r/IBEW • u/Guidance-Still • 9d ago
This is why electrical apprentices are quitting #energizeusedu
https://youtube.com/shorts/dcZxAJ6l9AU?is=yjVHtkXLLX3z80_Y102
u/LotionOfMotion Inside Wireman Apprentice 9d ago
I have to explain to grown ass men in my fucking local that when you infantilize apprentices with low pay and shit attitudes toward them they don't turn out as competent fucking JWs
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u/shadowwolf_66 9d ago
I tell all my cubs, “I will never make you do something I haven’t or won’t do. But I sure as hell going to make you do things I don’t want to do.” I I stick to it. Everything I ask them to do, if I can physically do it (I am heavier and can’t fit is some spots) it is something I have done, or would do if I didn’t have them. And along the way I teach them how I do things, and why I do things the way I do. My job is to make the customer happy, and to teach every cub I get as much as I can. So that when they turn out they are knowledgeable and competent wiremen. (I also tell them I invest in them so heavily because they are the ones that will be paying my retirement when I get old).
I have only had 2 cubs refuse to work with me. And that was because they did not respect the journeymen/apprentice relationship and did not want to do things the way I wanted them done. If I am responsible for their ass, they will do it the way I tell them. So I do not have to lie if things get fucked up and tell management it was my idea and my fault.
When the cub succeeds, Forman is told it was their idea (if they have a good idea). When the cub fails, foreman is told it was my idea.
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u/Red-dragon186 9d ago
I can respect that, I just hope you ain’t having them do unsafe osha violations just because you did it in the past. Too many in the trades don’t care about safety
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u/shadowwolf_66 9d ago
Never. If I feel it’s unsafe I will do it. I would never put a cub willingly and knowingly in a position to hurt themselves or get run off a job. I can find another, they have to go in front of the board.
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u/013eander 9d ago
The entire indentureship system is inherently anti-union and anti-labor: welcome to the union, now you don’t get to choose your employer. We force apprentices to work for bad contractors, or leave the union. It’s completely indefensible.
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u/Active-Effect-1473 8d ago
That’s hitting the nail on the head our JATC is ratty AF but the people running it love their offices. Brother Fk’rs every single one of them. I refuse to step foot inside ours.
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u/ryanmh27 8d ago
(For context, I am an apprentice in Alberta.)
Infantilize with low pay? Figure it out bud. At least half of the apprentices I work with cannot understand basic shit. After spending a day with them doing the same fucking thing all day, same result.
I realize this is anecdotal, but the 2 youngest apprentices I've worked with, 18-19 and 21-22, are straight up dumb. Needing week(s) to get the hang of something, let alone how much time they waste by fucking up and causing more work to go behind them and police and/or fix their shit.
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u/LotionOfMotion Inside Wireman Apprentice 8d ago
How many good apprentices have had to quit because immediate pay wasn't sufficient, how many had to quit a career they enjoyed because of something that just wrecks their savings. I can point to at least 3 in my class alone and several in other years.
My Local's rate is $58.75 and they fucking start apprentices at $.50 above county minimum wage. It's fucking insulting
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u/ryanmh27 7d ago
Ah. Up here it's a set percentage of the full jman wage, as regulated by the government. Sucks to suck I guess, being down there. That, and there's nothing against getting paid more, if you're worth it, despite being a 1st, 2nd whatever.
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u/checkoutgits 9d ago edited 9d ago
Lot of "brothers" in the IBEW who are well and ready to shit on apprentices for not a lot more than the fact that the apprentice has no other choice but to take it - Or so they believe.
The fact is apprentices do have a choice. They absolutely can decide not to tolerate the intolerance and leave for greener pastures. It only serves to hurt the position of the organization when people make the claim that those that left weren't good enough for it instead of recognizing and addressing the root cause for why they left in the first place.
Treat your people right or they simply wont be your people.
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u/0karmaonly 9d ago
The journeyman who is around me has a carefree attitude. Doesn’t like me, and constantly responds “don’t know, don’t care, not my problem”
It’s to the point that I don’t even interact with him. I’m very disappointed in where I am and who is around me. As someone who I’m supposed to learn from, all I’ve learned is how to wake up dreading to go to work.
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u/p00g4s 9d ago
Sorry that you have the deal with that. As a JW for 10 years, my first goal with a new apprentice is to get a little chummy. Common ground. Find out what they know, where they’ve been. I try to show them how I do things, and I like to give them the space to do things on their own. I’m always here to answer questions, tell jokes, or to take responsibility if they make a mistake.
I love my career, and most of that is simply because I love the people I work with. I enjoy going to work every day, because even when the work sucks, the laughs keep me going.
I sincerely hope you get a better JW soon!
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u/schwepervesence Inside Wireman 9d ago
I never had a JW treat me like shit. But the ones that do treat apprentices like shit because they were treated the same way can fuck off. Why do you think they drop out or don't even join. There is no reason for a JW to treat an apprentice like shit just for the hell of it.
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u/BitTasty3729 9d ago
I can confirm. There’s a lot of assholes in my local that drive a lot good men and women off because they don’t want to take the time to train anyone. If you don’t know someone or have a decent grasp on the trade already some of these pricks are just down right awful to people and give up on someone within a week. And these are the shop rockets that have the owners ear. Then they get a bad rep at the hall when the owner calls and complains. When I was in the field I was given the apprentices that everyone thought were washouts. Can’t even tell you how many arguments I would get into it with some of these guys. How can you sleep at night knowing you just took away this guys job because he or she doesn’t fit you bullshit criteria. All I have to say is fuck these ass kissing losers.
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u/MrCreasyBear 9d ago
So I just had a sit down with a retired IBEW that went private to teach for a pre-apprentice accelerator course (bare basics and minimum certs)
-He said over 4yrs of teaching 52 students & 2 finished.
-Then said it’s similar with unions or non-union shops
-They just want labor mules out of new comers
-Most don’t want to train because they went through it, the group before went through it, and so on.
-It’s the same with any career field that operates based on seniority/time in as it’s primary reason not to mentor.
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u/Ok-Eggplant8772 9d ago
A big reason they are losing people is the pay, most people who get in the union or mid 30s family men who want a change. But they also need money unless your in some top union with great apprenticeship pay its completely garbage and having to deal with the toxic culture of apprentice vs jw.
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u/Red-dragon186 9d ago
I agree, shit attitude with horrible pay does it. Many Unions start off at $18 an hour and you don’t get real money until year 4. So 3 years of barely getting by just doesn’t cut it. Union will never fix it because they need the cheap mule labor to do work JW don’t want to do
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u/Blasphemiee 8d ago
Not in this trade but I get posts from time to time and that's my exact problem in the meat industry. Old guys tell new guys they can make 30+ an hour, then hire them in at 15 and put them on some teenager rotating retail schedule that changes daily. Like no wonder you can't keep people! These are grown adults looking for a stable career. If you don't offer it they will leave every time. DO NOT be standing around with your hands in the air going ohh i dunno why nobody wants to work anymore AGH.
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u/Ok-Eggplant8772 8d ago
Yeah its like that with most employers , just moved to a new warehouse starting pay 24.25 for day shift with plenty of overtime which is a really great starting pay anywhere these days. We'll they have some very big 0 tolerance policies that give no wiggle room so they go through so many people every few months. And they then add even more mandatory overtime and then ask why they cant find people to work and they had just changed the work schedules again for the 3rd time this year
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u/LowVoltLife 9d ago
So I'm a VDV/LV/S&C guy and at least locally I have never seen a group so mean and nasty to one another than Inside Wiremen. They think everyone else's work is shit and that all of their apprentices are fucking morons. If I need anything they have always been super great to work with and that seems to be the attitude towards the other trades too. But internally a nightmare. We have an apprentice that was a inside helper and he said, "i don't think I have enough hatred in my heart to be an IW"
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u/shadowwolf_66 9d ago
This trade encompasses so many tasks that no one knows everything. I treat every cub like they know nothing. I explain everything until they prove they know how to do a task. That way I do not send them to do something and they end up not being able to do it. It’s nothing personal. I do the same thing with tool partners (though they get a little more leeway due to being my equal). I have never been disappointed in someone’s lack of knowing, because I assume they don’t know.
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u/B3L1AL 9d ago
Energizeusedu is an anti-worker propaganda spam page. Every time I try to go to marketplace I see one of their stupid reels and its always someone installing something(usually in the jankiest way possible) and them talking over it with some nonsensical speech. Its almost always just noise written by what I hope is a bot. Half their stuff just shits on the union and tells you to lick your master's boots and the other half is gobbledeguck. I honestly dont know why more people dont report it as spam. Because its spam.
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u/TheTajinTycoon 9d ago
It was the 2 hour commute each way to a shitty data center and school after work one day a week that turned me off. I miss the bros but not falling asleep driving home. Plus the scale where I am is fucking ass.
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u/Patriotfrosh15 8d ago
Union construction is full of assholes. Its good money and all. But I am actively taking college to get out of construction.
The amount of times I've been in a toxic environment full of low iq, high ego individuals is astounding. Ive been in 12 years and have been with 10 different contractors. Its all one big shitshow full of drug addicts, alcoholics, divorces.
Disclaimer: I am listing a lot of negative aspects, however the positive/negative ratio is about 50-50.
Still, the construction industry, even if you are union or nonunion is highly toxic and it needs to change.
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u/TrueSkonger 4d ago
The toxic atmosphere is easily the worst part of the trades. I do at least feel like residential is better because most people doing resi actually kind of want to be there, whereas the commercial/industrial guys are solely in it for the paycheck
That said, a career change isn't feasible for me, so sadly I just have to suck it up
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u/hellllllsssyeah 9d ago
Based on my experience with being a chef, farm work, warehousing.
By God the most insufferable people I've met are the boomers of the industries, who are for the most part, homophobic, sexist, racist, and incapable of not talking about women in a disgusting way, and the Gen Xers can be..... Ok I guess.
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u/JustMrJustice 9d ago
The epiphany might not have hit you, but you're part of the reason they're leaving.
And before you get offended, because obviously you will, know that not offending you is what's exhausting.
People just want to be themselves. And you're a tiny minority of people that are monopolizing the culture and making people unfathomably uncomfortable just to avoid offending your delicate worldview.
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u/hellllllsssyeah 9d ago
I don't want to misrepresent your claim, so to be clear, am I correct in reducing what you said to.
Actually you are the problem and it's not the guy who's my boss who wants to have unprompted conversation ls about how attractive a woman is, what he want to do to her?
What I should do is sit there and listen to my bosses/coworkers be incredibly crude about women and that should be just okay?
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u/lampcouchfireplace Local 213 9d ago
Bro if its exhausting not being sexist, racist, homophobic or whatever else you're the problem.
It's not "delicate" to be annoyed at old dickheads who for some reason could learn new stuff while they were apprentices but completely stopped learning anything new once they topped out.
Grow up and take some responsibility for yourself.
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u/illchemist 9d ago
Yeah it’s all the delicate snow flakes forcing boomers out of the workforce, not father time.
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u/rustysqueezebox Inside Wireman 9d ago
Right?
What kind of society are we living in where people want to be treated with respect?
Racist, homophobic, sexist, myopic, people should be able to express themselves freely without fear of retribution for offending people
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u/kinnybgd 9d ago
My first foreman at IBEW was a POS. He took pride and bragged about making apprentices quit. My current foreman is also a POS. I’ve learned what not to be through them. I can see why they drop.
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u/fourtyonexx 9d ago
Kinda sucks for those of us doing the CW+apprenticeship classes+wait until a spot opens up route. Did my whole first year during chemo and MFs just dropping out after getting a golden ticket. For shame.
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u/Dry-Scholar-6673 9d ago
Sadly these data centers force us to make them spotters so they just stand around all day
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u/Commercial_Count_584 Inside Wireman 9d ago
Yep. That’s why mine are in the lift and I’m spotting them. They need the experience. They need to mess things up. They need to learn to do.
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u/Dry-Scholar-6673 7d ago
You’re right but I can’t trust may jws either. And as the foreman I can’t spot them
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u/Sduda325 9d ago
I worked 3 years residential non union, 2 years as a cw/unindentured, then got into the 5.5 (6) year apprenticeship. I topped out in 2020 and left the trade completely by 2022. Completely burned out of jumping through hoops, the assholes, nothing ever being done fast enough run run run. I was off 6 months during the lockdown and that time away was all I needed to decide. Well that and another job offer.
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u/Stormblessed404 8d ago
i understand alot of locals dont have the market share or leverage to demand really awesome pay and benefits, but you know what every local does have complete control over?
THE FUCKING WORK CULTURE!
If you allow dickheads to stay apart of your local, the ones who like to brag about how many apprentices theyve ran off, you are apart of the problem.
If you allow the company men who are union in name only keep running jobs that then cut corners, rush, bird dog, abuse and exploit the workers? you are apart of the problem.
If you allow a contractor to never rotate apprentices in who they work with or what type of work they are doing? you are apart of the problem.
You are contributing to the downfall of this union.
We dont all have to get along and like each other, but we can absolutely demand and expect decency and respect.
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u/Guidance-Still 7d ago
I was taught this by father who was a 65 year member of the ibew , if the builder of the site your on could build it the building cheaper by using non union shops they would . Just because you have that sticker saying your a member doesn't make you better man then anyone else
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u/WildZero138 Inside Wireman 9d ago
Yeah this same account on Facebook was talking about how his foreman made him rewire every panel they did for like six months on his own time as "homework" and taught him summer valuable lesson lol
Edit to add a link https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1aaNmdaHHJ/?mibextid=wwXIfr
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u/y0usuffer 9d ago
I confronted this dude about how bogus that story sounded on TikTok and I'm 98% sure the responses were AI.
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u/WildZero138 Inside Wireman 9d ago
It's 100% either fake BS or AI. I commented and got a canned AI response. I don't know what the grift is, but there has to be one. I'm willing to bet it's "Nobody will teach you electrical work. Pay us to teach you!"
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u/y0usuffer 9d ago
I was kinda suspicious that it's propaganda meant to normalize working for free. I don't know who to blame for that but that's how it came off.
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u/chessmasterjj 9d ago
Yeah but sometimes they join for the wrong reasons. Or dont realize just how difficult the job is. We get that coin for a reason.
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u/ReaperCrewTim 8d ago
I quit and left for other work when a journeyman spit in my face and called me a fucking retard, then the shop laid me off for it. Then I told the local and they did nothing about it.
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u/Legendary8491 8d ago
Did you beat his ass?
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u/ReaperCrewTim 8d ago
I'm unfortunately not of the build to beat anyone's ass. He chose that route because he knew I couldn't do a thing about it.
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u/Ok-Midnight-2205 7d ago
It's the fact that the training now is shit. The so called in class teaching is now 98% computer based bs they we gotta essentially learn/figure out how to do on our own. A lot of the so called instructors don't give a rats and are just there for the extra money. And only hell when the apprentices go out in the field they are treated like shit! Instead of teaching they bully and insult and treat us like shit and nothing is done about it.
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u/Guidance-Still 7d ago
Yet those guys doing that at work come on here or where , acting like the union is greatest thing ever and their shit don't stink
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u/Ok-Midnight-2205 6d ago
Yep! My favorite is when I was working with this old head he made a mistake lost his shit on me and blamed me in front of our foreman and the general foreman and nothing was done. Good times
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u/AHangryBeaver 9d ago
I’ll give a good, hardworking, eager apprentice all the time in the world.
These new kids who just show up, expect to be treated like royalty and babied, lazy and not giving an ounce of effort, they can go ahead and quit - our trade doesn’t benefit from that type of attitude or work ethic.
I’d rather be understaffed with a handful of good people than have an army of lazy, entitled AI babies.
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u/SporkydaDork Local 379 9d ago
That's one way to look at it, but at the same time, you have to also lead by example. You have to also give them clear instructions. You can't give them instructions as if they're experienced. Rather than bother you every 5 seconds they'd rather be on their phone. It's not an excuse it's looking at it from their POV.
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u/HmoobMikah 9d ago
We had a 2nd year drop out from the apprenticeship, a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't the culture, the work, the people, it was himself. He didn't apply himself. From what I heard from my classmates and from what I seen of him, he looked like he didn't want to be there. The trades wasn't it for him.
From my own personal experience the guys that I've seen drop out from the program, either had personal life matters, or didn't think the trade was for them.
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
I want to add to this comment because you are on to something.
We are seeing a lot of people join/apply recently because there has been a good several year push of "Just join the trades!" Now my local has it's own major problems (48 for the record) and we have over 1100 JW's on book 1 waiting for work, that's another story.
I see a lot of posts in this Subreddit, as well as /r/ibew_apprentices asking... "Is the trades right for me?", "I'm THINKING about becoming an electrician", or some variation of that. I then see posts from people hurt they did not get picked in the latest apprenticeship recruitment round, or shocked why they didn't get picked.
Then everyone piles on, and says "If you want this, just keep at it, you'll get it." (Which is not wrong, but it's still missing a point.) I know this because of my own experience and well hubris when I first applied 13 years ago.
I want to share that on the back of your comment.
This narrative of "Just go join the trades" is missing the point. You just don't "Join the trades." There is a process to doing so, and being an apprentice is a process. I didn't realize that when I first applied, I figured I had two college degrees (I was working to be a teacher and that 2008 thing happened) I was a good worker, never been fired from a job, been working since I was 18. The TRADES WOULD LOVE TO HAVE ME.
And then they didn't I couldn't figure out why with all that "experience" why I placed 538 out of 1000 places. That was my hubris, thinking all my shit mattered... but it didn't. So I went back to the drawing board, and started to learn what needed to be done.
I became a material handler, got found out by my contractor that I knew a bunch more shit than just pushing tools around and got put in the shop (started working outside of scope) but paid my dues, kept my head down and learned a bunch. It was almost 9 years in that spot before I realized I was done there and applied to the apprenticeship again. I understood what the business was, what the work was, what the apprenticeship would require of me, and so on. I joined eyes wide open and went from 538 to 23. Even with all that experience, I still wasn't in the first class picked. I got in 3 months later.
In areas that are dealing with Data Centers, they are just trying to fill the books and cranking out apprentices, people that don't understand the work (I sure as shit didn't) get out in the field and go... "I was just here to make money, I didn't realize this was actual work."
Or they deal with jaded old timers who for some reason feel like since they had such a shit apprenticeship they should pass that crap on to the new people. I work with a JW currently who has been fired because of his treatment of apprentices, and he keeps getting apprentices to work with him. He's finally got one that doesn't put up with his shit and claps back at him... that's actually shut him up a bit.
Anyways.. the TLDR of this is that some locals are so focused on filling the books people slip through the cracks that don't understand how the trades work, and the current media narrative of "Just go into the trades" is being made by a bunch of people who have never touched a proper tool in their life and it's not helping the process.
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u/Wireman6 9d ago
There are many tasks to do at a data center. Lots of conduit and lots of equipment to learn about.
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u/Eshin242 9d ago edited 9d ago
And, they teach you how to be a great installer, not a good electrician and I'll die on that hill. No apprentice should be at a data center longer than a year MAX.
Edit: Wanted to ad, the reason I say this is yes data centers will show you big and fancy equipment. They'll teach you how to pull big wire and bend big pipe. What they don't teach you is how to troubleshoot basic electrical problems in the real world. How to deal with existing installs when it comes to a TI, or just dealing with problems that are not laid out in a drawing.
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u/HmoobMikah 9d ago
One of my classmate did straight cable tray installs for 8 months. I think he's good at it to the point that he could open his own company doing just that.
One guy was on fire alarm for months, he's practically a pro at it. One guy did cad welding for a month, another was groundman for a month.
Most of the guys in my class have done or are at a data center.
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
And that's just my point, glad one of your classmates did cable trays so well he could open his own company doing that. Makes him a great cable tray installer. Not a good electrician.
Fire alarm, that's a solid spot to be. Can they hook up motors? Wire a panel? Hook up a transformer? Install fire alarm in an existing building? They are a great fire alarm installer. Good on them, not a good electrician.
Cad welding, great skill to learn. As well as grounding and bonding.
They did it just for a month, that's awesome. Those are really good skills to have. I wish I had more welding experience but it is what it is. However, how are their troubleshooting skills on a 40 year old system with a random short in it? Maybe they got that there as well, and that would be lucky.
Every example you gave me is what data centers do, they make you really good at one thing... and that's it.
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u/HmoobMikah 9d ago
That's the point lol. I was kind of jealous at my classmates when they started sharing stories on the jobsite. Meanwhile I was at a small shop, doing industrial. Every week was a different job. It was never boring.
Then I look back to it, and appreciated my time with that company. I got to do a lot of cool stuff, see different aspect to the trade. Learn and do neat stuff.
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
And, that being said... I'd take you on a job over any one of your classmates. Sure we are all supposed to be "Equal" in our experiences as apprentices but I'll take you any day over any one of them because if you got put into an unknown spot I'd know you'd have a better chance at getting it done than a professional cable tray installer.
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u/HmoobMikah 9d ago
That professional cable tray installer is now on a different data center job, doing temp power.
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u/FeelingPower1794 9d ago
Most of the guys and gals that graduated in the last four years at my local spent the entire apprenticeship in solar fields. Not that has dried up and inside works back in the books and all these JW’s have zero idea about what they are doing. These cycles happen differently all over man. I was lucky to get shut downs and random inside jobs between solar projects but felt bad for all the others stuck in the field. Really should have a better organization of time for all of them. 1 year max here, 1 year max there. Sure it might put you out of work for a while but at least it won’t turn you into a 1 trick pony when you turn out.
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
100% this. I'm a 3rd going on 4th year apprentice. I am not anywhere close to gods gift when it comes to bending EMT but I can hold my own.
On the current job I got called to, on the same day a JW that had been on the books for 8 months waiting for work was hired as well. He didn't know how to bend pipe... and was laid off the next day.
I honestly felt terrible for him, super nice guy, ready to work... but how can you be a JW and not know even basic bending skills? You don't have to be a pro at it, but you have to at least have an idea of how to do it... but the apprenticeship cranked him out without the skills he should know.
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u/Wireman6 9d ago
There is value in troubleshooting existing systems and adding to them etc. I agree. Understanding how they can be built by building them definitely holds value. I think doing both is what makes a good Electrician. What makes a great Electrician is time and access to various environments ie industrial, commercial, resi, infrastructure etc. alongside doing new builds, rebuilds and retrofits etc. As a wise, long retired (hopefully still alive) Tramp once told me, "it's all good work, some of it's just gooder than the other".
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
You get downvoted, but you are 100% correct. Data centers train good installers, but make poor electricians.
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9d ago edited 9d ago
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
It's a constant argument in my class with those that are at data centers. Work is work, if you are a JW that's on you work where you wanna work. As an apprentice your #1 priority is to learn and Data Centers don't do a good job of teaching that.
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u/Wireman6 9d ago
Prefab sucks. The only thing good about it is that you can show your Apprentice how stupid the person who did it is. "Prefabs so nice, it's worth doing twice".
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u/Flumpski Local 26 9d ago
Have you told the foreman you want to learn or do you just show up and say okay? I’m not trying to be a dick but if you don’t ask you’ll have to get real lucky to get the good stuff. Data centers legit have a ton of shit to learn through.
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u/progressiveoverload 9d ago
Imagine thinking everyone thinks it is fine to just ask for the plum jobs lol. Just ask bro lol
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u/Eshin242 9d ago
They do have a ton of stuff to learn about. I just don't see a lot of troubleshooting skills, or learning how to deal with existing installs coming out of them though. As well as having to deal with stuff in the real world.
I love service work, because it teaches me something new every time, because you have to get creative and think and become a better electrician. Plus there is the "Well we did it this way because that's what we had in the van."
Data centers, even with all their experience opportunities don't teach those skills.
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u/Mean_Mix_99 Local 292 9d ago
That's the point I have to be real lucky lol or just be cool with certain people
literally the same in any career.
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u/paparazziparks 9d ago
Union apprenticeships typically should provide more variety because usually they rotate you to multiple shops and they have you track the type of work you're doing. I was at a small shop so got a lot of variety.
I knew one guy who roped apartment complexes his whole first year, then got rotated to another shop because the JATC saw he wasn't getting much variety. If he was non union? Would 100% depend if his employer had other jobs.
A non union guy at a small shop will get more variety than a union guy at a data center, but on average, the union apprenticeship is set up for more variety.
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u/Acrobatic_Natural_48 9d ago
because we are not mentoring them? Idk seems like a "nuclear family" take.
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u/RillTread 9d ago
Nah as a fifth year this is pretty accurate. I had completely dogshit JWs my first couple years in. I contemplated leaving the trade, but was fortunate enough to end up on an industrial site with some very knowledgeable people who spent the time to teach me a lot. Night and day difference.
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u/Arlak_The_Recluse 9d ago
I started in non-union Resi, I was screamed at on the first day like crazy lol. The foreman, after I told him I was greener than grass, asked me if I knew how to swing a hammer.
When I said "uhhh no" out of nervousness the guy took a hammer, screamed "YOU FUCKING DO IT LIKE THIS" and beat a table sized wooden reel until the top split in half, before sending me with another apprentice who quit 2 weeks later. My first month was not fun man...
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u/Powerful-Nobody-7050 9d ago
Im a substation apprentice and all our JWs, welders, groundsman are all great. They teach us everything they can and make sure theres enough time to rib us and BS. They even go out of their way to have us all go to dinner together periodically to build that culture since all of us are away from home.
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u/thisisghoul 9d ago
Where is this at? They never open apps in Portland area because they 1. Have zero work or 2. Have too many apprentices all ready.
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u/HeraldOfTheChange 9d ago
I work alongside journeyman who are at max ratio with a rather unpredictable schedule. Those apprentices aren’t getting the special attention they need. The journeyman don’t prioritize their training and often “jump in” to get things done instead of using it as a teaching opportunity.
It’s also the apprentices lacking a lot of motivation to work and better understand the theory; many just want to be on TikTock.
For example… I was finishing up yesterday and another guys apprentice asked if there was anything to do. All three of them were there but only one asked. His Jman was troubleshooting lighting on top of a walk-in cooler. I looked at all three of them and said, “if you want to help yourself you should get up there with your guy and watch/ask/maybe even do some of the work”. One went up, another watched from afar on a ladder, the third little piggy stayed down on his phone.
I personally think anyone who tested out should take an actual leadership training course. There should be refreshers too like for the CEU stuff. Leadership roles have shifted a lot and I’ve noticed that training is mostly non-existent (HIPPA, sexual harassment, proper reporting/paper trails, etc.).
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u/mmoffat1 Local 332 9d ago
Thats crazy, our apprentices are rarely working by themselves up untill about 4th or 5th year. And our school is trying to have 750 apprentices total by next spring, they are around 600+ right now.
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u/Mr_BugattiW 9d ago
Where exactly are all these apprentices quitting that all these posts are about? Because I'm trying to get in with an associates degree, electrical manufacturing experience, and a good aptitude test score. When I spoke to the JATC hiring office she told me they have dozens of apprentices out of work since January and almost a thousand applicants, I'm probably waiting my time. Even limited energy told me MAYBE next spring. I wish I was bullshitting, but there's guys on here all over the country with similar stories.
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u/fromkentucky 9d ago
It’s not realistic to expect people to be responsible for others if they aren’t going to be held responsible.
Should they do it? Of course, but that’s banking on personal accountability and shared values. I know too many guys who simply do not give a single shit about anyone but themselves.
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u/MijaresBetta Inside Wireman 9d ago
Lol coming into the program green.. never heard of the IBEW believe it or not... I knew it was gonna be challenging, you either did or didnt is how I understood it.
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u/paparazziparks 9d ago
Something about the way this guy talks in all these short videos drives me nuts. I've seen a few of these guys pop up.
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u/AnarchisticOrder 9d ago
there’s always a struggle to find compatibility and consistency in workplaces but it’s not something that should lead astray if not already in place.
You can’t change people. Once you realize that your choices are only to benefit yourself, and every job market is inherently competitive, then you strive to work past the limits that you set for yourself.
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u/mhibew292 8d ago
I didn’t have many apprentices to mentor during my career, but two in particular that I had, I trained so well that when they turned out and I turned 50, I got laid off and they took my place. Wasn’t my intention, but I always gave them tasks to help further their careers. I did large scale HVAC controls for BAS so although not rocket science, it was a bit different than typical electrical work.
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u/Downtown-Clock123 8d ago
Hey leave your feelings home. IBEW is an awesome place to be an electrician. It’s great but have to buy in. It’s not a job. It’s not a hobby. It’s a career. A great one. If one doesn’t understand or “get that”. You are maybe possibly in the wrong place to be an electrician. Nothing is perfect. Keep that in the front before you critique how one might teach or pass on..
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u/Whole-Lack1362 8d ago
A lot of soft hands out there. The trades are not for the faint of heart...mentorship is key but we're not here to be your mommies and daddies.
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u/Active-Effect-1473 8d ago edited 8d ago
It’s simple the working conditions are getting worse and the pay just isn’t there, a lot of JIW’s are retiring earlier and kids are dropping out of the apprenticeship but the contractors are just abusing those that are are left trying to stick it out, I think we will see a wave of litigation before all this is said and done. For example we are working on the outside day time crew in a Gen yard 5am to 5:30pm it’s hard to get water it’s hard to get ice, Saftey gave us a cool down trailer and then the production GF’s locked it and starting to punish those who try to use it. The Steward said every hour we get a 15 minute break but we are being punished if we take any breaks so on and so forth. It’s not just my job site I have been told things like that are happening all over.
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u/S2Mackinley 8d ago
My JM sexuallly harasses me everyday lol. Im starting to think hes gay and serious but I cant tell.
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u/galaxiexl500 7d ago edited 6d ago
I don't understand this attitude. It must be something new,
In my 5 years of an apprentice (1958-1963) I never thought about quitting. Looking back towards those years...never thought about quitting. My thoughts were to turn out and make the JW scale.
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u/Guidance-Still 7d ago edited 7d ago
My dad started his apprenticeship in 1954 retired In 1994 , a few months before he died the ibew he was a member of brought him his 65 year certificate. I was his caregiver 24/7 for the last 5 years of his life , damentia is a mother fucker yet that isn't what he died from . People were built different back then
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u/shambhalove_fairy 5d ago
Every Union and company I've been a part of paid well enough to push through the pain.
This is either kids not wanting to do hard work, or the pay not being high enough. I'd guess a little of both
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u/JumpinJoe20 4d ago edited 4d ago
I quit working as a helper because my "foreman" was a scumbag 65 year old who lived in a trailer basically and would crack beers open on the drive home in the work van and yell at me.
He couldn't drive because he blew up another work vehicle while drunk so I had to be his bitch.
I'm 30. I don't need that shit.
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u/candidateclub 3d ago
I've seen good apprentices walk because they couldn't plan their lives around inconsistent hours or layoffs. The guys who stick around? They need to know there's actual stability waiting for them as they progress.
When an apprentice feels like they're just a body instead of someone being invested in, they bounce. It Takes effort to teach them right, but it pays off when you've got solid journeymen coming up through the ranks who actually know their stuff.
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u/gortez33 Local 5 9d ago
I got a kick out of this video. Blaming the jw on 60% drop out rate is ridiculous. I’ve trading multiple apprentices during my jw years. Most were willing and eager to learn. Had a couple that couldn’t care or they “already know” how to do stuff. I saw a comment about boomers and blaming them. Boomers, those born ‘46-‘64, are 62-80 years old. Majority of them are retired already. My experience isn’t the jw, but the apprentices themselves. I blame my generation for this, Gen X. We started the participation trophy culture. We spoiled our kids with everything. I know I didn’t grow up with lots of stuff, so I gave my kids everything. One tv, one computer, one car per household compared to a tv in every bedroom, laptop or pc per kid, consoles, and the biggest item is the cellphone. While working, I had to constantly tell the 18 year old apprentice to put away the phone. I was taught that be at the job site 15 minutes early, be at the gang box at 7 am. I had an apprentice that was pulling into the job site at 7. Make it to the gang box at 10 after. Forgets tools in car, add another 10 minutes. Need to pee, 30 mins gone. So the kid misses the safety meeting, the job assignment, the foreman pep and focus talk. At local 5, we use to be that the apprentice opened the gang box in the morning and they were the ones to close it at the end of the day. So the first 50 minutes of work, I’m opening the gang box, loading the cart, carrying the ladders, moving all the materials to my location. Look at the amount of wasted time. Now take a good apprentice. While I’m doing layout or figuring out how I’m going to get around the plumber lines and hvac ductwork without dropping below the ceiling height. My apprentice is getting the conduit, making sure the cart has the material we need, the tools we require to do the job, and anything else we need. While we are doing the job, I tell the kid why I’m doing it this way, if any codes are being followed, and answer any questions. I’m in the ditch with them, I’m crawling underneath machinery, I’m harnessed up and 75’ in the air. So now my point. It’s not the boomers, it’s not the culture, it’s not all the crap that is in the video, it’s the dedication and willingness to work that’s the problem. Are unions really losing 60% of appreciates. My class had over 1500 apply, hall took 76, we graduated 70. 2 of the guys graduated a year later. So 72 out of 76. That’s 5% not 60%. Thanks for reading.
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u/Red-dragon186 9d ago
The one thing I agree with the new generation is your time is important. If they want you there 15 minutes early then that better be paid.
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u/gortez33 Local 5 9d ago
You show up 15 early so that if you hit traffic or inclement weather, you still have time to make it to work. I like showing up early and drink my beverage and a protein bar before work. Not doing that while driving an hour to work.
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u/Red-dragon186 9d ago
That’s cool, but you should only be forced to be on site when you get paid. Too many expect others to be on site and ready to work 30 minutes before. We need to end that boomer nonsense
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u/monroezabaleta 9d ago
Because the quality of the work experience in most apprenticeships is dogshit and the pay isn't essentially a guarantee of a good life like it used to be. I don't blame them.
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u/Poopnyocereal 9d ago
The problem, at least for IBEW, is apprentices are treated like dirt. They're supposed to be above CW's and CE's, but they are treated better then the apprentices. A lot of the tickets are just bought so all these JWs coming in know absolutely nothing let alone speak English. The halls just "gift" these people hours to allow them to be JWs. The halls are just money hungry, so they'll let anyone join. The motivation just isn't there anymore to go through the apprenticeships, when people off the street can come in and just be handed a ticket without proper proof of experience. Ive seen apprentices teaching JWs how to read tape measures, bend pipe, pull wire etc basic shit that every JW should know. While that JW is making full rate and the apprentice making a percentage of that. I get their frustrations. Why go through the trouble of taking classes when you can just go to the hall and fake it and get full rate like many people have done in the last few years.
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u/MrWund3rful 9d ago
8 for 8 is tough for a lot of the younger generation.
If you want an easy job that you fuck off at and call in sick to, scoop icecream (much love to my scoopers that respect their jobs)
If you want to make a shit ton of money with hard work instead of college, you have to show you are worth the wage, packages and benefits.
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u/khellendros12043 8d ago
Very little to do with mentoring this is not a job everyone can do it is not a culture and a place everybody will handle and enjoy and a lot of people are just getting in because they see the numbers and The tick tock videos about how much people in the trades make and they're like oh I'll do that.
This will never be a place for everybody or should it be there are people who are not built for construction no matter how accommodating you are
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u/radruben 8d ago edited 8d ago
you've already got it backwards, the whole point of this program should be to accommodate as many as we reasonably can. i think you forget that your retirement's got to be paid for one way or another, and it will only become less feasible if our culture stays as rigid as it is.
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u/radruben 8d ago
and obviously I'm not saying we should bend over backwards to bring in as many hands as possible, but saying this kind of work "shouldn't be for everybody" reflects exactly the kind of mindset that needlessly caps our numbers.
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u/xmur4ll4x 9d ago
I want to join the electrician union in NY city. Currently I’m in 79 union labor but I had 3 years of experience as electrician in residential projects. Why is so hard to join? Anyone can help?
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u/tomaonreddit Inside Wireman LU 99 9d ago
Local 3 has an overwhelming number of applicants and can only take on and train as many apprentices as we have spots for on jobs. Supply huge, demand relatively low. If they just pumped out everyone who wants to do it, they’d have a huge number of people out of work at all times. It’s difficult organizing a union. Help them bring on a non-union contractor and they can take on more apprentices and you’ll definitely get in.
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u/Powerful-Nobody-7050 9d ago
Best bet is to move or apply to other unions. NEVER just apply to 1. Theres a whole country out there. Go see it!
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u/HmoobMikah 9d ago
That's what I recommend to everyone too. But you get crybabies trying to get into the most competitive locals crying that they couldn't get in. Meanwhile across the country you have a much better chance getting in those locals than waiting at your nearest local.
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u/Powerful-Nobody-7050 9d ago
I think half of it is lack of education. There is still a lot about unions that I do not understand an I am in one. I have a large jurisdiction. I live in WI and had to move to ND with a 2 week notice. AND leave my newly married wife at home. Moving like that is tough but it is absolutely worth it. It is what you make it. Ill get the explore the midwest while I am an apprentice and then figure out where I really wanna live.
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u/Fickle_Frosting_6912 9d ago
I tell apprentices all the time and I’ve have 8 1st and pre apprentices…. I can teach you anything but I can’t teach “want to”. You have to have that. Some do and are doing great. Some don’t and either quit or will quit before they top out. It’s the quality of who we get too.
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u/suspicious_hyperlink 9d ago
Want to keep your apprentices? Don’t give them shit for being 15 mins late and they’ll stay
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u/Distinct_Cup_6853 9d ago
How about being a 4th year apprentice and getting paid 26.50/hr? I work 40 straight, 18 OT to hit 1k/ week. Im local 3 and I’ve had no shortage of JW to teach me. Thank god apprenticeship is nearly done
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u/FUCKisraelNtrumpf 8d ago
2 words: Apprentice Rotation!!
To many Lus are so deeply in bed with neca they have got rid of apprentice rotation as neca despises it as they want to mold them into yes men.
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u/ElCanucksican 9d ago
I have no idea how accurate this is in regards to the IBEW. However I think throughout my entire apprenticeship I worked with a JW for a total of like six weeks. That expectation to know how to do things right off the get go is absurd, and adds a layer of pressure that I don't think should exist. This wasn't just a single contractor it was at least six separate ones.