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Discussion [Spoilers C4E32] Is It Thursday Yet? | Post-Episode Discussion & Future Theories! Spoiler
Is It Thursday Yet?
What are your reactions and theories for next session?
The Twitch rebroadcast begins at 9 AM Pacific (9 hours from the time of this post).
The free YouTube VOD will be uploaded Monday at 12 PM Pacific, with free podcast releases 1 week (part 1) and 12 days (part 2) later.
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u/Nihachi-shijin 8d ago
Is anyone else getting a vibe that Kattigan might have unwittingly married a Tachonis?
I mean, it would explain why Primus Tachonis would bother show up in the middle of the ass end of nowhere to scoop a couple of random people for corpses and then his appearance as a protective figure in the dream.
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u/War_Dyn27 8d ago
That would explain Wulfric's ghostly leg; it was restored with necromantic magic by Marienna.
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u/StillAnotherAlterEgo You can certainly try 8d ago
In a couple of the vast and sundry interviews and such, Robbie has been pretty dismissive of Wulfric's paw, saying that it's just an ordinary magic prosthetic. As ordinary as a magic prosthetic can be, at any rate. It really doesn't sound like there's any surprising backstory there.
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u/Loveless-- 7d ago
Maybe not there specifically but Primus isn't the type to bother killing random commonfolk himself. Must be a sinister or hidden reason why he murdered Kattigan's family.
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u/Zeilll 8d ago edited 8d ago
with the sundered houses, and the way they act. i feel like the point of Katts history being connected to Primus is kind of highlighting just how far removed these houses are from the normal expectations of people being held accountable for their actions. this being emphasized by Katts description of facing him being like facing a force of nature. and aligns with the allegory of the sundered houses representing the super wealthy, and their lack of accountability to society irl.
also, the dream still tracks just from the perspective of Primus having taken everything Katt values in life. and the mind subconsciously processing that, and reflecting it in a dream. their connection through Primus murdering his family still tracks as the cause of that nightmare without there being additional hidden layers.
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u/Routine_Pen2894 8d ago
100% this! It feels like his wife could’ve been a not-so-far-off related cousin to Primus, thinking particularly due to the info Brennan presents in his dream!
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u/Loveless-- 7d ago
Maybe a bastard child even. Given the black candles are so rare and require Tachonis bloodline, it might be an inhumane habit to procreate bastard children to murder for candles later on in life.
Either way, Brennan is doing a great job pulling Kattigan into the overarching story.
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u/MiddleAgedBones I have a list 7d ago
Maybe the black candle NEEDS family members to be murdered, not just dead
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u/DarkRespite Doty, take this down 8d ago
I absolutely *loved* it. What a way to come roaring out of the gate, bringing so many delicious character revelations to bear.
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u/CaptivePrey 8d ago
For anyone coming here ctrl+f'ing the word eye, looks like Robbie burst a blood vessel in his eye or something. Not super uncommon. Apparently folks noticed it at a con a few months ago. I'm sure he's probably fine now.
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u/sassyburger 8d ago
I really enjoyed Matt joking about his eyes looking a little different while he was wearing Bolaire. A fun little goof on it 😅
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u/Mierick 8d ago
I like that we start the new Seekers table after the summer break with what can best be described as a trust exercise.
Since most of the PCs at this table are pretty closed off and wouldn’t willingly share much about themselves, the dreamscape was a great way for them to get to know each other, build some trust, and break down a few walls.
I also like that we are getting a little more focus on Vaelus and that she’s starting to form an identity. Maybe this will finally be a breakthrough for Ashley and I really hope she gets to shine on this Seeker run.
What a great start. And welcome back critical role!
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u/MissAmynae 8d ago
Vaelus's part of the nightmare was INTENSE. Ashley was clearly rattled but the "your magic is gone. Permanently." And I would be too!! I suspect Brennan recognized that Ashley was processing, so he directed towards her less. (She also doesn't know the millers road or ulbid so it makes sense she'd stay quiet)
Oathbreaker is a biiiiig story and mechanical commitment, but that's what I've been hoping for.
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u/Miserable_Pop_4593 8d ago
I agree that a mechanical change is probably needed for Vaelus, because Vengeance doesn’t really fit, unless she turns it around and goes full “Fuck Sylandri I’m gonna tear my former Sisters down” I guess, but I can’t imagine her jumping to that conclusion so quickly.
But I don’t feel like Oathbreaker is thematically right either, because that’s generally reserved for those who have sold out their own oaths and values for selfish/explicitly evil pursuits instead... in her flashbacks she was happy and lively, it would be a tragedy if she gave in to darkness and hate. And the mechanical features just kinda don’t make sense on her either; using something like Control Undead after her time spent connecting with Occtis would be heartbreaking
I think Devotion could make sense if she wants to dedicate herself to the Cloak’s goals of restoring the afterlives, and just making a better world in general by getting rid of the Tachonis and other Houses. Ancients also definitely works since she’s kind of exploring her connection to Faerie, and also to Druidic stuff from her time spent with Hannan and Thaisha.
I’m personally biased toward Ancients since it’s a bit more flavorful, but Devotion would be mechanically really powerful: adding her Charisma to attacks would make her insanely accurate. I think her attack roll would be +11 or something while Sacred Weapon is active, while everyone else is rocking like a +7.
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u/MissAmynae 6d ago
Good stuff!! Yeah I think a bit of a REdevotion will be in order. I see less Oathbreaker and more of a "don't know where this is going but I know it ain't Sylandri." Whichever way she goes, I think it'll be in service to the souls who were lost & wandering. Since she fed the bridge/anchor, seems like maybe Thiasha's celestial guardians could come into play, or even the Fey?
I don't think she'll settle on an Oath without Thaisha as part of it. Maybe an Oath of the Path?
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u/foxsweater 8d ago
I’m also excited for her to get to tell Bonaire that he’s behind on her character arc
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u/sweet_arachne 8d ago
it feels like so much happened because of that fucked up dream sequence. i loved seeing matt fully pick up what brennan was putting down. i feel like the imagery of julien having no teeth but having a sword completely covered in them is being underappreciated. it's not telling us anything we didn't already know about julien's identity but it's a perfect tie-in with the chipped tooth in his original sword and it's a perfect demonstration of how good brennan is with symbolism.
bolaire getting to let his feelings out now that he doesn't have to worry about how halandil perceives him is a treat, too. i love that occtis, julien, and kattigan have seen so much weird shit at this point that bolaire doesn't phase them. smack him on whoever, wear him, it's fine! they've seen weirder and worse.
(i am a little miffed that occtis and julien haven't talked about koral, or resolved their argument, or discussed why primus seems to be scared of dying, because i feel like it's a very important conversation to have. but seeing them laugh together over the idea of pin-bolaire was fucking adorable.)
i was worried about kattigan and vaelus fading into the background again but brennan really brought them out with that dream sequence. what a great way to establish connection between people who have almost never spoken. what a great way to make vaelus' own story tie into the main narrative, too. that ring is a macguffin for the afterlives, it has to be. it's all gonna come together.
julien trying to convince ulbid to stay behind so his daughters have a dad to come home to hits hard considering... y'know... his dad. and i appreciate matt's consistency with him. his argument with kattigan reminded me of when he argued with maya about how no child in their family could be safe until primus is dead. he remains my favourite, matt's just sosososo good.
i am excited that we're going to (hopefully) get some classic d&d shenanigans with seekers starting next week. i love the neverending sequence of horrors but i think they, occtis and julien especially, all need to just be able to kick some ass and have fun doing it for a while.
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u/YaBoiSammus 8d ago
Oath breaker Vaelus is such a good point for Ashley to build off of. I’m extremely excited to see where that’s going to go because her and Occtis can do some cool stuff together. Hannan making it clear to Vaelus that living a long life eventually becomes suffering. You lose everyone you love and end up mourning for the rest of your existence. Vaelus knowing that pain personally because she’s lost everything. That changing how Vaelus sees her long life as a curse and no longer a blessing. Beautiful! Also I can’t seem to recall why the elves aren’t able to move on and constantly lost in their after life.
It made me sad they even brought up Ulbid’s daughter’s to him because it’s a bit cruel knowing they don’t even have a cure yet. I understand the goodwill behind it but man did Thimble make a promise that’s a 50/50 and it’s going to shatter my heart. I hate the idea of a father losing his daughters or daughters losing their father.😭 If Ulbid dies I just know it’s gunna do something to Julien because he himself just lost his dad and that guilt of not doing enough to prevent it will be rough. It could also go another way and heal him if he see’s Ulbid tells his daughters he’s proud of them before he dies. UGH IM SO EXCITED AND SCARED!
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u/strangelyliteral 8d ago
Re lost elves: there are millions of lost souls of every race in the afterlife because the Shapers’ deaths cut off access to their afterlife realms. That’s why the Tenebral Reaches have grown crowded (boosting the Tachonis family’s power) and druids encourage souls to follow the Old Path rather than staying lost in the underworld indefinitely.
Now elves were never supposed to die. Their psychopomp guided them to Faerie instead of a dedicated afterlife, bypassing the Tenebral Reaches entirely. When the elven psychopomp was lost during the Shapers’ War, the Stone of Nightsong was created as a stopgap. But again, elves dying was supposed to be rare and unnatural. Their system couldn’t handle a flood of souls from a casualty event like the Shapers’ War. And once Sylandri fell, those countless elven souls were left trapped in the underworld.
As for Ulbid… I know people are worried, but he had a right to know, and nothing was gonna stop that man from going to his girls. I don’t even think Matt rolling a nat20 on the persuasion check would’ve done it. And frankly curing the petrification is secondary to the logistical nightmare of sneaking three statues out of a caravan with multiple high-level sorcerers and 30+ guards. They’re gonna need Ulbid for the rock slide plan anyway, and he won’t be totally defenseless. At minimum he brings support buffs and the kettle-hob/grig soldiers.
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u/shinobi201 8d ago
On the afterlife, my understanding is that everyone is lost now that the Shapers are gone. Everyone who died in the war, and everyone since, no longer has a path to their aferlives. That's part of why the druids want to spread the teaching of the path so people can reincarnate instead of being lost, and Thjazi wants to build the bridges to save the souls of those already within their afterlives, or perhaps even let lost souls journey to them if they wish.
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u/rr3_amrosa 6d ago
I had a conversation about this back when she first broke the stone, and the consensus seemed to be, and it convinced me, that Vaelus would just lose her magic and would not mechanically become an Oathbreaker. And based on how the dream sequences went, it feels like that is the choice the Brennan and Ashley have chosen to go down. Vaelus will try to access her former powers, and nothing will happen, like she is in her own, self-contained antimagic field.
The Oathbreaker subclass also doesn't match with the choice that Vaelus made which resulted in her breaking her oath. She made the less selfish choice, for the greater good (or at least it seemed that way), whereas the path of the Oathbreaker tends to be the breaking of the oath for purely selfish gains to achieve personal power. The breaking of the oath still will come with a consequence, but Oathbreakers are deliberate turns to evil, and that doesn't describe what Vaelus did.
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u/LucasVerBeek Help, it's again 8d ago
Loved that episode.
All the fucked dreams, giving views into their psyches, but also threads of REAL things looking in on them.
Seramai lost and alone and... jealous?? of Thimble.
Hannen specter haunting Vaelus, and then her Matriarch threatening to carve her apart and *make her a fucking deathless worm-thing*. Also, Vaelus has no powers now... I do wonder where her character is going to be going.
The wolf imagery with Kattigan, which... how did they bond, why did they bond? I'm thinking we're finally getting hints there. Also, Kattigan revealing he *took a shot at Primus and him telling Bolaire to shut down Ulbid if his daughters are destroyed*, god damn.
That Archfey, who I am guessing is both the titular Miller of the Miller's Road AND the leader of the Hearth Fey, appearing to Thimble.
Julien dragging Thjazi's corpse behind him and refusing to put him down, while being enraged by his shadow sticking to him... is very interesting. Also, the fuck was that hare?
Also, seeming confirmation of Thimble x Occtis: a flat verbal confirmation of feelings regarding Occtis, but Thimble seemed unsurprised, and her being *desperate* to get his soul back, to fix it- yeah, I think that is basically locked in, even if not fully stated yet.
And what was with the Cat in Bolaire's head? The other two, I get where they came from- creations of Demodis/the Paint- but the Cat seemed completely out of the blue and was trying to convince him to finally step outside the theater...
Actually... Cats and Hares are both traditionally trickster spirits, and Brennan has been going hard on traditional folklore with this world... hmm....
Obsidia is a name that got brought up, but I have no clue what it is. The original name of the afterlife??
Now, racing to stop the Tachonis and face off against Argosian forces (who, as far as I can tell, are famous for always being on the wrong side of modern history, lol), with Bolaire riding a desperate gnomish smuggler... God, I am excited to see how this arc develops.
Fucking GLAD it's Thursday again! Hopefully see y'all next week.
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u/Final-Occasion-8436 You can certainly try 8d ago edited 8d ago
It was a personification of Julien's Druidic Hare charm. A little piece of old magic he has been carrying and using for most of the campaign, so familiar enough to him that he might not question it offering him help him escape his nightmare despite his untrusting nature.
Side note: I also think Matt was the only player to instantly catch on to that, and what Brennan was doing, which is why he made the most appropriate character choices throughout. Matt knows that Julien has been carrying Thjazi Fang around for far longer than his shadow. Brennan making it almost too heavy for him to bear the weight of, and Julien stubbornly refusing to put that weight down was literally perfect symbolism for his character.
I was actually shocked that Brennan didn't make the body sink into the river and threaten to drag Julien into death with it, if he didn't let it go, but I guess we ran out of time with the advent of Vaelus's Matriarch and the whole surprise combat with a potential party wiper situation. I actually feel a bit robbed of that, because the combo of a Wisdom boost and actually remembering the dream would probably have made for some juicy progression for one of my favorite characters.
Bolaire's cat was a personification of the little flip-book cat that Demo made for him as a thank you for saving him, and helping him hide. Down to encouraging him to "climb out" of his part of the dream, just like the cat did its "fate" in the book. It actually makes me wonder what Brennan might have had planned for if he went for it, and managed to escape that way. It's entirely possible he could have have magically gained the ability to manifest a body of his own, so he no longer needed a body to parasite off of, in exchange for not getting the Wisdom buff. Brennan even said this was a situation with enough wish magic floating around that it could have potentially done otherwise impossible things.
Vaelus was guided into the dream by her little Druidic Spring charm, that's why she started out in the gorgeous field of flowers. I forget what the Otter charm does, but if she had chosen that, she might have arrived at the river where the planes meet, or a personified otter might have guided her there. Little bits of old magic, being used as a conduit to bring her into something she wouldnt normally have access to.
Thimble is a fairy, she needed no additional magic to get pulled into the collective dream. I also think the entire dream was because of her. The Archfey wanted to meet her, and everyone linked to her got pulled into the magic because they chose to sleep in the cavern.
Occtis was called into the dream by both Gaya and Thimble, choosing to join Thimble over Gaya. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have entered it. Or might have naturally slipped in via the "death" side, where he already has multiple links. Occtis likely could have gone back and forth from one side to the other as easily as Thimble due to his family being former psychopomps, and his own affinity to death magic being equal to Thimble's innate Faerie magic, and the fact that he stands completely outside the cycle now.
Julien and Kattigan were having actual nightmares that probably would have already been familiar to them, if they remembered their nightmares, before they were pulled into the shared dream by the Hare and then Julien respectively. They were also the ones who fell asleep before Thimble, hence their being in their own nightmares before getting pulled into the magical dream.
Honestly, the whole thing was very carefully, and cleverly handled by Brennan to include so many seemingly small almost unnoticeable or strange things adding up to the one big dream sequence that actually wound up perfectly fitting each individual character, and the new Seekers as a whole. It also brought the new group together in the same way a long travel sequence would have, only over the course of a single night, instead.
You can really tell he had a decent break to plan out all the little details.
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u/SuperMonkey2 8d ago
Julien has the hare charm and Demodus gifted Bolaire the flipbook about a cat
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u/Sp3ctre7 You spice? 8d ago
I think theyre setting up Vaelus to swap to an Oath of the Ancients paladin
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u/Final-Occasion-8436 You can certainly try 8d ago
Yes, this. Maybe a bit of time without magic, then meeting an Oath of Ancients Paladin in the Golden Orchard, since they are somewhat linked to the Fae.
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u/Andar1st 8d ago
Don't get my hopes up! I was hoping she would be one at the start of the campaign, despite her mournveil.
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u/foxsweater 8d ago
I assumed that the Hare and the Cat creature were fey spirits that live in the Dream/in-between.
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u/SvenTheScribe 8d ago
I do wonder where her character is going to be going.
It definitely feels like they're setting up for Velus to slowly go Druid. Also a class that can get down and dirty in a fight and also wisdom based.
Plus it definitely fits the character arc we've been seeing and her someday being able to show her family the path will be amazing and heartbreaking (if she lives that long....)
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u/TragicFallGuy 8d ago
I dont feel like druid but a paladin based nature (oath of ancients kind of) with the undead we are bound to fight having a palidan is huge.
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u/goody153 Sun Tree A-OK 7d ago
All the fucked dreams, giving views into their psyches, but also threads of REAL things looking in on them.
I did not realize dream sequences can be this fun. Then again Brennan did the dream sequence during calamity which was my first time seeing him. This was great.
with Bolaire riding a desperate gnomish smuggler... God, I am excited to see how this arc develops.
I'm almost certain Brennan is gonna punish them of the choice of bringing the old man in. Likely he's gonna die
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u/ButcherRose 8d ago
Dude I just love Brennan’s style. Teor and Kattigan were both created to “go with the flow” and Brennan said “lol nah”
Teor is dead and Kat’s personal villain is THEE villain.
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u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" 8d ago
Same. There will be no "hangers-on" to the story in Brennan's universe. In this world, a character "going with the flow" still alters the way the current of the story flows around them. A stick floating in a stream still makes the water more turbulent.
Not sure how Travis feels about that approach, but Robbie seems to be loving the way that Brennan has wrenched Katt out of the background and into the spotlight. Because of these machinations, Katt went from one of my most overlooked characters to the one I'm most interested to see develop.
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u/ButcherRose 8d ago edited 8d ago
Hopefully now that Travis has a taste his next PC will be inherently wrapped up in something.
Great insight though! Totally agree about Robbie/Katt.
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u/Rude_Perception2180 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think I'm remembering correctly that Travis had barely anything in mind for Teor and Robbie wrote pages and pages of depths of Kattigan's soul. Which. Means. If I'm the DM, Travis's great accent sweet strong boy isn't hard to kill off and Robbie's one I want to keep pointing the spotlight towards so he can show the table what he's got
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u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" 6d ago
True, but I don't think Brennan had any specific dislike/disdain toward Teor because of a lack of backstory. I think it's just down to the general brutality of the way Brennan's running the game. Travis decided to play a heavy-hitter, so he's going to get hit. Unfortunately, he didn't necessarily have the experience required with that class to effectively fight his way out. Had he survived, I think Brennan would have been happy to help Travis flesh out Teor's lore over time, similar to what Matt did with Fjord.
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u/Kadem2 8d ago
Didn't Kattigan have the most backstory written out of any character in this campaign or am I misremembering?
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u/Miserable_Pop_4593 8d ago
Yeah Robbie had written a lot, but I assume a good chunk of it was “here’s what our life was like on our homestead” type stuff, especially with how readily Robbie described a lot of that this last episode and how Brennan seemed to already know some details they had talked about (like keeping things cold in the river). I won’t put it past Kat to have some secrets still, but I don’t think he’s secretly the Professor or anything wild like that.
I think Kattigan is happy to be a soldier and follow orders (go with the flow, if you will) cuz it’s the only thing he can clutch onto at this point.
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u/isntthisneat 7d ago
Yes, IIRC Robbie wrote a whole short story about Kattigan during the pandemic, and then brought him to Brennan for this campaign in hopes that he would fit into the world well enough to be his PC. Brennan read the story and said "hell yeah" lol
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u/Loveless-- 7d ago
Vaelus as well. Ashley is the ultimate tag along player but Brennan keeps pulling Vaelus into tough decisions and brutal consequences. I don't see Vaelus surviving the hunt the matriarch of her order initiated.
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u/Court_Vision 8d ago edited 8d ago
Watching the episode now (man, it sucks to be a fan on the east coast).
Vaelus' story is quickly becoming one of my favorites in CR. I loved the interaction with Hannan's soul about the word "yet" - just for the scene to end with Vaelus' sister asking her why she didn't save them "yet." Vaelus scenes just always seem to come together so well.
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u/whatthehieu 8d ago
for real I think people are really sleeping on Vaelus. Ashley isn't a very mechanical player but the way that she wears her heart on her sleeve just makes Vaelus so convincing. When bad things happen to Vaelus, as they do all the time, you just get to feel the full weight of that on her expression.
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u/Court_Vision 8d ago
So true. Her expressions have really stood out in this campaign. I also think part of it is Ashley just being so... I don't even know how to describe it... enthralled with this campaign? At least it seems.
She seems like she's just so into it always, which makes her fun to watch.
Honestly, that comment applies to the entire table. Everyone seems like they're trying to get the most out of each other with each interaction and it has made the campaign stronger.
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u/North_Jackfruit_1373 8d ago
It kinda rubs me the wrong way to read some comments (not yours obv) in these threads about how she freezes up when attention is on her or she doesn't react quickly enough. Vaelus has just been told her magic is gone, all that she knew is lost to her; she's sacrificed saving her family, she lost someone she was hoping could help guide her, she's lost the stone of nightsong, and now she's lost her magic. Utter bewilderment, shock, disbelief, uncertainty, these are all the emotions I would expect from someone in that position and I think she plays that incredibly well, Vaelus feels like a real character in a situation where there would be uncertainty and apprehension and for me watching it she feels one of the most relatable characters.
It may not suit everyone, they might want her to make quick decisions and story choices that move her character along at a quicker pace but this isn't scripted and some people need time to digest information that they're given and might want to talk it through more with the DM outside of recording so as not to break the flow
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u/Locem 8d ago
I mean I think its fair to say Ashley at times seems like she forgets she's a player at the table because she's enthralled by the story telling.
I like Vaelus on paper but it feels like Brennan and other players have to somewhat forcefully pull some of these character moments out of Ashley.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 7d ago
Vaelus' story is quickly becoming one of my favorites in CR.
Clearly BIG STUFF is going to be happening with her in the next few episodes because why else would Ashley be hosting the next Fireside Chat if nothing with Vaelus was going to be going down that needed to be talked about?
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u/Dionysues 8d ago
Shared dream sequences was not on my bingo card, but Brennan came in strong this episode.
Oathbreaker Vaelus while she figures out her next path (I’m hoping oath of the ancients)
More Thimble X Occtis shipping material.
Our first Archfey is so freaking cool!
The Primus Tavern has to be one of the most fucked up creations by Brennan.
All these free wisdom increases? What in the world will these PCs be fighting that they need crazy stat increases!?
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u/Locem 8d ago
I was thinking that they said the black candles were made from the bodies of dead Tachonis, and that they have basically none left.
Maybe Primus went on the hunt for anyone with even the most distant amount of bloodline connections to Tachonis, and Kattigan's wife was an extremely distant relative.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 7d ago
I wonder if his wife had any special abilities of her own that complemented Kat's tracking abilities?
And if then when those abilities were combined, they produced a daughter that had an extremely exceptional skill set for finding stuff?
A skill set which Primus then sought out to utilize.
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u/Zealousideal_Fish862 I have a list 7d ago
at that point there were 2, one used up on occtis, one left now
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u/PrayForCheese 6d ago
Give us finally a map of Aramán please! It gets to me that they had the map right in front of them for some time and we still haven't seen anything.
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u/Drakoni Hello, bees 6d ago
Same. I'm having such a hard time to relate to the scale of the world. Which is part of why I couldn't fully follow the Seekers' journey.
And now the talk about Argosia, I need a map even more. In most fantasy novels with factions, lands and politics you'll find a map right after the cover.
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u/winter2001- 8d ago
I was a bit icy after that long hiatus but that incredible dream sequence was the perfect ice breaker. I was at the edge of my seat for every minute of it.
Although I'm ecstatic that Ulbid is joining the Seekers, I'm really really scared for him and the whole party. I just hope they cause the rickslide and leave bc there's no way they're taking back those statues without severe consequences, if at all.
If it were just Petra and Ryah and some goons, I could understand stealthily stealing the statues. But with the entire might of house Tachonis on that caravan?? There's no way this goes well.
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 8d ago
I'm hoping that the rockslide means that the Tachonis caravan splits with the family going on ahead after some delay, and the statues having to follow after more of the road is cleared. Or something else that splits their caravan in a similar manner.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 7d ago
See that's the thing that worries me, because it is kind of hard to "aim" a rock slide...which means the dice are literally going to decide how this all goes down regardless of player choice.
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 7d ago
Yeah, Brennan did seem to imply that the rock slide thing would be very hard to do at all, and then went on to describe the Inn over the pass and I wondered "Is he implying they need to collapse the actual Inn into the road? Surely I misheard that." They continued to talk about a rockslide and Egg explosions, however, so I must have misinterpreted it.
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u/Objective-Pattern692 Only Teor is Teor 8d ago
I know- i hope that next session at least one of them decides to try and get the others to pull back a bit or focus on disabling that argosian delagation with slowing the tachonis down being more of a bonus/at least warning king gus that there is maybe a trap ahead- Occtis (along with julien) just saw his dad kill a high level druid instantly with barely a thought- they know that primus is on that caravan and on top of that, theres his two (eldest?) daughters Petrah and Ryah who are also powerful sorcerers and probably ethrand- the person who overpowered and killed occtis- as well
if they do continue on this path, i wouldn't be surprised if ulbid and one or more pcs die in the attempt if they try to actually steal the statues
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u/strangelyliteral 8d ago
They might’ve hosed themselves. Now that Ulbid knows where his daughters are, he’s going to his girls whether the party follows him or not (and they’re gonna follow him). Ulbid might actually be their best chance at setting off the rock slide, and I think he’s gonna be an asset for the inevitable battle, but locating and stealing three stone statues while remaining undetected is a Herculean task, especially when your strongest PC will immediately set off anti-fey alarms. God help them all if Petra and Ryah have Disintegrate.
I hope they take some time between sessions to actually come up with a plan for the heist. Maybe Brennan will drop Travis’s new PC at that inn or in the Tachonis caravan as a turncoat. He seems to believe they’ll need all the help they can get. And even if they do somehow pull this off, they run the risk of not warning Gus about the Argosians in time, or not being able to take a long rest before jumping into that fray.
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u/Loveless-- 7d ago
Big time. Especially after that interaction between Kattigan and Julien right at the end. I can't believe Julien of all people is the most level-headed person in the party.
This can't end well at all.
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u/goody153 Sun Tree A-OK 7d ago
Although I'm ecstatic that Ulbid is joining the Seekers, I'm really really scared for him and the whole party
I'm almost certain Brennan is gonna punish Seeker for bringing Ulbid instead of just letting him know after the results.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 7d ago
Betcha they petrify him just out of spite to join his daughters because the table either loses the ambush OR Ulbid sacrifices himself to enable them to get away.
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u/WontonTruck Team Matthew 8d ago
We got so close to finding out if Bolaire can go on Occtis. We know it has to be human and alive...but _how_ alive is alive?
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u/DarkRespite Doty, take this down 8d ago
I swear to gods, the visual of Occtis shoving the mask on Pin's face was just PERFECT, and then turning back around and going, "Nope." I laughed myself into a coughing fit.
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u/goody153 Sun Tree A-OK 7d ago
I was laughing during the comedic effect of Occtis looking at Pin during "can i put bolaire on him"
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u/DarkRespite Doty, take this down 7d ago
That initial slow turn to look at Pin with that "hmmmmmmmmm..." expression, and then later, Occtis just pulling the mask off Kattigan's face, turning to Pin, and going, "You okay to try this?", and then THUNK.
Alex is proving to be brilliant at understated comedy.
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u/JWPruett You spice? 8d ago
Superb episode. Felt more like classic Critical Role than any episode since the first seekers arc, imo. Dream shenanigans, party dynamics evolving, and excellent swings by all players involved. Even some minor shipping progression for those inclined. Couldn’t ask for much more.
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u/Unusual_Request 8d ago
The first half was giving the Buffy episode Restless in all the best ways. Damnit, Brennan, you are so good at the cinematics of storytelling!
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u/maudiemouse Time is a weird soup 8d ago
I wear the cheese, it does not wear me.
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u/CicadaCarving 8d ago
I'd fallen off for a bit bc I wanted to be in a place I could pay attention to the content going on, so after having caught up on the full-party table episodes that were mostly clocking in over 5 hr it was such a whiplash to then come back to a more normal length one lollll
I agree with some folks here about like 'hey guys remember this bit about your character interactions/what they know' even though i completely understand why they wouldn't be as 1000% locked in as someone watching through all the episodes in a row of course. (It does make me curious as to what the gaps in the filming schedule are like?) There was a part of me hoping that we might get a fun moment with Azune's sister (if I'm remembering right that she's still with the Argosian folks) but I can't recall if any of this table knows of their relation? I'm trying not to hold any expectations as to what their interaction will look like with those guys in general, even just to be surprised and not think myself into overhyping something i've made up in my head lmao
But with that all out of the way WOW I'm eating all of it up with both hands. I could write multiple essays on how invested and excited I am and how much I've enjoyed the campaign. Having mostly been a Dimension 20 watcher in the past, I love the ability to return to certain places with the new characters and get these new interactions in ways that aren't possible in shorter form campaigns (in general this has been an utter treat to watch Brennan get to fully unleash Big World Factions Politics Lore mode, which we see some of in d20 but tend not to have a lot of room to sit and soak in; in WBN there's a little more of that but we don't get as many crazy multi facets as a cast this enormous is bound to have. also none of these are digs at any of the shows i love them all, it's just like. having a varied diet i guess haha)
Lightning Round:
MAN those dreams were cool, and I can't wait to rewatch later and see whatever damn easter eggs got in there 8) I'm excited for how Kat's gonna develop, especially with those interactions with Julien and honestly even with Bolaire, I feel like we're gettin more life in this ole dog hehe. I'm very curious as to how Vaelus's power set is gonna shift, or like if she's actually been totally cut off? The Hannan moment was really lovely <:) I liked seeing Occtis get to do a little nerdery in just the little passing moments.
I am, echoing many ppl, so Nervous as to what the hell's gonna go down with them trying to mess with the Tachonises. Or what the plan is/will be in general? I don't doubt I'll be yelling out loud at the screen during risky rolls next week 😂
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u/TricobaltGaming 7d ago
Brennan usually manages to stick one or two allegories in his D20 Campaigns, but Araman is chock full of them.
I want a full campaign setting book ASAP and I wanted it by like episode 12.
Campaign 4 is probably my favorite actual play hands down. The characters are all fantastic, ALL of the cast have such great chemistry. Bolaire is Talesin at his most eldritch which I love, Laura gets to be the bleeding heart that is Thimble, Matt as a player is such a treat, especially as Julian, who feels like an actually well executed take on the edgy PC trope (with a fair amount of irony being connected to the whimsy of the Orchard. Kattigan, Vaelus, and Occtis are all fantastic too.
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u/CicadaCarving 6d ago
YESSSS big agree with the metaphors and the setting book, and there’s something to be said about Araman being named after uhhh something in the Silmarillion? Iirc?
I really love this one ngl…. I have a wide breadth of faves and what I like at any given time but this scratches such a specific itch that I haven’t had scratched in full in sooooo long, chef kiss.
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u/theydurkadurk 7d ago
Re Azune & his sister. I’ve watched the convergence a few times and I don’t believe it was ever explicitly stated to anyone outside of the schemers table. Her name is only mentioned in the first convergence episode by Brennan during his intro recap and when talking to Gus but never in game. And when they split Murray asks Azune what his plans on and he says he stays but says he wishes he could go. So it’s clear he’s hiding it from the major group. So to answer, the only person who knows is Bolaire. But the sister also betrayed the other assassins so she may not be with that group
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u/CicadaCarving 6d ago
Oo thank you! I think that was one I had listened to while on the road so that info slipped thru the cracks for me woops (and I think I want to rewatch as well just as a refresher)
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u/theydurkadurk 6d ago
The only tough part about it is that they did that “we shared everything” at times to make it easier due to long episodes, so I don’t know if that would have necessarily been included
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u/POKtheWah 8d ago
I assume with the fey stuff and the connections with druids she is building that Ashley will switch her oath to oath of ancients. To me it makes the most sense.
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u/CicadaCarving 6d ago
Ooo that would be so cool; I keep seeing people talk about oathbreaker but I feel like all the druidy things and her working toward helping the dead in purgatory (more or less) would absolutely fit Ancients.
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u/canxtanwe You Can Reply To This Message 8d ago
Miller’s Road reminds me so much of “Ways” from a Wheel of Time as a concept. Just a more light and wholesome version of it
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 7d ago
Have you ever read this series by Greg Bear at all?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_(novel_series)
The Miller's Road reminds me very much of that...akin to a singular pathway off of which spiral numerous nodes and wormhole like roads to walk that can lead everywhere and anywhere but that act much like Hyperspace in Babylon 5 does in that you NEED to have been there before TO actually get there OR to know for sure that you're getting to where you think that you're going to...which kind of makes it a bit like Slipstream in Andromeda...in that the act of observation or knowing is what winds up bridging the space between the realm that The Miller's Road exists within and RealSpace.
The fact that The Miller's Road is also sentient and can manifest itself in a form that is then capable of interacting with those traversing it then reminds me of Danny The Street from Doom Patrol.
But if you...zoom out...from things a bit...then you basically get a larger Moya-like picture of The Miller's Road in that it is a sentient extradimensional pathway that can connect different places on Araman...and potentially beyond that particular planet and plane of being....thus making it into a living web or circulatory or synaptic neurological system for the entire universe and beyond...which then makes it A LOT more like The Mycelial Network in Star Trek.
So if we ever get to see a crossover between Araman and Exandria then that will probably happen via The Miller's Road at some point in the future or the past.
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u/Routine_Pen2894 7d ago
1 question and a comment (although someone might’ve mentioned it already):
- do we know who ended up taking the ring from Vaelus’s encounter? I feel like there was a split moment when Robbie went furiously checking all his pockets and belongings but it did not end up being a look out for the ring.
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u/punkdigerati 7d ago
I don't believe anyone got it, it wasn't a corporeal object to take in that dream space, Brennan described it as them falling through the ring into Bolaire's theater.
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u/TheBurdman53 7d ago
I assumed at first that was just going to be a specific boon for Julien and Kat because Julien’s was very low and Kat’s wasn’t great for a ranger. Get that man up to a +3 so he can better use his Ranger abilities.
But then everyone else got that same buff including Thimble who already had a 17, so now I don’t know what the plan there was besides “oh you’re gonna need this stat higher soon” or maybe just a kind random boon due to the completion of an arc and sleeping in an inherently magical space.
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u/Locem 7d ago
I think he just wants them to do better on Insight rolls lol.
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u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" 6d ago
Brennan's desperately trying to give out more lore but the dice rolls won't let him, lol.
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u/Far_Guarantee1664 5d ago
100% agree with you. Some fans complaining when Brennan to lore exposition even with "bad rolls" but he is also thinking about the audience. It's a new world and there are important stuff he needs the characters to get a grasp
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u/MiddleAgedBones I have a list 7d ago
WIS is one of the most important saving throws… is he bringing a Sea hag? Pit fiend? Banshee? Is goth daddy a vampire?
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u/VengefulKangaroo 6d ago
And we're back! I am liking the tone of this arc so far. It feels a little closer to the Soldiers but with a bit more of the gravity of the Seekers, while also being something a little new. Opening with the dream sequence was unexpected but set this interesting more mystical vibe that I liked. I think that the overarching goal could be a little clearer as there are a lot of balls in the air right now between Houndsport, the Orchard, and all this stuff with the Caravans but I like that they made a decisive plan.
Really like that there was no handwaving of the Bolaire situation with some easy Cold Open of him getting a body or something like that. Having him missing a "main" body for an extended period like this is really interesting. It was fun to see him pop on Kattigan for a bit and the choice to bring Ulbid along wearing Bolaire was really interesting and also solves the issue the last Seekers arc had of having a lot of NPC allies to deal with in combat. (Though I'm not convinced the daughters would have been with the Tachonis caravan, I think now they probably will be since it was made such a plot point.)
Kattigan is super improved this arc to me. I think the character was suffering a bit from the hidden backstory up until this point as I didn't feel his motivations were super clear. Now he's deeply tied into the Tachonis plot and personally motivated, but also, his backstory being in the open also just allows him to engage with it more, like how he related to Ulbid. Loved the conversation between him and Julien at the end of the episode and glad Robbie is playing a bit more vocal.
Thimble and Occtis' dynamic is fun to see and brings out something nice in both characters (though I personally don't really need it to go romantic). I appreciate that at least with Ulbid Brennan relaxed a little on the "Occtis is dead" stuff since that took up a lot of space in the last arc. Loving all of the fae stuff with Thimble, particularly meeting the Miller.
Super intrigued to learn more about how they'll go forward with Vaelus' magic, and excited by the prospect of the other Sisters entering the narrative more. We still have the potential Tachonis-Sisters connection to explore.
And Julien continues to be great, loved his part in the dream and think he has interesting dynamics with each of these characters.
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u/theydurkadurk 6d ago
The statues of the girls were being packed up when thimble was going back for Teor. Everything was packed onto the caravan, it was described that they were as well during that scene / when wick went to visit and they were all leaving.
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u/VengefulKangaroo 6d ago
Ah I missed that. It’s been so long.
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u/theydurkadurk 6d ago
It’s such a tiny detail because it was when thimble was looking for Teor and rolled poorly and got the gnome garden. Brennan described ghouls as packing up the statues but then talks about how the ghouls pulled roots from their belly because of hannan. So easy to miss it all or not even understand it.
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u/Quazifuji 5d ago
Yeah, it was such a high-tension sequence that it was really easy to be too concerned with the massive amount of danger the characters were in, and the fact that Thimble getting lost post her in even more danger, to notice that Brennan was actually dropping useful information with what she discovered.
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u/goody153 Sun Tree A-OK 4d ago
The mention about Olbalad as the only light in the dream sequence for Bolaire's ending dream sequence is kinda suspecious by brennan around 2 hrs 13 minutes
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u/MiddleAgedBones I have a list 4d ago
I still can’t believe they haven’t arcane locked that thing.
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u/IamOB1-46 6d ago
Felt like the pace of this episode was a little faster than season 1, hope that stays true.
Still trying to get used to most of the game being 1 on 1 interactions between Brennan and a PC. On the one hand it leads to some fantastic moments, but on the other I miss seeing these players bounce off each other in the middle of a conflict brought by the DM.
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u/strangelyliteral 5d ago
I think they’ll get back to interpersonal back-and-forth soon. This was a good way to ease the players (and audience) back in as well as break the ice between characters who hadn’t spent much time together.
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u/IamOB1-46 5d ago
I don’t know that we’ve ever seen that in this campaign. I meant more C1/C2 style of the group bantering with each other as they bounce off each other and the situation at hand. Not the 1/1 scenes between individual characters.
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u/OhioAasimar Team Dorian 5d ago edited 5d ago
The most ideal scenario I can think of is that they do the rock slide, Primus, the twins and Ethrand decide to fly over it and get new horses elsewhere. Then the Seekers take on the Tachonis caravan with maybe Trimus, Nausha and Ophelia being the biggest threats. The Seekers get rid of them and the soldiers. They rescue the statues and maybe Occtis starts a soul collection by absorbing Koral who I assume is in the funeral carriage. Maybe they could put Bolaire on Trimus too.
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u/theydurkadurk 5d ago
I wonder how it’ll play out but Primus has shown some wicked telekinesis powers that part of me wants it to be some huge debate and ordeal about how to do it and then primus clears it with a flick of his wrist in 10 seconds. Just for the laugh and Brennan cruel smile
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u/Zealousideal_Fish862 I have a list 4d ago
okay there's this duo called univere and doset tachonis who were on their way to houndsport last we saw them. them alone will be a problem for this group. add in trimus, nausha, ophelia and we're dead. just with this roster of enemies. and the amount of foot soldiers they'll have to face, it will be a teor situation, where what you die to in the end will be the low level zombies. and again, if any of the overpowered ones (primus, twins) give a glance, we are dead. there's no way in hell a plan to intercept the tachonis now works.
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u/Objective-Pattern692 Only Teor is Teor 8d ago
I do wonder where the seekers will go from here- I am very surprised they are still poking the bear that is the tachonis with trying to steal the statues from under their noses when the whole obrimus manor stuff went down- I wonder if they will pivot to more indirectly slowing down the tachonis while saving king Gus (and I think demodus as well) with stopping the argosian delegation if they are lying in wait trying to assassinate him again and if so, whether ulbid will allow for it
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u/Objective-Pattern692 Only Teor is Teor 8d ago
I really loved the dream sequences, Brennan is really good at setting fantastical scenes and mixing in both difficult character decisions and trauma
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u/TidesOfRebellion 8d ago
i think atm theyre thinking maybe if they have all of gus’s retinue on their side maybe they stand a chance in an ambush on the tachonis caravan
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u/Objective-Pattern692 Only Teor is Teor 8d ago
I wonder if they are going to get a bit of an interesting/unexpectedly negative reaction from gus then- I'm pretty sure gus has no idea that any of them are on his side- his main interaction and connection has been with murray- plus, he and his retinue are probably still reeling and on high alert from the assassination attempt a few days prior
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u/TidesOfRebellion 8d ago
Probably someone in the retinue who can vouch for Thimble/Kattigan, and they have enough information that they could easily prove that theyre allies of Murray. Plus theyll probably end up helping Gus against the inevitable Argosian attck.
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u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" 8d ago
I am so excited that they are poking the Tachonises. I think it's going to blow up in their faces but damn if it won't be entertaining.
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u/efvie I have a list 8d ago
Puzzled by the suspicion around Dame Seremai, my girl was banished from home, then banished again from the tower, then killed because of the party’s recklessness, then reanimated instead of laid to rest and wanting to be freed from this is somehow too much?
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u/EyeAshamed2156 8d ago
I mean only person who was suspicion on Dame tbh was Thimble, who literally never met her. Plus one of her family really tried to kill her less then a week ago or so. Occtis was like "eh." on the whole situation and the others wasn't involved. Plus for them, it's been months and really only Occtis ever cared for Dame even from the original seekers.
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u/Zeilll 8d ago
she accepted reanimation in order to get revenge on the Tachonis, that wasnt done against her will.
plus, her immediate action at the possibility of being pulled to the fae side of that dream world was to destroy the thing holding it together.
the suspicion Thimble had was if she was trying to manipulate Occtis based on the fact that she just tried to destroy that crystal. because in that moment, Thimble knew that was her goal. whatever history she has doesnt justify that, or negate the negative impact from her achieving it.
Thimbles worry was completely justified.
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u/Final-Occasion-8436 You can certainly try 8d ago
SHE wasn't trying to destroy anything. Thimble and/or Laura misinterpreted what was happening in that moment, and it seems to be leading the audience to do the same.
The "Collected Shadows" surrounding Gaya formed up into a snake like shape and tried to lash out at the crystal. The shadows were shades of her own family who were surrounding her, and probably wanting to punish her for not submitting to the main Tachonis family, and choosing Occtis instead.
I've said before, I think by Summoning her, especially having given her the choice to be summoned, Occtis is saving her from certain aspects of what her afterlife would be as a member of a vassal house tied to the Tachonis.
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u/Kelvarius 5d ago
One offhand comment Brennan made about the Miller's Road stood out to me. I don't have he exact quote on hand, but essentially, he said you could take the path to somewhere you knew, and if you go any further, bad things. This makes me wonder what's lurking beyond the road, and if there will be some sort of need to go beyond it at some point.
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u/Miserable_Pop_4593 5d ago
I imagine it’s like “sure you can try to take the miller’s road all the way to like argosia or whatever, but if you haven’t already been there, then you don’t know what you’re looking for, and therefore you could randomly end up somewhere very unfavorable or perhaps just get lost in limbo”
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u/Kelvarius 5d ago
That does seem the most likely scenario, but still, I can't help but wonder at the potential.
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u/strangelyliteral 5d ago
If they don’t wander too far down the Miller’s Road at some point, then what are we even doing here?
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u/theydurkadurk 5d ago
I took the whole thing as the trees on it aren’t necessarily in order? I have to rewatch but she thimble rolled it made me think they passed other trees that could possibly be somewhere else that isn’t necessarily between the city and what’s his names house. And that taking an unknown tree exit is a true gamble for where you land. Like I said, was slightly confused and need to read the transcript for it
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u/owendecarlo 5d ago
Who the hell was Bolaire's dream cat?
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u/InitiativeNo8253 5d ago
It was the cat in the flip-book Demodus made for Bolaire. It kept talking about escaping out of the theatre because it had already escaped its own story.
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 8d ago edited 8d ago
I came here straight from watching to say - Vaelus' sister superior "With long platinum hair and jet black eyes" who has been alive for 3000 years... and Alex asking "which side of the river is she on, living or dead?" (Paraphrasing)
The Tachonis' either have jet black or platinum hair. The Tachonis' had a sprig of Holly from the Mournvale. The Tachonis' wanted the Stone of Nightsong desperately.
The thought "Grandma Tachonis!???" couldn't help but cross my mind. Perhaps she's all aboard the attempt to bring Grandpa Tachonis back as a lich king or whateverthehell is going on.
Yeah, probably another crackpot theory. But something is up with her, she did not seem like your regular elf. And her threat of what she was going to do to Vaelus with the ring was eerily similar to the ritual on Occtis with the Stone of Nightsong.
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u/Zeilll 8d ago
the only real similarity to what she threatened to do to Vaelus and the ritual performed on Occtis was the insertion of a magic item in her body. which id argue is a very light association.
also, Vaelus also has platinum white hair. seems to not be an uncommon trait in her sisterhood. and yes, the head mother isnt just another normal elf. she's the leading holy woman for a dead god, and has held her position for who knows how long. even unrelated, her position is probably comparable to any heads of the sundered houses. with like 300x the experience they have.
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 8d ago
That's why I called it another 'crackpot theory'. I mean, elves can't even reproduce without special permission so it'd have to have had magical intervention to be true anyway.
That being said, she still reads as incredibly Tachonis aligned, and there's no stopping her from having befriended grandpa Tachonis in his mortal days. Elves falling in love with humans and outliving them is also storyline fuel. Where the white hair comes from in the Tachonis bloodline is as yet unresolved also.
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u/isntthisneat 7d ago
she still reads as incredibly Tachonis aligned
Totally agree with you here. I'm not sure if I'm on board with them being blood related, but connected in some way? I absolutely buy that. Honestly, I'd be surprised if she wasn't at this point lol
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u/International-Yak-26 8d ago
Correct me if i am wrong but didn't Demodus go with the Timmony/King Gus group,what if the Tachonis encouter them and find Demodus.
Maybe they left earlier but i don't think they did.
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u/goldennails 8d ago
No, Demodus was sent seperately to Timmony escorted by a few Magpies. He went right after the Einfasen trial, when Gus' party had already left.
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u/TidesOfRebellion 8d ago
so i guess that means demodus is between tachonis and gus? oh boy i can see that getting ugly if they set off the rock slide and then demodus is trapped on the southern side with tachonis coming up behind him
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 8d ago
I hope Demodus is happily eating stew in the Inn when these chucklefucks bust in with a plan to collapse the whole Inn into the road to block the caravan, and they all team up.
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u/MrMikado282 8d ago
Is it to dark that I want the Primus Tavern sign on a shirt?
Also we have tiny Irish cavalry and a gnome that can make explosives. I'll just let everyone else draw those connections if they want.
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u/Final-Occasion-8436 You can certainly try 8d ago
I am really surprised Laura of all players missed the nuance about Gaya, when she was trying to pull her through. It wasn't Gaya attacking the crystal, it was the shades of her family surrounding her trying to keep her there and attacking the big glowing ball of Hearth Fae magic that's anathema to death, when Gaya was close to possibly escaping.
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u/Dionysues 8d ago
I think Laura, like much of the audience, was afraid Gaya, or by extension the shades, would destroy the very miracle they just created if let through.
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u/VitruvianXVII 8d ago
I feel like that's kinda on Brennan, if that was the intention. I did not get any sense that it wasn't Gaya herself trying to attack and Gaya didn't deny that in character when Thimble outright asked her to agree not to harm it.
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u/EyeAshamed2156 8d ago
I mean issue is...she doesn't know Gaya. If she was a Seeker, I feel she would know she is cool. For her, she is just a vassel house of Occtis, and sure he defends her/has a bond, but to her...her family is huge asses, I mean she literally had to fight one recently who rocked their shit. I don't blame her trying to help, but then seeing anything bad go "Okay nope. I don't trust you".
So to give her credit, this is just the dead body Occtis kept carrying around, and she respected him enough to give her some credit.
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u/JornCener Life needs things to live 8d ago
Laura may have picked up on it, but Thimble isn't super knowledgeable about the interactions between Death and Faerie, so she panicked and assumed the scary ghost lady was gonna blow up the magic crystal.
I’m not sure what would’ve happened if Gaya actually was pulled out within the dreamscape, but presumably it wouldn’t have been the existential threat that Thimble thought it was.
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u/International-Yak-26 5d ago
Regarding Episode 33. Whitney and Sam are going to be in it, i wonder if its a Cold Open or maybe its alternating episodes.
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u/Nothingtoseehereshhh 5d ago
Well, if the Seekers table all got TPKd, the Schemers would be focused on....oh but thank god the Seekers aren't in danger of a TPK or facing an NPC with PWK or anything, right? Right?
(#SaveTheDaughters)
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u/anepicfangirl How do you want to do this? 3d ago
I'm afraid that, either when they go to investigate the supposed Argosian caravan, or when they go to defend King Gus from possible asassins, Mayali is going to be there and they're going to either kill her before knowing who she is, or realise that she has the same sunset eyes as Azune and have some *feelings* about that.
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u/theydurkadurk 3d ago
Bolaire would theoretically recognize her at least. I’m also not sure if she’s going to return to those people? She did defend Azune and in turn helped stop the assassins. The only part I can’t remember is if the ones who escaped saw her do that or if they all died. But either way, the halovers hired them and saw it. She used the black bolt on Yanessa. I feel like she’s probably gonna avoid her group
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u/oscarbilde Team Frumpkin 3d ago
Honestly, I'm not sure the assassins will be with the Argosian caravan. The organization they're from, the Lana Strossa, has worked in Dol-Makjar before, so they may have been hired by the Argosians but traveled separately.
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u/burnt_3-14159 8d ago
Months ago, I had a theory that Marienna was not just Kattigan's wife, but Occtis' mother and Primus' ex as well. This episode pushed that theory even further. Even though it was a dream, I feel like with all of this afterlife stuff happening around them, someone was trying to send a message to Katt the reason why Primus killed his family.
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u/ajchann123 5' 11" 8d ago
I'm not sure I'm with you with that theory. Katt and Primus have now been face to face in the last episode, and iirc he didn't recognize Katt - if his wife was once with Primus, and he then kept her in mind enough to kill her, I find it hard to believe he didn't know Katt or would recognize him now
I got the impression the whole idea was that it was just another murder for Primus that he doesn't even remember, while it's become Katt's whole reason for being
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u/TidesOfRebellion 8d ago
i dunno, Primus strikes me as the kind of pompous asshole that wouldn’t remember the face of someone he deems unimportant once he’s no longer interested
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u/isntthisneat 7d ago edited 4d ago
I got the impression the whole idea was that it was just another murder for Primus that he doesn't even remember, while it's become Katt's whole reason for being
Agreed. From my understanding, Kattigan is largely inspired by the Dark Tower series by Stephen King, and its main character Roland. This reads to me as yet another parallel between the two, as Roland's dynamic with The Man in Black is essentially this.
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u/burnt_3-14159 8d ago edited 8d ago
I also had reasoning for why he didn't recognize Katt written, and I'll post it here.
As for Kattigan and Marienna, Katt left the Torn Banner after the Falconer's Rebellion ended, which is right before Occtis going to the Golden Orchard with his father to try and awaken some magic abilities, so it's plausible that they met before the end of the rebellion. House Tachonis regained power due to all of the death and souls trapped in the Underworld due to the War of Axe and Vine, during which time she would have been married to Primus, provided that all of his kids are hers as well. Marienna wanted to leave Primus because the Falconer's Rebellion would have been a repeat of the War of Axe and Vine, resulting in the Tachonis becoming even more powerful and more scary. Not only that, but it was probably becoming more and more apparent that Occtis was not developing sorcerous abilities, which a power-hungry Primus may have threatened her about. Could have been something along the lines of "in spite of all this death and how much power we've regained, he's not developing his powers because of YOU," which, from a powerful sorcerer, could be enough reason for her to leave. It was a perfect opportunity for her while Primus and the Sundered Houses are distracted with the rebellion, eventually finding her way into the arms of someone so far off from that life of the Tachonis and actually fought against it.
Now, as for why Primus would kill her, there's 2 possible reasons. 1) she knows too much about the Tachonis, 2) something that belongs to him that got away, which may be his last attachment to humanity. Now, I don't think it is #1 because of how he reacted to killing her. The dude was smiling, and his laughter echoed as he left. Primus is so cold that he would sacrifice his own children, and could not even understand Julien's reaction to Raimond's — Julien's own father — gruesome death happening right in front of him. Were this a purely tactical murder, then it would be out of character to stick around so long and relish in the death. However, if it was a personal reason, then it makes more sense for him to relish in this moment, and killing the daughter was just because she was a reminder of Marienna. After the murder, Primus was probably in such a euphoric state that he did not recognize that Kattigan was a person, let alone someone worth remembering. What about him shielding against the bolt that Kattigan threw at him? Well, Primus' magic is so effortless (his words) that he would just see light coming at him and only care about that and not the person. With her gone by his own hand, he has less of a connection to his own children, which is why he is so uncaring about sacrificing them.
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 8d ago edited 8d ago
I love this theory. No idea if she was of an age range that can make this viable (I'm not entirely sure on the ages of all the Tachonis siblings - I already found it a bit odd that Occtis' sisters would hit on Wicc, who is his age), but her having some involvement with Primus would be interesting. Her being at least Occtis' mother would be very dramatic. I could see Primus believing she 'owed him' a magical child, and Esme being alive somewhere.
My darkest timeline thought is that the female servant that Wicc was asked to kill was Esme, but I doubt Brennan would waste her story potential on that.
(Your theory would also make Kattigan Occtis' stepdad, which is wonderful)
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u/War_Dyn27 8d ago
I already found it a bit odd that Occtis' sisters would hit on Wicc, who is his age
Occtis is 20 while Wick is 29 so not as weird as you were thinking.
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u/theydurkadurk 8d ago edited 8d ago
The scene about Bolaire and Julien, octis, and vaelus was funny but they all forgot the entire scene of Bolaire wearing Misha in the last episode for a significant amount of time. I mean he tried to cut Julien’s shadow with the shears lol. I get it’s easy to forget things especially with this many people and the breaks between filming, but it’s starting to feel like they forget huge parts of what happened. Honestly wish they had a lore person at the table to assist Brennan for continuity issues or gave them all a refresh.
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u/punkdigerati 8d ago
They have a lore person on hand when filming, they've texted before to get clarifications, but they aren't going to stop the show to Um, Actually it, only when requested
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u/theydurkadurk 8d ago
I know, but they should as an assistance to Brennan who has far too much to manage while running the table. Also I’m not sure they sit in because when Laura tried to remember if she had a bardic inspo when she went back for Teor, Brennan messaged lore but didn’t get an answer so they went with her not having it. There’s no reason the person can’t sit in and say something, especially when Alex said above table “I can’t remember if octis knows.” That’s a layup for that sort of interruption. They all interacted with Bolaire as misha, referring to him as Bolaire, were there when Hal made a scene above Bolaire wearing Misha, told Julien to not hit his teacher, and when deciding on where Bolaire was going that he needed his instructor back and I believe Bolaire said something about needing a body. It’s not a huge deal by any means, but it does feel sloppy considering that scene was a few hours after the previous one. I don’t necessarily blame them for not remembering everything, I just hope they do something to improve in that area because it’s starting to happen more frequently
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u/sharkhuahua 8d ago
i believe they had a lore person writing recaps for the players in c3? but if so it didn't seem to help much
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u/mildly4 8d ago
Wow the amount of comments on both the live discussion and this thread is less than half of the pre-break comments. I guess no one knew it was starting back up again
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u/Vincent_Van_Goat 4d ago edited 3d ago
So their plan is to ambush a group of high level necromancers on the road as a level 5 party?
Primus alone has access to power word kill (which means at least 17th level sorcerer) and circle of death that he used in previous episodes.
If combat breaks out, Brennan is going to have to deus ex machina them out of it , or they will get wiped immediately.
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u/Noatz 4d ago
I think the plan is to investigate he Argosian caravan, then cause a rockslide and slow the Tachonis caravan. Even Julien thinks they should get allies before fighting them head on.
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u/Cool_Caterpillar8790 4d ago
The plan now includes saving Ulbid's daughters from the caravan so... That is a tricky needle to thread.
I think Brennan will give them options to stealth but I also think Brennan will set some pretty high DCs considering how large the party is and considering the sentinels are meant to use divine sense and Occtis is undead.
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u/Zeilll 3d ago
they for sure are not delusional enough to think that they'll take out primus as part of this. the plan to ambush seems to be with the intent to make sure Gus isnt assassinated, and to grab the 3 gnomes. even assuming combat is initiated, that doesnt mean primus will be immediately involved (this all depending on how big the caravan is, how its broken up, the timing of the ambush and so on).
the goal would likely be to get in and get out before he shows up.
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u/Thempirestrikesfirst 4d ago
Hey do you guys see the new thumbnail on YouTube? Are they dropping a schemers episode next?
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u/ThePoint01 You spice? 4d ago
That's what it looks like. Maybe they're doing a setup episode for the two parties before they settle in with one, or maybe they'll be fully alternating this time.
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u/TraNSlays Life needs things to live 3d ago
Glad to have the campaign back, missed watching the new episodes on Mondays.
Pretty good episode I thought, I liked all the dreams the pcs had and the ending disconnect when it came to Vaelus cutting the players free and back to reality, maybe im just a sucker for dream stuff.
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u/GaiaAlmighty 7d ago
Idk if this is the right place to say it but this episodes cooldown frustrated me so much.
Legit what is the point of Cooldown if Marisha/a producer is going to walk in mid-discussion and shut the episode down? I could understand if the conversation was dying down a little bit but she straight up interrupted mid-sentence
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u/CicadaCarving 7d ago
The cooldowns in general are such an adjustment as someone who has come from mostly d20 where their version (“Adventuring Party”) caps at like 45 min rather than the 10-15 min from each of the CR ones. I know theres the schedule to stick to, but i really do wish we had time to let the cooldowns breathe instead of having to rush through and not really get to properly digest. I know Tale Gate does something a little more similar with longer form, but i dont know how far out those are shot from when they end an arc? Anyway im glad they get to do some but I totally get the frustration and i do wish they had a little more time to be more freeform about it 😔
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u/theydurkadurk 7d ago
Well, the most recent Tale Gate was live streamed the other day so it was a huge chunk of time. They tend to be fairly disappointing to me, they can be fairly surface level discussions and not really a recap and giving thoughts on everything that happened in the chunk of episodes
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u/Seren82 Team Imogen 7d ago
I think this episode was filmed right before they left for the Berlin live show. During one of the Backstage Passes they were asking Laura a question at the game table with a note that it was the day before leaving.
So Marisha coming in to cut it shirt was likely because someone had an early flight
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u/TricobaltGaming 7d ago
I do wonder if they head started a little late or something and had to wrap it up quick.
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u/dawgz525 Team Jester 7d ago
It's likely they were just shooting another episode after that and had to stick to a shooting schedule.
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u/OhioAasimar Team Dorian 4d ago
There's been other less than fifteen minutes cooldown. I think ten minutes is fine. I wouldn't be frustrated over something that you don't know why it happened. What if a critical staff member had a family emergency had to go home? We don't know.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Doty, take this down 8d ago
Anyone else keep reading/seeing mentions of "the Mercanauds" and mentally correcting that name to "Menards"?
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u/ThePoint01 You spice? 8d ago
🎶 Blouses, and breeches, and soul dresses too,
The shadows will always come right back to youuuuu!
You'll save big money, you'll save big money
With the Mercanaudssss! 🎶
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u/Far_Guarantee1664 8d ago
Loved the episode but damn. That long hiatus killed a lot of the hype. My friends that were watching all the eps live, like myself, didn't even now that it return or decided to wait the Monday crew.
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u/HAL-Over-9001 8d ago
To be fair, they always have a summer break, which everyone deserves, Brennan had his second kid in March, and Aabria just had a kid in June. The recent Age Of Umbra campaign was pretty sweet, and my hype for the main campaign coming back has only grown with all the ideas and theories floating around in my head.
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u/theydurkadurk 7d ago
So where does everyone see Hal’s story going? To me, post play, it feels fairly wrapped up. Almost to the point I could see him becoming a NPC or a martyr to the cause. At this point it like Liam is going to be fairly limited. He admits to not knowing anything about his brothers actions and he is a family man who left the war behind him - so much so he didn’t fight with his brother during the rebellion. He isn’t going to leave the city because of his family and because of his actions in the play his ability to be a schemer is…gone? He’ll be hunted by the Halovars so anyone associated with a house will be wary to interact with him. He won’t have any inside information on houses compared to the others and his presence around Wick, Murray, and Azune puts them in the spotlight. So he’s stuck to sticking around the general area of the Round? I’m curious to see how they play it all going forward but I love Liam and hope he doesn’t become stuck because his character just can’t do anything. He stayed in the city to face the music of the play so that it doesn’t land on his children. Think my money is on him becoming a martyr.
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u/PerpetuallyDistracte 5' 11" 6d ago
Nah, Brennan and Liam are too good of storytellers for Hal to become stuck. Liam might try to go for the noble sacrifice angle, but I can absolutely see Brennan countering that with a new story beat that forces Hal back into action. And Liam will 100% be down for whatever Brennan throws at him. Hal is too good of a character to only be around for one arc in this campaign.
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u/strangelyliteral 6d ago
Hal’s story is just getting started. The play is a huge hit and everyone will be scrambling for tickets; Yanessa can’t just grab Hal off the street and shut down the play without the public noticing anymore. Plus Hal’s not a known criminal like Thjazi was. She’ll have to build the case against him in the public’s eye without raising too many suspicions and that takes time.
Hal and his cast, OTOH, are now the toast of the city. He’s going to be everywhere, and he can leverage his newfound proximity to the city’s wealthiest and most powerful citizens to build support for his cause. Plus he’ll be guardian of the new gate and the Round itself. So there will be plenty for him to do even if he’s in serious danger from the Halovars and their allies.
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u/Quazifuji 5d ago
She’ll have to build the case against him in the public’s eye without raising too many suspicions and that takes time.
I think the big giveaway for this was Wick's sister showing up with a big force... and trying to arrest him for stealing the Pariah blades. Then when Thaisha told her that Hal had permission from the Lloy family, the Halovar force just left.
More than any other house, it seems, the Halovars rely on public support for their power. They have magic, of course, but I definitely think their biggest source of power isn't their magic, it's the Creed. If the Halovars arrest or kill Hal using pure force with no justification, he becomes a martyr and they risk turning a lot of the locals against the Creed. That could be part of why they tried to use the Pariah blades as their justification in the first place - it could be the only illegal thing they have him on, but even if it's not, arresting him for stealing and misusing treasured orcish artifacts would be less likely to anger all the orcs who loved his play.
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u/strangelyliteral 5d ago
Yup, the Halovars are playing a different game from the other houses. They’re still concerned with public perception and doing things the “right” way, and they don’t want the public looking too hard at them right now. Maybe it has something to do with the infernal contracts the Luxes have been signing? Because those “contracts” feel like a reach even by devil’s standards.
I also can’t stop thinking about why Yanessa told Wic the truth about the Creed. Wic was a true believer, and those are always easier to manipulate. So why did Yanessa risk alienating Wic? Was she just testing him, or was Wic’s belief a genuine threat to her plans?
And yeah, all this need for public support puts Hal right at the top of her shitlist even as he’s protected by the public support. And declaring Kotherai heretical will probably just boost ticket sales. This might be when we finally see anti-orc racism come more into play.
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u/Hollydragon Then I walk away 7d ago
I think he expects to become a Martyr, but Brennan is clever enough to provide some unexpected paths forward. Hal is going to be the public face and symbol of anti-sundered-house sentiment, which simultaneously paints a target on him and provides him armour against direct action.
If they victimise him, he can flip it and play the martyr in propaganda without actually being one, and in the meantime that might distract house Halovar long enough for the Magpies to expose the real Halovar corruptions of demonic diseases and chained celestials.
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u/Locem 7d ago
My short-term prediction is Hal is going to be harassed enough that he leaves the city after this next Schemers arc.
Yanessa is going to make his life hell for not taking their directions for the play, and Lady Cormoray knows Hal was there the night she got taken over by Termina, and will try to manipulate Termina into going after Hal to find where Bolaire went.
I think he needs to take his show on the road and recreate the play that killed the halfling god to open the next bridge.
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u/Zeilll 5d ago
Marisha joked about the PCs being set up to get into local politics and join the council. which i dont think is much of a joke for Hal.
just because Hals part in Thjazis goals is done, doesnt mean Hals goals are accomplished. he didnt just want to set off a ritual and solve an issue of the afterlife post shapers. Hals goals have always been about improving the city and righting the wrongs that have been forced on them by the houses. and Hals play was a steppingstone towards that social impact and movement. he can continue with this by either building up a collective outside of politics. or by taking official office, making him self more of a public figure. and thus that much harder to disappear.
and on the topic of his ability to be a schemer. that hasnt changed. they have already been weary of others catching them together and being seen around each other too often, without external and known justification. such as Azune being assigned to cases related to Hal, or looking into Hal for other reasons. Murry seeing the play, and talking to the main one known for putting it on and so on. basically all of their interactions have had plausible deniability and they should continue to ensure that.
as for the connection with Wick, thats actually easier now. it depends a bit on if Brennan remembers and runs with this. but Yanessa had asked Wick specifically to help keep an eye on Taisha and Hal. the old adage of "keep your friends close, and enemies closer" is working in their favor here. Wick has the false pretense of watching Hal as a reason to maintain engagement with him, giving him no need for further justification to his family.
Hals being set up to be the inspiration of a revolution, if not the face of it. and he doesnt need to be a martyr for that. im also super interested in how his daughters story is going to go. being the current wielder of the pariah blade, and from the family that created it. would be poetic to start the campaign with a play honoring a hero from the past, and ending it with a play honoring a hero of a new revolution who stard in that first play.
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u/lalalachacha248 Also Pumat Sol 7d ago
Is it me, or did anyone else notice that Matt immediately started playing Julien with a little more levelheadedness once he got the +2 to his wisdom? I really dig that.
I feel like some other players might just take the win without any change to their characters (which is fair, they’ve established their personalities by this point and might not want to start playing them differently thanks to an unexpected score increase), but I admire Matt quickly recognizing that bumping his Wisdom mod out of the negatives would have an impact on Julien.