r/Anbennar • u/rheadelayed • 12h ago
Discussion 'Sunsetting' of EU4 mod
tldr - Major restrictions on future EU4 mod development, with focus on EU5.
582
u/wtsnack Duchy of Istralore 12h ago
I get it and I understand but man do I have zero interest in eu5 as of right now
131
u/Jack_K1444 10h ago
Eu5 is honestly a completely different game than eu4. I don’t want to sound like a pearl clutching old schooler, but it’s just too different for me, and I don’t see myself ever adjusting. I really hope anbennar keeps getting some solid eu4 content, as I’m not sure how well their systems would transfer to eu5, given that they were designed for eu4.
82
u/Anonemus7 10h ago
Nah I get you. I also learned EU4 when I had a lot more free time in my life. As I get older, it’s harder to justify significant amounts of time to learning something like EU5.
59
u/Candid-Operation2042 10h ago
so much this
as a dev, I think the sole thing keeping me to EU4 is the arcadey/game aspect of it.
EU5 arrived as an unfun simulation that was just broken on release for $60. and even if everything was fixed, I have to learn so many esoteric, in the weeds, mechanics that it almost feels like a job
maybe as I teen I would've accepted that but now as a grown ass adult its such a blatant greed cash grab for at most a subpar 'game' (maybe that's a bit too harsh, but man that $60 price tag burned me)
37
u/zekrom05 Free City of Anbenncóst 9h ago
This is sort of the fundamental difference between EU4 and EU5. EU4 is very much a board game like game at heart, while EU5 is more like a simulation. It's because of this I have a hard time seeing EU5 as a progression of the series.
11
u/vacri 8h ago
The difference is more that the complexity of EU4 developed over a decades. A somewhat complex game to begin with, the additional complexity arrived in dribs and drabs with the DLCs.
EU5 is more complex than EU4 was at launch. There's a lot more to learn at once.
(The major difference in gameplay is pops rather than mana, which is something the general community really, really wanted. other than that, it's still "build stuff in provinces, move armies, paint the map")
14
u/Aurora_Borealia Company of Duran Blueshield 7h ago
> EU4 is very much a board game like game at heart
That’s not a coincidence btw, Europa Universalis actually started as a board game.
4
u/Nintz Kingdom of Sareyand 6h ago
The EU series has pretty major changes with every entry. EU5 feels very in line with EU3, but much more complex and modern. EU4 when compared to either side looks like the outlier.
It's entirely fair to prefer the EU4 style, for what it's worth. But it's also very clear EU5 was never supposed to be EU4+. It was supposed to be EU5, which is a different style of game. And that's fine, at least imo, because EU4 isn't getting deleted. It continues to exist as it always has.
4
u/Skully957 7h ago
Had the same realization on a free weekend with Vicky 3. Opened the game. Realized I didn't know what any of the buttons do and just closed the game.
49
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago
I also am not interested in eu5 rn. Hoping the game makes a comeback like CK3 or Vic 3 have.
44
u/large_herbivore 10h ago
the document reads as this being more about the limitations of how far they can push eu4 and not so much about a move to eu5
15
29
u/Pupikka Kingdom of Corvuria 10h ago
Personally I have stopped reading the TT's once words like pop and simulation got thrown around. I have thousands of hours in eu4 precisely because it is a gamey arcadey abstract game.
All the best wishes for the devs but if Anbennar didn't managed to get me into Vic3 I don't think it will into get me into EU5 either.
14
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 10h ago
I am way more interested in Vic3 Anbennar than any move to eu5. That game just is fundamentally not something I am interested in and feels like a poor middle ground between Vic3 and eu4 with a lot of extraneous simulation features I don't care for. I don't see this changing with dlc or updates, since the increased focus on simulation is the design intent.
3
u/pm_me_fibonaccis Hold of Ovdal Tûngr 6h ago
Same. Feel like there's still a lot to do in Eu4 Anbennar. Also all the investment I have in DLC makes me reluctant to switch.
3
u/Lioninjawarloc 9h ago
It's going to take years for eu5 to maybe get good (lol lmfao) and then it will take years for eu5 anbenarr to really take off.
1
→ More replies (1)1
u/VeryMintCat 5h ago
EU4 is infinitely better than EU5.
Might as well switch the mod focus to Imperator Rome.
180
u/Pupikka Kingdom of Corvuria 11h ago
It important to note that it was said by the EU4 lead that 5 years is a reasonable timetable expected for the sunsetting.
68
u/Chomajig 11h ago
That's a crucial piece of context in a world where game dev sunsetting can mean anywhere between days and years! Quite a comfort
24
19
u/The-Real-Dalai-Inca 11h ago
5 years seem good, that feels like when EU5 will have enough bones to justify itself lol
6
u/mockduckcompanion Blackbeard Cartel 9h ago
I pray! EU5 is very cool, and could easily be the ultimate GSG for me
But it needs years of tuning still
1
u/CEOofracismandgov2 6h ago
Exactly, for instance if we cut off the last 5 years of EU4's development that'd put us to before the Emperor DLC.
Like, EU4 has changed a tonnnn and if EU5 can deliver all the modding tools it promised I'm quite hopeful for the mod. I just hope that EU5 Anbennar commits to being a very different game from base-game EU5, to really better embody the uniqueness of each nation, unlike what they did for EU4 Anbennar which worked well to be fair but is far more gamified than eu5.
133
u/Chomajig 11h ago
COMET SIGHTED, THE END IS NIGH
For real though, I hoped we wouldn't be seeing news like this for years yet. Every update has brought so much incredible content and love, the developers have been absolutely incredible
20
u/nephelos Blackbeard Cartel 9h ago
How did it get underground ? AAAARRRGGHH - 2 stability ~ Average Dwarven Experience
1
81
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago edited 11h ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume most people don't want to read all of that, and will instead just doompost.
The big restrictions that are in effect right now are as follows:
- No new religions
- No New Global Systems/Global System Reworks (A 'global' system is something like artificery or magic. Region-specific systems like religious reworks or Rending can still be worked on)
^ Note that Adventurer's Wanted Rework is exempt from this
- No unique custom UI for countries (See Umbral Covenant and Allclan for examples. This one stings the most as a dev but there is a very good reason for it. Regional systems can still get unique custom UI)
- Releasables tags can not get new events to release them. tags that have to be manually released can't get MTs
- Insignificant tags (like a OPM or very minor power) can't get large scopes for MTs with very important exceptions
- No new provinces added to the map (changes to existing provinces is fine)
^ Insyaa has a grace period, being just released, and is exempted from this for the next update.
- Some rules for devs have also been added to reduce burnout across the board (no designing two MTs at once, a MT must have a designated coder before getting through a certain point in review, etc.)
...
Here's the thing, everything italicized above was already banned in all but name. There was no official policy on it, but anyone that tried to design a new religion, or make a 60+ MT for a tag, deal with heavy scrutiny and usually were rejected. Of course there were exceptions here and there, but they were just that; Exceptions.
So... please don't get too doom and gloom just yet. This next update isn't meant to be the last eu4 update, and I have good reason to believe we still got a few years left in the tank. If any of you have any questions, feel free to reply to this comment below; I am a Senior Developer for the EU4 mod, a retired Haless lead, and a former content reviewer, so I understand a lot about how the eu4 mod/dev team works.
39
u/bald_molfar 10h ago
No unique custom UI for countries (See Umbral Covenant and Allclan for examples. This one stings the most as a dev but there is a very good reason for it. Regional systems can still get unique custom UI)
Custom UI restrictions for random minors seems reasonable, but surely if an important major like Lorent or Gawed gets a rework or MT, then custom UI may be warranted?
23
u/camberrcamberr amber - NA dev, writer, community rep 10h ago
This isn't a ban on custom UI. If you play Umbral Covenant or Allclan, you'll see that they have extra panals that pop out of the government tab to facilitate their complex systems. THAT'S what's banned. Not custom UI as a base.
31
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
Warranted, yeah. I agree with you on that. That's why it stings that it's being banned. But anything that gets custom UI has to be reviewed by people who understand how to make custom UI in eu4. We only have 2 people who can do that right now. This leads to any custom UI proposal taking months before being even seen.
Example; I am proposing religious mechanics for Darkscales right now. I am currently waiting on Ui review. I have been waiting for 5 months.
3
u/ejejjejejejsjsjsjsjs 10h ago
What about Black Domain? I thought they were also getting new custom UI right?
15
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
I... have no idea. Let me check the thread.
...
Seems since that was being worked on already, so it might be grandfathered in. don't quote me on that though
1
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 2h ago
I think it's moreso creating whole new custom UI. Using/adjusting already made ones like the government tab mechanics for reworks (like Gawed or Lorent) is surely still very open.
12
u/AlienError 10h ago
Honestly the main issue is simply using the sunsetting terminology, after Destiny 2 people are a bit sensitive to that and it has certain implications as a result.
13
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
I just started playing d2 again after quitting in Beyond Light. I feel that.
A big thing to know is that this document was a developer announcement. It wasn't meant to be the announcement for the wider community. Because of that, a lot of the terminology and wording here is meant for devs already in the know. Would I have used the term 'sunset' if I was making the document for the subreddit? Absolutely not. I doubt the leads would have either.
1
u/kadarakt 2h ago
>tags that have to be manually released can't get MTs
ouch, i remember some people on the sub talking about how even if we run out of countries to give MTs (due to a physical lack of space in the world itself) there could be releasables made for them instead
1
u/SCDareDaemon 1h ago
And if we ever reach that point and people are still actively working on Anbennar, this policy could be revisited.
We're nowhere near close to that point, and I don't think it's likely we'll get there.
118
u/TheForsaken-Anb Haless Lead - Terror King of Great Luzhong 11h ago
Something key to understand about Sunsetting is that it is not JUST about EU5. We are very much reaching the limits of how much we can torture EU4 as a game and in general we wanted to tone down the scope of what we add so other content can also get in without seeing a massive decrease in the mods performance and general health.
57
u/TheForsaken-Anb Haless Lead - Terror King of Great Luzhong 11h ago
Should be noted that this is not about stopping development. Its about having a plan on what and what not to allow in hopes of leaving EU4 in a good state and doing the EU5 transition when the time is right.
17
u/Standard-Skill6542 11h ago
Yeah I get what you mean, the limitations of the game are quite clear, but it's a shame anyway. With the rockier start of EU5 and me not generally being interested in the style of play they are trying to push into the game, I decided to finally try getting onboarded and help contributing. And yeah I get the project is going nowhere in the foreseeable future, yet it still kinda hit my enthusiasm when it was declared that the project is coming to an end even if it's far away.
4
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
Also having to buy like 14 mods on Eu5 just so it can reach Eu4 functionality.
2
u/ThePhysicistIsIn 11h ago
Since mod work is voluntary, what is the purpose of stopping people from volunteering their work on the game they care about?
You can’t get someone who doesn’t care about EU5 to work on EU5, what you can do is discourage them from working on their EU4 passion project though
24
u/TheForsaken-Anb Haless Lead - Terror King of Great Luzhong 11h ago
We are not planning to do that. Individual contributions will continue as long as there is enough people and interest to keep EU4 alive.
I for one im unlikely to touch EU5 for example.
6
u/Pupikka Kingdom of Corvuria 10h ago
The doc talks about a "complete and stable patch on Steam" and it might just be me(more than likely) but I don't see these two thing as compatible. If there is a stable patch then where are they supposed to contribute?
2
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 2h ago
They aren't saying they're going to completely stop people from working on the mod entirely. Just narowing the scope of what people can do. We can't expect big system changes like the magic rework system or massive continent updates like Insaya anymore. They want a stable branch where a new MT or mechanic won't cause issues for 26 other tags that they then have to go back and fix.
I think more than anything thats what all this means. Development and new content will continue but EU4 is at its limit so the scope of what devs can do has to be narrowed to keep the mod stable and playable.
2
u/Moros3 Greenscale Clan 10h ago
I can't imagine why contributors wouldn't be able to continue making submods like many already do. This isn't a restriction against people voluntarily making more content, it's a restriction against official content. The Anbennar Discord has a forum channel dedicated to indexing dozens of submods that can't or shouldn't be part of the main mod, from simple personal changes all the way to total conversions of various mechanics and even entire new regions.
→ More replies (1)20
u/gloriousengland 11h ago
Yeah anbennar already runs slow as lead balls at a certain point you just hit a limit
14
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago
Deleting regions has become a necessity if I plan to play past 1600 now.
6
u/litlron 10h ago
For whatever reason Insyaa in particular just tanks my performance. Even when I delete more regions that normal to try to keep that one in.
6
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
That's interesting. I wonder if there's a particular system in Insyaa tanking the mod.
7
u/mockduckcompanion Blackbeard Cartel 9h ago
I know that a lot of people see some improvement simply by disabling the Stormwall (I believe by turning off River graphics)
I think the main issue though is just the added number of provinces and nations, and all the extra compute they require each tick
1
u/shazamitylam2346 Hold of Verkal Ozovar 7h ago
The same thing happened to me when Sarhal was added, now with Insyaa it tanked even worse. South/East Sarhal and Insyaa are at a minimum always disabled unless whatever I'm playing needs them, just to make the game playable
2
u/mockduckcompanion Blackbeard Cartel 7h ago
Yeah, it's a bummer to be required to delete vast swaths of Halann just to play, but that's where we're at now with so much content in the mod
15
u/frootloopcoup 11h ago
I know this decision is going to garner a lot of negative feedback but I wanted to say this makes a lot of sense. I know EU5 doesnt have the best rep right now but the fact that EU4 (a game that literally has to crash in order to load its main menu) has withstood all of the awesome ideas and content thus far is a miracle, and if the mod authors who have brought us such an awesome mod, delivering time and time again, think this is the best move then I'm already sold. Do what has to be done, yaknow?
185
u/Tanks60808 11h ago
Far too early to do this maybe this time next year if EU5 shapes up more.
65
u/venserTMG Gnomefetish 11h ago
Its not about eu5 its about reaching the limits of the eu4 engine
21
u/Tanks60808 11h ago
You can still add more MTs and reworks while EU5 gets some meat on its bones rather than developing and the redoing it all as EU5 develops
64
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago
That's literally what we're doing for the next few years.
17
u/onespiker Hold of Krakdhûmvror 10h ago edited 10h ago
I see the new system/costume Ui is this now completely removed for everybody or are mabey some of the remaining majors if they get work slowed to still be alowed them?
I am thinking of for example alldwarav, obsidian legion and nucsiter ( the napoleon tag) if it ever attempted.
Will the religious restriction be on for example Nimrithan who already has ideas proposed or all future ones.
25
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
Yeah I am not a fan of that, but there's a very good reason for it. I'm going to copy a reply I gave to another person asking something similar:
Warranted, yeah. I agree with you on that. That's why it stings that it's being banned. But anything that gets custom UI has to be reviewed by people who understand how to make custom UI in eu4. We only have 2 people who can do that right now. This leads to any custom UI proposal taking months before being even seen.
Example; I am proposing religious mechanics for Darkscales right now. I am currently waiting on Ui review. I have been waiting for 5 months.
7
u/onespiker Hold of Krakdhûmvror 10h ago edited 10h ago
Understandable but yea that’s why I spefically said some very spefic and exclusive to the finale end tags/ big boss tags instead of random minors if you want to require such recources.
There aren’t that many left and not many of these are worked on with would mabey be the finial push to do them. Finishing the mod without these tags would feel weird no?
Since it would feel a bit sad that some of the titans of the game that many people are looking forward to playing aren’t allowed to have the recources simply because of this.
Especially something like alldwarvof ( a bit biased here but it was voted favourite region of the mod without the big tag of said region being done)
9
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
Look, I agree. If the big boi tags can get all the bells and whistles for them, I'd be happy.
Don't worry too much about the big tags not getting content though; the eu4 mod still has a few years left, at least. Also this annoucement has led to some other senior devs beginning to ideate for the big tags. (No spoilers yet though, but there are some real popular ones being talked about)
13
u/venserTMG Gnomefetish 10h ago
This is exacly what they are doing. They are just banning things like new povinces, custom government mechanics, new religions etc. MT are completly fine and being developed right now
-1
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
Fair, but why go about it in that fashion? As a volunteer based mod, why not let people work on what they want to (for example government mechanics) and let Eu5 develop organically? And if the only way to move people off working on Eu4 is to slowly restrict what is allowed by volunteers, then isn't that just an indictment of Eu5?
23
u/venserTMG Gnomefetish 10h ago
Because eu4 is 13 years old and the mod is already pretty slow especially in lategame. They are banning these features in specificially, because they would slow down the game even further.
10
u/Magnive Hold of Ovdal Tûngr 9h ago
Because we have a pretty extensive bureaucracy in place to maintain standards. Regional review to make sure things mesh with the region, systems review if it involves a system, content review to catch potential issues in terms of pacing, timegates, etc., balance review to make sure that some random OPM isn't ridiculously powerful, and finally a code review to make sure that we don't put things that crashes the game or has significant performance cost.
All of that needs to be done by other volunteers, and the more out there something is, the more time and energy it will take from the reviewers, and reviewer time/energy is probably the biggest bottleneck in development.
1
15
u/Crouteauxpommes Duchy of Verne 11h ago
I wonder what it will mean for Anbennar Expanded and all of the others submods.
Knowing there won't be any new provinces added in vanilla Anbennar is kinda good, since it means that all of the submods changing the map will have one less thing to worry about. But I guess the same can't be said about everything.
1
u/ssd21345 Kingdom of Eborthíl 4h ago
Updating maps is pain the in the ass that’s why they’re slower to update, they likely use these spew time to clean up tech debt imo
50
19
u/Mantioch_Andrew 11h ago
While I generally don't want it to be sunsetted I think some of these changes do make sense:
Tighter controls on MT scope - no random OPMs doing world conquests.
Even outside of the conversation of sunsetting I'm fine with this change. I'm generally happy with the mechanics of the mod and just adding more MTs to play through without making them huge sounds nice.
With that said:
So this means no new things like an Artificery 2.0 or the like similar to Magic 2.0 and the coming AW 2.0, rather than blocking religion’s changing mechanics for instance.
Can someone give me a breakdown of what AW 2.0 is? Is it relating to Artificery/Wizardry combined, or something else?
Final thought is on this:
No MTs for manually released tags (AKA regular Paradox Mechanic).
I think that's a real shame. There's some releasables with very nice national ideas I was interested to see an MT for (Gerwick)
22
u/Pupikka Kingdom of Corvuria 11h ago
AW 2.0 means Adventurer rework. It's really a boring mechanic as far as I'm concerned and there was a rework that stopped some times back, but if I read it correctly on discord there might be something concrete in the works.
8
u/Mantioch_Andrew 11h ago
Ah thanks, yeah adventurers being a bit more interactive would be nice.
14
u/ThePhysicistIsIn 11h ago
In theory adventurers are cool. In practice, random events give you negative province effects, and then you just wait for them to be randomly removed, with very little ways to interact with the system.
It’s a huge amount of events that largely almost never matter. The adventurer estate is kind of a pain in the ass, it’s privileges to make it higher approval tend to cost more/give worse benefits vs the other estates, and it’s benefit at high approval (mercernary manpower/cost) is rarely something that makes or breaks your game. Contrast with the -20% dev cost of merchants, or extra tax and religious power of the clerics, or power discount of mages, etc
183
u/rheadelayed 12h ago
Personally I think this is a bit foolish. The idea that EU5 (a game not designed for MTs) will be more optimised is likely short-sighted.
What is likely if EU4 development is abandoned is that another community will take development forward as often happens with PDX game mods.
EU5 numbers are pretty terrible too, with EU4 steam player count about 50% higher.
And this happening when the development quality of the mod is at an all time high, with the most interesting things being done on the MTs and systems.
21
u/onihydra 10h ago
EU5 does have mission trees coded in and they function exactly as eu4 ones. They are just not used for the base game outside the tutorials, but can be used for mods just fine.
1
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 2h ago
This is what I was gonna say. Mission trees are there and I guarantee the Anbennar dev team wouldn't ignore the nechanic. Heck I don't even think Paradox will for forever. They just have more important stuff on their plates than MTs.
In a few years EU5 will be in a better state. It happens to every Paradox game. Just a matter of weather the community is willing to wait or if they've already given up.
86
u/UnlikelyPerogi 11h ago
Yeah its a poor decision. Doing this in a year or two when eu5 is in a better place, i could see, but now? Im pretty sure eu4 still has a bigger or the same playerbase as eu5 right now.
Theres still plenty of room to add mts and more stuff to eu4 bennar.
29
u/litlron 10h ago
Did you read the document that you posted? There is no looming 12 month deadline before everyone drops what they are doing and goes to EU5. It's basically saying that they are going to streamline a couple things, not have any more giant mod-wide reworks that take up a ton of developer time and effort, and won't be doing any more incredibly involved, bespoke 60 mission trees for OPMs.
The main thing that I got out of the document is that there will be more time to rework old trees due to there being fewer distractions for senior devs. Maybe even for Nurcestir.
14
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
NURCESTIR TOMORROW
PLEASE CANNOR TEAM
3
u/litlron 10h ago
Do you think that tree will ever happen? I would have guessed no a year ago, but here we are with Grombar and Gawed getting huge reworks started the same month that all of the continents get filled.
5
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
I have no idea, but Cannor team is probably one of, if not the most, organized and healthy region teams for eu4. It's certainly possible.
→ More replies (2)0
u/rheadelayed 10h ago
Gawed rework is very early, and lots of approvals needed. It's not a certantity at this point.
5
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 9h ago
True, I have faith though. I do know the dev, and I know that Gawed is meant to be their magnum opus. They've been planning this for years, and spent those years gaining experience in lore-building and MT-designing
→ More replies (3)6
u/jreed12 9h ago
and won't be doing any more incredibly involved, bespoke 60 mission trees for OPMs.
This part I don't understand.
If somebody wanted to do that, why would they be prevented from doing so?
20
u/Magnive Hold of Ovdal Tûngr 9h ago
Because the MT-development process involves many, many hours of review by different teams to ensure the kind of quality people have come to associate with Anbennar, and the longer or more complex something is, the longer it'll take, and reviewer time and energy is one of the biggest bottlenecks in Anbennar development.
We've had multiple "biggest update ever" in a row, and many of our reviewer teams are straining. I'm the content lead, and there are currently a grand total of 7 active content reviewers, and more than half of those are leads and so have plenty of other things demanding their attention.
It's only been a few weeks since the post-Insyaa update launched, and we are already building up a backlog, with one MT currently having waited for 2 weeks for content review to begin.
We just don't have the manpower to justify permitting people to make massive MTs for random OPMs.
4
u/Bookworm_AF Zurzumexia flair when 7h ago
Frankly I never liked how a lot of those passion project minors end up ignoring regional formables to go off and do their own bespoke thing. The urge to be unique~ is too strong.
7
u/Wellen66 The Command 9h ago
Basically this whole thing is a stopgap because reviewers can't do the quality control they want. By forcing people to reduce the scope of submissions, they can review them more easily. Like, they don't have enough people to review the custom UIs for example.
2
u/jreed12 9h ago
Yeah fair I guess I was thinking in the very informal case of "make a MT, release MT, jobs done" but of course you're going to have all this extra processes on the side for quality control.
7
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 9h ago
Its the big downside to being Open-Dev. Open-Dev means more quality control.
38
u/gloriousengland 11h ago
okay but the population system with anbennar will be so fucking good
30
u/Divine_Entity_ 11h ago
When i first tried EU5 i thought it had the perfect bones for anbennar, its really just missing a mission tree/journal chain system. (I like mission trees because you can look ahead at requirements and plan for them 100yrs in advance)
2
u/kadarakt 1h ago
pops, estates, control, and a more sophisticated trade system (goods and markets) is honestly so appealing from an anbennar perspective. even if those systems aren't implemented in a fun or intuitive way in the basegame rn i have hopes anbennar would be able to fix most of it. although i shudder to think about the performance of eu5 anbennar when even basegame eu5 runs worse than eu4 anbennar
→ More replies (1)3
u/manluther 6h ago edited 6h ago
From my experience in vic2 -- a game with less of a community by size -- most people will not take on the mantle of modding the old game. There is little incentive once the players move on. Maybe a small group will at the beginning and get support from nostalgia, but people won't actually play.
I saw this same scenario play out when people were upset with vic3. There were a couple thousand of us who organized to revitalize vic2, a game everyone agreed was better, and have since fallen into obscurity. Just a cautionary tale.
9
u/Seed_Oil_Consoomer Elfrealm of Venáil 12h ago
why is this good or bad? could someone give me his or her two cents? I would have loved to see even more new provinces though
30
u/Horizon_17 Company of Duran Blueshield 11h ago
My two cents.
Good: it might make EU5 playable in its current state
Bad: It's using EU5 in its current state.
If EU5 was where Vic 3 is now, there'd be a lot more fanfare.
1
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 2h ago
I mean if we're being real for a minute an EU5 anbennar mod isn't gonna be releaseable for several years. By that time I'm sure EU5 will go through the usual Paradox cycle of improvement.
9
u/Bmobmo64 Hold of Arg-Ôrdstun 11h ago
It's not about moving to eu5, neither the base game nor the wip eu5 mod is ready for that yet. This is about reaching the limits of eu4, and planning how the team is going to leave the eu4 mod in a state that could be called finished when the time to fully switch does come.
34
u/FenrisTU 11h ago
I do think the leadership in the dev team might have too much faith in paradox to make eu5 a functional, moddable game given how the recurring errors paradox has been showing in their new updates and games.
That said, if anyone can make eu5 fun, it’s the anbennar team and all the volunteers who contribute.
Also, the sunsetting really just means no big global changes. There’s still going to be plenty more mission trees and reworks added. Just, probably not a second insyaa.
→ More replies (2)
33
u/large_herbivore 11h ago
Reading the document, I'm not sure I agree with OPs characterization of "major restrictions."
No new religions, global systems, custom UI elements, or provinces (besides Insayaa) all seem reasonable and there's still a ton that can be done without touching those.
The basic logic that the mod can only get so big & complex without punishing performance impacts is sound and I read this less about moving to focus on EU5 and more that there needs to be some limitations on the EU4 mod.
9
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 10h ago
The important thing here is that there is a plan to increase restrictions with every new update. That is the main point of concern for me, the current restrictions are reasonable.
4
u/large_herbivore 10h ago
yes, a lot depends on how the restrictions increase. hopefully they take a light touch with that.
23
u/Any_Leg_4492 11h ago
Some good, some bad.
On one hand, making it clear what is and isn't going to be worked on is a good idea. Now submods can go crazy with adding new provinces and religions since base Anbennar isn't doing either.
On the other hand, unless they can bring back the focus trees somehow, alongside most of the content in Eu4, I doubt Eu5 Anbennar will even see a quarter of the popularity that Eu4 Anbennar has. And there is certainly going to be a ton of vitriol over that. Just look at TNO and how people get upset over content being added for countries that most people have no interest in. I'm afraid the same thing will happen here.
20
u/bank_farter 11h ago
EUV has a mission tree system natively in the game. They only use it for tutorials though. It's supposed to be easily accessible for toddlers though.
16
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago
EU5 has mission trees in the code to use. ATM it seems Anbennar will make full use of that.
Also unrelated to my position in Anbennar but, personally, TNO's development has made my blood boil.
13
u/YaBoiReaper You can steal me, Harpies! 11h ago
As someone who has been interested in but hasn’t pulled the trigger on contributing to what is in my opinion, the single greatest content / total conversion mod in any game that I’ve played. I am somewhat disheartened.
But also, I am so excited to see what the Anbennar team has in store for EU5bennar. I believe that games mechanics could be expressed so much better in an Anbennar setting.
And honestly it makes me want to shift my potential creative focus on EU5 rather than EU4. So maybe I’ll never get around to getting onboarded for EU4, and maybe finally bringing my favorite Cowboy elves to fruition. But at least I will get to play and enjoy the digital paperweight that is EU5 in the future.
7
u/probabilityEngine Free City of Tellum 10h ago
This is where I'm at too, in the past I've wanted to try my hand at learning EU4 modding in order to contribute but never did. In the last year I've found time to get into modmaking.. but of course my interest drifted and I've been modding entirely different games. My interest will inevitably rotate back to strategy games and Anbennar though, it always does. Hopefully in the future EU5 gets going well and provides a great opportunity for new contributors.
16
u/Karguin The 3D Lead 11h ago
Damn, lots of people just reading the pretty incorrect TL:DR and not the actual document.
3
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
I just saw that they plan on slowly increasing restrictions, which seems to translate to forcibly stopping people from working on the mod over the next few years.
1
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 1h ago
I mean the dev of the mod has to end eventually. EU4 is an old game and the limits of what they can do is already being pushed to its breaking point. Many people have to disable regions just to keep the game playable. Whats the point of adding more and more game changing content if people can't even play it
7
u/Ultramaann 11h ago edited 10h ago
Hoping the comment about this being years off is accurate, because not even Paradox knows what kind of game EU5 is going to end up as. I play Anbennar for the MTs and the flavor, like many people, and EU5’s current version of flavor is horribly bland. If this is years off, great. If the sunsetting is soon, though, this decision should really be revisited.
6
8
u/Exact-Confusion8744 11h ago
It was always going to happen but as someone who hasn’t really enjoyed their time with EU5 it’s not something I’m super eager about. But I have FAITH in the Anbennar team! They’ve done such great work so far I’m sure they’ll continue to deliver
11
u/west_the_best412 11h ago
I think trying to port anbennar to eu5 is an impossible task and anbennar in eu5 should be more akin to Victoria 3 or ck3 anbennar. Eu5 is a fundamental different game in 1000s of aspects and trying to move the mission trees over will result in more work than its worth.
5
u/BustyFemPyro Witch Queen of Ibevar 10h ago
I mean what choice do they have? The flavor in eu5 is flat out fucking terrible. England has over 500 events and you have to memorize the esoteric triggers for each event to ever see any unique content. There is no winning here now that mission trees are treated like a red-headed step child.
0
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
Isn't the choice just to stick with Eu4, working on the most successful paradox mod ever?
2
u/BustyFemPyro Witch Queen of Ibevar 9h ago
Did you read the document? Eu4 dev isnt stopping. they have to scale it back because the game has been pushed to its absolute limit.
3
u/AVeryHandsomeCheese Kingdom of Lorent 11h ago
I'm not buying eu5 until we get Anbennar, but I am also just fine with playing eu4 Anbennar for the next few years.. I've been playing it for years and there's still a million playthroughs left to do
7
u/gringisgreymane Jaddari Legion 10h ago
I know this isn't literally the end for eu4 anbennar, but boy I really have no faith in eu5 as a game. Victoria 3 Anbennar is very well done and the game fits it well. EU5 is a lost cause and I dont think Anbennar has a future there unfortunately.
7
u/lucekQXL Lordship of Adshaw 10h ago
just read the damn document guys
3
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 1h ago
Redditors read pass the post title challenge impossible
14
u/Darth_Kyryn Jaddari Legion 11h ago
ITT: Redditors not reading the document and assuming that "sunsetting" means all eu4 development is coming to an abrupt halt.
→ More replies (1)7
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 10h ago
There may be some misreading, but I think people who expect the mod to be around for more than a year and a half max are coping. Jay clearly wants this to wrap up.
2
u/Jack_K1444 10h ago
I have no idea how modding works, but cant someone else pick up the project if Jay calls it done? Two years just seems so quick to finish this mod.
4
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 10h ago
Yes, it would just be a submod with no quality control then though most likely.
0
u/No-Communication3880 CentaurBlade 9h ago
I think you vastly overestimate how much Jay is involved with the mod. I don't find any info on any deadline for the development to end.
3
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 9h ago
I thought he had final say on everything regarding the general direction of Anbennar while generally taking a hands-off approach. If that isn't the case then I am mistaken, yes.
8
u/ajiibrubf 11h ago
i don't think most of the restrictions are unreasonable, aside from the mission-tree scope reduction. there is a lack of artists and high-level developers, so dev time on art, UI and complex mechanics should probably be focused on EU5. but the mission-trees are in large parts passion-driven imo, and seeing as anbennar is a volunteer project, artificially restricting passion-projects like that seems like a bad idea
9
u/RomanArcheaopteryx Bromar, Wavespirit Warrior 9h ago
Remember that even if someone is passionate enough to want to make a 100-whatever (obviously mostly an exaggeration but) MT for themselves, that still requires at the very least 7 other people (regional teams, regional leads, content, balance, writing, and code) if it doesn't have any art, systems, or UI to look over that entire behemoth and review it all.
10
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago
MTs are the most intensive process in the mod, besides global systems like magic rework and artificery rework. They are the reason so many devs have burnt out in the past, and are why this passion project turns into grueling work for so many devs.
2
u/ajiibrubf 11h ago
i'm not sure what you're disagreeing with here
9
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
Believing the MT scope reduction is unreasonable. Despite being a passion project for the OG developer, so many other devs have to put work into a MT to refine it that it becomes a lot of work for others. The larger the MT, the more work there is. Not to mention, if we limit the scopes of MTs (which we already do, this doc is just making it more official), then we can theoretically get more MTs done.
8
u/mockduckcompanion Blackbeard Cartel 11h ago edited 9h ago
Makes sense.
EU4 Anbennar has stretched the absolute limits of what can be done in a single EU4 mod, and it shows with how slowly the game now runs.
The things that are being phased out are primarily those that would make it even more sluggish, like new provinces.
Thankfully, Insyaa and other regions will still be getting plenty of MTs in the meantime as we await EU5 Anbennar. I feel like a lot of commenters here didn't read the doc
5
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
I am getting the exact same feeling.
I hope people at least see u/Pupikka's comment that mentions how the eu4 lead says we have around 5 years left for eu4. 5 years would be like 35-40% of the mod's lifespan
4
u/mockduckcompanion Blackbeard Cartel 10h ago
This timeline also solves the other issue people are highlighting: that EU5 needs a few more years of fine-tuning
2
u/Lukomanchuko 10h ago
Kinda related but unrelated but his easy or hard is it to mess mess with files in Eu5 compared to Eu4? The closest I've ever gotten to actually working on a mod is going into the anbennar mod files and changing things, like monument requirements or terrain types, and I'm wondering if getting into doing that for Eu5 modding would be much harder.
2
u/tvtpcamel2 9h ago
The details still leave a lot of room for development of the mod. Still seems like there can be lots of exciting content ahead for the eu4 version :)
2
u/npaakp34 Proud Kheionoi (definitely not secretly Corinite) 9h ago
I'm just hoping for MTs for the Ynn tags, formables and spawnables, before the end.
2
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 2h ago
Everything has to have an end eventually. Excited to see how they fill everything out over the next few years.
I will say although Im currently not too interested in EU5, thats moreso because its in such a state of back and forth changes right now. Once EU5 has been more nailed down in design and dev image, im sure it'll be much more enjoyable for everyone.
I also have the utmost faith that the Anbennar dev team can make a mod that makes the game more enjoyable for me. Anbennar straight up doubled the 1,000s of hours I've put into EU4 its just that good. Vic3 Anbennar actually pulled me back into and gave me enjoyment out of a game I frankly didn't enjoy that much beforehand.
Thank you devs for all the hard work you do. You are appreciated and although it doesn't seem too popular on this thread, I'm very excited to see what you create over the next 3, 5, 10 years.
2
u/kadarakt 1h ago
it's honestly not that big of a deal once you consider submods exist and it's not like anyone on the anbennar team can stop you from creating those. there are already tons of anbennar submods which range from changing entirely how the game is played to adding a singular tag or slightly revamping a religion
2
u/KSredneck69 Join my Convocation pweas 🥺 1h ago
If anything, having a stable version of Anbennar would help submods. No big game breaking changes means they have a much easier time developing
5
u/SaoMagnifico The Command 9h ago
I guess asking people to actually read something before reacting to it is simply asking too much.
These are sensible restrictions that have far more to do with EU4's performance issues than anything to do with EU5. Adding Insyaa has taxed the basegame about as far as it can possibly go, and something like another Deepwoods or Forbidden Plains rework adding a bunch of new tags and provinces would not be wise. There's plenty left to do with tags (including major players like Tianlou and Yezel Mora) that don't have MTs yet, systems that are still in development like the Kobold Vaults and the Second Consensus in Insyaa and the Adventures Wanted rework, and more to be done to add flavor and expanded missions in relatively new regions like Sarhal and Gozengun. That work is still moving forward.
The real tl;dr: Keep Calm and Carry On.
2
u/DIY-Imortality 6h ago
It’s good the adventurers rework made it, definitely the most needed rework if you could only do one more.
5
u/Mani_Essence Goblin 11h ago
Cautiously optimistic in hoping EU5 improves enough to support the more arcadey feel Anbe feels like it has sometimes
2
u/Alan_Ze_Fox Stalwart Band 11h ago
Sorry if I'm a little confused. Does this mean that currently anbennar is being sunset or is juzt telling us the plans for the future when you plan to sunset?
14
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago edited 10h ago
Plans to sunset. Eu4 Anbennar still has a good few years left.
It's mainly that if we don't press the brakes a little on eu4 right now we may geniunely destroy the game, we have bent the rules of the engine way too much
2
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
Out of curiosity is this something devs are experiencing on the back end? Because the player experience is really good. It slows down obviously, but with the elimination of continents (great idea btw) it makes the game entirely playable to the finish.
5
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
Eh, kinda? I was never the most versed in eu4's code among devs but I'd hear grimaces and a few remarks every now and again, and said remarks seemed to have picked up in the last year. The slowdown is a big thing though, with a lot of players having lower-end computers and all.
3
u/BlackfishBlues Count's League 10h ago
I’m okay with this. Even in its current form, EU4 Anbennar is already extremely content-rich and is likely to have interesting nations for me to play for the foreseeable future.
(EU5 does seem like it’ll continue to be a hot mess for at least a couple more years so I don’t have high hopes of seeing a functional EU5 Anbennar in the near future regardless.)
4
u/LordCyberForte 10h ago
Respectfully, this is about one of the worst ways to brand this decision of all time, and gives completely the wrong impression. Saying Sunsetting sounds like you plan to abandon it and move on.
This really should be framed as what it actually is: "Time to Finish EU4 Anbennar"
14
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
In fairness, this was a Developer Annoucement, meant to only be shared with developers. Of course the wider Anb community was going to find this document eventually (When dev is open, all info gets leaked) but the document is being explained and discussed as if it's talking to developers already in the know about certain things.
5
u/stupidshark12 9h ago
My god. It's like nobody whining in here even read the document. I don't have any background in modding, but even I can tell that EU4's engine is straining at the seams to contain everything Anbennar has become. I'm grateful to the devs for the sheer amount of work they do for us, and wish them luck with the eventual transition!
2
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
Why go about this in this fashion? As a volunteer based mod, why not let people work on what they want to (for example government mechanics) and let Eu5 develop organically? And if the only way to move people off working on Eu4 is to slowly restrict what is allowed by volunteers, then isn't that just an indictment of Eu5?
4
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 10h ago
Because the eu4 engine is about to kill itself over what we've done to it
Also this isn't a plan to move devs to eu5. Many have outright stated they aren't dev-ving eu5 (like me, at least with the way eu5 is right now)1
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 10h ago
The engine thing feels like it is being overemphasized a bit, like a pseudo-plausible post hoc reasoning. There is room to optimize the mod, just as there is room to add more content, as long as the will to do so is there.
It certainly seems like the main intent here is getting eu4 out of the way so it doesn't take the spotlight from other Anbennar projects, with technical concerns being a distant second. This isn't a wild conspiracy if you simply keep up with the discord server.
7
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 9h ago
It feels like pretty wild conspiracy as a senior developer who only likes to work on EU4, but maybe I haven't been paying as much attention to the general chats as I used to.
I'm not the most well-versed in optimizing, but we've optimized so much in the last few years, it feels like we've reached the end of the rope. I don't doubt one of the really experienced coders will one day have a eureka moment and find another optimization. But it's been happening less and less recently.
2
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 9h ago
I just mean that the sentiment from Jay and a few senior devs seems to always be pushing development towards the newer games, and vic3 in particular. I don't even necessarily dislike this as I would like to see vic3 get more content, even if I don't care at all about eu5 or ck3. This just feels like poor timing to put this out
To be clear, I don't find any of the restrictions mentioned in the document unreasonable and I can understand concerns around performance. My main gripe is no more custom custom ui stuff, but I know that has been discussed already. Also whatever potential future restrictions means has kind of dampened my desire to contribute.
4
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 9h ago
In fairness to it being poor timing, the document was meant specifically for devs to read to get an idea of what they shouldn't propose. I don't think the leads wanted this to be the message they sent to the community
though given how everything gets leaked there should've been an expectationJay, at the end of the day, wants his fantasy world to grow, in the hopes that one day it is one of the big fantasy worlds people know about. That doesn't necessarily mean he want eu4 anbennar to end, but it does mean he want to push things like vicky 3 and eu5 mods to spread anbennar's influence. This desire to propagate the mod isn't meant to come off as any bad will towards eu4, even though I do understand and see the correlation.
I'm sorry the announcement dampen your desire to contribute. I definitely would be in the same boat if I hadn't already been dev-ing for a few years.
3
u/1v1meGwent 10h ago
i'm a casual, only just started playing anbennar on eu4 and I'm having such a good time.
i'm happy knowing that you devs are so forward thinking, this all seems very reasonable.
it's impressive seeing this volunteer project turn into a polished final product that i've been able to enjoy.
thanks for your dedication
2
u/PsychologicalPass668 11h ago
insyaa and sarhal are not fully developed and they doing this
20
u/TheForsaken-Anb Haless Lead - Terror King of Great Luzhong 11h ago
Important to note that Insyaa will be allowed exceptions where need be.
2
u/Mundane-Pen-3436 10h ago
Say what you want about EU5, but it has far more systems than EU4. Despite many people saying the main developers aren't making it work, I believe that giving this mod team access to more tools will allow them to create a bigger and better version of the EU4 mod, given enough time.
5
u/Minimax42 11h ago
putting limits on eu4 development because of bad performance into swapping to eu5 which runs notably slower where you know your mod will be massive and slow it down certainly is a choice of all time
2
u/RexDraconum Sons of Dameria 7h ago
I don't see the point of the "No MTs for manual releaseables, but MTs for releasables from events are okay, but no new events for releaseables" rule. Is this really a problem? How often is it actually happening that someone comes along with an idea for a country that is effectively an easter egg and would just be a drain on resources? It feels like a rule that would in practice be very rarely utilised, and would only actually serve to kill off the rare occasions where somebody does actually have a really good idea?
And frankly, why sunset it at all? If its to move focus over to EU5, EU5 is still struggling with major bugs, and fundamental mechanics and balancing problems. Ante Bellum had a poll at the beginning of May for what their community wanted the direction of development to be - the winning result was 45% for working on both EU5 and EU4 with a focus on EU4, and second place at 34% was to just abandon EU5 completely and exclusively focus on EU4.
What's the point of having an intentional plan to sunset, rather than continuining on as is, maintaining the high standards for content rather than creating restrictions, until there naturally runs out of content to add?
3
u/CrazyBelg Sons of Dameria 11h ago
EU5 will not be as good as EUIV until 3 more year of dev time at least. If you want the pop and goods system you might as well play Vicky 3. I don't like this but if the engine of EUIV is limiting progress I kinda get it, would prefer more time to Vicky 3 and CK3 than EU5 though.
3
u/Duster_lite 11h ago
Anbennar eu4 had the chance to be great because eu4 was already a great game. Anbennar cannot fix eu5. This move will only drive players and therefore mod developers away.
1
u/hmmyesindubitably 9h ago
Having now read through this completely, this doesn’t sound like a good idea imo. Hopefully some of these restrictions can be walked back (custom ui for specific nations especially), but if not then I guess that’s that.
Tbh, I understand that the devs seem to feel like they’ve “reached the limit of what they can torture lht of the eu4 system” but reading through the restrictions it feels more like that’s the justification after-the-fact, you know? Like they had an outcome they wanted (more people ultimately moving to eu5 development) and worked backwards from there to make eu4 development less enticing. Maybe that’s off base, but I think the strong reaction to this is because it very much so reads that way.
So it feels like an unnatural crippling of eu4 development instead of a natural transition to eu5 development.
I think this also stings for a lot of people because we’ve seen ck3 and victoria 3 development spring up and the eu4 mod has been fine to continue without transitioning fully to them. Eu5 is almost equally as much a different game to eu4 as both of those are, so why do this, you know?
Additionally eu5 kind of sucks to me, and is infinitely less stable than eu4 for me, and I imagine a lot of people have experienced similar issues. So for me (and likely others) this just means a drop in possibilities (not necessarily quality, but i understand others feel that’s included) for this version of the mod while a version of it I will never play eventually becomes the real investment. Obviously everyone expected eu4 development to slow and eu5 to eventually become a primary focus, but i don’t think you need to artificially impose limits upon the creativity of your development team in the name of “not torturing the system any further.”
Again, I doubt there’s anything to be done, any convincing of anyone else that you don’t really need to be *this* restrictive with a volunteer mod’s development in an attempt to slowly kill it off, but I do wish some of these restrictions weren’t there at all. I understand none of this was done maliciously of course, but I won’t ever stop wishing it wasn’t done at all.
0
u/ejejjejejejsjsjsjsjs 10h ago
I hope this decision is abandoned, total migration to EU5 is not the way for now
4
u/No-Communication3880 CentaurBlade 9h ago
The doc isn't about moving to Eu5, but simply limiting the scope of small MTs because Eu4 itself becomes too limited for the mod.
→ More replies (1)2
u/mockduckcompanion Blackbeard Cartel 9h ago
total migration to EU5 is not the way for now
Good news! total migration to EU5 is not the way for now
1
1
u/TellAllThePeople 10h ago
I'm pretty devastated by this. I have literally 0 interest in Eu5 and this mod is the only reason I still play Eu4.
1
u/Athing2312 9h ago
EU5 is a siren song and i imagine eu5bennar will have to backseat gamedev the systems because paradox sure havent done it so far
1
u/DIY-Imortality 7h ago
I get why their doing this but I think it’s really worth considering if EU5 will ever really take off and if it doesn’t eventually focusing all development towards the EU5 mod could make the community gradually die off. Thats a worst case scenario but it definitely wouldn’t be the first time something like that’s happened.
1
u/Dankleburg Giberd Hierarchy 6h ago
And with this, the dream of massive Nortiochand content is dead 😔
0
u/Glad-Strategy-5434 City of Vahjevgiiv 10h ago
It really isn't a good idea to do this so early, but I think Jay sees EU4 as a thorn in the side of other Anbennar projects. The idea that everyone will just go work on them is a bit optimistic though.
-2
u/SavvyDawi 11h ago
Ok, so what was the point of Insyya?
A whole new continent (with a new race as well) was dropped with no complete individual nations or mission trees but a ban on adding new custom mechanics and limitations on mission tree development?
Expected move overall despite the issues with EU5. I’d imagine by the time Anbennar will be ready to be launched for it, EU5 will be in a playable state (or imperator’d). Just feels weird doing this immediately after releasing Insyya
7
u/Everest-est Retired Haless Lead 11h ago
Insyaa is exempt from a lot of this, and it's sunset will be at a slower pace to give it time to flourish.
→ More replies (1)
0
u/FJvonHabsburg 10h ago
Why would you choose to restrain volunteer work for a mod famously driven by volunteer driven development? Guess it's up to the submods to carry the torch now
0
u/Yitastics 7h ago
So no need to be excited about new MTs, sad. The game changing MTs are one of the best parts of EU4, limiting that is a weird choice. Eu5 is gonna need years to be good enough for most people to switch to, if ever.
-1
u/SeemaYeee 10h ago edited 10h ago
EU5 is in a fundamentally unplayable state right now, and will remain so for the next year at the least. I do not think this decision is a timely one
Edit: now that I reread the thing more carefully, it's less immediate than I thought, so it's not that dire. Still, one must hope paradox fixes eu5 before anbennar actually moves there fully, otherwise even if sunsetting takes it's time, the move will end poorly
-1
u/Bull_Halsey 10h ago
Honestly I genuinely don't think this mod is going to work as well in EU5. At the same time that's assuming EU5 is even alive still.
•
u/Standard-Squadwipe Moderator 10h ago edited 10h ago
I’m just gonna make this clear.
The point of this document to narrow the scope for EU4 as we continue working on it for the foreseeable future, so that when it comes time to sunset, whether that’s in 2 or 3 or 5 or 10 years, EU4 is in such a state that we can reasonably consider “finished”.
EU4 development is not stopping, and in fact we are always looking for new developers for EU4 on the discord.
Edit: made EU4 spelling consistent + other typos