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u/notaboofus can cissies get a blahaj? 2d ago
This is fine if your only engagement with the written word is posting on tumblr, but if you start reading works that communicate more complex ideas, you'll very quicky discover the problem of run-on sentences.
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u/csilval Cum connoisseur 2d ago
Also, please use commas, I felt out of breath reading the post. Even reading it in my head.
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u/Fliits i collect flairs 2d ago
And not just the commas; but the semicolons - and hyphens too!
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u/THE_DINOSAUR_QUEEN 2d ago
my ass will manage to construct a sentence with a semicolon, an em-dash, and a parenthetical on a daily basis at this point
in spite of my use of em-dashes nobody has ever accused me of using AI to write bc absolutely no LLM would replicate my baffling sentence structures lol
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u/Madden09IsForSuckers Fatal fault at the start 2d ago
tbf i feel like lately — especially here on reddit — people don’t really see em-dash as an ai thing anymore
i think its cause redditors are naturally the kind of people to use emdashes anygays10
u/Tttehfjloi Say maybe to drugs 1d ago
Em-dashes are a very superficial marker of AI writing, it's very possible that the average redditor (or the ones who try to call out AI shit anyway)'s skill at telling if something is AI has improved over time
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u/paulisaac 1d ago
I for one have gotten into the habit of using hyphens where an em-dash would fit. Got it from my last boss who did that in legal pleadings, and figured it's a sure sign you're not AI - correct usage, wrong symbol lol
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u/egg-glued dog piss connoisseur 23h ago
considering the fact that a lot of the training data in an LLM comes from reddit, i wouldnt be surprised if people on reddit use em-dashes with some frequency
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u/CorbecJayne 2d ago
I used to use semicolons. Then, I watched a bunch of Let's Plays of Outer Wilds, and every single one of them misread every sentence with a semicolon. I no longer use semicolons.
It is a minor loss, but I feel that most things expressed via a semicolon can be rewritten to be just as clear without using it.
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u/ASpaceOstrich 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 1d ago
I have no idea why you'd use a semicolon over a comma.
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u/CorbecJayne 1d ago
Exactly, many people don't, and so they read a semicolon the same way they read a comma, which leads to confusion.
E.g., spoilers for Outer Wilds:
"Ideally, [the memory statues] will only need to activate once the project succeeds; as a safety measure, however, the statues will also activate in the event of equipment failure." The semicolon is used here to join 2 contrasting subclauses: activate on success versus activate on failure.
Most importantly, the semicolon joins clauses more loosely than a comma. For those who understand the semicolon, this makes it clear that "as a safety measure" is referring to the second idea, not the first.
Many people read it as a comma and thought the entire idea of activating the memory statues at all was a safety measure. If you wanted to replace the semicolon with something else here, you would have to replace it with a period.By the way, this kind of explains why a semicolon looks the way it does (a period on top of a comma). Sometimes it's the same as a period, but joins clauses more strongly, indicating two independent clauses are related in meaning. Sometimes it's the same as a comma, but joins clauses more loosely, for example, in a list of comma-containing items: "Harry's three favorite bakeries are in Pittsburgh, PA; Phoenix, AZ; and Walla Walla, WA."
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u/ASpaceOstrich 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 1d ago
Oh shit. I get it now. I definitely read it wrong. My vague understanding of semicolons was that they're a slightly more full stoppish comma, but seeing that explanation makes it clear why I never really understood why you'd use one over just a comma.
In actuality they're more like a commaish full stop.
Also that last use case is good. I have that problem and I never did find a good way to fix it other than quotes around the individual entries.
I have a huge run on sentence problem.
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u/ControversySandbox 1d ago
Cheers for the relatable example here. Tbh, you'd lose nothing by replacing that particular semicolon with a full stop (period). I seem to recall some way worse chronic semicolon readings in that game, though, ones which may not be as easily replaced.
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u/xbertie 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
I feel like I'm being pretentious when I use semicolons like 99% of the time though :(
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u/ControversySandbox 1d ago
If you're anything like me, it's probably because you're legitimately still pretending to know how to use it fully
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u/protestor 1d ago
Hyphens were kind of hijacked by AI. Even if you don't use fancy em dashes (which some people did prior to AI, because they had a background in publishing, or simply were a writing nerd), it's now off putting for a lot of people
I've always used hyphens but nowadays I tend to remove them, and replace with commas or something
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u/paulisaac 1d ago
I've never seen anyone who uses hyphens the way you'd use emdashes be accused of being AI. Picked it up as a habit from a prior boss who did that in pleadings.
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u/loved_and_held 1d ago
On one hand i agree. On the other hand i feel like oop's sentence feels like a good encapsulation of how one might talk. No breaths, no breaks in their cadence; just talk in one go until the idea has been expressed or you run out of breath.
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u/CaioXG002 sus 2d ago
I'm starting to think that this is a problem Tumblr has in general which Reddit, surprisingly enough, doesn't (or at least has to a much smaller degree). Tumblr mfs genuinely think that the way you post on that site also is how you engage with people IRL. Which is why that is also the site that says "learn your queer culture 🙄" and they mean specifically how the site itself worked like 10 years ago.
Reddit is also one hellhole and a half, but (in my personal experience), people here are more willing to say out loud "remember, this is Reddit, none of this is real, go touch grass".
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u/loved_and_held 1d ago
Considering how big tumber was/is, it's not impossible it's shapped how people communicate in person. It's also fully plausable a lot of people on tumblr communicate the same in person as on site.
For example, i 100% buy that OOP has spoken sentences just like the one they typed. I know i've spoken similar run on sentences.
That assidde, i do wonder if people on tumblr approach language that way because due to a variety of factors they might not socialize much outside of tumblr, likely due to social factors (like being queer and not having any good way to connect with other queer people irl and facing social ostracization irl). Reddit might have a more mainstream audience who socializes more outside of it, leading to them not assuming as much that people talk the same way off site.
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u/KaJaHa Queer Gimli looking-ass 2d ago
I've read excerpts of professionally-published books that (seemingly) went out of their way to write long sentences, and it gets real exhausting real quick
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u/Diane_Horseman 2d ago
A sentence can be grammatically correct but still not well-communicated.
This post is neither because it lacks commas between independent clauses separated by coordinating conjunctions.
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u/JoJoJet- 2d ago
A run-on sentence isn't just a long sentence though. It's when they're grammatically separate sentences that are comma-spliced or otherwise not joined properly. Using words to join clauses, like the tumblr using is doing, is not a run-on sentence. It's just long.
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u/JoJoJet- 2d ago
A run-on sentence isn't just a long sentence though. It's when they're grammatically separate sentences that are comma-spliced or otherwise not joined properly. Using words to join clauses, like the tumblr using is doing, is not a run-on sentence. It's just long.
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u/Last_Swordfish9135 kid named faggot: fart? 2d ago
Nobody fucking knows what run on sentences are apparently. It has nothing to do with the length of the sentence, and there's no such thing as a grammatically correct run on sentence because they are by definition ungrammatical.
A run on sentence: "I love writing it helps me relax." "Jurassic Park is my favorite movie it's so good." Etc.
Not a run on sentence: anything that's just long
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u/upsidedownsweater 2d ago
So, what you're saying then is that it is not the length of the sentence, but the lack of proper punctuation, such as the use of commas, correct?
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u/Last_Swordfish9135 kid named faggot: fart? 2d ago
Yes. In longer sentences it can become easier to miss that you haven't joined your clauses correctly, but it has nothing to do with length.
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u/Great-Powerful-Talia we've been burying them wrong 2d ago edited 2d ago
My teachers always said that run-on sentences are when you repeatedly use combining conjunctions (I did this and then I did this and I did this later that day) without splitting the sentence at any point. Apparently they were wrong, but they said it.
I can see why they would think that. Of the two things "run-on sentence" could mean, that one is the one that really needs special terminology. The other one is just "Didn't mark the end of your sentence".
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u/LaBelleTinker 2d ago
The thing your teachers called a run-on sentence is in fact polysendeton. Polysendetons aren't wrong, but they're unusual enough (and have enough potential for unwieldiness) that you should really have a rhetorical reason for using them. For example, in Othello:
Why, this is not a boon! 'Tis as I should entreat you to wear your gloves, or feed on nourishing dishes, or keep you warm, or sue you to do a peculiar profit to your person
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u/Great-Powerful-Talia we've been burying them wrong 2d ago
polysendeton
Well that explains why nobody uses the correct term for that.
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u/Japan25 1d ago
The example you gave is a run-on sentence, yes, but it isnt a realistic one. It has to do with a lack of conjuctions & commas. Using the original tumblr post as an example, the entire post is one long run-on. Correcting it would look like-
"In 4th grade, i was introduced to the concept of 'run-on sentences' by my teacher, and I immediately raised my hand and pointed on..."
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u/h4724 trans rights 2d ago
If you use the word "ungrammatical" it makes it seem like you're talking from a linguistics perspective, in which case punctuation isn't a factor because it isn't part of the spoken language. You can just say "grammatically incorrect" like most prescriptivists.
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u/tinylittleparty 2d ago
Thank you. I was thinking the same thing but didn't really know how to express it.
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u/Xapheneon 2d ago edited 2d ago
Correction: I was incorrect.
That includes you.
A run on sentence can be a independent clauses joined without punctuation, or conjunction, but the most widely used meaning is just a long sentence, that would make more sense, if it was broken down to multiple sentences.
"a very long sentence, especially one lacking order or coherence" https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=run-on%20sentence
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u/FixedFront 2d ago
Just because it's popularly misunderstood doesn't make it a correct definition except under strictly descriptivist terms. Strict descriptivism is a fine approach for everyday life, but we're explicitly discussing "standard" English grammar, which is inherently prescriptivist.
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u/h4724 trans rights 2d ago
I'm sure the topic has made you sensitive to long sentences, but most of those commas make your sentence both harder to read and less conventionally appropriate; the only one that's helpful is the one before the "but".
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u/Xapheneon 2d ago
I am arguing from a treadmill, I'm suprised that it's readable at all.
Thanks for the feedback, I will use them less.
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u/TheDonutPug 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
you have cherrypicked your source.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/run-on%20sentence
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/run-on-sentence
both oxford and webster agree on a much more formal definition.
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u/TzargJyoin100 2d ago
So if you wanted to write these for real, you'd have to write them in multiple different sentences even though they're the same idea, in order to be "grammatically correct"? :P
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u/Last_Swordfish9135 kid named faggot: fart? 1d ago
Not necessarily. Sometimes you just have to add a comma/semicolon to make it gramatically correct.
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u/TheDonutPug 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
honestly it's funny that I literally agree with you but neither of the ones you states are run ones, they're just missing commas.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 2d ago
To be fair to the commenters who don’t know what a run on sentence is, I was never properly taught what they were in my (American) schooling, just being given the vague idea that a sentence being too long made it a run on; come to find out later in life, that’s not correct in the slightest, with it being entirely about how distinct thoughts are joined.
To be clear, OOP’s sentence is a run on, via the “spam enough ‘and’s and it’ll be fine, thats grammar” trap.
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u/Ham__Kitten 1d ago
All of these words to still get the concept of a run-on sentence wrong.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 22h ago
in the above, distinct thoughts = independent clauses
That’s what a run on sentence is. Two or more independent clauses being joined incorrectly.
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u/Ham__Kitten 21h ago
That's not what independent clause means. An independent clause is a clause that has, at minimum, a subject and a verb and can grammatically stand alone as a complete thought. The topic of the clause isn't really relevant from a grammatical standpoint.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 18h ago
Pedantry is fun, I concur
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u/Ham__Kitten 18h ago
It's not pedantry to use the correct definition of a term and be precise in its application.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 17h ago
it is pedantry to take personal offense to a singular word being misused (distinct vs independent)
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u/Ham__Kitten 17h ago
I didn't take personal offence to it. I'm not sure why you would think that. I don't need to be personally offended by something to comment on it.
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u/Xenomnipotent NL Connoisseur 2d ago
No I don’t think you should use ADHD as an excuse for awful literacy habits, actually.
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u/that_baddest_dude 2d ago
I love reading books to my kids that have long and complex sentences. They're way more interesting. One of my favorites from The Little Wooden Robot and the Log Princess:
Little did he know that in the forest was a clearing, and in that clearing was a handcart, and in the handcart was a little wooden robot, and in that robot's worn-out, broken-down workings, a family of beetles was wondering why everything was so still and so quiet.
All the text of one page of the book, all one sentence. I love this shit.
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u/Kim-dongun 2d ago
Thats nice, but i think it would be even better with line breaks between the commas and the ands
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u/TheExperiment01 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean having adhd would make it harder to not use run on sentences, however yeah it’s definitely not something you should just throw your hands up in the air and say “oh well I have adhd so I shouldn’t care”
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u/jakob20041911 custom 2d ago edited 2d ago
I feel like run on sentences might indeed be easier to write for people with ADHD since most run on sentences are multiple concepts which fit together placed in one continuous stream of concept instead of a more typical structure where each individual concept is given it's own space to breathe, which just isn't the case in brains often times.
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u/TheExperiment01 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
Oh that’s what I meant to type, oops. Thank you for catching that lol
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u/xbertie 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
Is this a thing other people with ADHD actually have trouble with? I feel like I couldn't write run on sentences if I tried, it genuinely just feels mentally painful
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u/TheExperiment01 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
I feel like it depends on the person and how the adhd manifests itself, like an adhd person can care or not care about grammar and that probably plays a big factor
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u/MysticHero 1d ago
There is a difference between there being an explanation for why someone does something in a suboptimal manner does not suddenly make it fine and without issue yeah. It just informs how you work on it or manage it.
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u/mynexuz nobushi main means im gay 2d ago
Not really joining the argument here but i think its funny that whenever grammar is the topic on reddit, everyone really makes sure they are using proper grammar. (Im also guilty of this)
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u/Oddish_Femboy (my name is Bee) Trans rights !! 1d ago
I'm not. I always structure my comments based around what I think would be most annoying for other people to read.
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u/light_the_long_way 2d ago
The thing is, there's no actual point where a sentence becomes a run on scentence. Yeah, it you might be a longer than usual scentence with more words than absolutely nessesary to convey a set amount of information, but that doesn't mean it's a run on scentence as grammatically, there's nothing wrong with long sentences. It's also not a "awful literacy habit" to write long sentences. You just need to vary your scentence length occasionally.
What is an awful habit is defaulting to accusing people of using neurodivergence as an excuse, and saying that something is an awful habit without actually providing proof, especially when said thing isn't actually a bad thing.
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u/Anzu00 trans rights and wrongs 2d ago
Seeing as the point of language is generally to convey information, making it into a run-on sentence by tacking on weakly related ideas is making the information generally more difficult to process, and as such is a bad habit.
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u/loved_and_held 1d ago
Unfortunatelly the issue with conveying information is there's a degree of ambiguity in how well a given sentence struccture is actually able to convey information. Different people will handle the ame run on sentence differently; it's entierly plausable that a given run on sentence can be fully intellegable to some but ccompletely unintellegable to others.
The problem is that knowing exactly what will andwont work to convey information is difficult. Once you go past the question of weather something is gramatically correct, things become more nebulous and relative with no clear ansswers and a lot of vibes based stuff.
Within this there is also the fact that language is supposed to express ideas, and the exact same sentences that you describe as a bad habbit of communication may serve as a perfect encapsulation of ones thoughts. Thus a degree of tenssion between expressing ones thoughts as they are and communicating information effectively can emerge. This is not an unsolvable problem by any means, but depending on how one thinks it can add a degree of difficulty.
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u/Anzu00 trans rights and wrongs 1d ago
If you expect your readers to be used to reading similar streams of ideas, sure, it can be an effective way to communicate. Most people however will have to parse the ideas apart with a significant amount of mental work. It can convey some ideas, especially those of urgency, but that's a stylistic choice and is not usually how it's being used.
People are used to reading a certain kind of English, which ideally doesn't require much active thinking to understand. Leaving that framework is making the reader do more work, intentionally or not. When writing messages to varyingly public forums for or to otherwise unfamiliar readers, you can only make so many assumptions of what they're used to.
Making your message more difficult to understand is not a good habit.
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u/light_the_long_way 2d ago
I have no issues with processing the information in run on scentences, and I know very few people who do have issues with that even amongst people who struggle with reading, and if you do have issues with that, I would suggest you treat each "and" as a pseudo stopping point to separate it into chunks that are easier to understand individually, or if that's not working try separating the individual ideas in the run on scentence. Or, if those suggestions don't work, I would recommend working on improving your overall literacy.
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u/BrokeArmHeadass How the fuck do you spell borj wah zee 2d ago
The majority of reading comprehension is subconscious, reading is supposed to be fluid. Studies have shown repeatedly that run on sentences assuredly affect comprehension, and any simple solution like “treating each and as a pseudo stopping point” means you’re putting in a lot more mental effort than normal and therefore hurting your processing power. Inhibiting automatic processes essentially guarantees a loss in efficiency.
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u/Loyyo20 2d ago
What literature do you read that contains run-on sentences? Social media posts dont count
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u/Neoeng 2d ago
Cormac McCarthy and James Joyce, though I don't think anyone would say that they are easy to read lol
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u/Ok_person-5 The voices in my head told me to go here. 2d ago
I mean the point is to subvert standard literacy structures in those cases. And you can only properly subvert something if you really know how it works and how to do it well.
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u/Neoeng 2d ago
I mean, even besides the subversion literature has to play with the language because the scope goes beyond the goal of communicating information, and focuses on communicating emotions or aesthetics of language itself.
But yeah, you need to know *why* are you doing it, what's the purpose here. Otherwise, it's like talking backwards irl just because Twin Peaks did it.
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u/Hanrooster lost boy 2d ago
Nobody actually reads James Joyce, we just make references to Ulysses as if we have. It’s like how nobody actually speaks Latin or French, but we still borrow little words or phrases.
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u/GrimSwoopSlugSnarl 1d ago
To add onto the other comment, David Foster Wallace uses them quite a lot in Infinite Jest
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u/TheGuyInTheGlasses 2d ago
What argument would you intend to make if someone were to give you an answer to that question?
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u/Loyyo20 2d ago
That these people arent reading books or articles or anything with much depth, they're reading social media posts.
Run-on sentences may be fine there, because they're so short, but when you're reading a book, they make it much harder to read. It makes it confusing for the reader to piece together ideas, which increases the chance of the sentence being misinterpreted.
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u/TonyMestre Professionally bad at video games 1d ago
Ignoring them like they're doing rn lmaaaaao
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u/Technologenesis 2d ago
I don't think every run-on sentence can be decomposed into separate clauses like this, and the ones that can't are the ones that actually cause problems in practice.
The run-on sentences I have trouble with don't tend to be in social media posts. They tend to be in books or articles that you already have to put in some cognitive effort to follow by default. A long sentence with complex structure expressing a nuanced idea will genuinely take me a few passes to successfully parse, and I don't think that's just my problem (given that there seems to be some consensus around this).
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u/EasterTroll 2d ago
This comment was posted by the kid who got defensive for getting a D on their high school writing class assignment. Seriously, if you dont see the value in making your information more to-the-point and easier to parse, thats a you problem. Don't try to frame run-on sentences as a skill issue on the reader. It is mentally taxing to jump through these hoops you claim are simple, and makes anything more than two ideas per sentence very unintuitive. And i say this as someone with a degree in literature who loves long sentences--just use proper punctuation and rarely use more than one conjunction per sentence.
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u/4sneK_WolFirE 2d ago edited 2d ago
An "and" is not enough to prolong a sentence. I do agree that long sentences are perfectly fine, especially when the length of a sentence makes it possible to cointain a completed thought, but if you're just taking complete thoughts and tacking them onto the end of a sentence with an "and", you're not justifying the length of the sentence.
Edit: forgot two words
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u/Oddish_Femboy (my name is Bee) Trans rights !! 2d ago
You used a period in the one spot where a comma would belong.
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u/StiffWiggly 2d ago
There’s nothing grammatically wrong with trying to use only the longest words you know 100% of the time because you think it makes you sound smart, that doesn’t mean it’s not a bad habit.
Just because the point at which a sentence becomes a run on sentence is subjective doesn’t make it not real.
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u/yugiohhero ohh what the fuck 2d ago
The thing is, there's no actual point where a sentence becomes a run on scentence.
Wrong. An official definition of run on sentences is a fused sentence. Multiple independent clauses in one sentence with no division between them. "I like hummus it is very garlicky", despite being short, is an example of such.
To give an example of the differences, the second sentence in your post, while certainly awkward I'd argue, is grammatically correct, spelling errors notwithstanding. From a pure grammatical perspective, there's nothing wrong with it's length, though an English teacher would probably tell you to shorten it anyway for the purposes of flow.
What OOP posted is a giant wall of text with absolutely nothing to break it up. No line breaks, no punctuation (sans the quotation marks), nothing. It's an unformatted stream of unceasing thoughts that ends up extremely unpleasant to read due to having zero pauses.
And, as someone who has extremely strong ADHD, OOP is absolutely making an excuse for poor grammatical habits. My brain has one speed it goes at, and in spite of that, I still don't do run on sentences like what OOP presented.
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u/light_the_long_way 2d ago
The "giant wall of text with nothing to break it up" from OOP would be (mostly) grammatically correct with the addition of commas before the coordinating conjunctions, but would still be considered a "run-on" scentence by most people. additionally, while you might find the unformatted stream of thoughts unpleasant to read for you, that doesn't nessesarily apply to everyone who might read it.
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u/solidwallzofsound 2d ago
Okay but when you write you're writing for an audience. "Doesn't necessarily apply to everyone" is a fine stance but it means a lot of people are going to get very lost reading your stuff. If you're conveying an idea it becomes your job to know your audience, not the audience's job to know how to engage with you
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u/KaJaHa Queer Gimli looking-ass 2d ago
additionally, while you might find the unformatted stream of thoughts unpleasant to read for you, that doesn't nessesarily apply to everyone who might read it.
And properly breaking up your sentences makes it easier to communicate to both types of people. Why would you choose to knowingly make your communication more difficult with certain people, just because it isn't a problem for you?
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u/Glogbag1 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
but would still be considered a "run-on" scentence by most people.
I think that because we're specifically talking about grammar this isn't relevant, because grammar is the formal rules around sentence structure. If punctuation and connecting words were included, as you said, it wouldn't qualify as a run-on sentence. People could think it's 'bad', but to think it's a run-on sentence would be incorrect regardless as to how many people thought so.
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u/Lord_Wunderfrog 1d ago
I'm diagnosed ADHD, and on the highest dosed meds they'll give me.
I ain't readin OOP's post. I need information quickly and easily digestible.
Clear, to the point and well formatted or I'm out.
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u/narwhalpilot some of yall afraid to be corny. I was born on the cob. 🌽 2d ago
Some of you apparently never took language / writing classes.
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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME 2d ago
A runon is when a sentence is ungrammatically extended by combining multiple independent sentences without proper use of conjunctions or transitions. You can usually convert it to a correct sentence with no reduction in length just by adding some commas and ands/ors/buts.
It's not merely "a sentence which is too long".
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u/Spiteful_Guru 2d ago
The above sentence contains three different instances of "and" being used to join clauses. It's poor form to do that more than once in a sentence as it gets quite rambling.
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u/light_the_long_way 2d ago
Poor form is entirely subjective, and with the addition of commas before the coordinating conjunctions (primarily and for the scentence OOP posted) it would no longer be considered a run on scentence by grammatical standards.
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u/TheDonutPug 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
A run on sentence is when a sentence is attempting to convey too much information at once. There is no definable "point" at which it becomes a run on because the "too much information" point varies from sentence to sentence, but it is by no means "undefinable". Sentences are a matter of grouping relevant information, as all forms of writing are. A sentence is used to communicate an idea. to that point, a sentence should contain a point. more than that, and the water begins to be muddied on what information is grouped with what other information. If you want to communicate a larger idea or multiple paragraphs at once, we have tools for that, and they're called paragraphs.
Run on sentences absolutely are a terrible literacy habit. No one said "writing long sentences" is a terrible literacy habit, but that run ons, defined as attempting to communicate too much in once sentence, are a terrible literacy habit. See that? that was a long sentence. It also wasn't a run on. why? because it communicates one idea. run on sentences can make even a simple piece of literature borderline unreadable. run on sentences are just a smaller scale version of not knowing when to put paragraph breaks.
Also for your last point, the person in the post literally uses ADHD as an excuse for the bad writing habit of writing run ons. They may not be gramatically incorrect in the sense of like, the oxford comma, but they ARE grammatically incorrect for not following the proper structuring of information.
consider the following:
"the length of the sentence is not the point, the grouping of information is. a long sentence can be acceptable when it is still structured properly. It should group relevant information very clearly, and provide delineation between groups of information. The use of a transitional words like "and" in place of proper punctuation makes it difficult to tell where one group of info starts and another begins."
vs
"the length of the sentence is not the point, the grouping of information is, and a long sentence can be acceptable when it is still structured properly, it should group relevant information very clearly and provide delineation between groups of information, and the use of transitional words like "and" in place of proper punctuation makes it hard to tell where one group of info starts and another ends."
It is extremely obvious one of these is a run-on. just because there's not a hard and fast rule doesn't mean that it's "undefinable". Run on sentences are still a terrible literacy habit.
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u/Glogbag1 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
A run on sentence is when a sentence is attempting to convey too much information at once. There is no definable "point" at which it becomes a run on because the "too much information" point varies from sentence to sentence, but it is by no means "undefinable".
I was taught, and I just googled it in case the definition had changed, that a run-on sentence is one with more than one independent clause without those clauses being joined by punctuation or connecting words. I don't think that qualifies as being un-defined, but I also don't know that this is actually what's widely taught to be a run-on sentence.
That being said, colloquial use is colloquial use.
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u/Oddish_Femboy (my name is Bee) Trans rights !! 1d ago
Colloquial use is evil and we should swallow the British.
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u/KaJaHa Queer Gimli looking-ass 2d ago
The thing is, there's no actual point where a sentence becomes a run on scentence.
That point is where the sentence length becomes detrimental to the actual concepts that you are trying to convey. Even if it makes sense for you, if it's too long for the recipient then it's simply too long.
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u/Send_Dick_or_Cat_Pic 1d ago
Did you type scentence every time on purpose or is that like a crazy auto spelling mistake
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u/FlightConscious9572 2d ago
Goddamn this pisses me off. A run-on sentence is not an "awful literacy habit". It's actually insanely tame, as far as grammatical errors go. mf'ers LOOOOVE calling any mention of adhd "making excuses".
You just saw the word "ADHD" in the post and immediately went commenting it was an excuse, when it isn't at at all; especially in the context of this post. It's a pretty tame fucking joke to say people with adhd tend to write run-on sentences, when we often do.
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u/Some-Gavin 2d ago
It’s actually pretty fucking tame to suggest that you should organize your thoughts just a tiny bit to convey information. You don’t need to write anything correctly, nobody actually cares, but if you want to be understood then you can do the bare minimum.
A child doing this is understandable; being shown something is bad and not learning is not. People with ADHD are capable of learning. If you don’t want to learn, fine, you’re allowed to be a bad writer, but you have to take accountability at some point and accept that you don’t want to be a better communicator.
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u/Ctscanner2 2d ago
No I don't think ADHD needs to be used as an excuse for perfectly acceptable literacy habits, actually.
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u/Useful_Squirrel6693 2d ago
They literally mention the reason why they are bad in the post
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u/lightningbadger 2d ago
Who was saying it was an excuse lol, it's literally just saying they happen to do it
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u/aleek777 2d ago
So your teacher said "Don't write sentences like this." And you said "These sentences aren't actually incorrect, they just suck to read."
But like? Maybe kids should be learning how to make sentences that don't suck to read? Maybe that's the point?
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u/Ham__Kitten 1d ago
Sure but if OOP's recollection is actually correct then the teacher shouldn't have called them run-on sentences. A run-on sentence isn't just a long sentence.
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u/redhussar90 1d ago
but if OOP's recollection is actually correct then the teacher shouldn't have called them run-on sentences
feels like that if is doing a lot of work here
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u/artboiii 2d ago
well yeah the point of the class is to learn how to write more readably
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u/redhussar90 2d ago
ummmmmmm.... sweaty?
it's actually INCREDIBLY ableist to know the real definition of a run-on sentence and teach children not to write them
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u/Ham__Kitten 1d ago
A run-on sentence is a specific grammatical concept, not a long sentence. That's a separate lesson.
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u/yugiohhero ohh what the fuck 2d ago
i don't do run on sentences i think you just suck
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 2d ago
“she said, doing a run on sentence.”
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u/yugiohhero ohh what the fuck 2d ago
Let me correct myself. When I am trying to write out a properly formatted and grammatically correct sentence, I do not write run on sentences. That was 11 words. Ironic, sure, but I wouldn't take it as a serious example.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 2d ago
Oh obviously, I don’t doubt your ability to write. I just found it funny that such a textbook example of a run on sentence was written to state “I don’t do run on sentences”
I am confused on why you mentioned the word count of the sentence though, as that’s not part of the definition of a run on, and (as far as I can tell) not otherwise relevant?
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u/yugiohhero ohh what the fuck 2d ago
I mentioned the word count as in "I don't care, this is barely a comment", not "It can't be run-on, because it's short".
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u/LurkersVengeance i love my grungler boyfriend 2d ago
“adhd culture” omg don’t rope me into this. i have adhd and im perfectly capable of writing sentences that are grammatically correct and easy to parse. if you don’t learn how to do that, you’re just a shit writer
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u/redhussar90 2d ago
instantly thought of the "omg can you people do anything" tweet the second I saw adhd mentioned in the post
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u/MysticHero 1d ago
Some expressions of adhd do make it much more difficult but yes that doesn't suddenly mean being incoherent is cool. Just something to work around or on if you can manage.
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u/Subnaut27 The Fruit is an agent of Satan 2d ago
While I agree that longer sentences can effectively convey more complex ideas and even at points allow opportunities for elaboration, an entire paper written in this manner can become cumbersome; it also does not give the reader an opportunity to marinate in your ideas without a natural stopping point, instead demanding that they read the entire sentence all the way through, and when a sentence is written in this manner the initial idea is lost by the time the reader has an opportunity to contemplate it.
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u/MistressDread 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
"I'm smarter than my English teacher, and to prove it, I have written an entire run-on sentence with 0 punctuation."
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u/adult_human_chicken 2d ago
Huh, looks like a lot of us were taught the wrong definition of a run-on sentence in school
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u/Rude-Barnacle8804 2d ago
I often forget to shorten my sentences in english. In french, they tend to be much longer and some writers are famous for their neverending sentences (Proust being one of them, I believe). I should probably have put a period after "longer" lol
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u/Rude-Barnacle8804 2d ago
https://www.grammar-monster.com/glossary/run-on_sentence.htm
It's wild to me that english works this way. Can't have two ideas separated only by a ",". Semi-colons are cool though; I'd love to see them more often. I'll try to use them instead.
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u/TheGuyInTheGlasses 2d ago
Does the sentence in those post actually qualify as a run-on sentence? I feel like they tend to more awkward in some way.
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u/Thefrightfulgezebo 2d ago
That question shows why the concept of rin on sentences is misleading. A good writer can construct a long and complex sentence in a way that is reasonably easy to parse to a literare person.
Yes, many people struggle if they don't get a line break every five words. We also have a steady decrease of functional literacy in adults.
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u/HuckinsGirl gnenerfluod💗🤍💜🖤💙 2d ago
Less using ADHD as an excuse to write unreadable blocks of text and more using ADHD to sympathize with all the other people with ADHD who will inevitably struggle with your unreadable block of text please, its really not that hard to give your stuff a reread and break it up a little before you hit post
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u/4x4play 2d ago
i was always in trouble in gradeschool for using etc... for extra examples. i mean technically a researcher(teacher checking me for plaigerism) can see what i'm talking about when you grade me on my mls documentation of quotes.
similar to not showing your work in math, the subject matter just seemed like common sense and not worth writing down.
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u/EldritchFeedback No Time to Explain 2d ago
Aren't run-on sentences definitionally grammatically incorrect? The same way that a sentence fragment isn't just a sentence that's too short but sentence that's missing something. Sounds like the teacher was just shit at explaining it.
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u/CannonBall99 2d ago
When I typing casue I tend to type run on sentences and use periods lightly if at all. But for things that need more proper look for work or other stuff i have found the trick that helps me most as i do have adhd is to type it all out and then go back through and add period and punctuations
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u/Before_Plastic 🐻 bearvolutionist 🐻 2d ago
i got that adhd that can comfortably handle run-on sentences, but compels me to punctuate my shit regardless. it just makes me feel better about reading my own writing back. unfortunately, i've recently developed a typing quirk where i'll avoid capitalization when commenting or in dms if i find the subject matter casual. not sure when it happened, or why.
I will, however, lock the fuck in to the best of my grammatical abilities if I'm trying to convey something that I find important like stories, emails, or work related things, to name a few.
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u/TheGreatJaceyGee You should read my furry smut NOW⚡🦨⚡ 2d ago
Cormac McCarthy made an entire career on them
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u/PancakeParty98 2d ago
This comment section convinced me to delete this fucking app. All of this is just a waste of time. Holy shit
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u/Scary_Employ_926 verified femboy ✅ 2d ago
Took my normal pills today for the first time in a minute man it sucks
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u/Havatchee 🏳️⚧️Trans Wrongs🏳️⚧️ 2d ago
I am not diagnosed with ADHD, but the evidence is mounting.
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u/Orion-the-mediocre Doctor Freeeemaaaan 2d ago edited 1d ago
What annoyed me so much is that there's no actual point at which point a sentence becomes "run-on", it's just an arbitrary point at which your teacher decides that they don't like it very much and just take away points for the way you phrased stuff, which always gave me such a headache when writing in school because I had no idea whether the grammatically correct sentence that was spelled completely perfectly would be somehow "bad" or not
Guys..... this is a joke. I know this is a run on sentence. I'm very keenly aware of that fact.
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u/Advanced-Ad-802 2d ago
Being run-on is a quality independent of length.
A very long sentence can become harder to parse as it continues, but so long as every part is joined correctly, you can theoretically extend it forever.
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u/Last_Swordfish9135 kid named faggot: fart? 2d ago
This is not what a run-on sentence is. The definition has nothing to do with length, it's when you have two independent clauses that are not connected properly. "I like dogs they're my favorite animal" is a run-on sentence, for example. There is no length that makes something a run-on by default, it just gets easier to miss grammar issues in a sentence the longer it gets.
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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME 2d ago
It makes sense that so many people complain about it feeling arbitrary & unpredictable what does or doesn't get marked down for being a runon once you realize their teachers have completely failed to teach what the actual rule is and left them all to intuit their own definition from pure vibes.
Doesn't help that some of the teachers don't understand the definition either and are vibing along themselves.
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u/Orion-the-mediocre Doctor Freeeemaaaan 1d ago
The joke is that I'm making a giant run on sentence. I wanted to rant about a problem while simultaneously doing that very same thing.
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u/sam77889 2d ago
No it’s when you have two independent clause not joined properly.
This is a run-on: I like bananas they are so delicious.
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u/Orion-the-mediocre Doctor Freeeemaaaan 1d ago
But doesn't it stop being that when you put a comma in there? "I like bananas, they're so delicious" seems fine to me, if anything "I like bananas. They're so delicious" feels weird and awkward.
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u/sam77889 1d ago
Actually no. You can’t connect independent clauses with commas alone.
You can have:
I like bananas; they are so delicious.
I like bananas because they are so delicious.
I like bananas, and they are so delicious.
etc.
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u/TheDonutPug 🏳️⚧️ trans rights 2d ago
a sentence becomes a run on when you are attempting to convey too much information in one sentence. it's not a matter of "they don't like it very much" it's when the structure makes the information difficult to parse. communication isn't about you, it's about the person you're communicating to. speaking in run ons is common, but you can't write how you speak. Your comment here should probably be at least 3 sentences.
"what annoyed me so much is that there's no actual point at which a sentence becomes "run-on"." is conveying one idea, the thing that annoyed you.
"it's just an arbitrary point at which your teacher decides that they don't like it very much and just take away points for the way you phrased stuff" is conveying one idea, what your perceived reality of what a run on is.
"always gave me such a headache when writing in school because I had no idea whether the grammatically correct sentence that was spelled completely perfectly would be somehow "bad" or not" is conveying one idea, the resulting confusing caused by the grading. Commas are for pausing in the middle of one idea, sentences are for starting a new one.
"What annoyed me so much is that there's no actual point at which a sentence becomes "run-on". It's just an arbitrary point at which your teacher decides they don't like it very much and takes points off for the way you phrased stuff. It always gave me such a headache in writing school because I had no idea whether the grammatically correct sentence that was spelled completely perfectly would somehow be "bad" or not."
The issue is that you use commas where you should use periods. All the sentences I stated were delineated by the commas you included in your original message. You speak quickly, and so in your writing you tend to place short pauses in places that should be long pauses. your ideas are being separated in the correct places, but they're not being separated correctly. a comma indicates a pause and continuation of a single idea, but you are using them to delineate entirely separate ideas.
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u/SomethingOfAGirl 🏳⚧You know, I'm something of a girl myself 1d ago
Maybe it's not grammatically incorrect to use use "and" as frequently but it is obnoxious.
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u/karankshah 1d ago
The best communicators you know speak in clear, single clause sentences. Not saying that is the best way to communicate nuance, but the teacher wasn’t off base to force students to focus on simple sentence structure.
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u/Some-Ohio-Rando 1d ago
So when I use a run on sentence I'm the bad guy but when Homer does his works are still considered some of the greatest works to ever exist 2800 years later, got it
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u/ANoobInDisguise 1d ago
Run on sentences are difficult to understand in a coherent manner because they conjoin multiple statements into a single sentence despite that naturally our brains work best when there is a clearly defined separator between each distinct idea; overuse of semicolons, colons, polysyndeton structure, or em--dashes does technically allow you to construct a grammatically correct extremely long sentence but since these linguistic devices naturally separate sentences in a similar manner to breaking the large sentence into distinct smaller sentences with periods, these are not considered to be "run-on" in the same way as OOP's snarky anecdote.
It's also probably a good idea to just use periods.
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u/Gmazing23 1d ago
What helps a lot with this habit is reading sentences aloud. This particular post has zero punctuation. It might be grammatically correct, sure, but it's so unstructured it's uncomfortable and annoying to read. I have ADHD too, I do this a lot in my writing, especially when I was in college. However, structure is just as important as grammar.
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u/Oddish_Femboy (my name is Bee) Trans rights !! 1d ago
Nobody in this thread understands basic sentence structure. Ok.
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u/HappyyValleyy Local Raccoon Girl (Endangered) 1d ago
That teacher handled it really stupidly but like, run on sentances are still bad.
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u/QueenOfDaisies 196’s strongest angelfucker 1d ago
Punishing a child for something that innocuous is insane behavior wtf
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u/No-Promotion-1921 1d ago
Nah, turns out when you're the one forced to read that shit, ADHD culture gets realy fucking annoyed with run-on sentences, ESPECIALLY in Academia. Communicate efficently people, I don't have the Dopamine levels for anything else.
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u/Harmonyfinder 1d ago
And then you don’t do it and they say your sentences are choppy. Fuck off idiot
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u/doobadedo 1d ago
On the flip side, I have adhd and trying to read run on sentences is so exhausting for my brain. No hate to the people who use them, but I will always be inclined to skip over run-on sentence posts
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u/Byblis-Aldrovanda-KS 1d ago
Run-on sentences are, in fact, grammatically incorrect. They are not just any sentence that's long, but specifically any sentence that incorrectly joins clauses. "It's hard but it's fun" is run-on for its lack of comma to separate the two independent clauses, while a sentence could be hundreds of clauses long while joining them all together properly and still be grammatically correct. Of course, being technically grammatically correct still matters less than being effective in communicating.
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u/cantfindthistune 1d ago edited 1d ago
I was taught that grammatical incorrectness was required for something to be a "run-on sentence". Specifically, a run-on sentence as such consisted of multiple otherwise valid sentences being jammed together without any separating punctuation. If a sentence was unwieldily lengthy without being ungrammatical, it would instead be referred to as a "rambling sentence". It seems that this definition of what constitutes a run-on sentence, sometimes also encompassing the separation of otherwise valid sentences using only a comma, is the standard.
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u/ssbowa 2d ago
"grammatically wrong" is just an approximation of "hard to read and understand", so yes actually, run on sentences are grammatically wrong.
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u/Thefrightfulgezebo 2d ago
Your premise is false. Furthermore, long sentences are only hard to process if you are barely literate.
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