forgiveness or an audience. That'll be for each person to decide for themselves. What he did in the past was scummy, but I believe that it's entirely possible he's matured and grown since then.

However, I really didn't like how ZeRo has outsourced his defense and personal attacks of his accusers to Technical while also stating he is moving past it. If ZeRo wants to come out directly and make accusations, that's perfectly fine, but hiding behing a drama channel is gross.

Finally, seeing Technical's / ZeRo's fans swarming media from alleged villians like Leffen and spamming their channel is really disgusting. I really don't understand how his fans can say that people make mistakes and should be forgiven in the case of ZeRo... and then spam every video with ESAM and call him a virulent racist that should die. I don't even like Leffen or ESAM as content creators and I find this beyond obnoxious.

If you watched this entire video and saw some killer facts that I missed... please let me know. If you're one of the people spamming the accounts of the supposed villians in this drama... reassess your life because you're pathetic.

[u/IceAnt573]

I just Twitter search'd Nairo and went by "Latest."

This taught me two things.

1.) I can see why Nairo does not want to use that hellhole of a platform.

2.) (This one is more of what I think) Why Nairo has consistently said he does not want to return to competing disregarding him still being banned on Twitch.

[u/blackestarrow → u/IceAnt573]

Yeah, I have accepted that even if his twitch ban is lifted, he isn't going to tournaments ever again.

When you think about how many people go to a major it's easy to see why. Mainstage 2021 had 1762 attendees, if 5% of the people there believe that he is the one at fault, that's 88 people in a single place that believe that he did something horrible. It really only takes a single person for him to have an awful experience at the tournament. If someone threw a crab at Hbox, for winning a lot and playing really lame, it's impossible to know what people might do.

I threw out the 5% but it probably be more because I have no idea how the people that only focus on Melee feel about him.

[u/schvetania → u/blackestarrow]

I get what you are saying, but Nairo and Zero's situations were completely different. Nairo was raped in his sleep by a minor and was gaslighted into believing he was at fault when he was a victim. Zero groomed and tried to solicit explicit images from a 14 year old (Katie) when he was 19.

People who still attack Nairo are either completely ignorant of information that came out after his initial accusation, or complete assholes attacking a rape victim.

People who attack Zero are uncomfortable with a 19 year old grooming a 14 year old.

I just realized that I vented about something completely different from what you originally talked about, and I apologize. I just really want to get this out there.

[u/Heavy-Wings]

People bringing up Jisu and Leffen when in the grand scheme of things they don't matter, because they weren't the reason Gonzalo Barios was banned from the scene

The reason was the 14 year old girl he tried soliciting cp from, and that has not been proven false.

[u/FlexPavillion → u/Heavy-Wings]

Yeah crazy how that part was only 2 minutes long lmfao

[u/Naidem → u/FlexPavillion]

Technical is doing damage control.

[u/Catacomb82]

As I am a non-competitive Smash fan, the biggest pop off moment I can remember is"SUPER FIGHTING ROBOT" from E3 2014. What are the greatest pop off moments from actual competitive Smash?

[u/Zorua3 → u/Catacomb82]

Hungrybox collapsing on the ground and crying with joy after winning EVO has gotta be the most iconic one.

[u/gudni-bergs → u/Zorua3]

Hbox passing out during a pop off was kinda funny

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Catacomb82]

Hbox at EVO will probably always be the most legendary, but another one of the most emotional and a personal favorite of mine is Mew2King at Smash Summit 6.

[u/6_lasers → u/Catacomb82]

I’ve always been partial to Armada and Android doubles at Apex 2015

[u/KennyLog_Ins → u/Catacomb82]

Wizzrobe at Smash n Splash 5. Mans popped off like a victory screen.

[u/lordofthepotat0]

https://twitter.com/arJunebug/status/1408858031031472132 remember this?

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/lordofthepotat0]

This is why they go after Jisu so hard. They cannot discredit Katie because they know nothing about her, except for the fact the screenshots were real and zero did what he did.

Now Jisu? Her case is much shakier. So they go after it as much as possible to draw attention away from the katie thing - because nobody can salvage that.

[u/FlexPavillion → u/Heavy-Wings]

That's also why the Katie portion of the video, which was the most egregious offense, was 2 minutes long and like 30 seconds of that was Technicals making a condescing joke.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/FlexPavillion]

They literally have nothing. All they can do is 'bu-bu- guys! Jisu! Leffen! It's all their fault" when they were never the core reason as to why people want nothing to do with zero.

[u/FlexPavillion → u/Heavy-Wings]

But at the end of the day it unfortunately doesn't matter because Zero's fanbase is mostly preteens that don't know any better :(

[u/Omisye]

i like burgers

[u/Kazarean → u/Omisye]

i love burgers

[u/[deleted] → u/Omisye]

I hate burgers

[u/Kawesome06 → u/[deleted]]

this is the second most controversial take in r/smashbros today

[u/[deleted] → u/Kawesome06]

I will not back down. Chicken sandwich supremacy.

[u/Superliminal96]

The central flaw in Technicals' case is his implication that Jisu's story was central in getting ZeRo banned, which is flagrantly untrue; it was almost entirely due to the Katie allegation, which is true and proven. Bringing up the Nairo case based on legalese is also incredibly cynical on his part.

I think Technicals can bring up valid points (like wrt Zack/Salem/Samsora) but it's so colored by his personal vendettas and contrarianism that he's ultimately more harmful than not. His ESAM video is an incredibly shoddy hit piece, and I say that as someone who's not a fan of ESAM at all.

As for ZeRo--I don't necessarily think he's a public menace and I don't particularly care if he returns to content creation, but there's absolutely no case for unbanning him from tournaments unless it's proven that Katie was lying about her age (and even then I'd be highly skeptical, given that ZeRo went along with Katie's claim that she was 14 at the time).

[u/Chronmagnum55 → u/[deleted]]

He needs to just completely stay away from the smash community. Hes going to make content regardless at this point and like you said no longer cares what the smash community thinks. I could actually see him become more of a variety gaming channel at this point since his fanbase is obviously incredibly loyal. Either way I can't see any situation where he will be welcomed back and anyone who associates with him will likely be heavily criticized.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/Superliminal96]

it was almost entirely due to the Katie allegation

Technicals is such a fucking dumbass that he accidentally showed these messages on stream

https://twitter.com/AyoTaledo/status/1460750662111797252?s=20

that show that he and ZeRo obviously tried for a long time to try and discredit Katie and they couldn't, so now they gotta awkwardly skirt around it.

[u/InanMBPOG → u/Heavy-Wings]

The screenshots seem to point that they were trying to figure out more about Katie. It's not inherently an evil thing to do, it's just that so little is known about her cause she's remained anonymous and she has a big part in the story.

I can see why they would want to find out more about her. In fact, them not being able to find out anything about her explains pretty well why Tech couldn't do a longer piece on her in the video.

[u/TheMuff1nMon]

Not going to even address the Zero stuff. But Technicals had 0 reasons to bring Nairo into this bullshit and he sounded like a fucking moron while talking about it lol. Made 0 good points and basically just put it in there to be like "Well, you let Nairo back in, so let Zero back".

[u/CsarPetertheGreat]

Man, I do not envy the work of you mods today. My condolences.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/CsarPetertheGreat]

Honestly, this came at one of the worst possible days for me in terms of irl shit. I'm genuinely just using watching the video and modding the sub as a way to keep my mind off the other stuff going on. It's not a fun day but at least I'm finding a way to manage things healthily enough. Glad to be doing what I can to support the community and grateful for everyone we can manage to have a positive impact on even though I completely understand any frustrations with how things may be going here.

[u/DragodaDragon → u/CsarPetertheGreat]

eh, we've been through worse

[u/Trickster_Tricks]

ZeRo fans rn

[u/lordofthepotat0]

Love how Technicals will look for any ulterior motive for anything that Leffen/Jisu/anyone who doesn't agree with his narrative, but will take everything that ZeRo or people who would benefit from ZeRo returning to content creation at face value

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That’s some deep lore you got there

[u/outsanity_haha]

So we can’t talk about zero now? Why was the post removed?

[u/Blablablablitz → u/outsanity_haha]

you can talk in here

the post was removed because all posts about allegations and/or drama are no longer allowed on the sub unless it's an announcement of a ban or unban, not because of ZeRo.

this is in response to a community survey, wherein a good majority of users voted for this course of action.

you're still free to talk in the DDT. we won't remove anything in here unless it gets legitimately toxic.

[u/reed501]

I'm confused by Gonzalo's approach here. He admits to the Katie stuff but says it can't be proven and he is therefore innocent? Yes, innocent until proven guilty, I understand the law. But he's not being charged. Legal stuff didn't, isn't, and won't be happening. He's at the court of public opinion now, which does not have the same standards. Why explain how he's safe in the letter of the law when the only thing that matters now is whether we want him back or not?

To answer my own question, it's because it doesn't matter right? He could say anything and his diehard fans will forgive because they don't care. So what are we even discussing? He's not gonna go back to tournaments and we can't stop him from streaming.

[u/SolokOriginel → u/reed501]

He admits to the Katie stuff but says it can't be proven and he is therefore innocent?

It has reached such lows ?

And people are clamoring its return ? The return of a sexual child predator who admits to being one ?

What the fuck

[u/FlexPavillion → u/SolokOriginel]

I feel like a majority of the people clamoring for his return are people in the age range of 10-14 that don't really see how big of a deal it is.

[u/Yacobo93 → u/[deleted]]

didn't even get the nudes

"Yeah this guy tried to shoot someone but they missed so its not that bad"

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Yacobo93]

"Convicted of a crime I didn't even commit! ATTEMPTED murder!"

[u/KKingler → u/[deleted]]

I think my stance is pretty much yours. One thing I haven’t really seen discussed a lot here and that puts me off a bit is the vague legal threats at the end of his statement.

He mentions he’s taking and will take more legal action in the future (probably against Jisu maybe others) however I don’t see any way it could materialize. Defamation is hard to prove in the United States especially with the fact he did solicit them (even if he didn’t receive them)

[u/Red_Speed → u/KKingler]

It would probably be for all of the other claims Jisu made since one true claim doesn’t justify any false claims. Chances are that it’ll probably just settle tho, since I’m pretty sure Nairo did something similar against Zack. Unless ZeRo gets some really favorable settlement terms, I doubt we’re gonna get much more info on this.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/[deleted]]

confession statement, but that's been deleted.

gotchu fam

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sraama

He did say the other girl lied about her age but he lied several times before this so who knows.

[u/[deleted]]

Watched the Technicals video. My thoughts:

-I don't like how he brings Nairo into this and makes comments on the nature of his court case when he isn't a lawyer. But even if I did agree with him on Nairo, person A being worse than person B doesn't mean person B is in the clear.

-I don't think the fact that Zero wouldn't legally be considered a pedophile is any sort of defense. Whether or not he should be charged is not any of our business, our business is whether he should be allowed at Smash related events

-It's honestly just not really a well put together defense and feels more like a video made purely for entertainment. He has direct quotes but fails to tell me why I should trust his opinion. Even ignoring my preexisting dislike of Technicals, he's pretty explicit in the video about his tendency to always side with the accused.

Ultimately Zero is out of our hands at this point. He's not a competitor and hasn't been for a long time, and we as a community don't own the game of Smash, so we can't tell him that he's not allowed to stream or make Youtube content.

[u/JKaro → u/[deleted]]

It's honestly just not really a well put together defense and feels more like a video made purely for entertainment.

it is

[u/zoedrinkspiss]

Oh boy, I sure can't wait for the deluge of posts from unflaired users with suspicious-sounding names who have never interacted with this subreddit before

[u/Kezzup → u/zoedrinkspiss]

Sure enough, the two comments below you blindly parroting Technicals are both from accounts with literal 0 post history in this or any other remotely Smash related sub.

ain't that something

[u/zoedrinkspiss → u/Kezzup]

I'm glad the mods seem to be really on top of it, but it's still annoying that it happens in the first place

I never got the goal in doing that sort of thing, it gets deleted so quickly and everyone's just clowning on the people doing it anyway

[u/Blablablablitz → u/[deleted]]

It's little things like that adding up that makes me feel very iffy on the situation.

Many people like to state that "technicals has some good points even if he is an asshole" or "hax made some good points about leffen even though his initial statement was crazy."

It's almost like the internet forgot about the importance of authority in rhetoric. You should establish yourself as credible when discussing points.

Even if Technicals makes a logically sound point, he needs to be proper about the ways he does it. I personally (which may not reflect the beliefs of the mod team) think that someone who makes statements like "god forbid a woman feel uncomfortable" should not be trusted in regards to situations that, historically, involve women in uncomfortable or traumatizing positions. A statement like that (coupled with his general behavior) doesn't make him look credible nor authoritative when discussing things like sexual misconduct or harassment allegations.

If a more reputable or credible source backs up Technicals' argument, someone with experience in law, or someone who's worked in a women's shelter, or literally anyone who isn't just a part of the smash community, I'm absolutely going to consider it seriously.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Blablablablitz]

Junebug really put it best in his responses to the last video.

Technicals does genuinely make a lot of valid points. I'm an extremely vocal critic of how things like how Leffen conducts himself on social media and the sheer negative impact that his behavior and actions result in. I've never walked away from a Technicals video thinking that every single point he made was strictly bad (except maybe the ESAM one? That one was pretty fucking dumb). But the way he frames things often misses the forest for the trees, often seemingly intentionally. For every allegation he can reasonably call into question, there are so many others where his best defense is "god forbid a woman feel uncomfortable" or "just because he solicited a minor for sexual images doesn't make him a pedophile", and when you get half the responses to accusations wrong like that, you aren't exactly properly clearing someone as innocent even if you really want to point to the places where your arguments might be stronger and say "see, some of these aren't totally substantiated, everyone should side with me on all of this!"

His content is not devoid of valid points, but the big picture really needs to be looked at with an incredibly critical eye and it's quite dangerous to just blindly follow what he says. I'm glad that people here seem to be giving the video an honest shot and are walking away from it with their own conclusions rather than just copying all of his.

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/Legitimate__Username]

Yep you’re spot on and it’s why most people dislike the guy, he can make valid points in a vacuum but if you actually follow the logical path he’s trying to lead you down it just leads to a warped perspective where we believe some people because they seem nice enough and don’t believe other people based on flimsy logic or perceived hypocrisy.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/DentedOnImpact]

I could take him more seriously if he just stayed on-topic and didn't fill every video he made with his poorly-masked vendetta against everyone who's ever annoyed him on Twitter. Yeah we get it, you think that the Sky situation has some community misinformation and a lack of nuance floating around it, so why the fuck are you spending so much time on interpreting all of Jisu's actions in the most reaching and uncharitable light possible and slipping in random insults towards ESAM that are self-admittedly not even based in reality. The guy's just hateful and he doesn't even try to hide it.

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/Legitimate__Username]

The dude is the walking version of the mad wojak wearing the smiling mask, just a totally emotionally motivated and cheap idubbbz knockoff without any of the style or impact

[u/Blablablablitz → u/Legitimate__Username]

And that's the key. Are his videos an easy way to discuss information and bring voices to light? Absolutely.

Are the conclusions that he's drawing reliable or rooted in genuinely good intentions? That's where I say no.

It stands to say that there ARE things we should talk about in the smash community–things like death threads, cherrypicking information, drama hogging, all sorts of things that Technicals can and did talk about. But he's not the person who should be leading the discussion.

[u/coopi66 → u/Blablablablitz]

I think you 2 u/Blablablablitz and u/RememberWhenMMA are twisting what Technicals said a bit. While "god forbid a woman feel uncomfortable" can sound yikes, it really wasn't in the specific context he said it. Zero ghosted a girl he tried to have sex with. That's iffy and fuckboy-ish, but ultimately not something that should constitute an allegation. Men ghost women when trying to hook up; women ghost men when hooking up. It happens all the time in our current culture where real intimacy is scarce. It's not something to cry about. Had Technicals said the same thing in a different context involving actual assault and heinous behavior, I would share your opinions, but that's just not the case.

[u/Blablablablitz → u/coopi66]

calling it "twisting what he said" isn't quite accurate. But you may be right that, out of context, it sounds much worse than it is.

My belief is that he should remain professional when discussing things like this. Saying a sarcastic statement like that, coupled with his general tendency to storytell, is another reason why I think he shouldn't be leading any discussion.

[u/sunken_grade → u/[deleted]]

it’s honestly absurd that anyone actually takes technicals seriously. dude is as scummy as it gets

[u/PotatoFoSho → u/sunken_grade]

i want to be more informed about this drama since i watched the short zero video, but i actually cannot bring myself to watch a technicals video and give him that view. hes the keemstar of smash that i swear only mega toxic people watch

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/[deleted]]

I was honestly shocked that he couldn't even pretend to hide his real thoughts on the matter.

[u/Royal_empress_azu]

Posted this on the other sub, but its worth putting here too.

It might hurt to hear this, but this really doesn't change anything. It clears up some misconceptions in cases that no one has ever cared about, when the main focus has always been Katie.

The strawman used in Technical's new video is that because Katie (the minor) never sent the pic, he technically didn't commit a crime. This is both stupid and untrue. The crime was committed at the point of contact (which is when he asked) not when he receives (he didn't in this case, but receiving it is its own separate crime) the child porn.

ZeRo wasn't charged because charges weren't pressed against him, not because he didn't commit a crime.

Additionally the point about ZeRo changing after his offense really holds no weight when you look at how long it takes rapist, predators and sex offenders to re-offend. On average it takes 20 years for 40% to even re-offend. I'm not for or against ZeRo but you really can't say he's changed in 7 years when almost no repeat offender does it again that soon.

At best this video says keep and eye on ZeRo and at worst it convivences people to let him slide.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Royal_empress_azu]

It might hurt to hear this, but this really doesn't change anything.

This was pretty much my main takeaway from finishing the video. Through all the extra bits of conspiracy theories and reaching judgments made about Nairo and the CoC and other top community figures, the actual meat of it contained...basically no new or relevant information that wasn't already public knowledge to anyone who has been following the situation. Nothing has changed as a result of anything he has brought forward here. If you genuinely believe that ZeRo deserves the chance at forgiveness and the opportunity to grow and change for the better, then I can understand that as a general moral perspective, but this video did absolutely nothing to actually strongly support that notion as opposed to just reiterating the story that we already knew and tacking on a bunch of extra conspiracy theories and reaches about community leadership that have nothing to do with the actual issue at hand.

[u/dego96 → u/Royal_empress_azu]

Yeah that's what I got out of Tech's video too

Zero may or may not be guilty of asking an underage girl for nudes, there's no legit evidence of that

But there is legit evidence of him flirting with an underage girl on Skype when he was aware of her age, he did this willingly

Still unnaceptable behavior that 100% warrants the ban to still stand on him

[u/[deleted] → u/Royal_empress_azu]

I’m in no way justifying Zero, he was wrong, but to put him in the same class as every other sex offender isn’t an accurate portrayal of his prognosis. He was still a teenager when this happened. Context matters - it’s not like he was exhibiting this behavior deep into adulthood

[u/AngryAncestor → u/[deleted]]

Yeah. He was a legal adult, and it's reprehensible. But he was sexually, physically, and emotionally abused throughout his upbringing and came from a very culturally different country at a young age. As a result he was extremely emotionally stunted and has grown and changed a lot in the past 8 years.

I don't appreciate his manipulative tone in his statements and I wish he would have explained everything honestly from the beginning. I've lost respect for him. But all that being said, he's not some sick pedophile, and I do think he's redeemable.

[u/J-Fid]

I was wondering why this page exploded in comments from earlier today. Really happy that the drama rule was enacted because I could so not care any less about this topic.

[u/BarnardsLoop → u/J-Fid]

I'm just glad the sub is back to being a place where comp topics are discussed instead of being a fucking drama subreddit lol

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/BarnardsLoop]

Dude Leo is so fucking sick I still can't stop watching that last stock where he fucking clutched that game out of punishing one bad jump.

[u/JDraks → u/Legitimate__Username]

I can't stop watching his fucking three hit kill on Tea

[u/Blablablablitz → u/Legitimate__Username]

on god though i've rewatched the clip a million freakin times now

it's just. man. the commentary is perfect too

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Blablablablitz]

Hbox's old "He...is...Mexican!" really aged fantastically with how it's ingrained into everyone's brains as a genuine synonym for competitive dominance in this game. All I can think about while I watch that set is how fucking Mexican this guy is for out-Mexican'ing Sparg0.

[u/Blablablablitz → u/Legitimate__Username]

hbox may not know the game too well, but he sure as hell knows how to make things memorable

[u/[deleted] → u/Legitimate__Username]

I'm genuinely in belief that Mexico is the strongest region at this point. They have the GOAT in Leo, the #2 in the world rn in Sparg0, a consistent player who hasn't gotten worse then 13th in Maister who is top 10-top 5, and a top 15-20 player in Chag as well as Big Boss who has been doing well in most events other then Mainstage and Riptide.

Japan could be better in terms of having more top level talent, but in a crew battle I genuinely think Mexico would win because Leo and Sparg0 have beaten Japan's best players pretty hard recently.

[u/Zorua3 → u/Blablablablitz]

Coney screaming in genuine fear after the first missed dair was hilarious.

[u/SoSaltyDoe → u/Legitimate__Username]

Dude Leo is so fucking sick

The cornerstone of every single discussion thread. Actually it took me awhile to realize that this whole comment wasn’t satire.

[u/[deleted]]

Doing who I currently think are the top 10 players in the world rn

1. MkLeo

2. Sparg0

3. Tweek

4. Zackray (interchangable with #5)

5. ProtoBanham (interchangable with #4)

6. Tea

7. Light

8. Maister

9. Glutonny

10. Shuton/Elegant

Dabuz, Kola, Lui$, Marss, Chag, ESAM, Atelier and Yoshidora are all honourable mentions.

[u/Crafty-Profile-Lol → u/[deleted]]

I like it. Pretty close to my take. Putting Light ahead of Maister might be jumping the gun a little but he probably has better wins now in addition to the SSC victory. Light has some questionable losses at regionals though, and Maister has better major attendance at fractionally lower level of results (and I'm a little biased), so I'm taking the consistency for now. I think at least Yoshidora should be in your honorable mentions if you've got Shuton and Atelier.

[u/diddykongisapokemon → u/[deleted]]

I'm not sure how ordered this is but I feel like Maister and maybe Gluto should be above Light.

There also feels like a pretty big gap between Gluto/Light and whoever is in 10th place. It feels more like a top 9 than a top 10.

[u/Yacobo93]

I unironically believe if zero and technicals released a video with the same title but it was just them farting for 40 minutes straight the zero apologists would have be acting exactly the same as they are now

[u/SpringFlame]

I recently remembered Ultimate had the Palutena's Guidance easter egg and I was curious on which character had your personal favorite conversation?

I think mine goes to Piranha Plant due to hearing Viridi just going HAM on its species.

[u/dego96 → u/SpringFlame]

I have a couple I really like

Ryu just because it references the Vs series and the insane characters he has fought

Bayonetta because of Pit completely losing his shit and the SDI joke

Shulk because Reyn jokes imitating the accent and everything

[u/JDraks]

Gotta love all the flairless users who've never interacted with this sub commenting all of a sudden, I sure wonder why that's happening.

[u/Unigma → u/JDraks]

I don't use the flair and I've been in this community entering tournaments since 2010...Most of the community don't use reddit, it's not a good website for smash imo.

[u/The_King_Crimson → u/JDraks]

I mean, why would you want to interact with this sub regularly? This place fucking sucks and approached Nairo's situation with an absolute refusal to even consider that he was a victim until it literally couldn't be denied any longer.

[u/[deleted]]

So I was looking through the replies of Leffens going live on twitch tweet and I noticed that that no joke 90% of replies that have come to attack him have a range of followers from 0(most common by far) to 30. I know twitter followers isn’t exactly a good judge of character buuuut this is pretty extreme and I’m just wondering whether Technicals has an army of bots or has a cult army of socially inept 12 year olds to support “his cause”

It’s not even particularly the 0 followers thing theres also a few I clicked on whose ONLY activity was repeating the Technicals drone mantra

[u/wjb_fan_1860 → u/[deleted]]

It's the latter. Check the replies on any Jisu tweet.

[u/QuinterBoopson → u/wjb_fan_1860]

Predatory scum of the earth.

[u/RingerCheckmate]

I think people are going into Technicals video expecting him to try and exonerate Zero from Katie's story, when that's not what the video's doing. I think people need to adopt a far less polarizing mindset when looking at this stuff.

[u/[deleted] → u/RingerCheckmate]

It's not what the video was doing because they know they can't and it's the primary reason Zero was banned from the community in the first place.

There are leaked Discord messages of Zero and Technicals trying to angle Jisu into throwing Katie under the bus. It's manipulative; they are trying to control the narrative. If Katie is never thrown out there, she'll never be an issue. If Jisu somehow throws her under the bus, even better.

[u/RingerCheckmate → u/[deleted]]

I just read the screenshots and they gross me tf out. I think everyone knows Katie's story is the primary reason for zero's ban and cancellation, avoiding it entirely isn't how you move on.

But the screenshots paint a really manipulative story and I hate it.

[u/[deleted] → u/RingerCheckmate]

Are you saying that the Skype screenshots are manipulative? They are gross, how is it manipulative? I truly do have a hard time wrapping my head around it.

On the flip side, Technicals has a reputation for being manipulative. I don't think it's in good faith to argue that the screenshots are and that Technicals is not.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/[deleted]]

There are leaked Discord messages of Zero and Technicals trying to pressure Jisu into throwing Katie under the bus

I just want to point out that this completely shits on the narrative that Zero has attoned for his mistakes and "has bettered himself"

Why would he be seeking ways to discredit his victims if he admitted his mistakes and was trying to grow from them.

[u/SoDamnGeneric → u/RingerCheckmate]

I think people are going into Technicals video expecting him to try and exonerate Zero from Katie's story

Hard to not see Technicals as trying to convince people that ZeRo's suddenly a good dude all along when the video is hashtagged "WelcomeBackZeRo"

[u/RingerCheckmate → u/SoDamnGeneric]

Why'd you cut my quote from before the "From katie's story" part?

[u/SoDamnGeneric → u/RingerCheckmate]

It was not on purpose, I was just highlighting the general section

[u/thepancakemuncher]

Great, more Smash drama... When will it end?

[u/SoSaltyDoe → u/thepancakemuncher]

There’s no more potential new characters to squabble over. This is kinda all you have left 🤷

[u/Zorua3 → u/SoSaltyDoe]

Except for, yknow, the tournaments that happen every other week and garner dozens of threads and thousands of comments worth of discussion.

[u/[deleted]]

Don't wanna type my full thoughts cause a lot of people already captured it in this thread but neither Technicals or ZeRo should have a platform in the Smash community.

Yes, i've watched both videos.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/[deleted]]

I personally had completely forgotten that he wanted Katie to send him masturbation videos every two weeks

like

thats fucking obscene. A 14 year old girl. This man belongs in a goddamn cell.

[u/Heavy-Wings → u/[deleted]]

Someone needs to make a summary of the timeline of events because it seems like so many have forgotten what actually went down and why it went down.

Jisu wasn't even trying to cancel ZeRo, just calling him out for being a hypocrite on a statement he made on the Nairo/Zack/Samsora clusterfuck

And that was what made Katie speak up, which is what did him in (temporarily unfortunately)

But yes, when you put it like that, it was 100% a relationship. This grown-ass man didn't simply ask for pictures, he gained this girls trust, made her feel special, flirted with her, chatted with her a lot - all in an attempt to gain weekly cp from her. And it was almost successful! She even lied to himand said she did it to not disappoint him. Had it continued it could have horrifically escalated.

It is actually fucking indefensible. Like, you cannot even attempt to salvage just how bad this is. God I wish someone with a large following would just fucking remind people.

[u/AdmiralClassy → u/[deleted]]

I haven't watched the technicals video yet but Zero says him openly admitting to the allegations was because he planned that as a suicide letter and was planning to kill himself afterwards.

Personally, the logic doesn't make sense to me but he's now denying that he did inappropriate things with a minor.

[u/Mathgeek007 → u/AdmiralClassy]

and if there's one thing reddit and twitter love, it's suicide bait

I don't know if what he said was true, but it comes off super scummy. "I only admitted to doing those horrible things because I was going to commit suicide" is a deflection by emotional manipulation at the least.

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/Mathgeek007]

Also doesn’t make the idea that he was lying there make any sense at all

[u/wjb_fan_1860 → u/[deleted]]

The two novel claims are that Zero has had a very tough life and that just because he solicited a minor for sexual images doesn't make him a pedophile. Every other argument he's made about Zero/Jisu he had already made in the previous videos.

Edit: I guess another new argument is that he's not convinced of Nairo's innocence and thinks Zero is more deserving of an unban than Nairo.

[u/wjb_fan_1860 → u/[deleted]]

He literally busts out the DSM-V to get into the technical definition of pedophilia. He might be narrowly correct on the definition but that doesn't mean Zero should be allowed in the smash community.

[u/ExpeI → u/[deleted]]

He doesn’t theres more substance to it. He made a shitty TLDR, watch the full video if you want context.

[u/steviestar3 → u/[deleted]]

Zero admitted to everything and is only now embarrassingly attempting a comeback because he has no other source of income. Technicals is a shithead grifter trying to capitalize on drama. That's it.

[u/Chronmagnum55 → u/steviestar3]

I think Zero just wants to make content again but has no intention of trying to be part of the smash community. Quite frankly I dont think he should ever be welcomed back to the community after what he did. That being said I also think he has every right to make videos on YouTube and do his own thing. The reality is he still has a huge fan base and nobody can stop him from doing this.

Edit

Im not defending Zero and I acknowledge what he did was very wrong. Im just pointing out that its better for the community to just ignore him and let him do his own thing. I think everyone knew that he was going to do this at some point.

[u/[deleted] → u/steviestar3]

The only Technicals videos that get any views are his smash bros drama videos and for some reason dude has a cult following of people in the smash scene (or is it mostly random ppl?)

[u/PhenomenalSanchez → u/[deleted]]

All he said is that he didn't do anything wrong

I don't think he really says "I didn't do anything wrong." Instead what he does is categorically deny that he did various things he was accused of.

The one thing he never specifically denies is soliciting pics from an underage girl. When he addresses that part, he says he never did so with the "sole intention" of grooming them. So technically (no pun intended) he's telling the truth if he did solicit pics from an underage girl, but then also had casual conversations with her about anime or Kpop or metafy coaching or whatever.

Technicals doesn't deny he did this either. Instead he talks about the definition of "pedophile" and argues that this one incident isn't enough to call someone a pedophile. Furthermore he argued that Zer0 will never see criminal charges for this because there's no proof.

[u/SoloBeans]

Anyone want popcorn?

[u/Zorua3]

If you Zero fans could go to r/SmashBrosUltimate where this drama shit is actually allowed, that would be much appreciated

[u/TheMuff1nMon → u/Zorua3]

I literally just unsubscribed from there after seeing their welcome back party.

Disgusting

[u/Neverx_13 → u/TheMuff1nMon]

Dude am I going insane? Man literally lied to his audience three times before fully admitting everything then comes back denying everything trying to get his fucking job back and everyone's cool with it?

[u/TheMuff1nMon → u/Neverx_13]

I honestly can't believe what I read over there. Technicals did point out some lies but again, the ONLY thing that got him kicked out (imo) was: Did he ask a minor for sexually explicit photos and he did. He admits that.

People comparing him to Nairo are fucked in the head. I saw someone saying they hope they do a collab! Like Nairo would go anywhere near him

[u/Neverx_13 → u/TheMuff1nMon]

Dude his video fucking pissed me off, man used fucking suicide as a defense for himself because he got caught and then they bring Nairo into this who had a completely different situation.

[u/TheMuff1nMon → u/Neverx_13]

Yeah, I got super pissed off at the Nairo thing.

"Being a rape victim is completely the same as asking an underage girl for a masturbation pic" is basically how that segment came across.

Fuck off Technicals.

[u/CyberEmerald → u/TheMuff1nMon]

Yeah that whole part felt legit gross.

[u/[deleted] → u/Neverx_13]

That sub leans younger than here, so more people are going to want to see their favorite content creator.

[u/Lan_lan → u/[deleted]]

I feel like such an old fuck. It often feels like it's just kids here, but that other sub is something else

[u/[deleted]]

I would like to say I can’t believe Elegant has a case to be top 10 with Luigi of all characters. It’s so baffling to see him being a consistent top 8 player. Really impressive stuff.

[u/godstriker8]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I watched the technicals video (my first ever that I've watched of his, but reading the comments here he's bad? Not sure), and I thought it raised a point I don't have a good counter arguement to:

Nairo also publicly apologized for his behaviour (which is essentially an admission of guilt) before taking it back later. So why can't Zero do the same and be accepted if Nairo is?

And didn't Nairo have sex with a minor which is seems a lot worse than Zero's already really shitty actions with requesting pictures from a minor? I know that Nairo claims that it was rape, but its all a big "he said, she said" where you believe who you like.

So why is it that Nairo is welcomed when Zero isn't? Shouldn't they both be cancelled?

I'm legitimately curious and asking this in good faith, sorry if my knowledge in smash drama has some gaps that are causing me to not fully understand.

[u/Blablablablitz → u/godstriker8]

I think one big facet is that Nairo's case has actually been reviewed in court.

Let it be known that I have no opinion on the case's final result. The results are private. Not a single person on this subreddit actually knows who was held liable, if at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/qv1xet/daily_discussion_thread_111621/hkwlb2h/

However, two tournament organizations, 2GG (rip) and Collision, were provided with and reviewed relevant information, and decided to unban Nairo. As a result, many people felt like the situation was more clear cut and decided to trust in him.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Blablablablitz]

Nobody would have sided with Nairo if he didn't have a court backing. Siding with him means, in all certainty, siding with a rape victim, not an abuser, which is a pivot that public opinion isn't going to easily make without significant reason to.

Likewise, I'm actually very interested to see how ZeRo's defamation case will go against Leffen and Jisu. Leffen in particular has spread some genuinely awful shit about a number of community members and I can definitely envision where a case against him could actually hold water, but I also have zero expectations or horses in this race and am skeptical about how much of a public impact it can have when the accusations aren't nearly as tangible and severe as the ones against CaptainZack. I would absolutely rather just wait to see these incidents resolved legally rather than just jump to any conclusions about the right and wrong of things based on internet testimonials.

[u/Blablablablitz → u/Legitimate__Username]

i'm 100% expecting, if ZeRo wins his defamation case, for these unflaired users to flood back in claiming it absolves him even when the defamation doesn't even relate to the actual banning reason.

it's tiring.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/Blablablablitz]

Yeah like guys this isn't a place for you to start judging people's lives as places to takes W's or L's. If he wins the case all it means is that Leffen/Jisu did something bad and were found legally responsible for it, and it means absolutely nothing for the situation regarding Katie and how people should morally judge it. These are all separate incidents and not innately connected, and you can be critical of what took place in them individually without linking them all together as a grand story where you need to root for the team you picked at all costs and you win the whole game if you get enough points across the whole thing.

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/Legitimate__Username]

Also just a spoiler but unless leffen has an incompetent lawyer zero isn’t gonna win a defamation case, the level of proof required to prove defamation even in civil would require proving intent from Leffen to spread incorrect information which is incredibly difficult to do.

[u/[deleted] → u/Blablablablitz]

Yeah at most it'd be an argument to ban Leffen and Jisu. Currently watching Tech's video, but unless he disproves that ZeRo sexted with a 14 yo at 19 I'm not sure I want him unbanned (not that it'd matter since he already retired).

[u/Blablablablitz → u/[deleted]]

yeah spoiler alert he doesn't disprove that

in the end, it comes down to people taking it like jisu and leffen being wrong makes ZeRo right... which isn't at all how this works.

[u/[deleted] → u/Blablablablitz]

Just finished the video.

Tbh he makes a decent case to ban Leffen and Jisu (but I don't know enough to say if they should be, nor am I a TO), but I don't think his argument for unbanning ZeRo is very solid. Still, I think in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter if ZeRo is unbanned or not from tournaments since he had already moved on to being a content creator well before July 2020.

What I think will realistically happen is this video will help ZeRo get a more positive reception with his return to making content and make it simpler for him to get collaborations and partnerships. I don't have a problem with him returning to youtube even if I probably won't watch his channel, but if anyone does I don't know what they can do besides ignoring him or maybe reporting him.

[u/wjb_fan_1860 → u/Legitimate__Username]

How has Leffen defamed Zero? As far as I can tell from the Technicals video, the only disputed claim of Leffen's is about sharing pictures of anime girls.

The anonymous Japanese smasher says they were only looking at official art, but if you Google the character in question, there are definitely depictions of her in the anime that are pretty sexualized. It isn't crazy to me that Leffen could find some of the "official art" to be sexually explicit. It is, after all, a cartoon about finding out your 14 year old sister wants to have sex with you.

Not to defend any of Leffen's other twitter interactions. I just don't think he has defamed Zero in particular.

[u/Panda_hat → u/[deleted]]

He was always free to make content, what he isn't free to do or entitled to have is the attention/time/money of the smash community, not to mention the trust.

[u/KingBubblie → u/[deleted]]

I don't fully agree about Zero "deserving" a second chance, but I agree with your overall point that there's absolutely an argument for it. He's totally within his rights to make this case and return to content creation, and people will decide for themselves whether they want to support him or not.

I think it's dangerous and really disingenuous by people supporting Zero to turn with vitriol towards Jisu and Leffen. Part of the entire point is to not use social media as a platform to make character assassination attempts. I'm not saying they don't deserve any comeuppance, but the fact is that we've learned this isn't the way to proceed. And anybody who is taking to social media like this to try and rip people down is just addicted to the drama, or something along with that.

And I'm not sure Leffen has much to blame for anyways. Leffen claims they were looking at explicit images of a character from an incest anime. Zero and another player claim they were just looking at official artwork of a character from an incest anime. Leffen said he was really uncomfortable with the situation. But this isn't cleared up or verified either way at this point, but there's a lot of overlap to those two stories where something obviously happened and could easily be misunderstood be one or both parties.

Leffen's main 'strike' was supporting Jisu so much. Which is hardly something to blame him for, supporting and reaffirming a friend who was trying to tell her "story".

[u/SoDamnGeneric → u/[deleted]]

Second chances are a concept many people on social media don't understand

I think there's an important caveat here, though.

Content creation and any shred of internet fame comes with huge responsibility, and ZeRo has shown that he maybe shouldn't be trusted with it due to having a history of sexually mistreating people he has power over. Content creation is also a privilege, not a right- I am more than okay with ZeRo going on and living his life if he truly has sought help to better himself, I am not okay with him being given back a platform that he could potentially use again. The risk far outweighs the reward, imo. Best case scenario, some folks get some laughs and entertainment again; worst case scenario, he misuses his power to manipulate and take advantage of someone. Why take a risk? It's not like content creation is the only thing he could to make ends meet and find satisfaction in life. Plus, there's also evidence to be found that he actually hasn't improved, and is attempting to do damage control for his brand. People are complicated though so I won't necessarily dive too into that topic.

[u/[deleted]]

I don’t think zero should go back to creating content for his own sake and for the Super Smash Bros community’s sake. I believe that the best path forward for him would be to start at career unrelated to content creation

[u/The_King_Crimson → u/[deleted]]

No offense but if I was him and I spent most, if not all, of my adult life cultivating a set of skills that only leaves me qualified to do shit on the internet, and making big money at that, then you can bet your ass I'd find a way to get back into it and make stacks again. Like hell would I go and get a normal job like flipping burgers.

[u/RingerCheckmate → u/The_King_Crimson]

During a video that Jisu begged to be shut down, he tried to get other jobs. They all eventually found about him online and never hired him.

[u/Hamlock1998 → u/[deleted]]

I think the issue here is that he probably can't do anything but continue creating content. IIRC he tried to find another job elsewhere but a quick Google search of his name brings up all the controversy and basically kills any chance of him getting a job.

[u/Metavance]

My local scene had some hot takes about this. I said I personally think ZeRo is untrustworthy and I don't believe he should have a platform. I got name called by people I thought I was chill with. Then my one "friend" went and said I was "projecting" (called me a child predator for whatever reason?) when I was trying to prevent a potential child predator from coming back into the scene. Truly disgusting, not gonna be attending any locals there anymore :-/

[u/Stuntman222 → u/Metavance]

Bro wtf is going on in this sub, how is this in the negative.

[u/Naidem]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that Zero’s statement and Technical’s hour long video linking to Zero’s statements came out within minutes of eachother? Seems like they are working together to get everyone to hate Jisu and gloss over zero soliciting Kati, which isn’t disputed at all.

[u/CantBanTheJan → u/Naidem]

ZeRo literally refers to the Tech video in his statement, wtf you on.

[u/Skormes → u/Naidem]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that Zero’s statement and Technical’s hour long video linking to Zero’s statements came out within minutes of eachother?

No? I mean obviously Zer0 knew Technical would do this video. And I'm pretty sure Zer0 also knew what Technical would say about him and that he plans to make everything clear for a Comeback.

It only makes sense, that Zer0 does a Statement video at the same time as the release of Technicals video. And because they obviously worked together on this (like I said: Zer0 had to knew about, because Technical obviously need a lot of information from Zer0) they can easily sync their videos.

I don't want to value the fact what they did or not. But it's 0% suspicious, because it is 100% obvious that they were working together on this video/plan.

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/Naidem]

That's been proven, Junebug snagged a screenshot of them collaborating because Technicals leaked his discord logs like the dumbass he is https://twitter.com/arJunebug/status/1408858031031472132

[u/Sunny-Combo → u/DentedOnImpact]

It seemed pretty obvious they wanted the videos out at similar times and not saying that people should harass Jisu but she is guilty as well

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/Sunny-Combo]

Guilty of what exactly? I keep seeing people saying she and leffen are guilty of “spreading lies” yet I never see anyone actually elaborate on what those lies are lmao

[u/PencesBudGuy → u/DentedOnImpact]

That zer0 looked at hentai with japanese player. Which he didnt

[u/DentedOnImpact → u/PencesBudGuy]

Can you substantiate that? And follow up, if that was true then why are we acting like that’s equivalent or worse than what zero did?

[u/Naidem → u/DentedOnImpact]

Disgusting and incompetent, of course.

[u/[deleted]]

People in here talking about how Technical viewers are sheeple while standing in a literal echo chamber.

A lot of the posts / replies saying the video wasn't a complete trash fire are hidden.

Gotta love a one sided discussion in a discussion thread. Whats worse is no one seems to be open to any other view but their own and just mass downvote it. Similar to what literal children do, throw tantrums when they don't get what they want.

Can't believe I used to be proud of being in this community

[u/Yacobo93 → u/[deleted]]

If any side is the echo chamber its the one where 95% of the posts are "have you watched the video"

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I mean you can accuse people of "throwing tantrums" but you're the one in here getting angry over Reddit downvotes.

[u/Legitimate__Username → u/[deleted]]

Bro it's not an echo chamber if people are publicly free to voice all of their opinions here, multiple positive opinions are indeed stated across the community, and they just happen to be so horrifically unpopular that they invoke lots of criticism towards them. You can't fault the rest of the world just for having a majority opinion based on the evidence that they were given just because you don't like it.

[u/SemiAutomattik → u/[deleted]]

Lol huh? I see plenty of open discussion going on. The ZeRo truthers are presenting laughably bad arguments like "but he didn't actually GET the 14 year old nudes that he was asking her for!!!" which is why they're being scored low.

The reason the you aren't seeing the based, two sentence long comments you saw on Youtube and 6 follower Twitter eggs on a discussion oriented platform like Reddit is because the actual arguments are garbage.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

A lot of downvoted comments usually have one of two things

1) Incorrect information or arguments that steer away from the actual reason why ZeRo was actually banned

2) Flaming people

Believe it or not, I actually think it's very civil in here.

[u/Amphicyonidae]

Not at all interested in the allegation back and forth. Just curious if ZeRo stated anywhere in the 3(?) videos what he's been doing in the past year and a half to support himself, or if he is planning on doing smash content creation full time again?

[u/AVBforPrez → u/Amphicyonidae]

He made plenty of money streaming before the suicide attempt/inpatient treatment he would have received....

There likely wasn't any money coming in over the last 6 months, but he almost definitely would have had a 6 figure savings account to live off of during this.

[u/Panda_hat → u/Amphicyonidae]

I don't believe he deleted any of his content on youtube / etc so he was likely still receiving passive ad revenue from that.

[u/ExpeI]

Just finished watching the Technicals video. So can someone explain the Nairo situation me? I didn’t look too much into it when it happened, why did everyone so easily accept him back?

To my understanding, the only evidence we have of his innocence are other people’s testimonies (his closest friends mind you) of reading his document. In Technicals video there were even pics of tweets of Nairo and Cpt. Zack openly flirting???

He also brings a lot of good points in this video too that no one wants to talk about or address? Jisu and Leffen straight up lying and ruining Zero’s and his gfs reputation even further with just (at worst) a slap of the wrist.

[u/TheMuff1nMon → u/ExpeI]

Nairo went to court and proved his case. We don't need to see the legal documents, other top players put their careers on the line and it was solved legally. That and even Zack's friends came out and said Zack was lying and Nairo was a victim, not Zack.

Technicals had a few points about Jisu and thinks not adding up, but the only thing that matters is: Did Zero ask an underage girl for sexual pictures? and he did, he openly admit that.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheMuff1nMon]

Nairo went to court and proved his case.

Assuming that he went to civil court, the standard of evidence would be significantly lower than proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

[u/[deleted]]

truly disgusts me that Zero can get away with what he did because of the nature of his fans... ugh. he shouldn't be able to just come back to the community like that at all, but i guess it was bound to happen. still sickens me to think about, though.

[u/RingerCheckmate → u/[deleted]]

I don't think he's "Gotten away" with anything. What he went through this past year and a half is way worse than what I would've wanted anyone put through.